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[Shari]

People have played new games in clearly lesser states on day one. Some people seem to live in a weird bubble where PC gaming does not exist. If you are OK with multiplats looking way better on PC then how will the PS4K be any different? For all you care it's a completely foreign system that does not affect your PS4. There is no proof that PS4 games will start performing like shit the second the PS4K comes out. This is all speculation, however the writing seems to already be on the wall?

Are you happy about how Uncharted 4 looks? This is as good as it will ever look on the PS4. Will it suddenly look like shit to you once the PS4K gets a graphically bumbed up version?

You are ok with multiplats playing better on PC because you dont spend the same amount of thus not getting the same results. When you buy console hardware you buying something you expect to last a generation and not to have an upgrade 2 years later. The poing about PS4 not being affected by the existence of PS4k is true, but only if you believe that devs are going to put the extra time out of nowhere to make the extra dev without any benefits. I think we can establish that PS4k buyers are people who either upgrade or that would buy regular PS4 if PS4k wouldnt exist, thus 0 extra sales.

Performance guessing is speculation, that is true, but it is undeniable how the third party market reacts when there are multiple versions of the same hardware, the lesser one gets the stick. This has been proven countless times during cross-gen periods.

 

[pastrami]

You are ok with multiplats playing better on PC because you dont spend the same amount of thus not getting the same results.

The PS4 is now $349. I guess early adopters (like myself) should demand that the PS4s sold at $349 should have been downclocked to match it's new price.

Technology improves, prices drop, get over it. I'm not going to cry because people are able to buy bigger TVs for less than what I paid for my smaller one years ago,

 

[Audioboxer]

Its more likely Colin Moriarty doesn't like it and heard one disgruntled dev. So now he makes this fake ass news cycle "most" devs.. yeah right, name one?!

It's quite clear from my posts I'm optimistic about it, and happy to buy if the GPU bump is as rumoured.

However I think it's a little unfair to go all ham on Colin. His personal opinion is clearly out in the open, and even the most optimistic supporter has to admit SOME devs will have a negative outlook.

All we have to do though is stay level headed and not go off the crazy train to "all devs this or most devs that". I know Colin has said most devs, but luckily for him unless he elaborates we simply cannot tell who he has spoken to. It does seem unrealistic though him or his source has gone all boy scout door to door and canvased any sort of amount of individual devs close to the amount that do work on PS in total.

 

[jdmonmou]

Its more likely Colin Moriarty doesn't like it and heard one disgruntled dev. So now he makes this fake ass news cycle "most" devs.. yeah right, name one?!

New PS4 & Xbox One Models Would Be A “Pain in the Ass” for Developers, Says BioWare Co-Founder

 

[...Scatter...]

It's not like they're going to abandon the PlayStation so they're going to have to suck it up.

They will get tired of console gamers complaining, sure. Just look at the PS4 / XBOX One debacle that was resolutiongate. But what choice do they have.

 

[PaNaMa]

I'm not a developer. But I can see both sides, in theory. Imagine if you are already developing for multiple platforms - PC, XB1, PS4, and .. now PS4.5. It's more resources that have to be allocated to adapting the PS4 code. It not quite the same another platform, but you still have to develop / integrate / test new graphics options, and there is not doubt it will add time a money to development costs. There will have to be PS4 testing, and PS4K testing etc. But I think if devs approach it like a PC, then the biggest hump is just coming up with a few "low/medium/high" graphics tweaks in the options menu.

Maybe there's some easy wins, like shadows to "high" or HBAO, or a few of the common PC options they can borrow from. You can slap on a 4x AA toggle Maybe those things don't take long to put in. But lighting engines and stuff.. take the Division. The PC version has dynamic lighting, the console versions use baked in. Would developers want to take the time to do the dynamic lighting on PS4K, when it's not in PS4, or just bake it in but have a higher frame rate?

It just comes down to a lot more dicking around, and that's a pain in the ass I'm sure for the teams.. but you know, on the flip side, the new power might also give creators the chance to present their game the way they conceived it, with less compromise. But there's no doubt PS4K will add to development time, and costs. At least initially.

 

[Nibel]

I believe Colin when he talks about his sources; him and Greg have been so long on this ride and so close to Sony that they shouldn't be questioned.

And I understand Colin's feelings as well: it's really weird that they are trying to adopt the smartphone model of releasing new incarnations of hardware when their very own system proves that the 'old' console model still works, maybe even better than ever.

 

[Cyriades]

New PS4 & Xbox One Models Would Be A “Pain in the Ass” for Developers, Says BioWare Co-Founder

link not working.

