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[Killjoy-NL]

He didn't say that at all.

Different demographics exist with markets that are similar.

For example, Mobile gamers and console gamers don't have the same outlook on what they desire from a product. Handheld and Consoles are different as well. PC gamers and Console gamer have different needs also.

This doesn't have to be a point of contention, they all (Nintendo, Playstation and Steam) are serving their desired markets well enough.

Thank you.

There will always be some overlap, i.e. PC + PS5, PC + Switch, PS5 + Switch and PC + PS5 + Switch. That's a given.

But each platform demographic in general is quite different.
The only two platform demographics that are largely the same are those of PS and Xbox.
It is this demographic where PS is extremely dominant. So much so, that we see Xbox conceding and being forced towards 3rd party publishing, while Nintendo has been shifting focus to a different demographic, where they've been extremely successful.

 

[Kerotan]

Nintendo pivoted and is doing fantastic as a result. They always bounce back and no longer have to take Sony head on.

Microsoft, on the other hand, buried themselves. PlayStation simply existed, which helped further that demise. And that sounds awfully familiar. At the same time, they [Microsoft] are pivoting too and that's why we'll continue to see their games on competing platforms.

Exactly they found their place as a secondary competitor. Happy for both of them.

 

[ByWatterson]

I mean in terms of the dedicated console space, they're 5 for 5 (you can argue Wii, but that's different and we all know it).

 

[KU_]

Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.

They no longer get cod, ac, battlefield, and any of the big third party games Sony gets 30% royalties from. Re4, Star Wars, Alan wake, avatar, cod, and even hogwarts which came out on ps5, pc and xs and sold a billion worth of copies before it was hastily ported to switch for a fraction of the sales.

Nintendo has effectively conceded the console space but i would give the credit to both ms and Sony for that. Not just Sony.

Plus Sony has laid off a lot more employees then Nintendo has recently too, so they have them beat there as well.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

It can.

 

[Fake]

Whose Nintendo's core audience again?

Eurogamer/IGN/Kotaku: 'Lets talk about the 3%'

 

[Pelta88]

It seems the number crunchers at CNBC’s website have stumbled upon the gaming algorithm.

 

[Woopah]

I'm talking about Nintendo's top-sellers so why are bringing up Fire Emblem? Look at the 10 best-selling Nintendo 1st-party on Switch vs the top Sony's top 10 on PS4. Sony gets utterly embarrassed.

Nintendo's biggest games sell more than nearly anyone else. There's nothing embarrassing about games not selling as well as Nintendo's ones.

Nintendo shifted course after the Gamecube. That was the last time Sony beat Nintendo because it was the last time Nintendo attempted to compete. Wii, 3DS, Wii U, Switch; Nintendo effectively broke away into their market. They're simply untouchable.

Sony, of course, deserves its place: it stepped into the home console space and proceeded to wreck everyone's shit with top tier hardware and games. They took Nintendo off the throne on their first try, kicked Sega's teeth in like they owed them money, and apart from Xbox 360, haven't ever really been challenged.

Microsoft came in hungry but they're just their own worst enemy. The OG Xbox was solid, and they nearly got there with the Xbox 360. But, the mask slipped with the Xbone and it basically killed them. They've simply never recovered. The XSX looked liked it was a proper course correction, but their house just wasn't in order. So, they started buying other people's houses. I have no idea what their ambitions are these days.

Wii competed with the PS3 and sold more.
WII U competed with the PS4 and sold less.

Switch was competing with the PS4, but is now compering with the PS5.

I don't think think they beat Nintendo . Nintendo hasn't axed any games nor have they laid off any of their employees while seemingly every other game conpany out there has had significant layoffs. Switch was a massive success on the same level as the PS4.

Microsoft is done but i think that has more to do with their own incompetence. They had a good strategy with the 360 and had they just stuck to it Sony would be the ones leaving the industry and MS would've had the whole console market to themselves.

I'm sure Nintendo has cancelled games and projects too, we just dont get to hear about them (Retro almost certainly has had a game cancelled).

The vast majority of gamers buys only 1 system and Nintendo's installbase largely exists of casual gamers and kids.
Nintendo's success with Switch lies in the handheld-demographic (Wii with the housemoms and grannies), not the traditional console-gaming demographic.

