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[Woopah]

Because they are a child is why. People do this all the time.

Why does someone having a child mean they would lie on a survey?

If a child is the person most interested, they would put the child's age. If the adult is the person most interested, they would put their own age.

I agree that people might use their own age when setting up a child's account. But this graph isn't based on that data.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Why does someone having a child mean they would lie on a survey?

If a child is the person most interested, they would put the child's age. If the adult is the person most interested, they would put their own age.

I agree that people might use their own age when setting up a child's account. But this graph isn't based on that data.

How many children would even participate in a survey?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Why does someone having a child mean they would lie on a survey?

If a child is the person most interested, they would put the child's age. If the adult is the person most interested, they would put their own age.

I agree that people might use their own age when setting up a child's account. But this graph isn't based on that data.

Because I/the parent am the payee towards the account and supervisor of the child.


We can give them a child friendly user ID but we setup the account with our info that includes our contact info,address,age and sometimes payment info etc.

It's really not hard to understand why parents do this. I am having a hard time understanding the denial that Nintendo’s biggest audience is children though.

 

[Woopah]

How many children would even participate in a survey?

Probably not many. But the survey isn't asking for the age of the person filling out the survey. Its asking for the age of the person in the household who is most interested in the Switch.

So if a parent gets the survey, and the person in the house most interested in the Switch is their 15 year old son, the answer to the survey question is 15.

 

[Woopah]

Because I/the parent am the payee towards the account and supervisor of the child.


We can give them a child friendly user ID but we setup the account with our info that includes our contact info,address,age and sometimes payment info etc.

It's really not hard to understand why parents do this. I am having a hard time understanding the denial that Nintendo’s biggest audience is children though.

But as I've already said, this graph is not based on account age data.

The fact that you used your age when setting up the account doesn't matter, because that data isnt being used to make the graph. Its an irrelevant data set.

Every single Switch owner could change their age on their account, and it would have 0 zero impact on that graph.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

But as I've already said, this graph is not based on account age data.

The fact that you used your age when setting up the account doesn't matter, because that data isnt being used to make the graph. Its an irrelevant data set.

Every single Switch owner could change their age on their account, and it would have 0 zero impact on that graph.

The hoops are real.
Simple question... Do you dare say more adults play Switch?

How many children would even participate in a survey?

Not many

 

[Woopah]

The hoops are real.
Simple question... Do you dare say more adults play Switch?

Not many

What hoops? What I said about the graph is factual. Its not based on account age data.

I think that not many children would answer the survey. And I think that some parents would use their own data when setting up accounts for their children.

We agree on both of those points, yes?

I think if we were to compare the number of Switch players who are 0-17, to the number who are 18 or above, the latter would be larger since that is a far wider age range.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What hoops? What I said about the graph is factual. Its not based on account data.

I think that not many children would answer the survey. And I think that some parents would use their own data when setting up accounts for their children.

We agree on both of those points, yes?

I think if we were to compare the number of Switch players who are 0-17, to thrle number who are 18 or above, the later would be larger since that is a far wider age range.

It's really not that hard.
Emails were sent to the addresses that were made via account setup.
I pointed out that adults usually setup these accounts.
Let me also had adults use emails more than Children and adults are more likely to participate in such surveys.

I would say and it doesn't take a expert.. just non biased open eyes that not only does Nintendo market to minors more but they have succeeded in them making up the majority of the people who play Nintendo devices.

 

[Woopah]

It's really not that hard.
Emails were sent to the addresses that were made via account setup.
I pointed out that adults usually setup these accounts.
Let me also had adults use emails more than Children and adults are more likely to participate in such surveys.

I agree with all of this.

So the adults get this survey, and it asks them who in the house is most interested in the Switch.

If the person who is most interested is a 12 year child, than the answer to the question is 12, right?

I would say and it doesn't take a expert.. just non biased open eyes that not only does Nintendo market to minors more but they have succeeded in them making up the majority of the people who play Nintendo devices.

