I dunno, last time I played the series, there were customized rules to eliminate some of the extra fluff. Hardcore mode? I never played anything besides that.
CoD has almost ruined a generation of shooter players - Tripwire
- Thread starter Dave Meltzer
- Start date
I dunno, last time I played the series, there were customized rules to eliminate some of the extra fluff. Hardcore mode? I never played anything besides that.
This has been mentioned before in this topic, but the problem isn't Call of Duty. The problem is all the competitors trying to ape Call of Duty wholeheartedly instead of trying to make something truly original even if taking some of the actual good things Call of Duty added to the genre.
I mean the previous popular genres didn't look as homogenized as the FPS does now. You don't get to challenge a game like Call of Duty by making a game like Call of Duty. You do that by understanding what makes Call of Duty a good game... and going in a completely different direction with your game than Call of Duty does.
Sonic didn't get to challenge Mario by being Mario, but instead by being the Anti-Mario. Sonic was designed to be everything Mario was not while still being in Mario's genre. Saints Row couldn't be one of the popular open sandbox games by aping GTA, but by being everything GTA was not while still being in its genre.
Basically, what will be successful is not the game that apes Call of Duty, but the game that becomes everything Call of Duty is not while still being within the general expectations of an FPS.
I mean the previous popular genres didn't look as homogenized as the FPS does now. You don't get to challenge a game like Call of Duty by making a game like Call of Duty. You do that by understanding what makes Call of Duty a good game... and going in a completely different direction with your game than Call of Duty does.
Sonic didn't get to challenge Mario by being Mario, but instead by being the Anti-Mario. Sonic was designed to be everything Mario was not while still being in Mario's genre. Saints Row couldn't be one of the popular open sandbox games by aping GTA, but by being everything GTA was not while still being in its genre.
Basically, what will be successful is not the game that apes Call of Duty, but the game that becomes everything Call of Duty is not while still being within the general expectations of an FPS.
Uiki
Member
Nope, hardcore it's a joke..it just removes the hud and gives you less health, in a fast paced arcade game with guns that shoot a million bullets per second.
There was a playlist in black ops 1, barebones... gun, no sights, no perks, no killstreaks, no nothing. It was obviously a fucking desert.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I was playing CoH online and the Chinese exchange student staying at my house came up to me and asked if you got XP to level up in the game. I said, no, you don't. He replies with, "then what is the point of playing it?"
Fully blew my mind.
Fully blew my mind.
But the advanced players/pro's can play it and be at peace.
I appreciate your input on this, like said I'm not an expert and talking mostly on general level.
Uiki
Member
with a thermonuclear killstreak.
Megalosaro
Banned
JRPGs disagree.
First you had Dragon Quest clones
And then you had Final Fantasy clones
As long as there is a set of rules (game mechanics, decent behavior, etc.) you can't take out skill from the equation. Even though CoD might be dumbed down, it's still competitve.
I don't think CoD has ruined FPS. Activision has simply honed the cookie cutter formula for accessible gameplay. But I really do wish that FPS games would be more story driven and less Michael Bay inspired. All hail to Irrational Games.
I've recently got into BF3 MP on the PC, and it's worryingly difficult. I played it on Xbox at release, and I don't remember sucking this much. I could really use a mentor, as I feel like I'm just giving away kills on my account:S - Talk about skill.
I don't think CoD has ruined FPS. Activision has simply honed the cookie cutter formula for accessible gameplay. But I really do wish that FPS games would be more story driven and less Michael Bay inspired. All hail to Irrational Games.
I've recently got into BF3 MP on the PC, and it's worryingly difficult. I played it on Xbox at release, and I don't remember sucking this much. I could really use a mentor, as I feel like I'm just giving away kills on my account:S - Talk about skill.
Uiki
Member
It becomes difficult to play when you have like 4k players in the playlist in the peak hour.
I'm from italy and the majority of cod players are from us. 4k players are like 75 times less than a deatchmatch playlist. So it was kinda hard to find a game that was actually playable, for me.
Like I said few pages ago, a balanced gameplay doesn't work on console shooters because the majority of players are not really multiplayers fans.
I feel that the tripwire guy is mad because of this but he referrs to a crowd that has actually no interest in a game like ro2.
That's like blaming a kid for playing mario kart instead of rfactor.
Well, it's true that CoD has become a festival of scripted pseudo-QTEs. I'm baffled everytime someone points to this series as "hardcore" as opposed to, say, Nintendo's Mario franchise. As accesible as the Mario games look and feel, I've yet to see one where you just auto-lock to a platform and land there with no skill required.
JimmyRustler
Member
What I am baffeld about is that the CoD hype hasn't died down yet. Seriously, I am not a big shooter player but I loved Modern Warfar 1+2. By now however I can't see this series any more. Blows my mind that CoD is still pulling 20+ mill in sales every year. Like how often can you play the same shit all over again? Don't get it.
computers putin'
Member
You sound like one of those players that blame every death they get on everything else and never find fault in their own play. And what new player is gonna get a nuke? how does a nuke help a new player? These killstreaks are mostly out of reach to the average player, it's usually the good players reaping the rewards.