Of people pay attention to what Sony, Ryan and Layden have said, is that they are going to reach beyond the PlayStation installbase and get those gamers into the PlayStation eco-system and on PS consoles.

They don't even have to leave the PC platform, they just have to buy a PS5 in addition.

Edit:

People like @Oof85 and @NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt can laugh all they want, but we've seen what happened to WiiU.

The handheld demographic and expanded audience demographics are certainly important to Switch, but so are the traditional console gaming demographic that play Zelda, Mario, Smash Bros. etc.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

"Usage by household" not "Purchase per household". Its a survey based on whose actually playing the device.

Usually the parents register and make accounts for the children.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I'm talking about Nintendo's top-sellers so why are bringing up Fire Emblem? Look at the 10 best-selling Nintendo 1st-party on Switch vs the top Sony's top 10 on PS4. Sony gets utterly embarrassed.

Sony isn't embarrassed at all (or at least they shouldn't be). Hardly anything beats those 30+ year-old franchises and their top stuff sells upwards of 15-20+ million anyway. That's not only a massively good result, but plenty to make a case. If anything, if Sony's franchises ever hit Nintendo's best levels, it would be "embarrassing" to Nintendo.

 

[Woopah]

Usually the parents register and make accounts for the children.

Even if that were true, it would be irrelevant since that graph is based on a survey question, not on Nintendo account data.

 

[ZehDon]

...Wii competed with the PS3 and sold more.

No, the Wii used re-packaged GameCube hardware, excluding it from virtually every major third party from the PS360 era. Instead, Nintendo used its motion controls to target the casual market that Sony and Microsoft ignored - until Nintendo demonstrated enormous profits in that market. Then, Sony released the Move and Microsoft released the Kinect in attempt to shift and compete with the Wii.

WII U competed with the PS4 and sold less...

No, the Wii U was effectively a generation behind the PS4 and Xbone and again was excluded from virtually every major third party. Instead, Nintendo had hoped to used the tablet controller to find success in the casual market same way as the Wii had with its motion controls, but Nintendo's idea of the "hybrid console" didn't really work in the Wii U's form factor - and the confusing naming didn't help. Sony and Microsoft didn't compete in that arena, both having abandoned the Move and Kinect respectively. Nintendo then revisited its concept with the dramatically improved Switch, effectively a handheld, which neither Nintendo nor Microsoft competed with.

 

[Dorfdad]

I don't think think they beat Nintendo . Nintendo hasn't axed any games nor have they laid off any of their employees while seemingly every other game conpany out there has had significant layoffs. Switch was a massive success on the same level as the PS4.

Microsoft is done but i think that has more to do with their own incompetence. They had a good strategy with the 360 and had they just stuck to it Sony would be the ones leaving the industry and MS would've had the whole console market to themselves.

Crazy talk. Japan china korea none of them buy Microsoft consoles. They are Sony land. Microsoft would be closer but for some reason they can’t seem to understand outside the USA FPS shooters are now t their bread and butter. Soccer / RPG / and a few other genres (racing) are the main genres

 

[Deerock71]

Nintendo isn't dead, but can't compete with Playstation as a traditional console.

They needed the handheld demographic as leverage to reach the success it has now.

The reverse is true for Sony. They tried to branch out into handheld (as well as console), and Nintendo batted that down when corporate greed overtook Sony with the Vita.

 

[Woopah]

No, the Wii used re-packaged GameCube hardware, excluding it from virtually every major third party from the PS360 era. Instead, Nintendo used its motion controls to target the casual market that Sony and Microsoft ignored - until Nintendo demonstrated enormous profits in that market. Then, Sony released the Move and Microsoft released the Kinect in attempt to shift and compete with the Wii.

No, the Wii U was effectively a generation behind the PS4 and Xbone and again was excluded from virtually every major third party. Instead, Nintendo had hoped to used the tablet controller to find success in the casual market same way as the Wii had with its motion controls, but Nintendo's idea of the "hybrid console" didn't really work in the Wii U's form factor - and the confusing naming didn't help. Sony and Microsoft didn't compete in that arena, both having abandoned the Move and Kinect respectively. Nintendo then revisited its concept with the dramatically improved Switch, effectively a handheld, which neither Nintendo nor Microsoft competed with.

None of that means they didn't compete. The DS competed with the PSP, even though it had a vastly different library and power.