Nintendo's adverts feature children, teenagers, people in their 20, and people 30 and over. All of them make up significant portions of the Switch userbase.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I agree with all of this.

So the adults get this survey, and it asks them who in the house is most interested in the Switch.

If the person who is most interested is a 12 year child, than the answer to the question is 12, right?

Nintendo's adverts feature children, teenagers, people in their 20, and people 30 and over. All of them make up significant portions of the Switch userbase.

I didn't give my children's ages in surveys nor would I.
When it comes to children I think that's a bit to much info.
Some would gladly share such things.

With email surveys you have some that don't get them/junk mail,you have some that don't participate and you have some who might not want to share certain info.
Which makes them a unreliable source.

We don't want to get the majority/average required age ratings for 15 years worth of Nintendo game exclusives do we?

 

[Woopah]

I didn't give my children's ages in surveys nor would I.
When it comes to children I think that's a bit to much info.
Some would gladly share such things.

With email surveys you have some that don't get them/junk mail,you have some that don't participate and you have some who might not want to share certain info.
Which makes them a unreliable source.

We don't want to get the majority/average required age ratings for 15 years worth of Nintendo game exclusives do we?

No survey has a 100% response rate, its still data from a representative sample of Switch owners in North America.

We can see the variety of the Switch's intended audience in the marketing. Some them are in the "Switch is for people 6 to 60" type approach, showing it being enjoyed across three generations, like these:





But then you have other adverts clearly aimed at adults only, like these:





None of these adverts required 18+ rated games to be targeted at an 18+ audience. Nintendo's whole thing is aiming for a wide, diverse range of people.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No survey has a 100% response rate, its still data from a representative sample of Switch owners in North America.

We can see the variety of the Switch's intended audience in the marketing. Some them are in the "Switch is for people 6 to 60" type approach, showing it being enjoyed across three generations, like these:





But then you have other adverts clearly aimed at adults only, like these:





None of these adverts required 18+ rated games to be targeted at an 18+ audience. Nintendo's whole thing is aiming for a wide, diverse range of people.

Apart from different age groups, their marketing is clearly aimed at a very different demographic than PS and Xbox.
Which is ultimately what people have been referring to.

 

[Woopah]

Apart from different age groups, their marketing is clearly aimed at a very different demographic than PS and Xbox.
Which is ultimately what people have been referring to.

I would agree with that statement a lot more. But that wasn't the argument the graph was used against.

The original argument was that Nintendo's core audience is children, and that they are moving over to tablets.

There are definitely some differences in the demographics between Switch and PS/XB (such as Nintendo skewing more female).

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Apart from different age groups, their marketing is clearly aimed at a very different demographic than PS and Xbox.
Which is ultimately what people have been referring to.

These two things are connected and prove the point even more so.

No survey has a 100% response rate, its still data from a representative sample of Switch owners in North America.

We can see the variety of the Switch's intended audience in the marketing. Some them are in the "Switch is for people 6 to 60" type approach, showing it being enjoyed across three generations, like these:





But then you have other adverts clearly aimed at adults only, like these:





None of these adverts required 18+ rated games to be targeted at an 18+ audience. Nintendo's whole thing is aiming for a wide, diverse range of people.

It's a skewed sample.
Of course all ages play Nintendo games...I'm no child for example so adverts reflect this. The game design and ratings(which I stated) are for young children as that's the main demographic unlike other companies exclusives.

 

[mckmas8808]

Apart from different age groups, their marketing is clearly aimed at a very different demographic than PS and Xbox.
Which is ultimately what people have been referring to.

Exactly!

 

[Woopah]

These two things are connected and prove the point even more so.

It's a skewed sample.
Of course all ages play Nintendo games...I'm no child for example so adverts reflect this. The game design and ratings(which I stated) are for young children as that's the main demographic unlike other companies exclusives.

But the point is there is no "main" demographic. Gran Turismo has an age rating of 3 and can be enjoyed by children. It doesn't mean it's main audience is children.

