divisionbyzorro
Member
Strider2K99 said:
I saw that. I'm hoping for Dem/Dom/HQ only in the Mosh Pit; S&D is painful with pubbies who aren't used to the altered flow of gameplay.
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CoD Black Ops |OT| Always Bet On Black
- Thread starter divisionbyzorro
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I saw that. I'm hoping for Dem/Dom/HQ only in the Mosh Pit; S&D is painful with pubbies who aren't used to the altered flow of gameplay.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
3ur4zn said:
How can you make a statement like that when you didn't even play the first two? Cod4 is what made the game more accessible.
I really can't believe some of you are claiming the game isn't getting worse... Some of these situations, man. Holy shit. I was taking out a guy who was climbing out a guy and I shot him with 5 clear hitmarkers as he was stuck in climbing, but he backed up and survived. Immediately and without healing at all, he climbs up again and takes 5 hits, backs up and survives. Again, he climbs up immediately, takes 5 hits, backs up and noobtubes me! 15 hitmarkers!
Like cuevas already posted: why should Black Ops be rewarded for using the CoD4 template? That doesn't make any sense.3ur4zn said:
Mr Sandman said:
That's the statement I disagree with. How can a game that already sacrifices what made the franchise popular in the first place blow the competition out of the water? That's why I really have to ask, well if not Black Ops, then who else? There was really no clear best multiplayer of 2010, so I can't disagree with some magazine's choice of Black Ops for best multiplayer.
divisionbyzorro
Member
vidal said:
Wait, what does Black Ops sacrifice that made the franchise popular? Are you talking about the technical issues on PC/PS3?
No, the issue here is if there was a multiplayer game released in 2010 that blew away Black Ops. A game that warrants anyone to challenge the credibility of a magazine if said magazine were to choose Black Ops as multiplayer game of the year. I'm saying there was no clear multiplayer of the year for 2010, they were all mediocre in many respects. If Gamer were to have chosen BC2 as multiplayer of the year for 2010, I wouldn't disagree but I wouldn't dare say it blew anything out of the water. Black Ops as well, doesn't blow anything out of the water. So what I'm saying is, don't get all pissy by saying, "Black Ops for multiplayer of the year? Does this [GAMING MAGAZINE] play games at all?" When the other nominees weren't at all pinnacles of innovation either.
Jack Scofield
Member
divisionbyzorro said:
A framerate that is, for all intents and purposes, locked in the previous three versions. A netcode that's miles worse than those in its predecessors. Basically technical issues out the ass.
I guess it's expected from the B-team, though.
Jack Scofield said:
Those points are untrue for the PC version.
Edit: In my case, I'd also say the part about technical issues "out the ass" was untrue as well but the loud minority of those who are experiencing issues will probably want to argue with me about it until sunrise.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Exactly. If people really valued those things they would play the game on PC.vidal said:
divisionbyzorro
Member
vidal said:
Now that I agree with - but I still don't understand your comment about Black Ops "sacrificing" what made the previous games great...?
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm going to reiterate a previous statement of mine:
TAKE S&D OUT OF THE MOSH PIT ROTATION!
I stop paying attention to the voting for one round, and I end up having to play S&D with a bunch of teammates who (minus one
were completely pants-on-head retarded when it comes to S&D. And it was on Nuketown no less! That game type is so radically different that the average player simply has no clue how to approach it, and the result is complete chaos. I've never seen it not be a blowout in the Mosh Pit playlist.
TAKE S&D OUT OF THE MOSH PIT ROTATION!
I stop paying attention to the voting for one round, and I end up having to play S&D with a bunch of teammates who (minus one
were completely pants-on-head retarded when it comes to S&D. And it was on Nuketown no less! That game type is so radically different that the average player simply has no clue how to approach it, and the result is complete chaos. I've never seen it not be a blowout in the Mosh Pit playlist.palpabl_purpura
Member
I'm remotely thinking this game up at a discounted price. How's the lag on PS3? Has it been fixed?
palpabl_purpura
Member
Magik said:Nope.
Thanks. It's a no go then.
divisionbyzorro
Member
vidal said:
Got it; going back and reading the thread of conversation again made it obvious what you were saying - I just missed it the first time. My bad!
spiderman123
Member
Alright boys lets start the dick measuring. Lets have a COD tournament.
divisionbyzorro
Member
spiderman123 said:
1v1, L96 and Tomahawk only, Nuketown.
