-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
CoD Black Ops |OT| Always Bet On Black
- Thread starter divisionbyzorro
- Start date
Hmm, think I'll just wait until I hit the first level of prestige rather than reset my profile (don't even think I can). Even got a shopping list typed up so I don't buy guns I won't ever use.
Ed: Anybody used the G11 with the variable scope? I'm thinking all of the shotguns and that as a wildcard.
Ed: Anybody used the G11 with the variable scope? I'm thinking all of the shotguns and that as a wildcard.
Actually, it's not that big of a stretch. Currently, the Grip Attachment does not impact Center Speed by the same value/factor for all guns. For example, Grip may increase Center Speed by +200 for Gun A but only +100 for Gun B. Again, this is already currently present in-game.Skilotonn said:
BigBlue1974
Member
Please let this one happen. I think I'll dance a jig if it happens.divisionbyzorro said:
mr_boo said:
I do recall little discrepancies like that here and there although it's not that frequent (like the ACOG increasing range on the Python, but that also kinda still makes sense, as a grip would probably have variances of ease to bring up to sights that vary with the size of the gun.
But we know that what they're trying to do is somehow make the AK74u w/ Grip less appealing to people using it so much, which is why they're targeting that gun's grip and that one alone, because it's the first and most of the of time the only go-to attachment for it.
Not saying you're wrong and I'm far far far aways from an AK74u expert, but from what I understand RF is the main bad guy with the AK74u and that most folks can run the AK74u with RF, without Grip. Again, I'm just spewing things out from what I read and I could be wrong.Skilotonn said:
I do know this though - from my current usage of the M60, an LMG riddled with recoil, I'm not completely sold that Grip is the go-to attachment. I've run the M60 grip-less and in my small sample space, I've been fine (1st game was something like 24-7, and yes I do know there are a lot of contributing external factors). Anyways, food for thought.
mr_boo said:
RF is good for even faster kills, and can also explain why some people get so mad at that gun as well, but it already has its own disadvantage of eating up ammo - I did experiment early in the first days with it myself, and even Warlord-ed it with RF + Grip, but in the end I just couldn't click with the gun and dropped it altogether for AR's like the AUG & Galil.
It probably doesn't matter if you're at killing range and don't spray for the grip on an M60 because it's a two-hit kill, so that's probably why it goes that well for you.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
Anyone know how long the buffs (juggernog, quick revive, etc.) in zombie mode last for?
buy teh haloz
Banned
They last until you get downed.vitaminwateryum said:
Stantron
Member
I agree with the RCXD needing a bigger hit box. It should also be affected by jammer equipment. And if the user dies while controlling it, it should automatically explode. If those are done, no need to nerf damage or blast radius.
Regarding Second Chance, they should definitely give the guy that put him down the kill. I'd be ok with making the revive time a little longer. Still allow unlimited revives, but maybe make it so that you can't gain additional KS after your first revive. Nah, never mind, that would be stupid.
Does anybody here actually use the Scout perk for their sniper class? I'm working on unlocking the pro version while using the PGS1+ACOG so it's a waste. Think I'll switch over to Slight of Hand or Hardened when I'm done.
Regarding Second Chance, they should definitely give the guy that put him down the kill. I'd be ok with making the revive time a little longer. Still allow unlimited revives, but maybe make it so that you can't gain additional KS after your first revive. Nah, never mind, that would be stupid.
Does anybody here actually use the Scout perk for their sniper class? I'm working on unlocking the pro version while using the PGS1+ACOG so it's a waste. Think I'll switch over to Slight of Hand or Hardened when I'm done.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
buy teh haloz said:
Ah, thanks.
TurboLibre
Member
I don't think they need to change it to one revive, just make it take a little longer each time. If you're in the clear and a ally is willing to put himself in danger, go for it. I just need those invincible frames in the falling animation to go away, or maybe have a slight delay to when the enemy can shoot.