Similar for Ring Fit Adventure, FIFA, Switch Sports, Dragon Quest etc. There are many franchises that appeal to a wide variety of age groups.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

But the point is there is no "main" demographic. Gran Turismo has an age rating of 3 and can be enjoyed by children. It doesn't mean it's main audience is children.

Similar for Ring Fit Adventure, FIFA, Switch Sports, Dragon Quest etc. There are many franchises that appeal to a wide variety of age groups.

There is with Nintendo as the MAJORITY of there exclusives ratings suggest unlike Sony and MS.

Every person who's being honest sees a huge difference in the age demographic of Nintendo and Sony products.

 

[iHaunter]

Xbox is the market leader

In engagement?

 

[WhiteWaterM00se]

One thought i have always had though was if Sony would institute “Ultimate Backwards Compatiblity” and include all the PS1-PS4 games (within reason.). This seems like an impossible task But, with the recent rumors of PS2 BC, this would be a way Sony could stay in front, imo.

Imagine a dad keeping his ps2 NCAA football disc and also playing 2024 Colledge Football with his son.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Can The Sony PlayStation 2 Remain The Top-Selling Gaming Console of All TIme?​

 

[Woopah]

There is with Nintendo as the MAJORITY of there exclusives ratings suggest unlike Sony and MS.

Every person who's being honest sees a huge difference in the age demographic of Nintendo and Sony products.

Yes Nintendo games have a lower age bound generally to Sony games (7 - 40+, rather than 18 - 40+).

That doesn't mean 50% of Nintendo's audience is 17 or under.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yes Nintendo games have a lower age bound generally to Sony games (7 - 40+, rather than 18 - 40+).

That doesn't mean 50% of Nintendo's audience is 17 or under.

Yes it does.

 

[Woopah]

Yes it does.

How are you drawing that conclusion?

By that same reasoning we could say "a lot of Nintendo's ganes can be enjoyed by people in their 30s, therefore more than 50% of their audience is over 30".

The age rating of a game does not tell us the average age of its players. Plenty of people in their 20s and 30s play games like FIFA, Madden, Gran Turismo, Hogwarts Legacy, NBA etc.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

How are you drawing that conclusion?

By that same reasoning we could say "a lot of Nintendo's ganes can be enjoyed by people in their 30s, therefore more than 50% of their audience is over 30".

The age rating of a game does not tell us the average age of its players. Plenty of people in their 20s and 30s play games like FIFA, Madden, Gran Turismo, Hogwarts Legacy, NBA etc.

You keep conviently missing the most of the games they make are rated for children + unlike most of PlayStation and Xbox exclusive games part.

Nintendo has always been marked as a toy(had its NA origins in only toy stores at first)
These days even more so.

You have a right to your opinion and denial.

Spare me the adults also play with toy bit and like stated I also play and enjoy Nintendo ESPECIALLY for my family as I know that they mainly make children friendly games.

 

[kazuyamishima]

A lot of users at Most of the Nintendo forums I've been into say that the age demographic for the Switch is mostly between the ages of 18-30.

But every time I go to retailers here in Australia, the Nintendo section mostly consists of kids with their parents.

 

[RickMasters]

Whose Nintendo's core audience again?

Yeah and I’d bet the majority of that 43% is in r the over 30side of things. Shit I’m a ninthendo fan too but I know those characters are not aimed a at my demographic. ( I’m 38 by the way). Transformer are ain’t at kids but who do you think is buying them 200 plus dollar Takara models? Modern men are big kids and that’s ok. We all still play video games. But let’s not kid ourself as and pretend Nintendo do is aiming for us. You Damn well know that anytime you see a Nintendo advert…… do any of them look like you?………


You really think a cartoony plumber, a CGI- looking Disney style princess and a fuckin mushroom headed midget is aimed at people over 12 years old?

 

[lordrand11]

To be fair, the company that's truly winning that does output their own hardware is Valve.

 

[Woopah]

You keep conviently missing the most of the games they make are rated for children + unlike most of PlayStation and Xbox exclusive games part.

Nintendo has always been marked as a toy(had its NA origins in only toy stores at first)
These days even more so.

