Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"

Firmus_Anguis said:
So having non-optimized ports that chug along at 20 fps is not gimping? What is then, by your definition?
Osiris made clear that developers will take full advantage of the new hardware, essentially not giving a fuck how they run on the regular PS4. That's gimping!
It's of course inevitable that PS4 games will eventually run into limitations and problems when trying to tackle more ambitious titles... But not in it's THIRD year. That's never happened. At least never to a console this successful - And especially not to a console whose console makers touted its longevity!
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Receipts please.
 
I hope Sony is listening to this feedback and decides to not release the PS4.5. I'm not a jealous PS4 owner. I have a nice gaming PC, so I really wouldn't need to upgrade if Sony did release it. I just don't want them to make a stupid decision after doing so many things right to get the PS4 where it is today. Sony will probably lose money by releasing it. PS4.5 won't make much profit if they plan on still selling the existing PS4 SKU.
 
You know, I'm sure this question has been asked a million times but..


why cant they just start working on the next console? I cant help but feel like this is going to alienate the average console buyer in a smiliar manner that the wiiU did.

Think about it. WiiU sales were poor, large in part because a lot of casual console owners didnt realize it was something new entirely, and had no interest in a .5 console.
 
meanspartan said:
Now early adopters, the people who made the ps4 the success it is, get the second rate experience and feel lesser unless they shell out more money to Sony for another Ps4.
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Sony and the PlayStation aren't your friends. You bought a console that will still do what the console does when something else comes out. We aren't owed anything else.
 
Wagram said:
Sony and the PlayStation aren't your friends. You bought a console that will still do what the console does when something else comes out. We aren't owed anything else.
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But Adam Boyes follows me on Twitter, and Shu used to speak to me before he got massively popular. But my man Gio still replies to my tweets. Gio is life, Gio is Vita.

PS4Gio.
 
SlightySweatyPanda said:
You know, I'm sure this question has been asked a million times but..


why cant they just start working on the next console? I cant help but feel like this is going to alienate the average console buyer in a smiliar manner that the wiiU did.

Think about it. WiiU sales were poor, large in part because a lot of casual console owners didnt realize it was something new entirely, and had no interest in a .5 console.
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Nothing changes for anyone who still owns a PS4. It will still play all new games. Sony is trying to buck the console trend...if they went for a new console entirely it would be the same status quo we're used to. The fact that everything is forwards compatible should be applauded, and it means no one needs to buy a new version if you don't want to.

WiiU is not a good comparison to PS4 at all. It was a flop and the PS4 has been a huge success. With this new iteration, Sony keeps their install base from PS4 intact + is able to cater to the higher end of the market who wants horsepower improvements.
 
SolidSnakex said:
There's no way to verify if it's "the majority", but all signs point toward it certainly not going over smoothly with at least some devs.
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That is given some will like it other won't .
The question will be who matters the most or who the majority are.
For eg a company DICE liking is worth more than 20 or 30 indies devs for IMO .
 
Firmus_Anguis said:
So having non-optimized ports that chug along at 20 fps is not gimping? What is then, by your definition?
Osiris made clear that developers will take full advantage of the new hardware, essentially not giving a fuck how they run on the regular PS4. That's gimping!
It's of course inevitable that PS4 games will eventually run into limitations and problems when trying to tackle more ambitious titles... But not in it's THIRD year. That's never happened. At least never to a console this successful - And especially not to a console whose console makers touted its longevity!
Click to expand...
Osiris never said the bolded, you are coming up with that based on your fears.

The console was already struggling and the games were already "gimped" as you put it before anything was known about the ps4k. Uncharted 4 multiplayer runs at 900p. Battlefront and the Battlefield games runs at 900p. Look at FFXV, it's struggling with its framerate. Assassnis Creed Unity was so messed up.