I haven't really sniped since the last patch, but before I used Scout simply cause SoH and Hardened seemed marginal at best; in previous CODs, I never used Iron Lungs/Steady Aim. In any event, I can't recall the new sniper characteristics since the patch. But regarding Scout, it's easy to overlook the weapon swap bonus, which comes in handy when you swap out your pistol for a AR/LMG/SMG.Stantron said:
Stantron
Member
Once I unlock Scout Pro, I'll see if it allows me to quick swap to my RPG secondary, which will be useful in tight situations (in combination with flash + tactical mask promr_boo said:
). If the quick swap only applies to pistols, then I'll likely not use it.I'm leaning towards Hardened Pro because a bunch of times this happens... I shoot an enemy to the chest as he is shooting me with an assault rifle, yet when I watch the kill cam, the lag made it so that his shots jarred my aim, and so it shows my shot going way off course, basically robbing me of a kill. With hardened pro, hopefully this does not happen.
Speaking of lag, sometimes I'll get off three shots with the PGS1, yet the kill cam only shows one. So frustrating. But I love the thrill of getting that single head shot kill, especially from long range, so I keep at it.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Two guys were quickscoping in a domination match today. One went 2-20 and the other 5-15 with 1 cap each. In postgame they were talking about how they got a couple montage shots :lol :lol
It does not apply to pistols only.Stantron said:Once I unlock Scout Pro, I'll see if it allows me to quick swap to my RPG secondary, which will be useful in tight situations (in combination with flash + tactical mask pro
What the hell is going on?? Playing tonight and my framerate was running between 5 and 10 fps on 360. I've been having a great time with this game for the most part but tonight was utterly unplayable. Was playing with my brother and he wasn't having issues. I went into theater and the framerate was screwed there as well but when my brother watched the same film from my fileshare he didn't see a problem. Then I watched another film of mine from a few weeks ago and the framerate was screwed in that as well. Is my brand new slim 360 dying or did a recent backend update screw something up? Really frustrating.
TestOfTide
Banned
Does anyone else think that they need to add something to Marathon Pro, like faster vaulting and faster crouch/prone?
EDIT:
Shotguns negating second chance.....
EDIT:
AnEternalEnigma said:
Shotguns negating second chance.....
buy teh haloz
Banned
Yeah, if they do that I'll pretty much be completely fine with Second Chance.luoapp said:
luoapp said:
Yep. No need to dick with anything else. The shotgun thing makes sense though. I'm neutral on it since I don't use shotties.
The other stuff just seems like they are pandering to the complainers. BTW, I don't use SC. I also have never complained about the invulnerablility and I bet many on the forum were surprised to hear that it has existed in COD games for a while.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Man I miss Nuketown in Demolition. Now that you can only play it twice, people should be fine with it but the fucking thing never comes up!!
Freezie KO
Banned
Re: Second Chance
I think snipers should cancel it out as should shotguns. Vahn argues that snipers have precision. First, fix your damn hit detection, then we'll talk about how easy it is to get headshots. Second, Vahn condescendingly tells his audience to look up what "perk" means. A perk is an added value. When Second Chance allows a sniped opponent to fall behind cover and wait for 30 seconds for revival, it can be a complete cancellation of the sniper shot. The sniper has given up his position and is too far away to throw a concussion or whip out a pistol, unlike a shotgun user.
I also think they need to disallow knifing while falling. That's just ridiculous. And they need to change the assist/kill credit.
Re: Scout Pro
I love it. Swapping weapons is the primary reason I use it. But the extra breath really helps when you know someone is waiting behind cover and is getting ready to pop out. Sometimes you need that extra second of a steady shot before they pop out and you headshot them.
I think snipers should cancel it out as should shotguns. Vahn argues that snipers have precision. First, fix your damn hit detection, then we'll talk about how easy it is to get headshots. Second, Vahn condescendingly tells his audience to look up what "perk" means. A perk is an added value. When Second Chance allows a sniped opponent to fall behind cover and wait for 30 seconds for revival, it can be a complete cancellation of the sniper shot. The sniper has given up his position and is too far away to throw a concussion or whip out a pistol, unlike a shotgun user.
I also think they need to disallow knifing while falling. That's just ridiculous. And they need to change the assist/kill credit.
Re: Scout Pro
I love it. Swapping weapons is the primary reason I use it. But the extra breath really helps when you know someone is waiting behind cover and is getting ready to pop out. Sometimes you need that extra second of a steady shot before they pop out and you headshot them.