You have a right to your opinion and denial.

Spare me the adults also play with toy bit and like stated I also play and enjoy Nintendo ESPECIALLY for my family as I know that they mainly make children friendly games.

I'm not missing that point, I agree with you. Most Nintendo games are ones rated children and up or "E for Everyone" and they are played by everyone.

This includes children, but is not limited to children. Millions of Switch players are kids, millions are teenagers, millions are in their 20s and millions are in their 30s.

That will also be true for PlayStation, although I would expect the average age of a PlayStation owner to be higher.

Hence why Nintendo constantly markets their games to adults, as well as children. Because they know adults are a huge portion of their audience.

This advert is not aimed at children stressed by their corporate job:



And this advert is not aimed at kids who have limited free time due to parenting responsibilities:



If we were in the 80s I would say yes, a majority of their audience is children. But now several decades have passed, and their audience has diversified.

 

[tkscz]

Yeah and I’d bet the majority of that 43% is in r the over 30side of things. Shit I’m a ninthendo fan too but I know those characters are not aimed a at my demographic. ( I’m 38 by the way). Transformer are ain’t at kids but who do you think is buying them 200 plus dollar Takara models? Modern men are big kids and that’s ok. We all still play video games. But let’s not kid ourself as and pretend Nintendo do is aiming for us. You Damn well know that anytime you see a Nintendo advert…… do any of them look like you?………


You really think a cartoony plumber, a CGI- looking Disney style princess and a fuckin mushroom headed midget is aimed at people over 12 years old?

Nintendo is no different from Disney in that it's audience is everyone as it makes things that everyone can get into age be damned. Mario games have big family appeal, which is why you see him on everything. Nintendos shown before they could easily make party games without his face on it and they still sell but Mario Party, Mario Kart, those easily are targeted at families without being aimed at a specific age. Games likes Zelda and Metroid are aimed at older audiences, while Pokemon and Kirby would be more aimed at younger audiences but Nintendo fully knows the appeal is to everyone. Look at how many game ads Nintendo releases that is focused on families or a group of people of all ages. They are aiming at anyone who buys their games.

I'm not missing that point, I agree with you. Most Nintendo games are ones rated children and up or "E for Everyone" and they are played by everyone.

This includes children, but is not limited to children. Millions of Switch players are kids, millions are teenagers, millions are in their 20s and millions are in their 30s.

That Will also be true for PlayStation, although I would expect the average age of a PlayStation owner to be higher.

Hence why Nintendo constantly markets their games to adults, as well as children. Because they know adults are a huge portion of their audience.

This advert is not aimed at children stressed by their corporate job:



And this advert is not aimed at kids who have limited free time due to parenting responsibilities:



If we were in the 80s I would say yes, a majority of their audience is children. But now several decades have passed, and their audience has diversified.

Yeah, this.

 

[Gaiff]

I see more kids playing COD than I see kids playing Pokémon and I see more adults playing Pokémon than kids playing Pokémon.

 

[RickMasters]

Nintendo is no different from Disney in that it's audience is everyone as it makes things that everyone can get into age be damned. Mario games have big family appeal, which is why you see him on everything. Nintendos shown before they could easily make party games without his face on it and they still sell but Mario Party, Mario Kart, those easily are targeted at families without being aimed at a specific age. Games likes Zelda and Metroid are aimed at older audiences, while Pokemon and Kirby would be more aimed at younger audiences but Nintendo fully knows the appeal is to everyone. Look at how many game ads Nintendo releases that is focused on families or a group of people of all ages. They are aiming at anyone who buys their games.



Yeah, this.

Listen…. I like Nintendo too you know?….. but if you think that “family friendly” advertising does anything for childless 20 somethings gen ax’s or tik tok obsessed gen alpha, you really don’t know that generation from a marketing perspective,


I like Nintendo as much as you. As a gamer. But when I see a Nintendo advert with kids and grandparent swinging wiimotes and staring all giddy eyed at the screen at 2D Mario it does not make me think… “ god this is cool” ….. I like it for the same reasons you do. We are gamers and we respect Nintendos craft. But don’t kid yourself and think that shit washed with new school gamers.



