Support NeoGAF

[wesleyshark]

Thanks. That seems small. Guessing this is just the beginning.

Actually, those are pretty solid results for a weapon like this. The window for use is extremely narrow.

 

[Syrus]

36 Islamic State fighters. 0 civilians.

Flawless

 

[KingSnake]

So in the end it reached its purpose and no collateral damages? That's good.

 

[Jackpot]

Thanks. That seems small. Guessing this is just the beginning.

The MOAB is designed for "soft" targets (not bunkers) so this was more about destroying the cave system.

Guess we can put the 1 mile lethal radius to bed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39598046

I've heard it described as "1 mile blast radius" which would be different.

 

[Syrus]

The MOAB is designed for "soft" targets (not bunkers) so this was more about destroying the cave system.



I've heard it described as "1 mile blast radius" which would be different.

Lethality and blast radius are different.

 

[wesleyshark]

Definitely not lethal up to a 1mi radius.

 

[T.O.P]

Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-drops-mother-bombs-afghanistan-largest-nuclear-weapon/story?id=46778853

This is being blown way out of proportion.

A MOAB is hardly comparable to our nuclear arsenal, and maybe not even that of the originals. The yield statistics are sourced in the past few pages. People are letting the name and the headlines run away from them.

If it was indeed dropped in an isolated area (and out there, 1 mile can be well more than isolated enough, just as places within many countries that include the US), then there likely isn't any civilian casualties that many seem to be drawing a direct comparison to the US strikes in cities and towns/villages. Not every bomb drop kills non-combatants, though obviously that doesn't mean much at all given the casualties that have taken place.

The POTUS may be commander-in-chief, but they aren't involved with every strike, whether by drone, manned aerial units, or ground personnel. Again, don't let the MOAB make you think that this is a super special weapon on par with nuclear payloads or of a similar scale of impact and fallout to where they have the ultimate authorization. Given the isolated nature of the target area and the goal of the mission (collapsing/obliterating the tunnel network), there's little reason to need the POTUS to write off or require briefing before commencement.

As for the first time this weapon has been used, that's likely due to the unique situation that this is set apart from other strikes. The majority of strikes are within or near areas of some sort of population, or near areas of operation. This bomb may also have limited success due to the geography and geology of strike zones. This may have been that one time where it can actually be used to the desired effect with minimal risk.

Compared to the other BS this administration is pulling, this is a whole load of nothing unless we do get word of civilians in the area killed in a negligent manner (could be avoided if different payload used, weren't attempted to be diverted from the zone prior, etc).

Don't overblow things just because Trump is mentioned. Makes it less likely that people will listen.

Thanks for explaining

 

[sazzy]

36 Islamic State fighters. 0 civilians.

... and it destroyed the network of caves and tunnels going into Pakistan, including whatever equipment, arms, ammunition, etc they had stored in there.

 

[wesleyshark]

... and it destroyed the network of caves and tunnels going into Pakistan, including whatever equipment, arms, ammunition, etc they had stored in there.

Yep, that as well.

 

[Gnome Scat]

... and it destroyed the network of caves and tunnels going into Pakistan, including whatever equipment, arms, ammunition, etc they had stored in there.

Damn, if that's the case then this sounds like a smart move.

 

[backbreaker65]

Can someone please explain to me, how you can drop this big ass bomb that has this big ass blast radius, that leaves bodies intact in order to be counted? and how do they know they were ISIS.

 

[wesleyshark]

Can someone please explain to me, how you can drop this big ass bomb that has this big ass blast radius, that leaves bodies intact in order to be counted? and how do they know they were ISIS.

The count would have been taken before dropping the bomb, via the same intel they used to determine there was a cave network there.

That they were ISIS would be pretty easy to determine as well, given the context of who uses these tunnels and caves, and also tracking movement in and out, etc.

They don't just drop a bomb and hope for the best.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

No because we could shoot down a missile well before it got to our coast (America). Now I fear for Europe though

I'm still trying to figure out why people think that if a Nuke was fired, that it would only be one in any case imaginable. You don't warning shot with a nuke. It's a game ender.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Trump could end ISIS and I'd still hate Trump and don't want him President. His body language alone makes me cringe, don't even get me started on how he speaks.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Better scale without forgetting the "kilo" like many news agencies did, lol. "Largest non-nuclear bomb" makes it sound like there's anything close to equivalency, but it's still worlds apart, and not even factoring in radiation etc.

Fat Man would also be small for a nuclear bomb today, the bottom end of the scale still dwarfs MOAB.

 

[demosthenes]

No because we could shoot down a missile well before it got to our coast (America). Now I fear for Europe though

There was an article recently where an American general I think it was said that in perfect conditions they only had like a 47% confidence in being able to shoot down a nuke. I'd rather not take that chance.