TestOfTide
Banned
However difficult it is to get a headshot with a sniper, I assure it is a lot harder with a shotgun (and useless because headshots don't give you a multiplyer with a shotgun whereas with a sniper you should already be aiming for the head anyway)Freezie KO said:
In fact, they probably doing the shotgun thing because of the annoyance it has been Olympia users.
If they are far enough away that you can't throw a grenade at them, then you are likely already taking the time to steady your crosshairs. It's not the end of the world if your L96 doesn't get to 0HK on everything besides the legs.
They said they were looking into the primary kills when falling into last stand, which means they probably going to do something that makes your attacks cancel when you get put last stand (like how in a normal gunfight the loser's bullets get cancelled). hopefully that means addressing knifing during the fall as well.
AK74u is not the problem with this game. The problem with the game is GHOST GHOST GHOST GHOST GHOST GHOST everywhere I fucking turn. The slow pace of black ops will eventually be its downfall if things keep going the way they are. Right now the game is very one dimensional. You'd think the removal of stopping power and jugg would add some variety to the game, but nothing in the 1st tier competes with ghost, and hacker is a must in the 3rd tier due to motion sensors/claymores. For the second tier do you think I'm gonna use anything but sleight of hand with all this second chance bullshit and shitty hit detection? Hell no. They need to nerf the fuck out of ghost and the motion sensor, otherwise the game will be unbearable a few months from now.
Freezie KO
Banned
TestOfTide said:
You should only be aiming for the head because of Second Chance. A chest shot with the bolt action is perfectly legitimate. Also, the lines of sight aren't great as it is for these maps. Most of my sniping hits people on the run. Then if they fall, my aim is completely off (bolt-action), and I have to steady another shot if I can even take that shot. Meanwhile, anyone nearby heard my loud ass gun and is running in with their noob famas and ak-74u. Whereas I had one shot to if I'm going to hit my target.
It's an ideal situation that you can steady your crosshairs for each longshot, but it's not reality. First off, there's the hit detection. Second, look at the sniping maps.
On Villa, there are two main posts - the villa itself and the small building facing it. On that map, yes, you should go for a headshot. But if you miss or it doesn't register as a headshot, in either building, the person falls behind cover. Kill, gone.
On Array, if your opponents aren't just camping the tower, you're hitting moving targets constantly. There aren't long, elevated lines of sight as with Villa. The lines of sight have hills and rocks and other crap. If they fall behind a rock or behind the crane or anything, you lose your kill. I get so many "revived victims" on this level, it's ridiculous.
On Launch, it's less of a problem because there's less stuff to fall behind given the lines of sight. Same with Jungle. But those are levels where it really hurts to give up your position because of the several routes to the spots. In a game based heavily on spraying your famas from the hip, they should reward the player that takes a single shot and downs the opponent.
And that's really it. I don't snipe on any other levels because Blops ain't a sniper's game. Also, Second Chance really hurts the sniper's game because the Second Chancer can just keep firing towards the sniper's position, sometimes quite accurately. If I risk giving up my position, it's pretty shitty that they get a chance to spot exactly where I am and let everyone know.
Edit: I'd love to post this on the official forums, btw, but the forums are as broken as the game's netcode.
Freezie KO
Banned
DRE Fei said:
I use Scavenger with my AK74u class, and Flak Jacket for a Tank class. I see a lot of people using Hardline. Lightweight is useless.
I use Marathon for my sniper class because it's more important for me to get places or flee places than to worry about creeping up on someone. Hacker is quite good though. Then again, obviously a lot of people are using Second Chance if Vahn feels the need to patch it soon.
buy teh haloz
Banned
Seriously? Ghost isn't even the most common blue perk, it's much rarer than Lightweight.DRE Fei said:
MarkMclovin
Member
DRE Fei said:
Ghost is the most powerful of the perks and I've said before, it should be in tier 2 and swapped with something shit, like scout. Also swap Flac Jacket with Warlord and that to me looks a lot more level.
buy teh haloz
Banned
Well, maybe you're right, I don't actually play TDM. It's definitely less prevalent in other playlists.DRE Fei said:
divisionbyzorro
Member
DRE Fei said:
Ghost is far from OP. You think that a measly 3-kill streak should grant you the ability to see the entire team? No way. If it also protected you against the Blackbird, we could talk, but the perk as it stands now is completely fine. And Hacker isn't necessarily the only valid third perk. Post-patch Ninja Pro is excellent. Marathon Pro is also fantastic, especially with an SMG and Steady Aim Pro. I haven't run Hacker since I got it Pro, and most of my main kits use Marathon.