This is all gonna look a lot different in a few years……

 

[bender]

Listen…. I like Nintendo too you know?

 

[Oof85]

I deadass don't even get the point of this tangent.

Nintendo shoots the widest possible net, yes including children.

Nintendo designs things to pop in terms of colors and looks, to catch as many eyes as possible, starting at kids and then up.

Nintendo's not just enjoyed by children though. Look at social media, so many adults who openly base their hobbies around Nintendo flavored things, beyond gaming at that.

What exactly is even being argued at this point?

That Nintendo's audience is primarily 17 and younger? That's not even quantifiable by any measure.

The one measure we did get from Nintendo themselves, showed that its the 18-30 range where most of their buyers come from.

Unless you're just gonna say that Nintendo is lying.

Which is cool, but that same cynicism can and will be applied to other reports from publishers.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Yeah and theyve been beaten by nintendo twice already, ever since sony started making playstation a graphic centric console they've never had the same success since the ps2 (not saying ps4 didnt do bad but nowhere near the numbers as ps1 and 2) sony literally had the casual and hardcore audience and literally lost the casuals since the ps3

Only time they lost market share to Nintendo was with the PSP and Vita. Playstation has never lost a significant amount of consumers to Nintendo. The Wii was people that owned PS360s and casual gamers that never bought consoles. The Switch did not steal PS4 gamers it just got them to buy Nintendo in addition to their playstation/Xbox.

 

[FunkMiller]

Looking forward to posts like this getting necrobumped in three years, when Nintendo is comprehensively outselling Sony, because they kept their exclusives and Sony didn't.

Future person who necrobumps: can you quote this post please, so I can act smug?

 

[Shut0wen]

Only time they lost market share to Nintendo was with the PSP and Vita. Playstation has never lost a significant amount of consumers to Nintendo. The Wii was people that owned PS360s and casual gamers that never bought consoles. The Switch did not steal PS4 gamers it just got them to buy Nintendo in addition to their playstation/Xbox.

Ps2 was one of biggest casual consoles of all time sony literally opened the gates to casuals to games and then lost them to nintendo, literally a fact i dont really get your psp comment since it actually did well while vita again was aimed at a more hardcore consumers and literally failed

 

[Topher]

Ps2 was one of biggest casual consoles of all time sony literally opened the gates to casuals to games and then lost them to nintendo, literally a fact i dont really get your psp comment since it actually did well while vita again was aimed at a more hardcore consumers and literally failed

Wii was a hit with previous non-gamers so saying PS "lost" gamers to Nintendo isn't telling the whole story. PS definitely lost customers to Xbox 360 however. Fact of the matter is that Wii was the only console that actually expanded the market to folks who wanted have otherwise bought a console at all.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Wii was a hit with previous non-gamers so saying PS "lost" gamers to Nintendo isn't telling the whole story. PS definitely lost customers to Xbox 360 however. Fact of the matter is that Wii was the only console that actually expanded the market to folks who wanted have otherwise bought a console at all.

Nintendo also lost the same non-gamers with WiiU.

We also shouldn't ignore that.

 

[Topher]

Nintendo also lost the same non-gamers with WiiU.

We also shouldn't ignore that.

Yeah, I think Nintendo was going to lose their Wii base of non-gamers no matter what. We are talking about people who don't care about upgrading to the "next gen" of hardware. Their Wii sat right next to their VCR and they were happy with that. The Wii U was such a confused mess, however, that it went above and beyond losing Wii gamers. 13 million sold, down from 100+ million, was a remarkable achievement of failure. Between that and the confused mess of the Xbox One, perfect storm for the simplicity of PS4.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah, I think Nintendo was going to lose their Wii base of non-gamers no matter what. We are talking about people who don't care about upgrading to the "next gen" of hardware. Their Wii sat right next to their VCR and they were happy with that. The Wii U was such a confused mess, however, that it went above and beyond losing Wii gamers. 13 million sold, down from 100+ million, was a remarkable achievement of failure. Between that and the confused mess of the Xbox One, perfect storm for the simplicity of PS4.