Really, just play a fighting it game if you crave skill based gameplay so much. ultimately, regardless of how many"crutches" are given out to help players, somebody is going to rise to the top of the pack as a better player, and guess what, it takes skill to do so.
Uiki
Member
I'm really not that kind of player.
It's not the nuke that helps the new players...it's the radar system, the uavs, predators, perks, smgs, shtoguns, hipfire from sniper rifles, loadouts....
I mean, i get it..it's cod, we all know it. And believe me or not, i'm not the one that blames this shit if i suck. I hate all of the above even worse when i think that the worst out of it is not by newcomers but by people who can exploit this things (like the knife in mw2 or the javelin, just to name 2).
I enjoy way more an fps that has not all that random crap. An fps that's completely based on skill (like cs, for example).
Blame shareholders and publishers, not audience and developers.
Personally, I hope how next-gen will allow for more shooters to go 60fps and shorten the "perception and lag-gap".
Bridging that difference is crucial IMO
And there will always be audience for some types of games. But until shareholders and publishers just want to maximize their investment/profit, we are Coddomed.
Long live Killzone 2.
Personally, I hope how next-gen will allow for more shooters to go 60fps and shorten the "perception and lag-gap".
Bridging that difference is crucial IMO
And there will always be audience for some types of games. But until shareholders and publishers just want to maximize their investment/profit, we are Coddomed.
Long live Killzone 2.
computers putin'
Member
Preferring gun on gun gameplay is fine, I feel the same way sometimes. I just took issue with you saying these things exist only to help bad players; good players benefit too ( even if some don't like to acknowledge it) and usually benefit more, so it's not a one way street.
I do think killstreaks and perks skew the skill gap in the community some, but the fact that a skill gap exists means the game at least takes SOME skill.
Uiki
Member
That's for sure and i said it few times in this topic. But it is really a tiny amount. In comparison with another console shooter, halo (2,3) took a lot more to be mastered.
Illithid Dude
Member
How long until Call of Duty is just named after the year it releases a la Madden?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I don't think it's ever really appropriate to blame the audience for not finding your game appealing.
Now compare Final Fantasy to Dragon Quest. After all, both are JRPGs, aren't they? Both are extremely successful JRPG franchises, in fact. Comparatively, Mother, Lufia, and SaGa are not.
Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, when compared to each other, are complete opposites while still being in the same genre. They are also the two who had gotten to their tenth installment, while Mother, Lufia, and SaGa have not. Even Dragon Warrior I and Final Fantasy I have different feels to them when compared.
In fact, I will go in depth on how Final Fantasy, the latter game, goes in a completely different direction to Dragon Quest using just the first games in both series. The story of the first Dragon Quest game is your standard plot where you save the princess. Final Fantasy has you save a princess as well, but that serves not as the entire story like for Dragon Quest, but as the prologue. You don't get to see the title of the game until you've rescued Princess Sara from Garland. Essentially, Final Fantasy begins with a deliberate statement on how Dragon Quest does things and how it is not Dragon Quest.
Samir Sedlar
Member
Pretty much this.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I think the same thing about Football/Soccer.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Only CoD gamers are guilty of this? Look at the crazy sales of Pokemon, Mariokart, Halo, Gears of War, Uncharted, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter etc...we're all guilty of enjoying the same shit over and over.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I still don't get the point of blaming COD.
Activision didn't force developers to copy it.
They did so of their own free will.
Blame lazy devs, not Activision.
Activision didn't force developers to copy it.
They did so of their own free will.
Blame lazy devs, not Activision.
Dictator93
Member
really?
If game develpoment can at times be considered an art form... wouldnt it make sense if an audience did not understand/appreciate some sort of masterful work?
Historically... this happens all the time.
JimmyRustler
Member
Not quite. The games you mention are not released yearly. CoD is.
captmorgan
Banned
Dont you understand that COD is so skill less that everybody who plays is on the top of the leader boards every game with 100 kills no deaths.
captmorgan
Banned
So what your saying is "big rigs" is just like Michelangelo?
phosphor112
Banned
Agreed with basically everything you said... and since you mentioned it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlAmFPL6xgc
Good ole Tribes 2 video showing how high one's "individual" skill can get.
diffusionx
Gold Member
What an ass. There's nothing wrong with liking CODs movement and mechanics.
And then you had Final Fantasy clones
Romancing Saga plays nothing like Final Fantasy.
If you try to, you'll get nowhere at all.
Heck RS1&3 are even nonlinear games unlike any FF games around!
Also that's from the game you claim is a FF clone
Even then target acquirement is pretty easy in this game so you'll be dead in the next volley most likely.