 

[Yopis]

Weird Colin is trying to condition people on the preferred course forward. Name these people. Otherwise let the market speak. A vocal minority that screams doom and doesn't want anything to change shouldn't always get their way.

People know if the whine online long enough most companies will change course.

 

[Cyriades]

New PS4 & Xbox One Models Would Be A “Pain in the Ass” for Developers, Says BioWare Co-Founder

He's speaking in "what ifs" before even having the dev kit to know if its really is hard or easy..

 

[thelastword]

I don't think most people care about it being the top of the line though. When it comes to consoles I think most people are happy having one multi hundred dollar purchase every 5-6 years. I agree tech is moving fast, so much faster then when consoles first became a thing, but market wise I just don't see this taking off with the average consumer. Definitely curious about reactions to the official announcement.

For the power you get, it's priced well enough to take off, I mean right now PS4 is priced at $350-400, this console is priced at $400, so going into the holidays a new ps4 buyer would choose a NEO over a vanilla because the pricepoint is palateable, it's much better hardware and people would become concious of that by then. If people get to know this plays UHD, supports 4k for games, it's a no brainer really. Keep in mind, there are many extras that could sweeten the deal even more when announced (potentially that is). Better wifi, HDD size upgrade, less power consumption stronger controller and battery life are all possibilities. Even if these don't pan out, the spec upgrade alone is pretty marketable.

third party are already doing this by targeting his end pc's, just to name a few, witcher 3, just cause 3. division, unity, watch dogs, and fall out 4 basically any game that had mind blowing graphics was first shown on pc then down scaled for ps4, except for batman.

At least big third parties should be salivating and perhaps now they can bring products closer to their initial trailers on consoles too. Ubi is a big one with all their WOW looking first trailers like that famous ghost recon trailer, it may now look closer to that on the upgraded hardware. Watch Dogs 2 may also look closer to the vision and I do hope that the for honor guys benefit tremendously from this as well. For EA I simply want more 60fps games like NFS, these should be 60fps on the NEO and i'd also like a 60fps version of catalyst too.

I still remember hearing ramblings that TLG was tough to port over to PS4 and they could still use more power. I'm thinking the extra power would help that team too. So in most of these scenarios, I'm seeing big plusses for devs as it relates to showing their wares in the best light. I'm sorry but I'm kinda excited by the prospect.

 

[KooopaKid]

I'll keep harping on IMO this is the real driver for them here. 2 years is MORE than an eternity in this new VR market that will go gangbusters tech wise going forward right now with increasing VR complexity and new experiences.

Even if the Sony HQ simply wanted to test the water with iterative consoles without VR, undoubtedly trying to stay relevant in the upcoming VR market really is the push causing them to do this IMO. Without a doubt VR experiences are the brickwall devs may well come back to Sony about in the next year or two and say sorry bro, our game will not work on the original PS4 well enough for us to make a version of it for you. That is the fear that causes PSVR to die out before the PS5 can hit our shelves.

Agree completely, I think PS4 Neo was made with VR in mind.

 

[S.Holmes]

I'm interested to see how all of this plays out. Got my popcorn ready.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

It sounds like confirmation bias.

 

[KeRaSh]

You are ok with multiplats playing better on PC because you dont spend the same amount of thus not getting the same results. When you buy console hardware you buying something you expect to last a generation and not to have an upgrade 2 years later. The poing about PS4 not being affected by the existence of PS4k is true, but only if you believe that devs are going to put the extra time out of nowhere to make the extra dev without any benefits. I think we can establish that PS4k buyers are people who either upgrade or that would buy regular PS4 if PS4k wouldnt exist, thus 0 extra sales.

Performance guessing is speculation, that is true, but it is undeniable how the third party market reacts when there are multiple versions of the same hardware, the lesser one gets the stick. This has been proven countless times during cross-gen periods.

I'm not denying that this is a possibility. We just don't know for sure and I'm not a fan of pessimistic doom and gloom talk before anything is even officially announced.
Developers skipped the Wii U for the most part so with one less console to work with they actually had less work on their hands. The NX might change that and the PS4K as well. What if Sega came back and released a new console? Would developers ignore it because it would add to their workload? There will be people who will only buy a PS4K so those people can be counted towards sales that would otherwise be non-existent. It'll definitely be interesting to see what the adoption rates will look like, that's for sure!

I guess this is something the developers will have to deal with and Sony has to make sure to give them the best tools they can offer. If PS4 versions will start to look and play like shit Sony should crack down on lazy devs through their certification process and whatever slips through the cracks will be judged by millions of PS4 owners and reviewers.