Very true.

It did work out well in the end, as it got Nintendo to come up with the Switch.

I still think the ideal situation for a healthy gaming industry would be PC, Playstation and Nintendo, each with the specific demographics they have now and MS just being a 3rd party publisher like EA and Ubisoft.

 

[Shut0wen]

Wii was a hit with previous non-gamers so saying PS "lost" gamers to Nintendo isn't telling the whole story. PS definitely lost customers to Xbox 360 however. Fact of the matter is that Wii was the only console that actually expanded the market to folks who wanted have otherwise bought a console at all.

Casual gamers have been a target since the ps1, literally went from ps1, ps2 ds, wii, psp, 3ds and now switch, a majority playstation 2 gamers were casuals, everyone that hsd a ps2 had an eyetoy, everyone and there gran had an eyetoy before moving to the wii

 

[Topher]

Casual gamers have been a target since the ps1, literally went from ps1, ps2 ds, wii, psp, 3ds and now switch, a majority playstation 2 gamers were casuals, everyone that hsd a ps2 had an eyetoy, everyone and there gran had an eyetoy before moving to the wii

I'm not talking about casuals. I'm talking about non-gamers. Folks who never had any interest in gaming at all were buying Wii.

Just as an example, there was a ton of nursing homes buying up Wii back then. You had soccer moms playing video games for the first time in their lives. They extended that non-gaming interest well into the Wii's life cycle with Wii Fit.

Even nursing homes love Nintendo Wii's brilliant game controller - Charleston City Paper

It's a Wii-volution, my friends, and as the Borg says, "Resistance is futile; all will be assimilated."

charlestoncitypaper.com

Heck, years later and Wii was still going strong in nursing hoimes.

Nintendo's Wii Is Still A Hit In Care Homes 13 Years Later

Residents are "hooked"

www.nintendolife.com

Nintendo Wii’s Growing Market of “Nonconsumers”

In May, Nintendo will seek to expand its successful strategy of expanding the video game market by launching the U.S. version of “Wii Fit.” All signs suggest that Nintendo’s strategy of “competing against nonconsumption” will continue to thrive. Nintendo’s strategy has long been one of our...

hbr.org

Wii and the motion controls was a massive fad hit.

 

[tkscz]

Yeah, I think Nintendo was going to lose their Wii base of non-gamers no matter what. We are talking about people who don't care about upgrading to the "next gen" of hardware. Their Wii sat right next to their VCR and they were happy with that. The Wii U was such a confused mess, however, that it went above and beyond losing Wii gamers. 13 million sold, down from 100+ million, was a remarkable achievement of failure. Between that and the confused mess of the Xbox One, perfect storm for the simplicity of PS4.

What always got me with the WiiU was how Nintendo misread the hell out of the room. Software sales towards the middle of the Wii's life should've shown them that most audiences got Wii Sports and Mario Kart and that was it. Naming the next console after the Wii did nothing but add confusion, that and not making it perfectly clear it wasn't the Wii or an add on. The advertising for the Wii U was so bad, having NSMBU front and center and looking exactly like a NSMBW: HD with Wiimotes on screen, I don't know what they expected.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I just don't agree with this analysis.

Valve, who has worst first party offerings than Microsoft would somehow have more success, despite not being able to subsidize hardware prices as much?

Just because they have people on Steam doesn't mean these people are going to buy their hardware to play in a specific console form factor.

There is really no way to make a console like PC at scale with the same specs and price as a console.

I think people ignore the barriers of entry in the console market a bit too much. Microsoft failed despite their efforts for 20+ years. Sega failed despite being beloved by fans and having some great software. Apple and Tencent would find it difficult to enter the market too and it's a terrible time to enter the console market when the console market is going to shrink in the next 15 years.

Gaming is going to move to streaming by the end of 2040.