NinjaBoiX
Member
So he was apparently talking to an illiterate dumbass CoD fan. "I like it because it's what I'm used to" is a lane reason, especially when it's incredibly easy to say, "It's just really fast and smooth, and the aiming is really well weighted."OP said:
I think he just made this up to make a point.
Lame, baseless article. Sorry OP.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Wow, those are fighting words if I ever heard any...
Also smh at people claiming cod does need skill... If you want to play cod, fine, but at least know your place.
The game is entirely designed around no skill gap (as the pc gamer article says), randomness (that awful spawn system and spawn flipping and killstreaks) and around making the game LOOK like a quake /cs frag movie.
Seriously, the game is designed to make the player feel like he is the star in a fragmovie... entirely missing the point that frag movies impressed people because the things displayed in them were hard to do to a degree than 99.9 percent of the community can't do it.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
He's got a point with the skill gap of CoD online though. You don't have to be a skilled player to do well and be rewarded with tons of unlocks.
HitokiriNate85
Member
AHA-Lambda
Member
Well, it has to an extent; the series has been in a sales decline since Black Ops 1.
That's mostly due to the awful hit detection system, where bad players suddenly get a massive advantage due to connection quality. Because in 'fair' match, skilled players will run circles around less skilled players and that will just end up being complete annihilation once the killstreaks hit.
Really? I remember each game breaking the previous sales record, with Black Ops 2 now sitting at the top.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Just because one game releases more often then another doesn't change the fact that they're the same shit warmed over.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Oh yeah, I agree. But he blatantly just made that sound bite up, was my point. I agree that CoD isn't the best shooter out there, and in terms of feeling of movement and weight, DICE and Starbreeze have them all over.
But in terms of flat out going where you point the stick? I think CoD is pretty good in that regard. Of course, that pretty easy to code when, you are just a floating gun, but still.
What? CoD's hit detection is fantastic. It's one of the games strengths.
This, this, and this.
But this has always happened. Whenever something is wildly successful like COD was beginning with Modern Warfare, everyone else competing in the same genre stumbles over each other trying to emulate it. Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat had the same effect on the fighting game genre in the 90's.
The difference between this happening in previous gens and this one is that, since only big-budget games survive in retail now, only the safest games see the light of day (on consoles, anyway). So whereas before we would have a bunch of copycat games alongside a bunch of original IP's and sequels that weren't afraid to experiment, now we pretty much only have the copycats.
Of course, I am referring only to AAA game development. The indie scene is doing quite well in this regard.
Edit: I should clarify, however, that none of this is COD's fault. All COD ever did was succeed. I blame the rest of the industry for foolishly trying to duplicate its success by copying it's mechanics and structure.
They haven't ruined anything.A CoD player familiar with CoD and nothing else will prefer it to his game that way.You're going about it the wrong way crying voer beta testers that can't adopt to another game's style of play.No amount of "i'm not jealous" with not so ironic quotation marks will make you seem you aren't when you actually crying about not having that market like the way your game plays.
i'm not wrong. i played halo competitively, and it doesn't come close to a game like quake. it takes much more work and time to get good at quake than halo because it just has more depth, meaning there are more factors that separate low skill players from top players
FPS games are like pop music. 16-18 year olds decide what is relevent and successful and there isn't shit you can do about it.
Also, the same lesson today applies as it did a decade ago. The closer to 'realism' you get, the further away from 'fun' you get. At least to the target demographic that consumes these games. The same kind of thing happened in the CS/DOD days, where clones came out that had more 'realistic' features and they did not compete, even though they were very well-made games/mods.
Also, the same lesson today applies as it did a decade ago. The closer to 'realism' you get, the further away from 'fun' you get. At least to the target demographic that consumes these games. The same kind of thing happened in the CS/DOD days, where clones came out that had more 'realistic' features and they did not compete, even though they were very well-made games/mods.
Yeah, no.
So much truth in this statement. No wonder the only time I enjoyed FPS games was during my teen years. I actually held some sway over how they played because I was voting with my wallet.
COD has become the staple of generic modern shooters. It got so big now every other company wants to try nothing new and original and instead copy call of duty
thus making it a cancer. Thus its ruining the FPS genre. Granted, it's not nearly as bad as it was a couple of years ago because everyone realized their COD copy would never sell more then 5 copies but it still holds true and it's not just genre specific. Because of the success of games like COD these companies would rather pump out sequel after sequel to cash in instead of trying something new and original. They want to created this incredibly bland hand holding game that appeals to the mass ADD market so they can cash in a trillion dollars every 11-12 months.
That's what GAF has told me over the years so i don't know.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
He should've kept it at the fact that a whole generation has grown accustomed to character movement that is very responsive and fluent, which is of course "unrealistic". They'll complain when you add weight to the player or complicate it with things like momentum and more stances. The new players just want to click in their stick and sprint to the other side of the map in ten seconds.
I don't know if it's the hit detection or the horrible net code but it is far from fantastic. Never have I had as many "But I was already around the corner on my screen!" as with CoD.