LegendofJoe
Member
I blame them and the media the most for this.
Hillary was a bad candidate as well. I'm not excusing her role in this, but she alone is not the reason why this happened.
Clinton campaign didn't do tracking polls for the last month, ignored Michigan issues
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I blame them and the media the most for this.
Hillary was a bad candidate as well. I'm not excusing her role in this, but she alone is not the reason why this happened.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You're welcome. I'm not sure why it wasn't discussed more. I think yesterday was still too early for people to start analyzing the actual numbers with a clear head.
Can't remember the timing, but wasn't that when she had walking pneumonia?
Karsticles
Member
Why don't we blame the people who didn't vote instead of Clinton not campaigning hard enough? Can't people figure this stuff out on their own?
mugurumakensei
Member
And you know what they say about assumptions.
They make an ass out of you and me, US.
entremet
Member
There's a difference between being self assured of a victory and shooting down any kind of constructive criticism toward your candidate.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
She was in Scranton and made other stops along the I80 corridor, didn't she?
Ryzaki009
Member
Oh I believed that too (and in a rational world that would've been the response) but she really should know better. At least have done polling and visited WI. I mean even with thinking her game is locked It doesn't hurt to make sure she makes them feel as though she cares and is looking out for them. I mean she's worked in politics this long. She should know people don't always vote in their best self interests without pushing.
Obviously not.
Ya, even Trump's team was preparing for a loss. The smugness is really unjustified here, and deeply unneeded.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
Their only shot was through the rust belt. The one thing I do not blame the Clinton camp on is focusing on NC and FL since that would have made it impossible for Trump. The problem of course comes that they were A LOT closer in Michigan and Wisconsin and just ignored them completely thinking it was a sure thing.
I think what sucks the most out of this is that if her message was more geared towards winning Michigan and Wisconsin it no doubt would've helped in Penn/NC/FL as well. What a collapse.
It seems more and more like Hillary deserved to lose this election considering how over confident she was. Ignoring Michigan for a month and never stepping foot in Wisconsin post-primaries after she lost the state in the primaries? Absolutely baffling. We should have went with Bernie or talked Biden into running.
You really think Trump is going to run for a second term, and get re-elected if he does? I think it's up in the air that he even finishes the first term
You really think Trump is going to run for a second term, and get re-elected if he does? I think it's up in the air that he even finishes the first term
Sure but what was she doing there?
Having private meetings with donors or holding rallies with people?
I have to agree with this. Even as a liberal I found it hard getting across to Sanders supporters we need an official ground game in the South. Even after Sanders loss I noticed Hillary fans by and large wrote off the midwest in addition to the south. Telling people they are racist for having financial problems is writing them off.
They didn't vote because they didn't like either candidate. That's on Trump and Clinton. Votes have to be earned and neither of them could lure that 45% to the polling booths.
I'm more concerned that he's "fine" for four years, hates the job, and then Pence gets elected (because people were fine with Trump). Pence scares me even more than Trump.
Yep. She gave no attention at all to them.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
its all problems at the same time. the success of a campaign depends on all factors occurring, usually not a singular thing.
Trump's campaign was a disaster, but not a big enough disaster to make him lose.
tkscz
Member
Everyone else in your campaign seems to disagree on the wonderful part. It sounds like a she developed hubris while sitting in a echo chamber (unless this was done purposely). How do you skip midwestern states? Now that I think about it, she rarely came here to Cincinnati when this is usually a Democratic main stop (Bill and Obama stopped here multiple times). So what states did she focus on?
This is a big one and why states that are easily flipped went red this time around. She ignored and insulted rural and rustic areas instead of trying to convince them that Trump was the wrong way to go. You don't insult potential voters.
People are mostly stupid. Election night should have made that clear.
UnemployedVillain
Member
So, I ask my question again of who is the one ultimately responsible for shooting down those suggestions? All of these articles keep saying it was her campaign manager, which makes me wonder how much she deferred to her opinion over asserting her own, when making campaign decisions. And what instilled her with so much confidence in her manager
mugurumakensei
Member
I think it depends on how good or bad he turns out to be in the country along with who runs.
One thing is for sure, we need the current pro-Hillary DNC out. They went along with her and her campaigns hubris. We need Bernie, Biden, Obama, and Warren types leading the strategy for DNC. People who have done well at outreach with working-class people.
LegendofJoe
Member
I completely forgot about this, Bernie winning MI was a shocker. Her data team should have caught on to polling being off there.
Plenty of it prior to Tuesday. Now we must take the high road?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
OFA and there top crew like Brad A Schenck largely were just that. They were part of OFA. These people were never properly integrated or given top positions in the DNC proper.
Hillary's campaign was largely run by a totally different crew than Obama's two campaigns. A lot of that IMO having largely to do with the divisive 2008 primary. Hillary and Obama might have patched things up, but that didn't mean the organizations as a whole did.
Agreed. Let's see if he even makes it a year.
That whole post was sarcasm, reflecting that for Hillary to be a good candidate and to have lost, then it isalso be true that Trump is an even better candidate because he won.
Dark Cloud
Member
I can't stand her.
Hillary is not a common man type of person. She's not the person who will get her hands dirty or go out and help a small community. She thinks she's better than that and has an inflated ego. Now she screwed this country and planet.
Hillary is not a common man type of person. She's not the person who will get her hands dirty or go out and help a small community. She thinks she's better than that and has an inflated ego. Now she screwed this country and planet.
What are tracking polls? Is there any reason to think they'd have shown something that normal and non-campaign polls didn't?