Thanks to the x86 architecture, devs didn't need much time to start pushing the limits of the console. So you're right, yeah, that has never happened before for consoles because the architectures of the consoles have been some weird custom-stuf that it took developers years to get used to. The longevity of the ps4 is not really effected by this, if anything it has increased and is going to make this gen last longer.
 
farisr said:
Thanks to the x86 architecture, devs didn't need much time to start pushing the limits of the console. So you're right, yeah, that has never happened before for consoles because the architectures of the consoles have been some weird custom-stuf that it took developers years to get used to. The longevity of the ps4 is not really effected by this, if anything it has increased and is going to make this gen last longer.
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Aside from Original Xbox.
 
Wagram said:
Sony and the PlayStation aren't your friends. You bought a console that will still do what the console does when something else comes out. We aren't owed anything else.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right.

I did EXPECT the console to have a 5-6 year lifespan in which it was the hardware games were built for. Nothing in the history of consoles suggested it would become the second-rate machine after 3 years.

But, my expectations are my fault, regardless of the precedent of decades of console history I guess.
 
Firmus_Anguis said:
Which part? About the longevity? Couple of pages back. You'll find it.
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Probably the part where you said that the games would chug along at 20 FPS on the regular PS4 even though you have absolutely no evidence of it, just speculation. Actually most of your post is unfounded malarkey, and yes I used the word malarkey.
 
jdmonmou said:
I hope Sony is listening to this feedback and decides to not release the PS4.5. I'm not a jealous PS4 owner. I have a nice gaming PC, so I really wouldn't need to upgrade if Sony did release it. I just don't want them to make a stupid decision after doing so many things right to get the PS4 where it is today. Sony will probably lose money by releasing it. PS4.5 won't make much profit if they plan on still selling the existing PS4 SKU.
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It will make millions even if it's a moderate seller. Obviously Sony has projections that say it will be profitable and set up what they want for ps5.
 
Kathian said:
Yup. All this is is most of the same parts that you have to buy again. People make up nonsense like "this is how tech is changing" but actually its just that the phone market has replaced a large section of the PC market where constant upgrades are released annually.
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And tablets and wearables and cars and tvs and everything else. Consoles are the exception. Even fridges get yearly updates.
 
zsynqx said:
As many feared.
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Yep. And you still have some people clapping furiously in anticipation of the announcement...only to line up 3 years later for the next revision. People have forgotten what it meant for customers and developers alike to have one unified system throughout a normal length generation.

And tablets and wearables and cars and tvs and everything else. Consoles are the exception. Even fridges get yearly updates
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You don't play games on your TV and fridge, and the software destined for tablets and mobiles does not take 3 years to produce...
 
jdmonmou said:
I hope Sony is listening to this feedback and decides to not release the PS4.5. I'm not a jealous PS4 owner. I have a nice gaming PC, so I really wouldn't need to upgrade if Sony did release it. I just don't want them to make a stupid decision after doing so many things right to get the PS4 where it is today. Sony will probably lose money by releasing it. PS4.5 won't make much profit if they plan on still selling the existing PS4 SKU.
Click to expand...

it will sell to:

a) 4k TV owners who just want something to take more advantage of 4K stuff

b) current PS4 owners who really want the additional power

as long as they aren't taking a loss on each unit, it's all gravy and customers they wouldn't have otherwise
 
farisr said:
Osiris never said the bolded, you are coming up with that based on your fears.

The console was already struggling and the games were already "gimped" as you put it before anything was known about the ps4k. Uncharted 4 multiplayer runs at 900p. Battlefront and the Battlefield games runs at 900p. Look at FFXV, it's struggling with its framerate. Assassnis Creed Unity was so messed up.

Thanks to the x86 architecture, devs didn't need much time to start pushing the limits of the console. So you're right, yeah, that has never happened before for consoles because the architectures of the consoles have been some weird custom-stuf that it took developers years to get used to. The longevity of the ps4 is not really effected by this, if anything it has increased and is going to make this gen last longer.
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This is only true if the PS4 gets phased out by the Neo, which would mean Neo-only games.
 