And go!
divisionbyzorro
Member
aku:jiki said:Haha, I'd actually do that... Bring it, dvb! I will quickscope your face off!
Not if I'm host!
Okay, probably even if I was host
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Jack Scofield said:
Treyarch is a better multiplayer developer than IW. COD4 was a fluke. MW2 proved that. Also, are you playing on PS3? If you're on Xbox, you're either unlucky or exaggerating.
cuevas said:
Er, what? I've played every COD ever made. Admittedly, COD4 was when I really began investing my time, but I've played them all. I know you still hold COD2 up as the benchmark or whatever, but I think the franchise was revolutionized with COD4 and perfected with WaW.
akj said:
I don't believe you. I think you're exaggerating, like you always do. If true, that's frustrating as hell, but COD's been frustrating me since COD2, so your whining is pointless.
The franchise isn't getting worse, but stale. MW2 was a step-down from WaW, but BO is a step in the right direction, so there's no way you can say it's getting "worse". If you were to say the franchise is becoming dull and uninspired, I'd somewhat agree. However, that doesn't mean it's not fun, which is precisely why it's more popular than ever. Plus, you must remember, we are "hardcore" COD players, whether you like that stigma or not, and we've played it for years. Many, many people among those 6 million on Day 1 are first time, or casual players, and don't share our issues with the franchise. We are, no doubt, in the minority.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Um... if you played COD1/2 on PC on release you would know that COD4's excellence is no fluke.3ur4zn said:
On the other hand, where would Treyarch be without the COD4 "fluke"? Making shit like COD3?
divisionbyzorro
Member
Stallion Free said:
Agreed. The fact that MW2 panned out to be an exploit-filled mess that never got properly rebalanced after launch doesn't change the fact that IW is a talented developer (or at least was - who knows what the state of that development studio is these days). If they had given that game the support it deserved, it could have turned out to be the better game than Black Ops, but that wasn't the case.
And of course, if you followed development cycles, you might be willing to forgive Treyarch for the CoD3 shitbag - the fact that the game was built in 8 months and actually ran on systems is pretty impressive in my book. I still believe that Treyarch is being unfairly judged for that game when the next two titles they built were excellent entries into the series.
PalaceBrother
Member
divisionbyzorro said:
My only exposure to Treyarch has been THPS2 for the Dreamcast, and the multiplayer in Black Ops.
10/10. Would buy again.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Their next two titles were just reskinned and fixed up versions of IW's games though. If you can judge them for W@W and Blops, then it's only fair to judge them for 3 because that is probably the one game they had a little creative freedom on (multiplayer wise).divisionbyzorro said:
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Stallion Free said:
My experience with COD1 was on PC, COD2 was on Xbox. Like I said, COD4 was a brilliant, revolutionary game. WaW come along and refined it, added what needed to be added, and polished it to a impeccable degree. Then MW2 came along, which was an utter travesty of gaming imbalance, reeking of the "balls-to-the-wall" mentality that has polluted the big franchises this generation. BO's stripped down, balanced multiplayer is a step in in the right direction, but its SP, like MW2's, is almost entirely mediocre.
On the other hand, where would Treyarch be without the COD4 "fluke"? Making shit like COD3?[/QUOTE]
Not surprised you're uninformed. COD3 had an 8-month development cycle. It was rushed out to fill the gap between COD2 and the reveal of COD4. By comparison, COD4 was in development for more than 24 months.
It wasn't as bad as the hardcore regard it, but it was undeniably a step-down from COD2. But hey, when you've got Activision poking you with a stick and demanding you finish and release a game in 8 months, I'd almost excuse COD3's disappointments. Barely anyone fucking played it though, including many who decry it these days, so I don't hold the 'hardcore consensus' in much regard.
COD's graphics are so-so and don't compare to Battlefield's (er, no 3 anyone?) Black Ops is entertaining for sure, but constantly respawning AI makes it very annoying. If Activision want to court controversy with MW3, have the storyline around taking out Col Ghadaffi (and a flashback of the SAS storming the Iranian Embassay in 1981, which if I'm not mistaken, was supposed to be on Black Ops?) I still won't buy it, but it will be funny how the public will react.