Likewise the power/library differences between the GameBoy and Game Gear doesn't mean they weren't competitors.

The GameCube was left out of many third party games that the PS2 got. But the GameCube was still a competitor to the PS2.

Its the difference between the nature of competition, and the strength of competition. Nintendo wanted to use the Wii U to win back some of the core audience from Microsoft and Sony. They just failed miserably at that.

 

[Deerock71]

I notice a not-too-subtle title change for this thread, the kind that might rankle the feathers of Sony's PS2 Praetorian guard. Does the mountaintop feel the tectonic plates shifting a little? It's just a tremor, right?*

*Nintendo has STILL never cut the price on the Switch, save to accomodate for Yen/Euro fluctuations.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Even if that were true, it would be irrelevant since that graph is based on a survey question, not on Nintendo account data.

Children aren't participating in such surveys like adults.
Heck many Children aren't even allowed online to surf/have limited online time and are to young to read/understand.

 

[Woopah]

Children aren't participating in such surveys like adults.
Heck many Children aren't even allowed online to surf/have limited online time and are to young to read/understand.

Right, it is the parents who complete the survey. And those parents would put the gender/age of the child, if the child was the person in household with the most interest in the Switch

The graph is saying that, for 10% of households, the person most interested in the Switch was 15 or under. Not that 10% of people who filled in the survey were 15 or under.

 

[fallingdove]

I meant, interest for a single person to own more than one switch since all first party library is in a single platform instead of two, which is why I say that comparing switch with DS + Wii makes no sense, specially with switch alone makes more money for Nintendo than both of them did

I'm sure there is but it's not as common as Wii + DS. Hence the consolidation. You don't need both the Wii and the DS cause the switch is both. This is also exactly why Nintendo isn't as successful with the Switch as they were with the Wii + DS — a period of time that saw double the Switch’s console sales with console specific libraries/attach rates.

 

[mckmas8808]

So, by 2025 they expect to put 50% of their investment into new franchises.

Sounds like they're about to step up their game with 1st party output.

Should ease the minds of some of the critics who whine about Sony only focusing on remasters.

Yeah this Das the plan starting 2 or 3 years ago. Which is why it's horrible that people are expecting them to go day and date on PC with their SP games.

 

[Kokoloko85]

While I am a fan of Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, I can't stand PC gaming. I guess we all have to have something to dislike.

I use PC for mostly older games. Ill use a Steamdeck 2 for games I cant get elsewhere.
Im not a big fan either. The fanbase is also weird and super defensive

 

[yurinka]

Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:55 An early hit
6:08 Rough patch
8:15 Content is king
12:05 Looking ahead

The last data we have (December) shows that PS has the biggest active userbase it ever had. In their most recent fiscal report, they also show many other records in all areas. They are also quickly growing in multiple new areas like GaaS, PC, movies or mobile, at the same time they continue increase their console market share.

So yes, they will continue dominating the market.

Nah man. The first thing Sony fans (myself included) point to above all else when proclaiming victory in the console war is console sales. Nintendo Switch hasn't been defeated by anything in that regard. Damn sure can't turn this into a teraflops fight when it suits us.

Nintendo moved away from the home console market last generation. MS is bending the knee.

In the next gen Switch 2 will have to compete against the PC handhelds from different brands. I'd bet including MS and Sony ones.

 

[ZehDon]

None of that means they didn't compete...

It quite literally does. Targeting and excluding segments of a given market allows companies within the same industry to not compete with one another. Your statement is akin to saying the hand-made Ferrari line directly competes with the mass-produced Tata Nano because they're both cars being sold. They, by every metric and admission, don't.

After the GameCube, Nintendo adopted a Blue Ocean strategy, in contrast to Sony and Microsoft's continuing Red Ocean strategy. They quite literally moved to stop competing because the hardware arms race wasn't yielding appropriate ROI, and given that Nintendo today has zero debt and makes record money on both its hardware and software, it's hard to argue with the results.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Right, it is the parents who complete the survey. And those parents would put the gender/age of the child, if the child was the person in household with the most interest in the Switch

The graph is saying that, for 10% of households, the person most interested in the Switch was 15 or under. Not that 10% of people who filled in the survey were 15 or under.

I don't think so or see a reason every parent would put a minor child's info and not there own.

