clarky
Gold Member
Hope the Pro you get comes with 2tb of undeletable Concord CGI.
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Colin Moriarty doubles down on his 400 million claim...
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I'll take any excuse to give Sony more of my money
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Did Colin actually provide any detail for why this guy would be in a position to know the budget who contacted him?
I’m assuming he vetted that person works there but I’m not watching a 5 hour video to get any more detail than that.
Without any corroboration though it really is just one sources word we are supposed to take as gospel. A source who specifically reached out to Colin with a serious bone to pick about the company.
I’m assuming he vetted that person works there but I’m not watching a 5 hour video to get any more detail than that.
Without any corroboration though it really is just one sources word we are supposed to take as gospel. A source who specifically reached out to Colin with a serious bone to pick about the company.
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Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Colin is a huge asshole, but being front Long Island there was little chance that he wouldn't be. I don't know if he is lying here or if his source is, but running with a single source without corroboration is bad practice, even not being a journalist anymore.
He could easily get a real source who feeds him shit with the express purpose of making him look like a fool and he can't out that source if he wants anyone to talk to him ever again.
Lesson would be to not run with single sources making outlandish claims.
He could easily get a real source who feeds him shit with the express purpose of making him look like a fool and he can't out that source if he wants anyone to talk to him ever again.
Lesson would be to not run with single sources making outlandish claims.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If that's the case, you should be able to show me 10+ games with these "purple haired black girl bosses" leading games these days.
It's not about what Colin said at this point. It's more about what his source said. Why do we need to have evidence his source is wrong? We don't even know who his source is
.
HogIsland
Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Exactly this! And Colin said $200 million was spent BEFORE Sony bought the company! How in the world did that developer get access to that much capital in the first place? How can we gamers believe that the developer of Concord (that never made a game before) got access to $200 million?
Wildebeest
Member
People lying often have a tell in that they smile and laugh too much, like they can't believe what they are saying and how much they are getting away with.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
ProbablyMonsters had that funding for multiple studios and projects. Firewalk was a small portion of their overall studio efforts
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Doesn’t look like they have given they still want to stick with GaaS moving forward.
jakinov
Member
I don’t think he’s lying but the problem is you can have a “reliable” source that’s not lying either but it’s easy to misconstrue or even mishear facts and also easy to leave out a lot of important context.
The number sounds far fetch and he did not specify much about who he talked to so it’s reasonable to be skeptical. If you look at other industries journalist who report a scoop will often tell you the broad role of the sources or at least tell you that they are someone who would be privy or close to the details. Colin IIRC just said it was someone who worked on the game. Being a game dev or artist you might hear and be told things but you aren’t always told everything and can’t always access the real details. They also aren’t always that business savvy and might be irresponsibly sharing information.
There are factual statements that can be ambiguous like if I said “this game made a million bucks already” that can be interpreted as revenue or as profit. The “$200M to fix concord in a year” could be somewhat true but thar figure could easily have been money allocated (not spent) for more than a year e.g. season updates and could have included money for marketing too.
The number sounds far fetch and he did not specify much about who he talked to so it’s reasonable to be skeptical. If you look at other industries journalist who report a scoop will often tell you the broad role of the sources or at least tell you that they are someone who would be privy or close to the details. Colin IIRC just said it was someone who worked on the game. Being a game dev or artist you might hear and be told things but you aren’t always told everything and can’t always access the real details. They also aren’t always that business savvy and might be irresponsibly sharing information.
There are factual statements that can be ambiguous like if I said “this game made a million bucks already” that can be interpreted as revenue or as profit. The “$200M to fix concord in a year” could be somewhat true but thar figure could easily have been money allocated (not spent) for more than a year e.g. season updates and could have included money for marketing too.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Did the podcaster hurt your lord and master’s feelings?the lesson for the rest of us:
HogIsland
Member
i just stopped getting rolled by false reporting.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
Sony was humiliated and ridiculed not by warriors/fanboys, or a "PlayStation tax" but by the actual market, which rejected this trash....And that's something no one will be able to spin. is this truth really hurting some people?:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, the most recent State of Play was a pleasant sign. Not a single GaaS game and closed with Ghost.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Hopefully the message gets through to the heads at Playstation and they use this as an opportunity to purge the woke activist assholes from the company.Sony was humiliated and ridiculed not by warriors/fanboys, or a "PlayStation tax" but by the actual market, which rejected this trash....And that's something no one will be able to spin. is this truth really hurting some people?:
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
based in the latest report sony/PS are going to double down in DEI
Roufianos
Member
I tuned out of that episode the minute I heard his Woody Woodpecker voice.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Jason Schreier "Horizon Online Next for Guerilla, Horizon 3 'Ways off', Sony's Live Service Initiative was no joke"
Yeah, I mean like, Sony-PlayStation's like live service initiative was no joke, everybody was like...it's live service games all around. Horizon is one of the few ones that hasn't been canceled or hasn't come out and flopped the way Concord did and so...yeah, a lot of questions. A lot of people...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Jason Schreier "Horizon Online Next for Guerilla, Horizon 3 'Ways off', Sony's Live Service Initiative was no joke"
Yeah, I mean like, Sony-PlayStation's like live service initiative was no joke, everybody was like...it's live service games all around. Horizon is one of the few ones that hasn't been canceled or hasn't come out and flopped the way Concord did and so...yeah, a lot of questions. A lot of people...www.neogaf.com
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
And nothing. I was just showing you that Sony hasn’t learned from their monumental failure.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They're not going to cancel what is in development. Not every game is going to be Concord.
