Support NeoGAF

[maomaoIYP]

I decided that today I was going to let the contracts decide what my classes were going to be. That was fine until I got to "40 kills with an infared scope." I tried the M16 and went waaaay negative. I tried the M60 and did a little better, but still negative. Finally, the contract is about to expire, so I just throw it on the Commando and don't even pay attention to what I'm doing when I ADS (basically, I just followed the enemy with hipfire and used my instincts when ADSing). And I completed the contract - barely. Easily the worst attachment in the game; why the game even lets you put it on assault rifles is beyond me.

Since I didn't prestige because of the pro perks, playing for contracts has pretty much kept me playing. I've a total of 9 days of playing time and I've done 1000+ contracts while only failing 20. Naturally I don't do every contract that comes up, I tend to stick to the ones for ARs and the occasional SMG/shotgun contract. The ones that I find absolutely impossible are the 50/75 kills with a sniper rifle.

 

[spiderman123]

He had to extend the timer for more effective boosting.

wonder if anyone reported it ?!

 

[Xux]

wonder if anyone reported it ?!

Vahn seems pretty upset about it:

http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=442788

 

[kuYuri]

Here's the video where the creator proves it's fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbc6-bGxN0M

 

[aku:jiki]

Aw, I'm sad the video was proved fake before I could even watch it! But, yeah, 1-300-whatever is bullshit. That can't happen in Demo without boosting. Even if you do nothing but spawn-trap and even if the entire enemy team is idle, the spawns move too much and time keeps ticking. No way can you get 500 kills without some coordination. No way in hell.

Edit: Oh! Watching now - I can see from just the loading screen and the annotation what they're doing. Havana seriously needs to be removed from the Demo playlist. They removed Nuketown but not Havana, which is just braindead. Nuketown worked fine in Demo, Havana doesn't work for shit.

Demolition is an awful gametype anyways. I didn't like it in MW2 and it's not any better here. They just need to remove the playlist and no one would care. Everyone who doesn't give a shit about spawn whoring wouldn't care at all.

Eh. You should stop talking shit and making decisions for other people. Many of us love Demo - it has more players in it than several other playlists - and far from the majority bother with spawn-trapping.

There are 12 players in any given match of Demo, and at max there's 1-2 spawn rapists in each match. You do the math. Sometimes there's a whole clan of asshats who do nothing but spawn-trap, but that's rare and there's a simple solution for it - just quit.

(Or bust out your tactical insertion kit, slowly work your way out of their spawn lock, sneak behind them and watch them lose their goddamn minds over the fact that someone's actually fighting back. It's very satisfying to get an entire clan to rage quit by yourself!)

 

[vatstep]

Here's the video where the creator proves it's fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbc6-bGxN0M

Haha, nice. One of the best things about this game is that if you talk shit or post a video you can't back up, anyone can look up your stats/history and call you out on it.

 

[aku:jiki]

Vahn seems pretty upset about it:

http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=442788

Is he being serious? Nothing "catastrophic" broke in the spawn system or whatever, Havana is always like this!

It's the horrible design of the spawns, not a freak-out bug or glitch. Vahn seriously needs to get over himself and start understanding that, yes, the actual design can be the cause of the problem. It seems to me that he has never once admitted this, and it's always some excuse about how "it can't be done" (so how do other games do it?) or that it's a glitch that's extremely rare and shouldn't be spoken of.

For the record, I tweeted them about this exact problem, in the way Vahn wants - respectfully and with proper grammar - asking them if there's anything they can do to counter spawn-trapping in Demo. I received 0 response.

 

[spiderman123]

Here's the video where the creator proves it's fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbc6-bGxN0M

pathetic, seriously fucking pathetic. This is why I WILL NEVER!!! trust the stat system in COD. You can't really tell whose legit. Boosters and Dashborders. The Spawning system in the game needs to be fixed as well.

 

[aku:jiki]

The Spawning system in the game needs to be fixed as well.

I watched the videos now and the video does not show the way the spawn system normally behaves - I've never seen anything like the part where he just sits in one spots and knives constantly. Honestly didn't think that was possible, and it's certainly not possible during normal play.

The thing with the video and what these guys are really doing, is that they've studied the shit out of the map and learned exactly where they can camp to lock down the spawn and make it immobile. They have one guy standing here, one there, one there, etc, and that means that the game must spawn the enemies in the only remaining spots.

Basically, this video can only happen through relentless cheating.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I watched the videos now and the video does not show the way the spawn system normally behaves - I've never seen anything like the part where he just sits in one spots and knives constantly. Honestly didn't think that was possible, and it's certainly not possible during normal play.