I wouldn't and haven't.
It's always been my accounts.
Heck my adult son for example still uses the PSN I made him with my info.

That graph is bs.
Any honest person knows mainly children play Nintendo devices.

 

[OuterLimits]

Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.

They no longer get cod, ac, battlefield, and any of the big third party games Sony gets 30% royalties from. Re4, Star Wars, Alan wake, avatar, cod, and even hogwarts which came out on ps5, pc and xs and sold a billion worth of copies before it was hastily ported to switch for a fraction of the sales.

Nintendo has effectively conceded the console space but i would give the credit to both ms and Sony for that. Not just Sony.

This is amusing since both Sony and MS wish their first party output could sell like Nintendo does. Nintendo has numerous franchises that manage to sell insane amount for years often at full price.

Nintendo has also managed to sell 125 million Switch. A system with extremely outdated hardware without a price drop the entire generation yet people still buy the thing at full price. The current king PS2 was selling for peanuts in its final years.

3rd party output on Switch has been pretty healthy the entire generation. I imagine it will continue with their next console. Plus MS signed that 10 year deal to put COD on Nintendo systems. It will be on Switch 2.

 

[Kataploom]

I highly doubt the Switch demographic is interested in PC gaming.

Sure, there will alway be some overlap, but it's more probably that it's going to be PC+PS5.

Oh man, someone didn't know Nintendo + PC is like a cliché combo lmao

 

[Kataploom]

The vast majority of gamers buys only 1 system and console's installbase largely exists of casual gamers and kids.

FTFY lol

 

[Killjoy-NL]

FTFY lol

Might as well incl PC as well then.

 

[Woopah]

I don't think so or see a reason every parent would put a minor child's info and not there own.

I wouldn't and haven't.
It's always been my accounts.
Heck my adult son for example still uses the PSN I made him with my info.

That graph is bs.
Any honest person knows mainly children play Nintendo devices.

The reason they would answer with a minor's info, would be if their child has more interest in a Switch than they did.

The age info they used when making the account doesn't matter, since that's not the info the graph is made from.

Let's say Sony sent you a survey, and asked for the age and gender of the person in your household with the most interest in a PS5. Why would you put your own age, if your son was the person most interested in a PS5?

 

[Kataploom]

Might as well incl PC as well then.

Sure, I got some friends that play LoL sand Fortnite on an average laptop, that's as casual as PC gets these days

 

[Kataploom]

Exactly they found their place as a secondary competitor. Happy for both of them.

Some of you really believe there's no people with switch as main and or only gaming device lol

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Some of you really believe there's no people with switch as main and or only gaming device lol

We do, that's why I said each platform in general has very distinct demographics.

 

[Kataploom]

We do, that's why I said each platform in general has very distinct demographics.

Yeah, it doesn't disregard any competitor of their merits though, there's some overlap specially in the sold concept (entertainment/videogames) but each using their strength to appeal certain demographics isn't surrendering as some insinuate, it's being smart since the only thing that matters for a company is how much money there is in their pockets at the end of FY.

That's like saying Sony selling PS2 as cheap DVD player was "coward and should invalidate PS2 success" when, in fact, it was just using a strength they had over competitors (and it paid in spades).

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah, it doesn't disregard any competitor of their merits though, there's some overlap specially in the sold concept (entertainment/videogames) but each using their strength to appeal certain demographics isn't surrendering as some insinuate, it's being smart since the only thing that matters for a company is how much money there is in their pockets at the end of FY.

That's like saying Sony selling PS2 as cheap DVD player was "coward and should invalidate PS2 success" when, in fact, it was just using a strength they had over competitors (and it paid in spades).

Different way of saying the same thing, just with a more positive spin.

 

[Kerotan]

Some of you really believe there's no people with switch as main and or only gaming device lol

You don't understand economics.

That's like saying Ferrari and ford fiesta are primary competitors for that same reason.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The reverse is true for Sony. They tried to branch out into handheld (as well as console), and Nintendo batted that down when corporate greed overtook Sony with the Vita.

For sure, but I already said that.

That's why Nintendo was smart to make a hybrid console and include the handheld demographic.
Hence why both Sony and Nintendo thrive.

 

[Woopah]

You don't understand economics.