Wait...are we really saying DOTA 2 & Counterstrike 2 are worst than...Redfall? Because I'd argue those games are very high-quality and at least up there with Microsoft's best. Now yeah, Microsoft have MORE games and more variety in their game releases than Valve by far. But games like Halo Infinite wish they were even half as popular as DOTA 2, and even COD wished it were nearly as stable as Counterstrike in terms of community sentiment and future prognosis.

About the hardware stuff...well I do acknowledge that Valve can't subsidize the hardware the way Microsoft can, but what specs would they really need in order to be competitive? They could take a more indirect approach i.e Nintendo. For example maybe they do a console and don't push for high-end graphics, but have other SKUs which do. And yeah, bringing back some of the idea with Steam Machines, have other manufacturers make their variants.

But this time they take their lessons with the Steam Deck with them, and the bigger selling point would be these are Steam-powered consoles you can also use like PCs. Kind of what I would envision Microsoft doing actually with gaming hardware going forward, where with them it'd be Windows-powered gaming-centric mini-PCs/NUCs/laptops/tablets etc. built around a common spec blueprint with flexibility in customization options for OEMs (& Microsoft). So I guess in both the case of Microsoft & Valve, it's not so much about being 'direct' competitors for PlayStation, but more indirect competitors in adjacent markets.

They can't take the subsidization path like Sony can, or produce at the volumes Sony & Nintendo do, but they can have flexibility in their performance configs to where, yeah, they can have a $300 box, a $500 box, a $1000 box, or systems with different design profiles at those price brackets, made for comfortable PC gaming (at least at the level Steam Deck provides) and can also function as a regular PC. Just don't expect a $500 Steam Box to have the gaming performance of a $500 PS6; you might need the $800 or $1000 Steam Box to get that type of performance but you have other benefits to justify it even with the lower volumes (Steam, full functioning Linux distro, etc.).

As for the console barrier issues you're mentioning, well you listed a bunch of failures who failed not due to price but because they could not provide value proposition for the prices they were asking. No one really wants an Xbox console that is just an inferior PlayStation and has no actual exclusives. No one wanted a Dreamcast because SEGA offered bad value for Saturn relative to PS1 & N64 (I LOVE the Saturn, FWIW), and made similar mistakes with the 32X (should've never been released) and SEGA-CD. Apple did try back in the '90s with the Pippin, but it was a half-measure and basically a repackaged Mac with bad software support outside of the Marathon games.

Apple, Tencent whoever would have difficulty sure, just like any entrant, but if they made sure the value was there, they'd find some success. Meta in a way proved that a new entrant could work; Quest 2 sold more in a year than Xbox Series S & X did combined (10 million vs. 7.2 million). Meta's got other problems with their VR line particularly on software front (VR software sales are just puny in general), but they did grow the Quest install base by great measure, even if it also required subsidization on their part.

So there are things a new competitor would have to be mindful and willing to do, but it's not impossible to gain footing.

I don't think think they beat Nintendo . Nintendo hasn't axed any games nor have they laid off any of their employees while seemingly every other game conpany out there has had significant layoffs. Switch was a massive success on the same level as the PS4.

Microsoft is done but i think that has more to do with their own incompetence. They had a good strategy with the 360 and had they just stuck to it Sony would be the ones leaving the industry and MS would've had the whole console market to themselves.

Nintendo's cancelled plenty of games. I'm still waiting for Mother 64, just as one example.

As Much as we all love Nintendo, the Wii-U disaster wasn't that long ago. The way they transitioned from Wii is not that long ago. Even Nintendo is taking their time moving off Switch. Hopefully they nail it, but there is just as much chance they mess it up. Nintendo never does the expected or takes the obvious course. I am sure they are fighting interally to add gimmicks and not stay boring with an updated Switch release. Nintendo can be it's own worse enemy.

Sony has historically taken advantage of other companies mistakes and twisted the dagger. When an opportunity opens, they pounce. N64 cartridges . Xbox One, Game sharing, Dvd, you name it. They play it safe generally.

