Support NeoGAF

[kuYuri]

Would anyone like to watch some of my vids on my File Share or recent games and give me feedback on my play?

GT is Strider2K99.

 

[buy teh haloz]

I'm continually amazed at how horrible half of the SMGs are.

So yesterday I picked up an Uzi contract and played around with the Uzi for the first time. Holy shit - that is an awful gun. The irons are perhaps the most obtrusive in the game, it's not particularly accurate, and it's not particularly powerful either. I never could find a good setup; I ended up settling on Rapid Fire + Grip with Warlord, but that was just the least-worst thing I could use. Has anyone here figured out a good way to use the Uzi?

Today I picked up the PM63 contract. Compared to the Uzi it's a dream, but it's still not a good weapon. At least the irons don't fill half the screen though! I'm currently using the Grip with Sleight of Hand - it could actually be a decent weapon if the clip wasn't criminally small. I tried using it with Hardline; I think I'm going to have to use Scavenger if I want to get any work at all done with it.

I know Treyarch overpowered the SMGs in World at War, but why did they have to neuter them so much in this game? The SMGs are a category where you can really introduce some fun variety, and while there certain is variety, half of it isn't at all viable.

If you're going to use the PM63 you might as well just use the MAC11 instead. It's better in pretty much every way.

 

[Magik]

I'm continually amazed at how horrible half of the SMGs are.

I know Treyarch overpowered the SMGs in World at War, but why did they have to neuter them so much in this game? The SMGs are a category where you can really introduce some fun variety, and while there certain is variety, half of it isn't at all viable.

Yeah, its surprising how terrible the SMGs are outside of the AK74u. Whats worse is their response was to nerf the AK74u rather than addressing the larger issue of the SMG class as a whole.

 

[TurboLibre]

Yeah, its surprising how terrible the SMGs are outside of the AK74u. Whats worse is their response was to nerf the AK74u rather than addressing the larger issue of the SMG class as a whole.

I've had some success with the Kapris and the MPL. Not as much as the AK, but I've still got the #1 spot a number of times with those guns.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

I'm continually amazed at how horrible half of the SMGs are.

So yesterday I picked up an Uzi contract and played around with the Uzi for the first time. Holy shit - that is an awful gun. The irons are perhaps the most obtrusive in the game, it's not particularly accurate, and it's not particularly powerful either. I never could find a good setup; I ended up settling on Rapid Fire + Grip with Warlord, but that was just the least-worst thing I could use. Has anyone here figured out a good way to use the Uzi?

Today I picked up the PM63 contract. Compared to the Uzi it's a dream, but it's still not a good weapon. At least the irons don't fill half the screen though! I'm currently using the Grip with Sleight of Hand - it could actually be a decent weapon if the clip wasn't criminally small. I tried using it with Hardline; I think I'm going to have to use Scavenger if I want to get any work at all done with it.

I know Treyarch overpowered the SMGs in World at War, but why did they have to neuter them so much in this game? The SMGs are a category where you can really introduce some fun variety, and while there certain is variety, half of it isn't at all viable.

Yeah, outside of the 74u and the MP5, it's a cesspool, but I think the MP5 is quite underrated. Have you put much time into it? The recoil is unpredictable, but for a run and gunner, hipfiring asshole like myself, it's easily the best weapon for my playstyle. I chuck on Double Tap and Sleight of Hand = chaos. It's very useful for those that know what they're doing.

 

[Nonelito]

"BLOPS Players"

Y U NO Capture flags in Domination?

PS - How can people just run by the flags without giving a crap about the outcome of the game?

Also, Y U NO use any other weapons than FAMAS?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yeah, outside of the 74u and the MP5, it's a cesspool, but I think the MP5 is quite underrated. Have you put much time into it? The recoil is unpredictable, but for a run and gunner, hipfiring asshole like myself, it's easily the best weapon for my playstyle. I chuck on Double Tap and Sleight of Hand = chaos. It's very useful for those that know what they're doing.