That's like saying Ferrari and ford fiesta are primary competitors for that same reason.

Its more like Toyota vs. Ford. Playstations are a mass market brand, not a tiny niche for the super rich.

I don't think it's an accurate representation to say that PlayStation's audience is a small fraction of the size of Nintendo's audience.

When was the last time the top selling car was a Ferrari?

 

[darrylgorn]

The Switch is destroying the other two in software and hardware sales.

But we can pretend like it's not competing if it makes Sony fans feel better.

 

[Woopah]

The Switch is destroying the other two in software and hardware sales.

But we can pretend like it's not competing if it makes Sony fans feel better.

Xbox yes, but Switch is not destroying PS5 in software or hardware.

 

[Kataploom]

You don't understand economics.

That's like saying Ferrari and ford fiesta are primary competitors for that same reason.

Switch and PS5 are both budget gaming devices within a reasonable close price and they are both "all-in-box" products, that comparison applies more to consoles vs PC actually.

Why when shitting on other machines about power, audience dedication, etc. (mostly from PS5 to Switch for some reason) they ignore PC completely? All comparison get geared in their favor too like:

– But we're talking about only home consoles that SPECIFICALLY can't be used a handheld devices
– But it's only played by children and single moms with depression
– But it doesn't count if X compete in market they're better than Y
– But it doesn't count if it's not this specific way that X is bad but Y is good, it has to be with same games, same audience, etc, etc.

Damn...

 

[Spitfire098]

 

[Kerotan]

Its more like Toyota vs. Ford. Playstations are a mass market brand, not a tiny niche for the super rich.

I don't think it's an accurate representation to say that PlayStation's audience is a small fraction of the size of Nintendo's audience.

When was the last time the top selling car was a Ferrari?

It's more like a family car Vs a Volkswagen golf. Not directly competing.

 

[Woopah]

It's more like a family car Vs a Volkswagen golf. Not directly competing.

Yes I'd say that's more accurate

 

[Shut0wen]

They won in 1994 when they beat the pants out of the Saturn and the N64 was delayed by another year. By the time the N64 launched it was over. Sega launched Dreamcast and 98 and it died to the PS2 two years before the PS2 even launched as people were more interested in seeing what a second playstation could do than buying another company's next gen console. Then the PS2 launched and won the gen before the gamcube and Xbox were at the starting line.

Yeah and theyve been beaten by nintendo twice already, ever since sony started making playstation a graphic centric console they've never had the same success since the ps2 (not saying ps4 didnt do bad but nowhere near the numbers as ps1 and 2) sony literally had the casual and hardcore audience and literally lost the casuals since the ps3

 

[FoxMcChief]

Sony and Nintendo do not directly compete. Most people who own a switch also own an Xbox or a Playstation.

I think most people that own a Switch, also own a PlayStation or an Xbox.

 

[Kabelly]

The damage the Xbox One launch did for the Xbox brand can't be understated. I would say that was the moment.

 

[Horseganador]

With this plus all the firsts that have to arrive, PS5 will easily pass 100 million again, even outselling PS4.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Sony left the handheld market because of Sony, not Nintendo

I loved both Sony handhelds, but your take has me thinking….

 

[WhiteWaterM00se]

I guess it depends on what you mean by “top”. Are we talking popularity, gaming revenue, pure profit?, mindshare?

Sony is not top’s on all of these things. Apple, Google, and Valve would like to have a word, if we are talking pure gaming profit. Sony has done a terrible job managing brands of their IP and also creating new experiences beyond the 3rd person adventure genre. Yet, the PlayStation brand stays strong due to great 3rd party titles and some stellar first party titles. No company stays on top forever in gaming. Atari, Sega, Nintendo, EA, Sierra, Activision and Nintendo can all attest to this.

As I said, it just depends. Personally, I don’t believe Sony can ride high with only those types of games for another 30 years. We will see though.

I do hope they do well going forward. Competition is the key to diversity and smaller companies staying around.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The reason they would answer with a minor's info, would be if their child has more interest in a Switch than they did.

The age info they used when making the account doesn't matter, since that's not the info the graph is made from.

Let's say Sony sent you a survey, and asked for the age and gender of the person in your household with the most interest in a PS5. Why would you put your own age, if your son was the person most interested in a PS5?

Because they are a child is why. People do this all the time.