Again, the most recent SoP was a pleasant surprise. Same with TGS showings.
Regardless of a future what if/maybe game.
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Fbh
Member
I'm not the biggest Colin fan but I've been following his podcast long enough to trust he wouldn't just randomly make up a fake source. That said, the source could be bullshitting him or greatly exaggerating. I don't really get game budgets anyway, like how a 7 hours game mostly built on recycled assets like Miles Morales cost almost $200 mill to make.
Either way it would be fun to someday get a proper Insomniac style leak to see the real budget of this. If only to see either the "it's the biggest flop ever" or the "it's totally a small game for Sony and it was made with $15 worth of Wallmart giftcards" camp getting owned.
He just says the source came to him and provided enough evidence to prove they are who they claim to be at the studio (including a several hours long video chat). He acknowledges they could be lying to him, even though he has no reason to believe that to be the case.
Either way it would be fun to someday get a proper Insomniac style leak to see the real budget of this. If only to see either the "it's the biggest flop ever" or the "it's totally a small game for Sony and it was made with $15 worth of Wallmart giftcards" camp getting owned.
He just says the source came to him and provided enough evidence to prove they are who they claim to be at the studio (including a several hours long video chat). He acknowledges they could be lying to him, even though he has no reason to believe that to be the case.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I’m not saying that. But if you are to believe Sony at their word, they’re doubling down even on DEI. Which is a major factor on how the market/world rejected Concord/sony’s woke bullshit.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I just don’t think some can accept that Sony can do something wrong.Sony was humiliated and ridiculed not by warriors/fanboys, or a "PlayStation tax" but by the actual market, which rejected this trash....And that's something no one will be able to spin. is this truth really hurting some people?:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I also saw
Topher
's post that had a 245 page document, where the posts that made up that thread, showed up in less than a page and seemed more passing checkboxes on the global stage the way the full document glossed over it. But, it's also understandable why we over sensationalize the culture war shit as well and being apprehensive.Again, we will see. I foresee an iron fist to eventually come down via Japan.
Roufianos
Member
I mean, it's a podcast you listen to it while commuting, working out, walking, gaming etc. I doubt many people sit down and consume the video version in full.
Colin's content is far superior than competition like Nextlander where 3 dudes discuss each topic at a surface level for 10 minutes. You can also use timestamps to pick and choose the discussions you're interested in.
drotahorror
Member
If someone fed you bullshit as a journo, I would think it's free game to put them on blast.
AmuroChan
Member
There are timestamps. So just skip around and listen to the topics that interest you.
MiguelItUp
Member
Exactly. It's been odd seeing people defend the total cost so hard. At this point that's all just semantics, it was still a shit ton of money and a complete flop that they apparently were very confident about at one point and time.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
We can only hope.I also saw
Again, we will see. I foresee an iron fist to eventually come down via Japan.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm hanging onto that thin thread of it, otherwise I would have bowed out of modern gaming already.
AmuroChan
Member
I think he's done that before. Remember that fake Sony insider Tidux? Back in the PSILY days he fed Colin and Greg some PlayStation-related rumors that turned out to be complete BS and then they called him out on it the next episode.
Zacfoldor
Member
I'll be honest I actually kinda do find it plausible. If a large downtown company in a state with lots of employer requirements in high end rental office space worked for half a decade and produced zero dollars of revenue I could see >200 mil. Especially if they were CERTAIN they would eventually product a large AAA GAAS as a new IP. ie hubris. Especially if they were also adding office features to recruit talent.
I mean, 200m is a ton to lose but when you count every last dime and not even have a game to ship at the end of it....well that is gonna be a huge loss.
Without evidence we can't say for sure, but I don't think Sony wants to provide evidence on that. Even if it is less than 400m it is probably higher than you think.
My understanding is that Colin believes the figure skyrocketed due to triage needed on certain in game features discovered late in development that needed to be resolved but could not be by the main team. These outsourced developer studios would have charged a premium as the work was short notice, difficult(the hard stuff that their main team couldn't figure out), and urgent, and apparently there was a lot of it. After already being so heavily invested, there was no real solution but to pay the money so they could launch the game. So yeah, I think it was very costly if that is true and if not true, it was also very costly.
I mean, 200m is a ton to lose but when you count every last dime and not even have a game to ship at the end of it....well that is gonna be a huge loss.
Without evidence we can't say for sure, but I don't think Sony wants to provide evidence on that. Even if it is less than 400m it is probably higher than you think.