 

[RedSparrows]

This is a perfect example of headlines being misleading. It's a fuck off massive bomb, sure, but it's not any where near a nuke. First reply in this thread shows just how misleading this kind of thing can be.

Also shows how weird news priorities/discourse is.

 

[Kickz]

Since when was Isis in Afghanistan?

 

[MadJackChurchill]

Since when was Isis in Afghanistan?

Isis affiliate group. Guessing that's their new branding of the Taliban?

 

[NyMartin90]

Since when was Isis in Afghanistan?

They've spread operations over multiple countries in the last 2-3 years. Their movement has taken over the jihadi movement compared to Al Qaeda or the Taliban. The Taliban though are mainly fighting for Afghanistan. There have even been reported clashes between all three of these factions now.

 

[| Praxis |]

Isis affiliate group. Guessing that's their new branding of the Taliban?

No, Taliban are separate altogether.

 

[kmfdmpig]

This is a perfect example of headlines being misleading. It's a fuck off massive bomb, sure, but it's not any where near a nuke. First reply in this thread shows just how misleading this kind of thing can be.

Also shows how weird news priorities/discourse is.

The majority of GAF is awful with this type of stuff. The WWIII ranting leads me to believe that half of this board hides under their desk every time they turn on the news.

 

[Ovid]

36 Islamic State fighters. 0 civilians.

Where did they get that number from?

 

[hey_monkey]

36 killed for 350 million?


And the long term effects are...?

 

[itsgreen]

36 killed for 350 million?


And the long term effects are...?

That bomb doesn't cost 350 million...

edit: google: moab costs, 16million per unit. First hit.

 

[| Praxis |]

Where did they get that number from?

They have teams on the ground at the site. Guess they counted the pieces.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Where did they get that number from?

BBC quotes the Afghan government saying that.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39598046

 

[NyMartin90]

Where did they get that number from?

Afghan Defense Ministry

A US military strike with a weapon known as the "mother of all bombs", or MOAB, killed 36 Islamic State (IS) group militants and destroyed their base, the Afghan defence ministry says.
The most powerful non-nuclear bomb ever used by the US in combat was dropped on IS tunnels in Nangarhar province.
No civilians were affected by the explosion, the ministry said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39598046

 

[zombiemortar]

36 killed for 350 million?


And the long term effects are...?

This is a fairly common misconception about the employment of certain weapon systems. The amount of ISIS fighters was most likely NOT the primary target of the strike, but rather the tunnel systems and weapons caches that were in them. Dropping a 16 million dollar weapon system to destroy the tunnels in a region where civilian casualties are incredibly low solves the massive and somewhat dirty problem of sending soldiers into the tunnels themselves - harkening back to the tunnel rat days of Vietnam (and trust me, nobody wants to do that again.)

As for long term effects? I guess that depends on what the point of that question is - its a conventional weapon system so there isn't any nuclear or biological fallout, its also not like we're going to just start dropping these things all over the place - they're large and difficult to get into theater in the first place and require specialized aircraft to drop them. If anything what this would lead to is forcing a migration of ISIS/foreign fighters from the tunnel systems between Afghanistan/Pakistan to move visible transit routes. I would also guess (key word, guess) that release authority for this particular weapon is somewhere either at the Combatant Command Level (so CENTCOM for Afghanistan) or in the Pentagon itself. I doubt POTUS would be the release authority for a conventional weapon inside of a currently active conflict zone, decisions like that are generally left to lower subordinate commands (despite popular belief that the President is deeply involved in the tactical planning of operations.)

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

36 evil cunts dead and an entire tunnel system destroyed along with any weapons/supplies that were in them is worth the 16 million dollar price tag anyway you look at it. Fuck ISIS.

 

[The Pope]

Mission was successful. Kudos to all those involved.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Trump could end ISIS and I'd still hate Trump and don't want him President. His body language alone makes me cringe, don't even get me started on how he speaks.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Fuck ISIS.

Great move. Honestly really love what they're doing overseas rn

 

[Joni]

Thanks. That seems small. Guessing this is just the beginning.

It is a bad place to bomb using regular weapons so they took it out. That they only took out 36 might be less important than taking out the fortress they were hiding in.

 

[Rentahamster]

Isis affiliate group. Guessing that's their new branding of the Taliban?

Guessing is bad. ISIS and the Taliban are actually fighting each other.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35123748

The two groups declared war on one another in January 2015 after IS announced the establishment of its branch in "Khorasan", an old name for Afghanistan and parts of neighbouring Pakistan, Iran and Central Asia. It was the first time that Islamic State, which has its roots in the conflicts in Iraq and Syria, had officially spread outside the Arab world.
IS, or "Daesh" as it is known by its Arabic acronym, was the first major militant group to directly challenge the authority of the Taliban's founder, Mullah Muhammad Omar, who was regarded by the Taliban as Amir-ul Momineen (Leader of the Faithful) of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda's leaders were given shelter by the Taliban leader and they had acknowledged his authority. But IS has been vocally opposed, with statements and propaganda videos questioning the legitimacy of the Taliban and accusing them of promoting the interests of Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency.