WordsintheWater said:
Probably the part where you said that the games would chug along at 20 FPS on the regular PS4 even though you have absolutely no evidence of it, just speculation. Actually most of your post is unfounded malarkey, and yes I used the word malarkey.
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Malarkey is a great word. Thanks for making GAF better.
 
@OPs title: I can imagine.
So when Richard Marks talked about the PS4's advantage of having hardware consistency for VR just 2 months ago he was basically lying and misleading devs and publishers?
xPjPwtU.png
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVVs5O8NC0#t=7m15s
 
benny_a said:
You recall incorrectly.
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No, you.
Yoshida said:
But in 2011 the progress became super slow. There were lots of technical issues. The game was not performing at speed. The video we showed, the trailer on PS3, was specced up. The game was running at a much lower frame rate. Some features were still missing.

“So it was clear that the team had to make a compromise in terms of features and number of characters so while they were taking time, the engineering team ported the code on the SPU [processors of the PS3] to improve the performance, but it was taking lots of time.

“But, in the meantime PS4 arrived, the development environment was available. So in 2012 it became apparent we should move it to PS4 to achieve the visual [ideal.]
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http://kotaku.com/what-happened-to-the-last-guardian-1711835457
 
meanspartan said:
You're absolutely right.

I did EXPECT the console to have a 5-6 year lifespan in which it was the hardware games were built for. Nothing in the history of consoles suggested it would become the second-rate machine after 3 years.

But, my expectations are my fault, regardless of the precedent of decades of console history I guess.
Click to expand...
Except Nintendo has been doing it for the longest time now.

Inb4 portable consoles aren't consoles and the n64 doesn't count.
 
SlightySweatyPanda said:
You know, I'm sure this question has been asked a million times but..


why cant they just start working on the next console? I cant help but feel like this is going to alienate the average console buyer in a smiliar manner that the wiiU did.

Think about it. WiiU sales were poor, large in part because a lot of casual console owners didnt realize it was something new entirely, and had no interest in a .5 console.
Click to expand...

well, this is the next console. only this time we wont wait 7 years and the games are forward compatible.
 
gatti-man said:
It will make millions even if it's a moderate seller. Obviously Sony has projections that say it will be profitable and set up what they want for ps5.
Click to expand...

Another reason why I don't like the PS NEO is because it will make the PS5 look less impressive. With each new console release consumers are expecting to see a giant improvement in graphics. If the PS5 looks only marginally better than the Neo, then people won't see the need to upgrade.

So I would argue that the Neo could hurt sales of the PS5, but only if successful. I don't think it will be since price is a huge concern for consumers. Most people will probably just buy the existing PS4 rather than spend the extra money on a Neo. And, people who already own a PS4 will not see the need to upgrade since the Neo will only be marginally better. So I just wonder what the whole point of this is. PS4 is dominating Xbox One and Microsoft has walked back their comments on a new Xbox One. There's no need to do this.
 
I mean, I can understand why you want to work with devs/pubs and cater to their needs as best as you can, but you can't just let them run the whole show. If the platform holders did that, we'd have game discs we couldn't trade, borrow or sell, (without giving pubs their cut), and the problems with broken games on Day 1 and over-monetization of content would be even more ridiculous than it already is.
 
farisr said:
Osiris never said the bolded, you are coming up with that based on your fears.

The console was already struggling and the games were already "gimped" as you put it before anything was known about the ps4k. Uncharted 4 multiplayer runs at 900p. Battlefront and the Battlefield games runs at 900p. Look at FFXV, it's struggling with its framerate. Assassnis Creed Unity was so messed up.

Thanks to the x86 architecture, devs didn't need much time to start pushing the limits of the console. So you're right, yeah, that has never happened before for consoles because the architectures of the consoles have been some weird custom-stuf that it took developers years to get used to. The longevity of the ps4 is not really effected by this, if anything it has increased and is going to make this gen last longer.
Click to expand...