The thing with the video and what these guys are really doing, is that they've studied the shit out of the map and learned exactly where they can camp to lock down the spawn and make it immobile. They have one guy standing here, one there, one there, etc, and that means that the game must spawn the enemies in the only remaining spots.

Basically, this video can only happen through relentless cheating.

But that's why a game mode with static spawns is not a good game mode. I remember playing Goldeneye back in the day, and my best friend had memorized the spawns on a couple of the maps to where he could be on top of you before you even spawned. If the game can't figure out that you're spawning into death and opt to spawn you elsewhere, don't play the game! I honestly can't figure out how to fix this; if a game mode is deliberately opting to restrict its spawns to one corner of the map, this sort of thing is nearly inevitable.

And I think Vahn's response was fairly measured and appropriate. He basically said his usual spiel about how he has no respect for posters who talk shit about Treyarch constantly (for an example, read a typical VALKYRAY post), but he appreciated the way that the video creator presented this particular video. He used the word "embarassing" to describe the video - and they should be embarassed! This situation is really bad for them; someone completely exposed the spawn system in that mode (on that map at least). Vahn (as usual) could stand to have thicker skin, but he's not wrong to block/ignore trolls and continue to ask for mature dialogue. It's just a shame that the trolls are more numerous and more vocal than the reasonable ones, and the valid conversation gets drowned out.

That said, I wouldn't call this cheating. It's certainly cheap and unsportsmanlike, but someone who abuses this isn't cheating - they're just using the system they were given. It's Treyarchs responsibility to fix, not the community's responsibility to stop doing.

 

[aku:jiki]

But that's why a game mode with static spawns is not a good game mode.

In this specific case, it's not the mode, it's the map. Like I posted earlier, you will not see any videos like this on any other map. Havana is the problem here, not the spawn system or Demolition itself.

The problem is basically that Havana is just a big corridor (a fancy corridor, but still a corridor), and they put the spawns at the very end of the corridor. Of course the other team can just post up in the middle of the corridor and stop the other team from reaching the other end - it's a corridor! I know you know what I mean by this, dvb - I remember your hate for the spawn-trapping on Highrise. Same logic and corridor-type level design as Havana.

That said, I wouldn't call this cheating.

Then you need to watch the proof video! Some guy found another match where they're doing the exact same thing, and three people on the losing team are the same as in the match they posted.

It's completely cheating, and like I posted above, can't happen in normal play.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Yeah that thing wreaks of boosting

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Then you need to watch the proof video! Some guy found another match where they're doing the exact same thing, and three people on the losing team are the same as in the match they posted.

It's completely cheating, and like I posted above, can't happen in normal play.

Let me rephrase - I'm not saying that they weren't boosting in this particular video, but I feel like they were doing it to prove a point. A team who did this in normal match play wouldn't be cheating, just abusive.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

pathetic, seriously fucking pathetic. This is why I WILL NEVER!!! trust the stat system in COD. You can't really tell whose legit. Boosters and Dashborders. The Spawning system in the game needs to be fixed as well.

You can, in most cases. Even if someone dashboards, the game they dashboarded in is still saved in their Recent Games list, so if anyone's got a ridiculously high kd, you can always just check that to see if they are boosting.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Or if you get put into a lobby with people like that just make them dashboard.

Last week I had my first challenging match in a while. We only won by like thirty, the other team had a party of 4 all with 2+ kd and 4+ win ratios. First full party we've played that was legit. After the loss the silence was magical. The only words before they backed out was "well that guy with only two caps didn't help" talking about their random teammate.

 

[aku:jiki]

Let me rephrase - I'm not saying that they weren't boosting in this particular video, but I feel like they were doing it to prove a point. A team who did this in normal match play wouldn't be cheating, just abusive.

But the point is that this can't happen in normal play. It can only happen if the enemy team is basically completely complacent.

Take this from someone who actually plays Demolition - you don't need to set up a boosting session, and practice it multiple times (watch the proof video, man!), to make the point that Havana is fucked up. You just need to record any match ever played on Havana. Again, it's the map, not the mode!

And since you guys are calling for the removal of my favorite mode, I feel I have to point out that the same is theoretically possible in Domination. Have your entire team put tac-insertions right by the magic points that make the spawns move, never cap their flag and never push past that magic point - voila, you get basically the same thing as in this video. Does Domination need to be removed now?

 

[BigBlue1974]

But the point is that this can't happen in normal play. It can only happen if the enemy team is basically completely complacent.