 

[mckmas8808]

I guess it's bad in the sense that what's the point in buying it if the majority of games don't use any of the upgraded features

Then don't buy it. That doesn't make it bad for games to have a choice.

 

[CosmicQueso]

New PS4 & Xbox One Models Would Be A “Pain in the Ass” for Developers, Says BioWare Co-Founder

Retired in 2012 and has been brewing beer ever since. Not a current developer.

 

[Atomski]

I'm sure some devs were excited till they heard all the restrictions.

We got all this power but we can't use it.. Waaaa

 

[Audioboxer]

Retired in 2012 and has been brewing beer ever since. Not a current developer.

His opinion on things given his past is valid to discuss, but most certainly not gospel when wheeled out alongside Colins sources as the end all and be all of how devs are thinking. Or to be used as "Bioware are saying this" when people don't even read who he is and that he isn't with Bioware anymore. We need more actual devs to speak out (which they're not really going to do until Sony actually announce the damn thing).

 

[CosmicQueso]

His opinion on things given his past is valid to discuss, but most certainly not gospel when wheeled out alongside Colins sources as the end all and be all of how devs are thinking. We need more actual devs to speak out (which they're not really going to do until Sony actually announce the damn thing).

Agreed.

 

[iceatcs]

Of course, it will be the pain in the ass for some, but I just don't see they will run away from it.

 

[Croatoan]

Small devs have to optimize for infinite PC variety and then complain about a second PS4?

Yeah I smell bullshit.

 

[Audioboxer]

Small devs have to optimize for infinite PC variety and then complain about a second PS4?

Yeah I smell bullshit.

Well there are console devs that aren't used to change. A lot of the studios today doing console stuff probably farm their PC ports out to other studios for the exact reason of they cba optimising for variants. Hi Batman Arkham Knight...

Everything isn't as cut and dry as "devs do it for PC". However taken in context, 2 similar variations is nowhere near on the scale of multiple PC variations across different component manufacturers. An everyday brain would make the leap it's in no way as intensive a task. Nor should it be if Sony put out a decent SDK to help.

 

[JP]

Are some developers concerned? Yes, that's normal for any new console hardware irrelevant of the form it takes.

Are most developers concerned? Nobody has spoken to most developers about it so claiming such a thing is merely an estimation.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

I believe Colin when he talks about his sources; him and Greg have been so long on this ride and so close to Sony that they shouldn't be questioned.

And I understand Colin's feelings as well: it's really weird that they are trying to adopt the smartphone model of releasing new incarnations of hardware when their very own system proves that the 'old' console model still works, maybe even better than ever.

Agreed. I know Colin is a very passionate guy, but he is super close to the Sony ecosystem and knows most of the first party devs personally. And he wouldn't put a tweet out like that without it being genuine sources. Rather than just one bloody dev!

I'm not happy about this either and whilst I was open to the idea originally, after a bit more thought on the whol ps4k i'll probably just stick to the ps4 until it's unsupported and just buy my games on my PC from then on.

Also why are so many people saying tech is moving super quick in the gaming space these days? Yes VR is and it isn't going to capture the public's imagination any time soon, but I'm not seeing anything else this gen that is pushing the consoles to their absolute limit that this new model is required. I personally believe the iterative model of other tech can coexist with a console generation just like it has for the past god knows how many years.

That's my take anyway.

 

[Anubistraveler]

With any kind of change you will have people that will be happy and unhappy with the situation. Ultimately, I think that until Sony actually says something about he product, and until it impacts current PS4 owners ability to play games, we should reserve our judgement.


That being said, I have no intention of buying this. I do not have a 4K TV, and I have no intention of buy VR. I honestly do not think it will impact those who choose not to upgrade.

I do feel bad for developers, who now will have to spend extra money to ensure that their game works on various versions on a system. (although this has been true for PC for a long time).

I am not concerned about AAA games. I do no think Sony or Microsoft is stupid enough to split their player base.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's been fascinating listening to Colin talk about his stance on this topic since murmurings of the PS4K hit the general public. I too, greedily welcome the prospect of a iterative console on a shorter cycle which boosts game performance to the highest achievable level, but the fact is that this is a troubling trend to set; one which will have positive effects for some, while splitting the general gaming population even further and having negative repercussions on gaming in general.

It won't split the userbase if Sony keeps the rules as the leaks state. If there are never any PS4 NEO only games, then what's the problem?

 

[CrashPrime]

Develop the PS4 version, add custom sliders for NEO users. Zero costs. People complain about performance? Leave the sliders alone.