DICE definitely have the edge with their forthcoming Battlefield and that Terminator style trailer (referring to the intermittent music BTW); it's impossible to say what Activision have planned.
DICE definitely have the edge with their forthcoming Battlefield and that Terminator style trailer (referring to the intermittent music BTW); it's impossible to say what Activision have planned.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
By the way, MW2 was and still is an unbalanced, exploited, glitch-filled cesspool, 16 months since release.
BO, by comparison, has been out for 4, and beside the prestige glitch, which has been almost eradicated entirely, it is balanced, exploit and glitch-free. I won't contest complaints of shitty netcode, because it seems a very subjective debate.
Bollocks! You don't have time to spend on "creative freedom" when deadline is 8 months.
This 'reskinning' stigma to largely bullshit, considering MP-wise, all COD's have since 2 have maintained the same style and general feel/interface. THEY'RE ALL FUCKING RESKINS. Considering WaW's SP was quite brilliant, and the fact Treyarch came along and added vehicles, brilliantly conceived maps, and a rock-solid multiplayer engine that was almost glitch and exploit free, the reskinning taunt is baseless IMO. As I've said before, the multiplayer component was built like a brick shithouse.
BO and WaW were no more a reskin than MW2 was for COD4, except for the fact Treyarch didn't fuck it up!
BO, by comparison, has been out for 4, and beside the prestige glitch, which has been almost eradicated entirely, it is balanced, exploit and glitch-free. I won't contest complaints of shitty netcode, because it seems a very subjective debate.
Stallion Free said:
Bollocks! You don't have time to spend on "creative freedom" when deadline is 8 months.
This 'reskinning' stigma to largely bullshit, considering MP-wise, all COD's have since 2 have maintained the same style and general feel/interface. THEY'RE ALL FUCKING RESKINS. Considering WaW's SP was quite brilliant, and the fact Treyarch came along and added vehicles, brilliantly conceived maps, and a rock-solid multiplayer engine that was almost glitch and exploit free, the reskinning taunt is baseless IMO. As I've said before, the multiplayer component was built like a brick shithouse.
BO and WaW were no more a reskin than MW2 was for COD4, except for the fact Treyarch didn't fuck it up!
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
You fail to address the quality of COD1/2. COD4 was no surprise because IW was built on pure talent swiped from 2015 who worked on Allied Assault which *shocker* also had god-tier map design.
And you still fail to point out where the talent is at Treyarch. All they have done is polish IW's work.
COD2 to COD4 was not a reskin. IW added a significant number of gameplay additions.
Vehicles had already done in United Offensive and they were dropped because they were complete shit. They were shit in W@W as well. Shocker.
And you still fail to point out where the talent is at Treyarch. All they have done is polish IW's work.
COD2 to COD4 was not a reskin. IW added a significant number of gameplay additions.
Vehicles had already done in United Offensive and they were dropped because they were complete shit. They were shit in W@W as well. Shocker.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The "reskin" argument is pointless. The multiplayer has been fundamentally the same since CoD4, regardless of which iteration you're talking about.
I don't think anyone would argue that the single player game is interesting at all. CoD4 is considered good simply because of certain memorable set pieces (
). But there's nothing interesting about actually playing it; it's just a linear sprint through a shooting gallery. It's mindless entertainment at best.
But I think that anyone expecting Battlefield 3 to set the world on fire is being overly optimistic. Call of Duty is riding a massive wave of popularity because it appeals to so many people; Battlefield is (and always has been) a niche game. That's not to say that it won't be excellent, but it's not going to be the game that steals the crown.
kaz2y5 said:
I don't think anyone would argue that the single player game is interesting at all. CoD4 is considered good simply because of certain memorable set pieces (
dying in a nuclear explosion, for example
But I think that anyone expecting Battlefield 3 to set the world on fire is being overly optimistic. Call of Duty is riding a massive wave of popularity because it appeals to so many people; Battlefield is (and always has been) a niche game. That's not to say that it won't be excellent, but it's not going to be the game that steals the crown.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
They make better maps, they 'get' how to engage with the community, they make rock-solid, tamper-proof games, and when glitches are found, they respond and fix them in a timely and efficient manner. (Except the WaW DLC lobby kicking thing, which wasn't a glitch, but an intentional, horrible idea.) Is that enough for you?