Take this from someone who actually plays Demolition - you don't need to set up a boosting session, and practice it multiple times (watch the proof video, man!), to make the point that Havana is fucked up. You just need to record any match ever played on Havana. Again, it's the map, not the mode!

And since you guys are calling for the removal of my favorite mode, I feel I have to point out that the same is theoretically possible in Domination. Have your entire team put tac-insertions right by the magic points that make the spawns move, never cap their flag and never push past that magic point - voila, you get basically the same thing as in this video. Does Domination need to be removed now?

I will agree with you on that one. I had a game just like that last week on Grid of all maps. I'd spawn and be getting shot almost instantly. Didn't back out either as I was playing with my clan buddies, but I would have for sure if I was just flying solo. It was pretty annoying because it had nothing really to do with my skill or lack thereof...if you spawn and are already being shot in the back, not a ton you can do about it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

And since you guys are calling for the removal of my favorite mode, I feel I have to point out that the same is theoretically possible in Domination. Have your entire team put tac-insertions right by the magic points that make the spawns move, never cap their flag and never push past that magic point - voila, you get basically the same thing as in this video. Does Domination need to be removed now?

But with coordination and a full team, it's not terribly hard to break a spawn trap in Domination. Smoke the chokepoints, flash the people camping your spot, have your entire team rush the same corridor, etc. Basic and solid tactics will break almost any spawn trap in Domination because of how far back the enemy has to sit to hold the spawns static and how many routes there are out of each spawn area. Once out, you send a couple of guys to cap the opposite flag (not Bravo) to put pressure on them and flip the spawn into where you started. At that point the game is opened up again.

Of course, the operative phrase is "coordination and a full team." You need at least 4 guys communicating to break a spawn trap in Domination. And generally if you have a team of 4 guys communicating, you're rarely going to get trapped like that in the first place in a random matchmaking game. More reason to ask for Mercenary objective playlists!

 

[aku:jiki]

But with coordination and a full team, it's not terribly hard to break a spawn trap in Domination.

But the same is true for Demolition. Even with maximum coordination, they would not be doing this shit to me and my team.

I'd be picking the least popular path out of our spawn, using as long way around as I need to, and moving methodically to take the 1-2 guys there out. Then I'd get behind their spawn and tac-insert there, and start flanking their spawn-trapping to take them out and free my team. I kill them and smash their tacs, and the spawn-lock will be completely gone and they'll have big trouble getting it back. This is very easily done on all maps but - you guessed it - Havana.

But, indeed, every mode should have a Merc mode!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

But the same is true for Demolition. Even with maximum coordination, they would not be doing this shit to me and my team.

I'd be picking the least popular path out of our spawn, using as long way around as I need to, and moving methodically to take the 1-2 guys there out. Then I'd get behind their spawn and tac-insert there, and start flanking their spawn-trapping to take them out and free my team. I kill them and smash their tacs, and the spawn-lock will be completely gone and they'll have big trouble getting it back. This is very easily done on all maps but - you guessed it - Havana.

I'll take your word for it, but seeing Demolition videos (on multiple maps) where people are literally spawning in your line of sight makes this hard to believe. But I only played Demolition for the Ninja/Flak Jacket challenges and haven't touched it since, so I guess I should defer to you here.

But, indeed, every mode should have a Merc mode!

Actually, Mercenary playlists really are an inelegant solution to the problem. I shouldn't have to deliberately choose to play a mercenary mode; if I go in as a lone wolf, I should automatically be paired up with lone wolves, right? Of course, as soon as I say this, other problems pop out at me. If solo players only get matched with solo players, the parties are going to have a hell of a time getting properly matched together. And what do you do with a party of five? Durr - playlist management is hard!

This is probably why Vahn is reticent to create a Mercenary Domination playlist, even though it's currently one of the most requested playlists. He's already tweeted that he's seriously considering a Mercenary Mosh Pit playlist, with Domination weighted heaviest, rather than a Mercenary Domination list, simply because he doesn't want to ruin the existing Domination playlist. And honestly, I'd be totally okay with a Mercenary Mosh Pit playlist!

 

[MarshMellow96]

Why does this fucking game always stall? 19-5 and it's frozen. Fucking hell.

 

[aku:jiki]

I'll take your word for it, but seeing Demolition videos (on multiple maps) where people are literally spawning in your line of sight makes this hard to believe. But I only played Demolition for the Ninja/Flak Jacket challenges and haven't touched it since, so I guess I should defer to you here.

I guess we can agree to this; it can happen in Demolition, and it's basically the only mode where it truly can, but it's not very common and you have to play like an asshole to achieve it. Thankfully, most people don't play like assholes!