The bigger sadness here is just the hubris of not listening to people on the ground, but at the same time I'm sure they get constant "We need more people" messages from ground games and have just learned they have to prioritize (based on polls, which were wrong).
The bigger sadness here is just the hubris of not listening to people on the ground, but at the same time I'm sure they get constant "We need more people" messages from ground games and have just learned they have to prioritize (based on polls, which were wrong).
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
DNC 2020 to do list
1.Get a candidate that's not a Chrisma Vacuum
2. Make sure that candidate has a good team behind them.
1.Get a candidate that's not a Chrisma Vacuum
2. Make sure that candidate has a good team behind them.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think he's mocking the people that would constantly bring up that Hillary only lost to Obama because he was a once-in-a-lifetime candidate.
The Shadow
Member
There was an article posted on the forum earlier this morning that talked about how she ignored Bill's advice to do campaigning at Notre Dame. Sounds like it was top down all the way.
Why would we blame people who didn't vote? People need a reason to vote. Clinton didn't offer a compelling reason to vote for her. It's that exact entitled attitude that cost her the election.
Well, that's not true. But they are mostly apathetic toward politicians.
Maintenance
Member
Goddamnit even Biden knew this shit.
Ah, sorry for missing the sarcasm
wesleyshark
Banned
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Why do Democrats suck so much at the game?
All the defenders of Hillary's campaign need to just shut it.
IT. WAS. NOT. WELL. RUN.
It doesn't matter if Trump's was worse or if she beat Bernie by a wide margin or whatever false dichotomy you want to conjure up. This was quite possibly the most important election AND the easiest presidential election for the democrats to win in our lifetime and she fucked it up. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened. How this doesn't make you absolutely livid is beyond me.
Anger and incredulity aren't going to help us out of this gigantic shithole we've fallen into but handwaving away the person who is directly responsible for landing us here teaches us nothing. There is no reason left to defend Hillary's campaign. She's done a lot of good as a politician but this is the biggest blunder of her life that is going to have ramifications on the entire goddamn planet, possibly forever. Climate change is going to fuck the world and it just got a brand new bright orange strap on dildo to ram into our collective asses.
IT. WAS. NOT. WELL. RUN.
It doesn't matter if Trump's was worse or if she beat Bernie by a wide margin or whatever false dichotomy you want to conjure up. This was quite possibly the most important election AND the easiest presidential election for the democrats to win in our lifetime and she fucked it up. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened. How this doesn't make you absolutely livid is beyond me.
Anger and incredulity aren't going to help us out of this gigantic shithole we've fallen into but handwaving away the person who is directly responsible for landing us here teaches us nothing. There is no reason left to defend Hillary's campaign. She's done a lot of good as a politician but this is the biggest blunder of her life that is going to have ramifications on the entire goddamn planet, possibly forever. Climate change is going to fuck the world and it just got a brand new bright orange strap on dildo to ram into our collective asses.
Yup. When you lose, you have to learn and rebuild.
Republicans are more unified, and more consistent. Swing-state democrats treated this like they do a mid-term. There's a lot of blame to place, including on us. I could have been out canvassing nearby swing states.
Smokey_Run
Member
Could've fooled me. I live there and I only noticed her being in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia on the local news. Kaine came out to Penn State a couple weeks back and Senator Casey was there another time. However, Trump and Pence were visiting places like Johnstown and Altoona.
UnemployedVillain
Member
No one's shooting down criticism, I'm just calling out the "It was obvious" posts that were conspicuously missing from these same posters beforehand. Now I'm sure part of the reason for those posts not being made back then was because it was assumed her campaign had these things under control, but some of them are pretending that this was ever portrayed as anything, but a lopsided win. Almost everyone aside from a few people were significantly off in their predictions
entremet
Member
Terrible leadership since Republicans took control of both Houses in Bill's first term.
They are the minority in Governorships, State Houses, The House, The Senate. The lost the Presidency to an inexperienced buffoon and now will have more setbacks with SCOTUS.
And this is after detailed polls (LOL, right) agree with the Democrat platform in a majority of categories.
cloud_sleep
Member
This will all be straightened out when Chelsea runs.
No, the anger is about the fact that a billion dollar campaign should know more than those three other categories. We users assumed they focused on states like Georgia because the campaign was sure they had the others, when they obviously weren't.
And by sure I don't mean looking at each other saying "they've voted for us before, right"?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lolWho keeps making these ridiculous graphs?
Here, I made one that makes things look even worse:
Jesus christ, Obama got 10 times as many votes as hillary! Wtf happened?
Unknown reasons? Okay, what the fuck?
There's no question that her campaign screwed many things up but are you seriously suggesting that her entire political career was worthless and she didn't do any real work and only got as far as she did through nepotism? Like, seriously?
Apparently not. You gotta resort to mindless populism to get elected. Maybe it wasn't so much hubris, but overconfidence + overestimating the intelligence of people. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Because people don't like voting for shit. Want more people to vote? Give them a reason to vote. Or, you know, scold the voters while Trump ascends to the Presidency.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Yeah, it was quoted on the last page, but it still vaguely just said her campaign. I honestly don't know how these things are run. I could very much see Trump being in charge of his campaign since we have tons of articles showing how he flat out ignored their advisement and did his own thing, but was it the same case here?
This is false. McCain and Romney outperformed Trump in the vote count.
I doubt Romney would have won because he could not have taken the mantle of being an anti-trade populist for Rust Belt workers, but Trump's poor showing compared to past Republicans indicates he was not riding a wave.
Terrible arrogance between the campaign and supporters and incredible incompetence between the candidate choice and strategy.
Heck of a job to do the next 2-4 years.
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