The Taliban hit back, telling the IS to stop "creating a parallel jihadist front". In an open letter to IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi dated 16 June, the Taliban warned they would be compelled "to defend our achievements".
The IS response a week later, from its central spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, specifically mentioned opponents in Khorasan, Libya and Syria and accused them of committing a religious crime. IS fighters were ordered to "have no mercy or compassion" for those who didn't "repent" and "join the Caliphate".

 

[Antagon]

A Dutch reporter mentions on Twitter that his fixer told him IS had already left the area earlier and no combatants have been killed. The fixer heard this from sources in the area of the blast The only deaths are a couple of nomads and shepherds. However he also mentions that the area is not accessible to independent journalists, so it's almost impossible to verify any of the claims.

Tweets in Dutch: https://mobile.twitter.com/HaraldDoornbos/status/852941696669298688

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

All this talk of the MOAB, I wonder if it'll make the Russians use ATBIP (Father of all bombs), would be cool to see.

 

[luckygodzilla]

36 killed for 350 million?


And the long term effects are...?

350 million is the total program cost, the singular bomb was nowhere near that expensive.

 

[bsp]

This is the first time I have ever heard someone use such a high yield themorbaric bomb in active warfare. The Soviets and Russians have long developed this technology and there are reports thermobaric weaponry was used but no thermobaric bomb this large has ever been used in warfare before.

It is unconventional because it is still being rapidly developed. Of course this isn't meant for a nuclear facility or a hardened military bunker, but is highly successful in non-nuclear deadly force against combatants. Why carpet bomb with several dumb guided bombs when you can drop a massive ordinance thermobaric bomb and literally evaporate all life within that large radius especially in mountainous or cavernous areas where cruise missiles pretty useless.

The MOAB is not a thermobaric bomb. It's ~9 tons of H6.

Here is footage of the strike. The fireball/central explosion is calculated to be about ~250m wide.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Nice updates, hey ISIS ...

 

[radios shipping overview]

Guessing is bad. ISIS and the Taliban are actually fighting each other.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35123748

Sometimes? I was reading about this and they seem to go back and forth. A group of Taliban seems to have gone over to the ISK at one point, and I've found stories about them both being at war and allied with each other at different points.

http://www.pajhwok.com/en/2016/09/24/most-ttp-fighters-join-isk-nangarhar-gen-nicholson
https://www.lawfareblog.com/islamic-state-taliban-rivalry-afghanistan
https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliba...al-alliance-in-eastern-afghanistan-1470611849

 

[Kin5290]

All this talk of the MOAB, I wonder if it'll make the Russians use ATBIP (Father of all bombs), would be cool to see.

The worrying thing is that unlike the US, Russia gives zero shits about causing civilian casualties (and actively tried to, what with their constant intentional bombing of hospitals). A massive bomb like that dropped near civilian population centers could be catastrophic.

 

[KTOOOOOOM]

fuck those scums how can they do this.do they have scientist or something?

cant post new thread for some reason .

and in a side note what is this line in neogaf main section

 

[AlteredBeast]

That line isn't on my screen...

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

fuck those scums how can they do this.do they have scientist or something?

cant post new thread for some reason .

and in a side note what is this line in neogaf main section

Source? Those look like matador.

 

[DrFurbs]

BBC reporting about 90 killed now.

 

[Staf]

36 Islamic State fighters. 0 civilians.

Good job Trump. Fuck ISIS.

 

[Vice]

fuck those scums how can they do this.do they have scientist or something?
http://i.imgur.com/p1osocr.jpg[/im
[img]http://i.imgur.com/zSKvxVk.jpg[/im
[img]http://i.imgur.com/8UYRsQr.jpg[/im]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/x9HW0LY.jpg[/im
[img]http://i.imgur.com/vsTd8Du.jpg[/im
[img]http://i.imgur.com/17WUYYN.jpg[/im


cant post new thread for some reason .

and in a side note what is this line in neogaf main section
[img]http://i.imgur.com/r5KS9o2.png?1

Money,lots of time and weapon making is complex but doable.
Or, they just bought them.

 

[Drencrom]

BBC reporting about 90 killed now.

Yup cant post a link atm but there are new reports that the isis death toll rose to over 90.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

The worrying thing is that unlike the US, Russia gives zero shits about causing civilian casualties (and actively tried to, what with their constant intentional bombing of hospitals). A massive bomb like that dropped near civilian population centers could be catastrophic.

USA gives zero shits as well, saying sorry after drone striking a wedding doesn't count.

Also it's worrying to see posts like "it's not as powerful as a nuke", like is that our new standard after 100 days of Trump? "Hey at least it's not a a bomb". Frightening stuff.