I never understood the lack of sliders on consoles with a "we tested at this level" default.

 

[Principate]

He's speaking in "what ifs" before even having the dev kit to know if its really is hard or easy..

It's not as if that changes anything. He's been in the business long enough to have a rough idea of the extra workload.

 

[Vinc]

Develop the PS4 version, add custom sliders for NEO users. Zero costs. People complain about performance? Leave the sliders alone.

I never understood the lack of sliders on consoles with a "we tested at this level" default.

How is that zero cost in any way though. The permutations brought by those sliders have to be programmed, integrated, thoroughly tested, and submitted to Sony. None of that is zero cost...

 

[Cyriades]

It's not as if that changes anything. He's been in the business long enough to have a rough idea of the extra workload.

Nope, there have never been a time like this where a console with x86 architecture been upgrade midlife cycle. So no, he really has no idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_3YDcAE_wM

I agree with ReviewTechUSA on this.

 

[>-Baron-Spamedi-<]

This is just Moriarty turning his confirmation bias into news.


I suppose I will be getting a PS4k. All my Tvs are 4K and I'm getting PSVR so it makes some kind of sense.

Generally I'm not keen on this shortened cycle upgrading. It's too much like the crap you have to go through with PC gaming and I simply can't be arsed with that nonsense anymore.

I'm hoping this is a one off caused mainly because the PSVR design was completed, and because Bluray UHD 4k specs were finalised, shortly after the release of PS4.

 

[nded]

Small devs have to optimize for infinite PC variety and then complain about a second PS4?

Yeah I smell bullshit.

Smaller PC devs don't "optimize" so much as set recommended specs and fix problems as they come up after release, certainly not to the extent that console devs are expected to optimize. The PC users being more able and willing to fix certain problems themselves and PC devs not having to go through potentially expensive QA and certification processes for PC also makes a difference.

The degree of optimization relative to hardware is also different between consoles and PCs, with console devs being expected to squeeze out relatively more performance and specialized, hyper-efficient code since the specs are fixed and more variables are accounted for than with PC. The two situations aren't really directly comparable.

 

[Shari]

Develop the PS4 version, add custom sliders for NEO users. Zero costs. People complain about performance? Leave the sliders alone.

I never understood the lack of sliders on consoles with a "we tested at this level" default.

This is a nice idea with a relatively low cost. This is doable, I just dont know if enough for 40M users to be tempted to upgrade.

Also, zero cost is laughable, nothing in a business environment has zero cost, nothing.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's not as if that changes anything. He's been in the business long enough to have a rough idea of the extra workload.

He does not since this has never happen before.
Depending how the tools and SDK are it can this can very easy to port .
I mean the cpu is the same in both systems but one overclock .
Yes it going to be a extra work load the question is how much .

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

For the power you get, it's priced well enough to take off, I mean right now PS4 is priced at $350-400, this console is priced at $400, so going into the holidays a new ps4 buyer would choose a NEO over a vanilla because the pricepoint is palateable, it's much better hardware and people would become concious of that by then. If people get to know this plays UHD, supports 4k for games, it's a no brainer really. Keep in mind, there are many extras that could sweeten the deal even more when announced (potentially that is). Better wifi, HDD size upgrade, less power consumption stronger controller and battery life are all possibilities. Even if these don't pan out, the spec upgrade alone is pretty marketable.

Good point, I really didn't think of the other upgrades to the system. If the price point pans out as such, which I assume it will, then yeah that seems like enough to incentivize any new adopters to go with that model.

 

[Papacheeks]

third party are already doing this by targeting his end pc's, just to name a few, witcher 3, just cause 3. division, unity, watch dogs, and fall out 4 basically any game that had mind blowing graphics was first shown on pc then down scaled for ps4, except for batman.

Witcher 3 was demoed at E3 2014 on XBox one. And the final product looked pretty damn close to what they showed in 2014.

The rest yes, were mostly trailers like fallout 4, and when demoed yes running on PC. But not all third party.

I want to say most of the call of duty's when they are showing live gameplay are usually running on console, its when they show a tailored trailer that the footage is most likely PC.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes it is all an elaborate April fools joke, oh wait. You wont have to buy anything if you don't want to as all of the games will work on PS4 as well as the Neo.

Why can't people understand this?

 

[Omnistalgic]

I trust Cerny...

 

[Hostile_18]

I would be if you suddenly told me I had to implement an additional 'neo' mode in my game due out this fall. Who is going to pay for that extra time testing it?