Also, there is no way you should be allowed to combine Ghost with Hardline. Ghost is a perfectly fine blue perk. A few nitpicks with Second Chance aside, the perk balance is excellent in this game. If Ghost bothers you, pay more attention to your surroundings and don't rely on your minimap to get kills for you.
luoapp said:
They do need to do this, but they also need to deactivate weapon fire on drop (desperately) and have fire, shotguns, and semtex sticks bypass second chance (the last one may already be true; I don't know since I always use frags). This isn't just to nerf Second Chance, but to reward players who get kills with inferior weapons (flamethrower and shotguns) and to continue to reward precision (semtex sticks).
Freezie KO
Banned
As an avid Ghost user, the only thing I'd change is its invulnerability towards sentry guns. Air support, I understand. But just running by a sentry seems silly. Plus, the poor guns can use a buff. Also, I think the Wii version might be borked because I'm never killed by dogs when running a ghost class. I don't have enough data to definitively say this one way or the other.
Other than that, I think Ghost is fair. It's a good trade off for its main competitor Flak Jacket. Scavenger can be wicked with Warlord (and Tac Mask!) I don't like Hardline, but enough people do.
Another comment Re: Second Chance. I totally get why they're going to switch the Kill/Assist points on SC. My only wonder is if this actually discourages "teamwork." The way it is now, your greed in wanting the kill actually promotes teamwork by ganging up on Second Chancers and getting them out of the game as fast as possible. If they change it, I don't know if people are going to make it their duty just for that assist. The problem there is that the Second Chance user might have a better chance of revival because the CoD Killstreak Principle Of Greed says that you probably don't want to reveal your position just for some worthless assist points. Just a thought.
Other than that, I think Ghost is fair. It's a good trade off for its main competitor Flak Jacket. Scavenger can be wicked with Warlord (and Tac Mask!) I don't like Hardline, but enough people do.
Another comment Re: Second Chance. I totally get why they're going to switch the Kill/Assist points on SC. My only wonder is if this actually discourages "teamwork." The way it is now, your greed in wanting the kill actually promotes teamwork by ganging up on Second Chancers and getting them out of the game as fast as possible. If they change it, I don't know if people are going to make it their duty just for that assist. The problem there is that the Second Chance user might have a better chance of revival because the CoD Killstreak Principle Of Greed says that you probably don't want to reveal your position just for some worthless assist points. Just a thought.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Freezie KO said:
I've thought about this, but I'd be willing to make that sacrifice.
TestOfTide
Banned
Scavenger for getting lots of kills with your main.DRE Fei said:
Flak Jacket is pretty damn useful against a lot.
Hardline definitely needs an added pro bonus. Not sure what that bonus would be though
[/quote]and hacker is a must in the 3rd tier due to motion sensors/claymores. They need to nerf the fuck out of ghost and the motion sensor, otherwise the game will be unbearable a few months from now.[/QUOTE]
Don't run into rooms or around corners. The only green perks that suck or marathon pro and ninja pro.
That's the price you pay for using a gun with the largest OHK hitbox. If you want to be able to take a second shot more quickly, that's what the 3 other sniper rifles are for.Freezie KO said:
And if you don't want people to trace your gunshot so easily, you can use one of the 3 semi-auto sniper rifles with a silencer (no point in using the silencer on the bolt action).
Let me rephrase it and ask what the point of using the other three sniper rifles should be. And if they can "accurately" fire towards where you are then you can definitely at least try and go for penetration shot.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Fuck the next COD developer that doesn't have the balls to remove the damn thing. Ugh.