It's a legitimate train of thought. Saying they'll take full advantage of a considerably more powerful console - sacrifices be damned - is alarming to hear for a console this early on in it's lifecycle. Most games on the PS4 run at a mostly stable 30 fps with a 1080p resolution. I doubt the general consensus will be anything but "What!? A new console!? Already!?"
People went fucking nuts when Microsoft tried to pull it's "always online" DRM policies. You don't think this stands a chance to hurt them? I think it does - It's a risk, no doubt.
Heck, even GAF is divided on this issue! So it could go either way - An enormous success or a complete failure. Sony is willing to risk it, so we'll see how it goes and how the market takes it.
 
Aren't devkits just going out? Of course devs will complain. They probably had fixed budgets and release timelines that may be in jeopardy now. They'll get over it and eventually praise it for letting them present their games even better than they already can. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.

And the people who can't afford brand new toys can either play with their old toys or scream at the clouds. Welcome to consumerism.
 
dose said:
@OPs title: I can imagine.
So when Richard Marks talked about the PS4's advantage of having hardware consistency for VR just 2 months ago he was basically lying and misleading devs and publishers?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVVs5O8NC0#t=7m15s
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Same thing that House brought up as selling point for PSVR to developers during the GDC price announcement

"Because PS4 is a fixed platform, developers can optimize their platform knowing that the experience will be identical across all users."
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So much for that if they end up releasing this.
 
The God said:
How else does the gen last longer?
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Because a new upgraded hardware release basically adds a year or two extra. It'll quench the thirst of the people that want better running games, the new hardware will over time keep on showing improvements in games (as more and more devs start giving it more attention) even if the baseps4 releases reaches its limit. But, we're not going to get to a point where baseps4 is phased out completely (within this gen at least) or ps4neo exclusive games start getting made. Baseps4 has sold way too much already for that to even be a realistic scenario.
 
jdmonmou said:
Another reason why I don't like the PS NEO is because it will make the PS5 look less impressive. With each new console release consumers are expecting to see a giant improvement in graphics. If the PS5 looks only marginally better than the Neo, then people won't see the need to upgrade.

So I would argue that the Neo could hurt sales of the PS5, but only if successful. I don't think it will be since price is a huge concern for consumers. Most people will probably just buy the existing PS4 rather than spend the extra money on a Neo. And, people who already own a PS4 will not see the need to upgrade since the Neo will only be marginally better. So I just wonder what the whole point of this is. PS4 is dominating Xbox One and Microsoft has walked back their comments on a new Xbox One. There's no need to do this.
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Dude cmon. PS5 will be using some pretty cutting edge stuff from a few years off.
 
Windforce said:
Any devs in here can tell us if they are really unhappy with PS4K/NEO?
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I commented earlier, but it's really going to come down to how difficult it is to make the separate builds, etc.

In our case, this likely just means planning for a 4K option, which we'd have to do for PC anyway. But since our game is heavily focused on sprites, there may not be a noticeable visual improvement to justify the testing time, etc.
 
farisr said:
Because a new upgraded hardware release basically adds a year or two extra. It'll quench the thirst of the people that want better running games, the new hardware will over time keep on showing improvements in games (as more and more devs start giving it more attention) even if the baseps4 releases reaches its limit. But, we're not going to get to a point where baseps4 is phased out completely (within this gen at least) or ps4neo exclusive games start getting made. Baseps4 has sold way too much already for that to even be a realistic scenario.
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This is saying that the Neo is necessary to extend the life of the PS4.

Why do we need new hardware for devs to keep supporting the PS4 until the PS5?
 
Ok, so according to reports dev kits have just gone out, which presumably means the SDK is newly updated...but no-one as yet has really started work on this?

So it could be an in-principle 'It's more work' moan rather than 'This is shit to develop for.'
 
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