So did Treyarch with WaW, but you're not acceping that argument, so why does your perspective have any additional merit?
Vehicles were brilliant in WaW, and were as balanced as they possibly could be. You were probably one of the clowns who couldn't handle them. Tanks added an additional gameplay style to the multiplayer component, and forced players to rethink their strategy and approach maps in a different, more thoughtful way. They were simple to take down and fun to use. For someone decrying Treyarch unwillingness to change things up, I find your tank-hate ironic. Get your argument straight mate.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Changing things up by adding back in a shit feature from a previous installment? Ahahahahahaaha.3ur4zn said:
Good at engaging the community? Yeah for one platform, the 360 ahahahahahaha.
Better maps? Meh. Their best isn't any better than the best IW can put out.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Stallion Free said:
I think we can agree opinions on tanks are subjective. I think they were fantastic, you clearly don't. I mastered tanks though, so maybe that's why?
That's still one more than IW ever achieved! (Ahahahahahaha - does that make me more right?...)
Again, subjective. I felt WaW maps were the best in the COD series since 4. Out of interest, how much of WaW did you play?
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
1.) I got a 20+ killstreak in a tank one of the first times I used it. It was in some tiny ass map. It felt out of place and made no sense.3ur4zn said:
2.) No it doesn't it means they are both shit at engaging the community. Has Blops had it's severe spawning issues fixed yet?
3.) I played ~1 prestige worth?. I played all maps, up to the first DLC multiple times. I was not impressed.
divisionbyzorro
Member
There was one map where I hated the tank; I don't remember the name, but it was the one with the big church in the middle. Ugh.
I actually really enjoyed them on the other maps though.
I actually really enjoyed them on the other maps though.
buy teh haloz
Banned
Seelow was bigger.Strider2K99 said:
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Stallion Free said:
Considering tanks were only available on maps considered 'Large', I don't believe you. Tanks are only available on 4 maps, Roundhouse, Seelow, Outskirts and Downfall. Every single one of those maps is fucking huge. Roundhouse was the smallest tank map, and it was still as big as Array in BO.
No, that's what you said. Despite what you think, I reckon Treyarch's community support is really good.
Severe ones? Yes, completely. Spwans were balls in the week one. Since then, I have no complaints, other than on horribly, tiny Nuketown, but that's what the community likes in a map, apparently, so whatever.
What didn't you like about it? First DLC maps were shit, but Treyarch didn't make them, Raven did. The rest were much better.
Again, out of interest, what do you think of MW2? BO?
Kermit The Dog
Banned
buy teh haloz said:
Seelow, with a train line through the centre, atop a hill, is the biggest map, yeah. It's a rectangle, and very long. (Best map in a COD game, ever)
Outskirts is a destroyed village, with the church spire in the centre. It's a big square, and incredibly intricate and detailed.
Roundhouse is the train graveyard, with the turntable dome in the middle. Circular map.
Downfall is the narrow, very long map, incorporating the Reichstag at one end and shelled Nazi bunkers in the centre.
Tanks added to ever map.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
The map was Roundhouse and that map is not large enough for a tank. No way in hell.
I play the series on PC (only played CoD 3 on 360) and as far as I'm concerned, Treyarch might be worse than IW. Oh you guys have issues with performance on PC? LOLOL you aren't as important. I mean that was some clever community handling there.
Black Ops is significantly more fun than W@W to me and I find the maps to be better designed (for the most part) and more interesting to look at (W@W was yawn after fucking yawn here).
MW2 had some great maps and some shit maps. PC did dodge 90% of the exploits and I saw maybe 4 nukes total in 150 hours of play (hardcore on PC makes those damn near impossible). I have played more Blops than it at this point.
I play the series on PC (only played CoD 3 on 360) and as far as I'm concerned, Treyarch might be worse than IW. Oh you guys have issues with performance on PC? LOLOL you aren't as important. I mean that was some clever community handling there.
Black Ops is significantly more fun than W@W to me and I find the maps to be better designed (for the most part) and more interesting to look at (W@W was yawn after fucking yawn here).
MW2 had some great maps and some shit maps. PC did dodge 90% of the exploits and I saw maybe 4 nukes total in 150 hours of play (hardcore on PC makes those damn near impossible). I have played more Blops than it at this point.