I think you're kind of not giving Sony enough credit. They didn't decide on CDs after N64 went with carts; Nintendo's the one who decided to stay with carts after knowing both Sony & SEGA were using CDs. That's why they were showing off the 64DD as early as 1995; they KNEW going with carts was a mistake from the get-go and the 64DD was their way of supplementing the cartridge's limitations.

With DVD, Kutaragi was determined for it to be in the PS2 from the get-go; SEGA knew other companies were going to use DVD; IIRC the M2 was rumored to have DVD functionality, and then Project X (later known as NUON) was revealed with DVD functionality even before the PS2. Both of those were before Dreamcast launched in Japan IIRC.

So, SEGA knew DVD was going to be the real deal, but they decided against it early on due to costs. That was their choice; Sony using DVDs for PS2 wasn't decided on because they found out SEGA wasn't using the tech, and I don't remember them ever directly teasing Dreamcast for lack of DVD support.

The "This is how you share games" bit, though? Yeah, that one was definitely a dagger aimed at Xbox. But Microsoft earned that one; they had 8th gen basically secured by the mid-point of 360's gen, and even towards the end the odds were slightly in their favor at least in most Western territories (especially US and UK). And then the debacle of the reveal happened.

Microsoft earned that smoke.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I'm not missing that point, I agree with you. Most Nintendo games are ones rated children and up or "E for Everyone" and they are played by everyone.

This includes children, but is not limited to children. Millions of Switch players are kids, millions are teenagers, millions are in their 20s and millions are in their 30s.

That will also be true for PlayStation, although I would expect the average age of a PlayStation owner to be higher.

Hence why Nintendo constantly markets their games to adults, as well as children. Because they know adults are a huge portion of their audience.

This advert is not aimed at children stressed by their corporate job:



And this advert is not aimed at kids who have limited free time due to parenting responsibilities:



If we were in the 80s I would say yes, a majority of their audience is children. But now several decades have passed, and their audience has diversified.

Nintendo is no different from Disney in that it's audience is everyone as it makes things that everyone can get into age be damned. Mario games have big family appeal, which is why you see him on everything. Nintendos shown before they could easily make party games without his face on it and they still sell but Mario Party, Mario Kart, those easily are targeted at families without being aimed at a specific age. Games likes Zelda and Metroid are aimed at older audiences, while Pokemon and Kirby would be more aimed at younger audiences but Nintendo fully knows the appeal is to everyone. Look at how many game ads Nintendo releases that is focused on families or a group of people of all ages. They are aiming at anyone who buys their games.



Yeah, this.

 

[Hudo]

Console Warzzzzzzzz are still alive, I see.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Console Warzzzzzzzz are still alive, I see.

Ofcourse.

It's just going to shift to Playstation vs Nintendo and Playstation vs PC.

 

[Woopah]

So you have no response to these arguments except spinning yourself in circles.

Edit: You've clearly shown you are capable of engaging in these discussions in a clear and logical way. You're better than this.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So you have no response to these arguments except spinning yourself in circles.

Edit: You've clearly shown you are capable of engaging in these discussions in a clear and logical way. You're better than this.

I and others have clearly responded to you and this attempted terrible spin that Nintendo’s main audience isn't children over and over and over.

You are losing credibility with this argument.

 

[tkscz]

I and others have clearly responded to you and this attempted terrible spin that Nintendo’s main audience isn't children over and over and over.

You are losing credibility with this argument.

Because you haven't really argued against it. The best I keep seeing is their character design, and console design but it's no different than the Disney design standard, it's for everyone, not just children. They create what attracts people and obviously it attracts more than children.

I even posted the survey Nintendo took showing that most people who play, not just bought, but play are between the ages of 20 and 30, and how is that argued against? Oh that's just parents who bought the Switch for their children and are using the parent's account. This was said with zero proof so that's just assumption made on the same argument.

But here, here are several different ads from Nintendo for the Switch featuring more then children.




Children, Teens, Adults families, all shown in the ad

Hell, the original launch ad/trailer for the Switch barely shown children


What more can we do to prove that Nintendo's audience is much wider than mostly children?