My understanding is that Colin believes the figure skyrocketed due to triage needed on certain in game features discovered late in development that needed to be resolved but could not be by the main team. These outsourced developer studios would have charged a premium as the work was short notice, difficult(the hard stuff that their main team couldn't figure out), and urgent, and apparently there was a lot of it. After already being so heavily invested, there was no real solution but to pay the money so they could launch the game. So yeah, I think it was very costly if that is true and if not true, it was also very costly.
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IAmNotFromDelaware
Member
I didn't realize folks here were trying to discredit him. Is it Sony fanboyism or do they simply don't trust his sources? Or they simply don't want to believe it.
Astray
Member
The $400m thing increasingly looks sus as fuck to me.
The fact that it's been over a week and no one actually came out to corroborate the number is also kinda damaging to the credibility.
It was even ridiculed by Tom Warren, a guy who would definitely jump on it if it's accurate on a technicality.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Colin Moriarty should be ashamed of himself. He should absolutely know better, he just doesn't care. He's looking for as many retweets and reshares as possible and he knows there is an audience that is willing to carry his message if it is related to Concord.
People have been piling on Concord since before it released into beta... for a multitude of reasons. Yes the studio made bad choices and there are people working there who had their priorities askew.
Most studios get a chance to redeem themselves. Just look at CDPR with Cyberpunk and Hello Games with No Man's Sky.
He's spread this rumor that is almost certainly not true based on objective reasoning and all the evidence we do have surrounding the game.
He's right, he's not a journalist and he doesn't care if he is wrong, because he doesn't care about the damage he is doing to people and their livelihoods.
The more negative connotation surrounding Concord whether fair or unfair, the less likely Sony is to let Firewalk try to fix the game or move on to something else. Games and studios should be judged on their merits, not because of hate campaigns or grifters pushing to get views for their podcasts.
People have been piling on Concord since before it released into beta... for a multitude of reasons. Yes the studio made bad choices and there are people working there who had their priorities askew.
Most studios get a chance to redeem themselves. Just look at CDPR with Cyberpunk and Hello Games with No Man's Sky.
He's spread this rumor that is almost certainly not true based on objective reasoning and all the evidence we do have surrounding the game.
He's right, he's not a journalist and he doesn't care if he is wrong, because he doesn't care about the damage he is doing to people and their livelihoods.
The more negative connotation surrounding Concord whether fair or unfair, the less likely Sony is to let Firewalk try to fix the game or move on to something else. Games and studios should be judged on their merits, not because of hate campaigns or grifters pushing to get views for their podcasts.
Vlodril
Member
This is Neogaf.gif
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Nah. I think the market judged it fairly for what it is, and perceived to be.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Sony acquired the game + studio + IP. I don't know how you value that. They had to pay PM enough to make it worth their while which would be a healthy ROI on costs spent and then what the IP and team were valued at. Sony obviously thought they were valuable. Sony paid $229 million for just the Insomniac studio in 2019, they were proven, but they didn't have the IP attached and costs have kind of exploded since then. I think $200M to acquire this studio is probably a fair low estimate.
samstrajack
Neo Member
Colin going on a 45m defense of himself without providing any new information to back up what almost everyone in the industry is saying cannot be true, is psychotic behavior.
Look you can say, "I'm not a journalist", but when you're breaking a MAJOR story with extraordinary claims, you cannot be expected to be taken seriously without providing extraordinary evidence or at least more than one source. Not a journalist? That's fine, but don't pump your engagement with claims that at this point seem almost certainly erroneous.
Look you can say, "I'm not a journalist", but when you're breaking a MAJOR story with extraordinary claims, you cannot be expected to be taken seriously without providing extraordinary evidence or at least more than one source. Not a journalist? That's fine, but don't pump your engagement with claims that at this point seem almost certainly erroneous.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
The $400M figure thrown out does not include acquisition costs
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
He’s definitely defensive and backtracking
He went from “my source is 100% solid”
To “he could be lying to me”
samstrajack
Neo Member
And for the record - I think it's possible that stem to stern, the total amount spent on Concord + marketing was maybe 400m, but it's really stretching the numbers to arrive at that conclusion IMO.
TropicanaTwista
Member
I think most people here understand that. Its a massive flop, one of the biggest in gaming history and probably the largest for Sony. Having said that, there is a difference between the game itself being a big flop and concord being the most expensive PS studio game ever made by a substantial amount and Sony believing it was their new bell cow IP.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
So if this 400 million dollar rumor isn't true and the game cost 100 million or 150 million, you think people continuing to believe it costs nearly 4x that much is fair?
diffusionx
Gold Member
It's more plausible than people want to believe. If Sony thought this was a true next level, future of the business tier franchise, with major potential across all aspects of their business, as they branch out into TV and movies, then it's like almost no amount of money is not worth spending. There was a thread the other day about the mid MMO Elder Scrolls Online getting almost $200M in revenue for a decade. Games in development right now from these studios, like Wolverine, are going to cost well over $300M. It's possible that Naughty Dog's next game will be a $500M enterprise, if Sony allows it (they will). GTA6 is like, $2B. This is where we are at. People want to believe that these games still cost $50M to make and a high budget is $100M. It hasn't been for a long time and costs have gone way up in the past three years.