See, I almost put that in the post because I knew you'd respond... That's the point - I exaggerate how frustrating things are so on, but I never exaggerate numbers or facts. I admit I didn't count the hitmarkers and it might've been 12 or even 10 rather than 15, but that's far above normal and lag shouldn't even give hitmarkers!3ur4zn said:
I have no agenda and no interest in making Black Ops sound worse than it is. It was the only game I looked forward to in 2010 - I'm disappointed, not trying to destroy the franchise or something.
This man knows what's up! Treyarch's THPS2 was the high point of that entire franchise. God damn that was a good port.PalaceBrother said:
Now who's exaggerating like crazy?3ur4zn said:
People noobtube and quickscope, yes, but it's not a fucking "cesspool." There's hardly even any tac-knifers anymore, and nobody bothers running around with akimbo G18's or Rangers or anything else that was popular when the game was still new. It's mostly just ACR's, noobtubes, Intervention's and UMP's nowadays.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
You must know by now you have bad taste in maps.3ur4zn said:
So they revolutionized the series with cod4 but the bad :UO remix where they took huge steps back in WaW they perfected it? Really?
divisionbyzorro
Member
aku:jiki said:
I take it the game didn't appear in your recent games? Can you make a theater clip of it? Or is this one of those cases where what you saw in game was radically different than what showed up in theater?
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
No dude, you clearly just don't understand good map design. W@W 4 life.cuevas said:
Jack Scofield
Member
Guys, Treyarch is obviously the better developer. Black Ops isn't quite as unbalanced as the three games before it, so that's one reason why they're better (even though you'd think they could manage to balance a game after three iterations...). Also, nevermind how fucked up the PC and PS3 versions are. I have a 360, so I don't care. Finally, isn't it glorious once you finally play one of these incredibly balanced matches? Of course, the netcode is worst than it's ever been before. It's terrible and almost renders the game unplayable, but it's the thought that counts, right guys?
Guys?
Guys?
divisionbyzorro
Member
So on a different note (because it's topical), has anyone here seen what Homefront is doing in the realm of killstreaks? It's remarkably similar to systems that I've proposed for CoD before (i.e., the "momentum system"), and looks like a really good method for rewarding in-game actions. I also like the way they use it to balance out the anti-tank and anti-air launchers. I haven't actually picked it up yet, but from what I've seen and heard, the game seems to do some really interesting things that I think the next CoD would do well to crib from. Have any of you guys tried it yet? If so - what did you think?
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Roundhouse is plenty big enough for tanks. It's a huge map, and the tanks can only venture around the centre dome, making it easy for anyone to take them out. I honestly doubt you've put much time into it at all.
In terms of the 'look' of WaW: :lol We're clearly never going to agree, so I'll stop repying, but that's the most ignorant thing you've said so far.
aku:jiki said:
Like Division said, is it still in your Recent Games list? I'd love to see it. I do agree that BO has netcode issues, and several times I've got 4 or 5 hitmarkers and thought WTF, but they're still rarities, and each COD game has its frustrating aspects.
Just quietly, that's your first problem. ONLY game? Red Dead, at least? Jesus.
Yes, but all those exploits are still exploitable IF you have the desire to do so. If I want to commando-lunge with a TAC knife and teleport to an enemy, I can do that. My point is, there's no comparable exploits in BO.
CEAVUS said:
Okay, so you've previously claimed you played WaW for around a 25 hours, or a day's worth of playing time, and said those hours were enough for you to conclude the game was bad.
Why then, does your Live profile show you've never even placed WaW in your disk-tray? You've evidently played MW2, BO, even COD4, but no sign of WaW? Hmmm? Your Live profile shows you've been a member for 3 years, and WaW is less than 2.5 years old. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you. You're a liar, and have no business commenting on WaW's maps when you evidently have never played them.
The first bit is my claim, the second is yours. Nice try though, fraud. :lol
Kermit The Dog
Banned
divisionbyzorro said:
Yeah, I've been lurking the Homefront thread and some of the ideas sound interesting. I was actually having a think about your 'momentum' system idea you described whilst playing last night, and I think it has merit. Sometimes, occasionally, you get those games where you're getting trounced, but then begin to slowly crawl your way back. It's fucking exhilarating when you reverse a deficit into a win. A system which catered for strong, retaliatory teamwork would really inject some life into the COD formula.
I think you're onto something there!
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