And honestly, I'd be totally okay with a Mercenary Mosh Pit playlist!

Damn, those are good points I never considered - but all true, of course. With that in mind, I'd agree that Mosh Pit is probably the only solution. If it's weighted toward Dom with a decent mix of the others, that actually sounds like a pretty damn great playlist. I'm imagining it being populated mostly by people who just want to have a good time rocking some objectives - sounds like it could be my new favorite playlist!

(That last sentence - that's what Demolition was in MW2. When everyone was busy camping for nukes in Domination, Ground War and above all Sabotage, Demolition was the haven for people who just wanted to battle it out over an objective. That's...changed a bit. :/)

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Thankfully, most people don't play like assholes!

I beg to differ.

 

[Stallion Free]

Thankfully, most people don't play like assholes!

Nabs and I (though I am not as pro at this) bunny hop quite a bit on PC. Is that playing like an asshole? I'm curious to see what a consoler thinks.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

You can bunny hop on the pc? Lol how fucked up can that thing get.

 

[Stallion Free]

You can bunny hop on the pc? Lol how fucked up can that thing get.

Oh it's not bunny hopping in that you can string hops and build momentum, it's more like turn a corner/encounter a guy and hop throwing and killing him because he failed to adjust his aim. The responses to it are hilarious. I don't really see it in console skill vids and it made me wonder.

 

[buy teh haloz]

I've seen a bit of that on the consoles. Can be annoying when you aren't expecting it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Oh it's not bunny hopping in that you can string hops and build momentum, it's more like turn a corner/encounter a guy and hop throwing and killing him because he failed to adjust his aim. The responses to it are hilarious. I don't really see it in console skill vids and it made me wonder.

You don't see much of it because you have to take your thumb off of the stick to jump, thus losing aim. I've definitely seen it done, but not very often.

 

[Stallion Free]

You don't see much of it because you have to take your thumb off of the stick to jump, thus losing aim. I've definitely seen it done, but not very often.

Oh yeah I forgot about that.

 

[aku:jiki]

Oh it's not bunny hopping in that you can string hops and build momentum, it's more like turn a corner/encounter a guy and hop throwing and killing him because he failed to adjust his aim. The responses to it are hilarious. I don't really see it in console skill vids and it made me wonder.

What, you mean like jumping around a corner where you suspect someone is hiding? I do that all the time. For some reason, I do it extra often with shotguns and sniper rifles, and I'll kind of half-scope as I jump in case someone comes running into line of sight as I do it. Never got a kill doing it, but hey, some day I will!

I don't know what to tell you if you don't see jumping in console montages! Get glasses? That's not even sarcasm!

 

[Stallion Free]

What, you mean like jumping around a corner where you suspect someone is hiding? I do that all the time. For some reason, I do it extra often with shotguns and sniper rifles, and I'll kind of half-scope as I jump in case someone comes running into line of sight as I do it. Never got a kill doing it, but hey, some day I will!

I don't know what to tell you if you don't see jumping in console montages! Get glasses? That's not even sarcasm!

Jumping pretty much everytime you encounter someone? On PC it's super easy and it pretty much guarantees that you will get the kill.

 

[yoopoo]

How come no one uses the Stoner, its even much less used then the G11. Been using it last week and has great success with it. It has pretty good range, completely manageable kick-back, rate of fire is slower then Famas and higher than Commando/Galil..extended mags works amazingly well with it. I've completely given up using any ARs since I started using Stoner.

Oh and the new maps...worth buying?

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Or if you get put into a lobby with people like that just make them dashboard.

Last week I had my first challenging match in a while. We only won by like thirty, the other team had a party of 4 all with 2+ kd and 4+ win ratios. First full party we've played that was legit. After the loss the silence was magical. The only words before they backed out was "well that guy with only two caps didn't help" talking about their random teammate.

Fuck you're a hero! I assume this was with you alternate account?

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Boosting or not, that video proves the spawn system is still shattered. They could have easily done that if he wasn't firing his gun as soon as he spawned.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Oh it's not bunny hopping in that you can string hops and build momentum, it's more like turn a corner/encounter a guy and hop throwing and killing him because he failed to adjust his aim. The responses to it are hilarious. I don't really see it in console skill vids and it made me wonder.

I do it all the time, kids suck on consoles.

Boosting or not, that video proves the spawn system is still shattered. They could have easily done that if he wasn't firing his gun as soon as he spawned.

The real problem is that people now play to have good KD ratios, try and put a montage together, or get a good game for a commentary. No one wants to play to actually be good or win anymore. They just say "why try when my shitty team isn't going to help me?" Shitty excuses just to try and have a good KD.