I usually put Extended Mags on the MP5, but yes - it's good too. It's tied with the Kiparis for second-best SMG in my book. The MAC-11 comes in a distant fourth; although I must confess that I haven't even touched the Spectre, so I can't comment on the entire category just yet.

But of course, as Xux said a number of pages back, I can just roll with an AUG or FAMAS, and I can beat most SMGs by hipfiring at close range. So why use an SMG? :/

 

[snacknuts]

I usually put Extended Mags on the MP5, but yes - it's good too. It's tied with the Kiparis for second-best SMG in my book. The MAC-11 comes in a distant fourth; although I must confess that I haven't even touched the Spectre, so I can't comment on the entire category just yet.

But of course, as Xux said a number of pages back, I can just roll with an AUG or FAMAS, and I can beat most SMGs by hipfiring at close range. So why use an SMG? :/

Because you run faster with pretty much any SMG than you do with any AR, right? That's the only reason I can think of.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Yeah, what Zesty said. Don't forget the ADS time is significantly faster too.

But yeah, the time differential is hardly a balancing factor. SMG's are definitely gimped.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Because you run faster with pretty much any SMG than you do with any AR, right? That's the only reason I can think of.

Sure, but I don't think that the difference is that significant.

I've actually been thinking a lot about how I would build the next Call of Duty game (playing back-seat game designer is fun!), and how you could make the different gun categories worth playing. I would break the Create-A-Class system into Classes and Sub-Classes, very much how Transformers WFC did it (and other games too, I'm sure). So you would start by picking a primary weapon class, such as an SMG, and then you would build a custom sub-class off of that. The perks, grenades, and equipment available would be dependent upon that primary weapon class that you chose. This would let you give certain perks only to certain classes; so, for example, Marathon (Unlimited Sprint) would only be given to SMGs and Shotguns, while Assault Rifle classes could get Extreme Conditioning (Longer Sprint). Now, not only would the SMG let you move faster because the weapon is lighter, but you can choose to run forever as well, if that's your thing.

It would make you think harder about your weapon choice. You would have to consider not only the weapon category, but the types of perks you could use. It would make perk balance easier, and give a little more flavor to the different weapons.

Meh - just a though.

 

[Xux]

The numbers just don't seem worth it, though; you run 1/19th faster with an SMG and ADS .05 seconds faster with some of them. You're trading mobility and being able to react faster for being able to kill better in every other situation but "OMG HE'S RIGHT ON TOP OF ME OUT OF NOWHERES" which is sort of ruined by Sleight of Hand and Steady Aim as well as their pro versions.

Haha, took me way too long to hit submit.

 

[aku:jiki]

The perks, grenades, and equipment available would be dependent upon that primary weapon class that you chose.

Hey, wait, they were supposed to do that in Black Ops! Certain combos of perks were supposed to be off-limits, like maybe Ghost and Ninja together and shit like that. I totally forgot about that.

Also vehicles. Not that I'm complaining there.

 

[Reckless Onion]

Sure, but I don't think that the difference is that significant.

I've actually been thinking a lot about how I would build the next Call of Duty game (playing back-seat game designer is fun!), and how you could make the different gun categories worth playing. I would break the Create-A-Class system into Classes and Sub-Classes, very much how Transformers WFC did it (and other games too, I'm sure). So you would start by picking a primary weapon class, such as an SMG, and then you would build a custom sub-class off of that. The perks, grenades, and equipment available would be dependent upon that primary weapon class that you chose. This would let you give certain perks only to certain classes; so, for example, Marathon (Unlimited Sprint) would only be given to SMGs and Shotguns, while Assault Rifle classes could get Extreme Conditioning (Longer Sprint). Now, not only would the SMG let you move faster because the weapon is lighter, but you can choose to run forever as well, if that's your thing.

It would make you think harder about your weapon choice. You would have to consider not only the weapon category, but the types of perks you could use. It would make perk balance easier, and give a little more flavor to the different weapons.

Meh - just a though.

I actually quit like that idea. That way they could limit some perk abuse to certain classes. Ghost only for snipers.