Freezie KO
Banned
TestOfTide said:
Well, yes. Chambering my second shot is the price I pay for using a gun with the largest OHK hitbox. The problem with Second Chance is that I am actually landing my One Hit Kill in my One Hit Kill hitbox, and I'm being rewarded with my target falling behind cover.
Again, you are correct about the risks I'm taking when choosing my class.
Should I miss my shot, it's perfectly reasonable that I should have to balance the risk/reward of taking another shot with my position revealed.
The point of the other three sniper rifles is: (1) If I think I'm going to miss my shot, I can take another one quickly. (2) Silencers, as you said. (3) Semi-auto is better for actual mid-range gun battles, assuming quickscoping stays nerfed. (4) More ammo capacity.
The problem with the L96 and Second Chance is that I'm willing to give away my position, my reload speed, and even the advantages of a semi-automatic. The reason I'm willing to give all this away in exchange for a slightly larger hitbox is because I have (marginal) confidence that I'm not going to miss my shot.
The problem is when I don't miss my shot, but the Second Chance user can have advantages ranging from not dying at all from my OHK to giving away my position to counter-sniping me with a pistol. Hey, if I miss my shot or hit the leg or lower arm, then my bad. I probably should've been using a semi-auto sniper, maybe silenced. Then I could've gotten the extra shot(s). But if I hit my one shot and blow a hole through his chest, no way. The SC user should be down and out.
Also, let's say I do hit the leg or miss the first OHK shot, and I'm fortunate enough to take a second shot and hit it. Okay, so I kill someone with 2 bullets. That's what? 10% of my ammo capacity with the L96. Another reason to use the other snipers. But with the L96, Second Chance ups that to 3 bullets if I want to finish the guy off. It imbalances the gun.
Treyarch already acknowledges that certain weapons, specifically weapons where it's slow to take your second shot (i.e. Olympia or Stakeout), are not balanced to go against SC. It shouldn't be a far stretch from there to acknowledge that SC burns weapons that take one slow shot at a time.
I do. On Villa, I have great success with this. On Array, there's no shooting through boulders. Especially because I'm using my specialty perk Scout instead of Hardened, because my weapon, unlike all others, has sway. Anyway, when they counter snipe with their super-accurate pistol, you're looking more at levels like Launch or Jungle. And god forbid they hit you, your scope is going to fly all over the place with DVK.
I really don't have a problem with SC users when I'm running with an AK74 or even with my standard M16 class, (except for knife-falling). But when sniping, particularly with the bolt action, I find it imbalanced to the weapon.
Edit: And Cracked, one of my favorites. Always forget about it. Sometimes good for penetration, bad for guys falling behind cover and crawling to revival.
Mr Sandman
Banned
I wish it was slow paced. I play Search and it seems every game there's always one+ asshole(s) that rushes into our spawn (coming behind us) within the first 10-15 seconds. Using LW+M.DRE Fei said:
The unlimited revives/revive time/etc is not a problem with SC, no one revives. It's the invincible frames (like he said, it's too long) and kill thieves.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Mr Sandman said:
Invincible frames aren't the problem. The problem is that the bullets they fired while standing are still active while they fall without being able to take damage. As Vahn said - without invincible frames the perk is a joke. I think the current 0.5 timeframe makes sense, but only if they can't damage me while they fall (because they wouldn't have been able to damage me if they had been using any perk other than second chance)
PalaceBrother
Member
divisionbyzorro said:
Wouldn't flipping the kill/assist resolve this though? You may get killed as your target goes down, but if he remains unrevived you'll get the kill.
divisionbyzorro said:
I think the largest problem with the invincible period is on non-automatic weapons. Automatic weapons, you just keep firing until they're dead. Simple. With something like the M16 or the G11 (or shotguns probably, which I don't use), if you "waste" your burst or shot during that invulnerability period, they have a much higher chance of actually killing you before you can kill them.
divisionbyzorro
Member
PalaceBrother said:
That only works in a world without killstreak rewards.
tsigo said:
Most guns outside of snipers can deal with it. The only time it's gonna get you killed is if you wasted your last bullet and now have to reload (at which point you should run around a corner and toss a tactical grenade behind you). You can adapt and work around the invincibility, but not if you've been unfairly wounded by his magic bullets.