 

[aku:jiki]

Jumping pretty much everytime you encounter someone? On PC it's super easy and it pretty much guarantees that you will get the kill.

Every time? Fuck that, that's like dropshotting.

Boosting or not, that video proves the spawn system is still shattered. They could have easily done that if he wasn't firing his gun as soon as he spawned.

You don't understand this discussion and should not make such assertive statements if you think the dying booster firing his gun was the operative tactic employed. Read some of my posts.

 

[eek5]

But, indeed, every mode should have a Merc mode!

You can join session into merc and it normally matches you on to the same team.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

My win streak has come to an end, at least I tried. Can't say the same about my team.

 

[MarshMellow96]

Buggy mess again tonight. Fucking hell. LOAD multi goddamnit.

 

[USD]

Finally got Ghost Pro. Someone dropped a Sentry Gun in the middle of the street on Havana while I was out of its forward range. Went prone and slowly pumped shots into it until it was dead. At least I won't have to do it again, screw Prestige mode.

 

[nomoment]

How come no one uses the Stoner, its even much less used then the G11. Been using it last week and has great success with it. It has pretty good range, completely manageable kick-back, rate of fire is slower then Famas and higher than Commando/Galil..extended mags works amazingly well with it. I've completely given up using any ARs since I started using Stoner.

Oh and the new maps...worth buying?

I personally can't stand the reduced movement speed of LMGs. The Stoner also goes through clips like a mofo!

 

[luoapp]

I personally can't stand the reduced movement speed of LMGs. The Stoner also goes through clips like a mofo!

LMGs are defensive weapons, should be used more like sniper rifles than SMGs.

 

[yoopoo]

I personally can't stand the reduced movement speed of LMGs. The Stoner also goes through clips like a mofo!

I increased the sensitivity to 3, Stoner now acts like a super AR - and doesn't sound like a pea shooter either.

 

[VALKYRAY]

Here's the video where the creator proves it's fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbc6-bGxN0M

lol, talking about 2hundred some pound virgin boosters, perhaps this guy ain't got nothing else to do with his life as well.

 

[spiderman123]

Haha omg man the kids on my team see a red dot and they go nuts. They gave this camper 22 kills and he didn't use a kill streak and he went 22-1

 

[XeroSauce]

I personally can't stand the reduced movement speed of LMGs. The Stoner also goes through clips like a mofo!

The thing with LMGs are Penetration (heh) and no damage dropoff. That's why optics work so well on LMGs, you nail 3 hits and they are down.

You gotta treat the big ladies like big ladies, otherwise, they spill everywhere and it's a huge mess.

 

[spiderman123]

Can someone explain the host system please. How is a host chosen because I think its flawed. It giving the people with the wal mart connection host.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Can someone explain the host system please. How is a host chosen because I think its flawed. It giving the people with the wal mart connection host.

It is awful, as soon as I get host the matches stop getting populated and everyone in my party lags like crazy. We have to back out and play matchmaking Russian roulette.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Can someone explain the host system please. How is a host chosen because I think its flawed. It giving the people with the wal mart connection host.

Whenever we're in a party with my girlfriend, the game gives her host 75% of the time. This is hilarious because she's on supreme budget Internet. This means the game actually starts and quickly realizes her connection is not even close to capable of hosting. So she gets booted out of the game for host migration. Three patches and this still happens. I mentioned it to Vahn on Twitter and got no response.

 

[kuYuri]

A 360 title update just went up. SHIVAPRO (spiderman123) even got kicked from a game, while I didn't. Weird.

Also Mercenary Moshpit went live.

LIVE FIXES


2/28/11 (Title Update 7)

Issues Addressed:
* • Matchmaking improvements to return higher quality results faster. This change includes settings that are tunable in the live environment, so tweaking may continue beyond initial release of this update.
* • The in-game store now hides DLC map packs that do not match the language of the player’s disc to decrease the possibility of users downloading the incorrect language version.
* • Calling in a Chopper Gunner immediately after getting shot down in a Gunship will no longer end the Chopper Gunner run prematurely. Required timing-specific button presses.
* • Split screen players are now able to change camera perspectives and cycle through players as a spectator.
* • Addressed an issue where the most recent match played in Zombies could overwrite the best match played on the leaderboard.
* • Improved Zombies lobbies to prevent players from erroneously receiving the error “Unable to join game session” under certain circumstances.
* • Addressed a number of community-discovered Zombies gameplay exploits.
* • Additional security feature updates.

Gameplay Tuning:
* • Additional sniper rifle tuning.