Apply for a job at Treyarch please.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Hey, wait, they were supposed to do that in Black Ops! Certain combos of perks were supposed to be off-limits, like maybe Ghost and Ninja together and shit like that. I totally forgot about that.

Also vehicles. Not that I'm complaining there.

Yeah, there was some rumour about how your third perk would be automatically assigned based on your choice of your first and second perk. That obviously didn't turn out.

I actually quit like that idea. That way they could limit some perk abuse to certain classes. Ghost only for snipers.

Apply for a job at Treyarch please.

Nah; they can take that idea for free

 

[GenericUser]

The perks, grenades, and equipment available would be dependent upon that primary weapon class that you chose.

i really dont see the benefit of this. It would only make the gameplay more predictable and more straightforward, because you will never see unusual combinations and the unusual playstyles that will come with it.

if someone wants to play with ghost on his smg class ... why not? Its his decision and if its suits his playstyle i think its absolutely legitimate.

i believe its part of the fun to discover which weapon/perk combinations work and which dont.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

i really dont see the benefit of this. It would only make the gameplay more predictable and more straightforward, because you will never see unusual combinations and the unusual playstyles that will come with it.

if someone wants to play with ghost on his smg class ... why not? Its his decision and if its suits his playstyle i think its absolutely legitimate.

i believe its part of the fun to discover which weapon/perk combinations work and which dont.

Quite the opposite: it would allow the designer to come up with more varied and interesting perks that they would otherwise have to throw away because it wouldn't be able to balance properly for all weapon classes. Take Juggernaut, for example. I personally wouldn't have any problem if a shotgun class could use Juggernaut (as long as it couldn't stack with Marathon or Ghost). It would be an alternative way to help shotgun users close the gap, but it's just annoying (and unnecessary) for other classes which are already deadly enough.

And for the record, I have no problem with Ghost being available to everybody (and in fact, it should - otherwise UAVs are too powerful at 3 kills). The game just needs to give you more motivation to use another perk. As much as I like the removal of Stopping Power, it did serve the purpose of keeping players from constantly running Cold Blooded in Modern Warfare 2.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Flak jacket is the best perk in the game, slightly ahead of soh.

 

[USD]

The Perk options in Black Ops aren't that compelling to me. The way the tiers are arranged, there aren't that many interesting choices. Most of my classes use the same perks.

 

[Disguises]

The Perk options in Black Ops aren't that compelling to me. The way the tiers are arranged, there aren't that many interesting choices. Most of my classes use the same perks.

I disagree. All of my classes have a different perk set-up (except my 2 sniper ones). Whereas in MW2 - I'd always use the same or similar classes. I think it's much more balanced.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The third tier is the least interesting by far. It's pretty much always just a choice between Hacker and Marathon in my book. But I switch up the first two tiers a lot.

 

[USD]

I disagree. All of my classes have a different perk set-up (except my 2 sniper ones). Whereas in MW2 - I'd always use the same or similar classes. I think it's much more balanced.

In MW2, my first perk was pretty much locked because I used One Man Army on as many classes as possible, but that perk alone lets me play with variety. Among all my classes, I used every Perk 2 except for Hardline. Perk 3 was between SitRep Pro and Ninja Pro.

The third tier is the least interesting by far. It's pretty much always just a choice between Hacker and Marathon in my book.

I use Ninja just to shut my character up. Otherwise I'd be using Hacker. Perk 1 I use Ghost Pro for all but one class. Perk 2 I use Warlord Pro so I can use sight + suppressor, and for the extra grenades.

 

[aku:jiki]

The third tier is the least interesting by far. It's pretty much always just a choice between Hacker and Marathon in my book.

Yup. I'm the same with the other tiers too.

1: Ghost or Scavenger and I really only ever put on Scavenger for variety.
2: Warlord or Sleight of Hand. The rest don't give anywhere near as much advantage. (Ok, one exception: Scout Pro rules on a sniper class.)

To each his own, but to me it just sounds crazy to claim BO has more variety than MW2.

I use Ninja just to shut my character up.

That's not helping you as much as you think. Hacker would help you a lot more in this game.

 

[USD]

That's not helping you as much as you think. Hacker would help you a lot more in this game.

The only real problem for me without Hacker is motion sensors, which are a significant problem. I have been using Hacker a bit more lately. I like being able to play by sound though, which is much easier with Ninja Pro.

I still think that Ninja Pro should also have invisibility to motion sensors.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yup. I'm the same with the other tiers too.

1: Ghost or Scavenger and I really only ever put on Scavenger for variety.
2: Warlord or Sleight of Hand. The rest don't give anywhere near as much advantage. (Ok, one exception: Scout Pro rules on a sniper class.)

To each his own, but to me it just sounds crazy to claim BO has more variety than MW2.

This is typically what I have available on my create-a-class screen:

• An SMG with Lightweight (or Scavenger, if the gun doesn't have much ammo) and Marathon. The second tier perk varies based on the gun; Steady Aim for the guns which aren't great down-sight, Sleight of Hand for the ones which are, and Warlord for the ones which need extra punch (i.e., Grip + RF or Extended Mags)
• An assault rifle or the Stoner with Extended Mags, Scavenger, Sleight of Hand (or Hardened, depending upon my mood), and Marathon.
• A silenced/dual mags assault rifle with Ghost, Warlord, and either Marathon or Hacker, depending upon my mood.
• An assault rifle with a noob tube, Flak Jacket, Sleight of Hand, and Marathon.
• An assault rifle with dual mags, Hardline, Sleight of Hand, and Marathon.
• And the random class, which currently has the Stakeout, with Lightweight, Hardened, and Marathon.

I guess the only perk slot I really mix it up with is the first; the second is more dictated by the gun I'm currently using, and the third tends to be Marathon in pretty much all situations.

Ninja is an absolutely must in Search, and almost worthless in every other mode. I just wish Marathon was actually Marathon. No way I'm playing CTF to try and get pro.

It only took me about three games to get the necessary flag caps, and that investment has repaid itself a hundred times over.

 

[Mileena]

Ninja is an absolutely must in Search, and almost worthless in every other mode. I just wish Marathon was actually Marathon. No way I'm playing CTF to try and get pro.

 

[Makoto]

No way I'm playing CTF to try and get pro.

Completely worth it. Getting Marathon Pro and having that edge in distance and time at the beginning of any match catches everyone on the opposing team off guard.

 

[Slizz]

Ninja is an absolutely must in Search, and almost worthless in every other mode. I just wish Marathon was actually Marathon. No way I'm playing CTF to try and get pro.

Totally worth it. You'll kick yourself for not having it sooner like I did. 10 Flag captures isn't all that hard either, probably take you 7-8 CTF matches. I'm having an awful time getting Flak Jacket Pro, nobody uses regular frags anymore and if they do they are cooking them, making it impossible to pick up and throw back.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'm having an awful time getting Flak Jacket Pro, nobody uses regular frags anymore and if they do they are cooking them, making it impossible to pick up and throw back.

That's the only perk I don't have Pro yet (aside from Second Chance, which I still haven't bought even with 100k CP in the bank - I'm a man of my word). It's such a pain, and I haven't forced myself to use it exclusively yet to finish up the challenge (I've been sitting at 2/5 throwbacks for a while now). Maybe I should do that here in the near future.

 

[Reckless Onion]

Join a buddy's FFA and tel 'm to trow some frags your way, did the trick for me.

I'm trying to find a decent SMG to rush with, and don't know about you guy's but i"m having great success with the MPL rapid fire. Perks scavenger pro, steady aim pro and marathon pro. It just rips trough everyone, lovin it!

Also on most off my other classes i run ninja, can't count the times it saved my ass. Since they tuned it a little and got a decent headset it really help allot!

 

[Bboy AJ]

Flak jacket is the best perk in the game, slightly ahead of soh.

Yep. It saves my ass at least five times a round.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Yep. It saves my ass at least five times a round.

I can see why it would be for Domination or Demolition, but it's useless for TDM or FFA.

 

[Mileena]

Flak Jacket is borderline broken. I've lived through like 3 claymores in hardcore SD. It also makes noob tubes and nades irrelevant. Basically it's fucking awesome, I've never made a single class without it.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Flak Jacket is borderline broken. I've lived through like 3 claymores in hardcore SD. It also makes noob tubes and nades irrelevant. Basically it's fucking awesome, I've never made a single class without it.

Does it protect from air support?

I still contend Ghost is the best perk in the game. I feel naked and vulnerable without it.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Totally worth it. You'll kick yourself for not having it sooner like I did. 10 Flag captures isn't all that hard either, probably take you 7-8 CTF matches. I'm having an awful time getting Flak Jacket Pro, nobody uses regular frags anymore and if they do they are cooking them, making it impossible to pick up and throw back.

15 captures, not 10.

 

[Slizz]

15 captures, not 10.

Ah yea, wierd I think its the only thing that you have to do 15 of in the game....

So instead of 7-8 games it'll take at least 10 games to get 15

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Ah yea, wierd I think its the only thing that you have to do 15 of in the game....

So instead of 7-8 games it'll take at least 10 games to get 15

Which is bullshit. 10 minimum, fully dependent on the shitability of your teammates. Sigh.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Which is bullshit. 10 minimum, fully dependent on the shitability of your teammates. Sigh.

Maybe I got lucky, but I did it in an hour or thereabouts. I built a Marathon-Lightweight and a Marathon-Ghost class with SMGs, both with Tactical Insertions. Killstreaks were 3-4-5. With a single-minded focus on grabbing flags, I was getting about 3 caps per match, and actually managed to get all 6 caps in one of the matches. That was a while ago, but I remember being pleasantly surprised at how easy it turned out to be.

 

[Slizz]

Maybe I got lucky, but I did it in an hour or thereabouts. I built a Marathon-Lightweight and a Marathon-Ghost class with SMGs, both with Tactical Insertions. Killstreaks were 3-4-5. With a single-minded focus on grabbing flags, I was getting about 3 caps per match, and actually managed to get all 6 caps in one of the matches. That was a while ago, but I remember being pleasantly surprised at how easy it turned out to be.

Most captures I got in 1 game while trying to get Marathon Pro was 4. Ghost Pro is necessary, everyone plays like an asshole in that mode lol. I used a silenced AR, Marathon and Hardened Pro as well. I stuck to the edges of the whatever map it was and then would grab the flag and work my way back on the opposite edge of where I came from.

 

[Conrad Link]

I love Jacket, wish I could rock it full time. But Ghost is just too powerful.

 

[Mileena]

Does it protect from air support?

I still contend Ghost is the best perk in the game. I feel naked and vulnerable without it.

I can see where you're coming from but FJ has saved my ass way too many times when I'm capping a point or HQ or planting a bomb. Also, I'm convinced like half the people that play don't even look at their UAV anyway, at least on PS3. I've had to watch way too many retards play in Search that completely ignore the radar.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I can see where you're coming from but FJ has saved my ass way too many times when I'm capping a point or HQ or planting a bomb. Also, I'm convinced like half the people that play don't even look at their UAV anyway, at least on PS3. I've had to watch way too many retards play in Search that completely ignore the radar.

This. So much this. I cry every time I watch my teammates get killed from behind or stabbed with a blackbird up.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

To me, it's situational. I typically start with a Hardline or Scavenger class as I gauge the relative skill levels of the teams. If I need to push the objective hard, I'll switch to Flak Jacket. If the enemy is putting up lots of Spy Planes, I'll switch to Ghost. But if things are going well, I'll stick with Hardline or Scavenger, depending upon the map and my mood at the time.

 

[aku:jiki]

Which is bullshit. 10 minimum, fully dependent on the shitability of your teammates. Sigh.

Not to mention the fact that it feels like most people are in CTF to get Marathon Pro. There's always like 3 teammates fighting to grab the flag, and they will gladly let you die so they can kill the enemy and get the cap, etc. You need a full team for it to be tolerable.

None of my friends like CTF nor do they really care about MPro, so I usually don't make them play it with me and go it alone when I do... Pain in the ass is what it is.

Also, I'm convinced like half the people that play don't even look at their UAV anyway, at least on PS3.

Definitely the other way around on 360. I'm a heavy flanker and if I try it without Ghost and they get a UAV up, three guys always come looking for me. It's like clockwork.

Sounds like I should get a PS3!

 

[Slizz]

Definitely the other way around on 360. I'm a heavy flanker and if I try it without Ghost and they get a UAV up, three guys always come looking for me. It's like clockwork.

Sounds like I should get a PS3!

Lol no way. I'd say only like 40% look at radar. I can't tell you how many times I'll run into a room with my teammates already in it and they open fire on me thinking I'm an enemy, thus giving away everyones position.

 

[Dabanton]

Yeah i need my Ghost and Ninja.

I love when the enemy UAV goes up as they won't be expecting me especially if my team are on the other side of the map.

I have noticed that people have calmed down on this game (360 version) the aggressive guys, racists and trolls seem to have cleared off i've had the game since launch and have hardly had any annoyances even the little kids have been ok.

Whats going on?

 

[Mileena]

Definitely the other way around on 360. I'm a heavy flanker and if I try it without Ghost and they get a UAV up, three guys always come looking for me. It's like clockwork.

Sounds like I should get a PS3!

Do you like terrible FPS and sub-HD resolution? Well then come on down!

 

[LowParry]

Yeah i need my Ghost and Ninja.

I love when the enemy UAV goes up as they won't be expecting me especially if my team are on the other side of the map.

I have noticed that people have calmed down on this game (360 version) the aggressive guys, racists and trolls seem to have cleared off i've had the game since launch and have hardly had any annoyances even the little kids have been ok.

Whats going on?

Ya know, that reminds me of a game I had last night. Me and my friend were playing Domination. Random 2 enter on our side, then another 4 team enters on theirs. First match we get destroyed all over the place. Next match we made a few adjustments to their style of play and won the next two matches. Compliments and GGs before they left (cause I guess they wanted to find more friendly players that like losing or something). I'd of though we'd get called out racist names and other crap on those two wins. But yeah, 360 players have been pretty calm these past few weeks.

 

[cameltoe]

Yeah i need my Ghost and Ninja.

I love when the enemy UAV goes up as they won't be expecting me especially if my team are on the other side of the map.

I have noticed that people have calmed down on this game (360 version) the aggressive guys, racists and trolls seem to have cleared off i've had the game since launch and have hardly had any annoyances even the little kids have been ok.

Whats going on?

Play S&D......they are there in full force!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I swear Treyarch deliberately wants me to stop caring about my W/L ratio. I've had two disconnects and four join-into-losses since I started playing two hours ago. I'm positive in terms of wins on my legit, start-to-finish matches today, but my W/L differential has still dropped overall...grr...

EDIT: ARGH. To say nothing of teammates who are complete MORONS. How can the enemy ninja plant the bomb when there are THREE of my teammates around there? Remind me to NEVER again play Demolition in Mosh Pit.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

I swear Treyarch deliberately wants me to stop caring about my W/L ratio. I've had two disconnects and four join-into-losses since I started playing two hours ago. I'm positive in terms of wins on my legit, start-to-finish matches today, but my W/L differential has still dropped overall...grr...

EDIT: ARGH. To say nothing of teammates who are complete MORONS. How can the enemy ninja plant the bomb when there are THREE of my teammates around there? Remind me to NEVER again play Demolition in Mosh Pit.

I wouldn't worry about it mate. You seem to be a lone-wolf like myself, and I'm long past losing hair over it. I'm at 1.6 at the moment. Whether's its host dropouts, spastic teammates or games I join halfway with an unassailable deficit, it's so hard to maintain a good W/L playing alone.

Either play FFA or don't let it get to you. ; )