I wonder if some smaller devs can't afford to 'get used to it' and will just keep their game on PC, instead.

Yeah a place with hundreds of configurations rather than two.

 

[Auctopus]

Why can't people understand this?

I understand it. But I think it's naive to believe that things won't steadily change and games start to be optimised for PS4K. Of course, all I can do now is be hesitant. This still isn't real news as we don't have details or an announcement but I'm hesitant for good reason.

 

[The God]

Why can't people understand this?

Everyone understands that just fine.

 

[mckmas8808]

Has anyone here actually listened to the latest Gamescast, Colin spends the entire time overreacting, complaining, and failing to see how this could benefit anyone. His primary reason for concern: old PS4 owners insecurity complexes.

I really enjoy the guys and their commentary but this is one of those times where I have to cringe a little.

For obvious reasons too. I love Colin too, but he's insane on this PS4k point. Like not reasonable at all!

 

[ukas]

Why can't people understand this?

Because people need something to bitch about. Nothing new here.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You can't build a game for lower console then just tack on effects and higher quality models.

According to your non sources?

They will be made for the high end machine and then scaled back for PS4.

There would be literally no point to the PS4K if the games didn't look better, Sony wouldn't allow it.

But they do allow it. And the PS4K games will be improved even if they just dump the code right on there with stabler framerates. What your saying doesnt' make any sense.

 

[Straight Edge]

$399 for hardware that will last years (and retain some resale value) is not a lot of money.

 

[hemo memo]

Agreed. I know Colin is a very passionate guy, but he is super close to the Sony ecosystem and knows most of the first party devs personally. And he wouldn't put a tweet out like that without it being genuine sources. Rather than just one bloody dev!

I'm not happy about this either and whilst I was open to the idea originally, after a bit more thought on the whol ps4k i'll probably just stick to the ps4 until it's unsupported and just buy my games on my PC from then on.

Also why are so many people saying tech is moving super quick in the gaming space these days? Yes VR is and it isn't going to capture the public's imagination any time soon, but I'm not seeing anything else this gen that is pushing the consoles to their absolute limit that this new model is required. I personally believe the iterative model of other tech can coexist with a console generation just like it has for the past god knows how many years.

That's my take anyway.

Yes and that's why the "it's just a one guy tweet, lol game jonralzzm" is nonsense. He's more connected to developers than anyone on here.

 

[DoctorEkkoUK]

My prediction is that we will see a lot of lazy "enhanced" edition games where the devs just turn up one setting such as resolution or texture depth for the more powerful sytem.

 

[mushrambio]

Until we get a proper Sony reveal/PR mention of the NEO, everything said about the rumors and speculations are going to be hyperbole. And for that, Colin's qualms of the mid-gen upgrade, and comments on "most" devs not being happy with it can be taken as such. For someone as passionate and enamored with the Playstation brand, I understand how he feels slighted in a sense because it goes against everything Sony has ever done in the past as a console (and handheld)-centric platform.

From this week's Podcast, one point I took away hardest was that he thinks it'll be divisive within the PS4 community because early adopters "get the middle finger" in terms of the version of games, where the newer iterations will benefit from a more polished and "better" product. I'm kind of on the other side of that understanding though, yet I understand where he's coming from. Everyone is getting the same game, yet you have a choice to make it look "better" if you have this new piece of hardware. Is that unfair to early adopters? Perhaps. Maybe not. It doesn't affect me though because I don't have the necessary things (4k TV) to benefit fully from this.

I think because of the fast-paced incremental upgrades we've been getting in recent years with a lot of tech, I think it doesn't make the most business sense to not follow this model (or a factor of it) at some point or another. Was it too soon? Probably; the PS4 is selling like hot cakes, with no slow down in sight. But we don't know what's happening internally at Sony, and perhaps their game plan with this makes sense when they finally reveal their ultimate plan. But who knows, they are in the business of making money, and if it's in their best interest financially, they are going to do it. You can only be "For the Players" for so long, but you also need to make money at some point.

 

[Kintaro]

Why can't people understand this?

Because there have been examples in the industry that make people hesitate.

1) Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS. Sure, it "plays" on 3DS...but its clearly designed for N3DS' increased power. Toss in Xenoblade Chronicles being only for N3DS as well.

2) XB360 4GB models vs. Models with HDDs. - This goes back to the "Just buy the cheaper one" mentality. Tons of people did. Then games started coming out which requires more memory. Memory the 4GB systems didn't have. Which forced people to either buy add on hard drives/memory sticks or simply skip the game. GTAV included. Call of Duty included. Etc. This burned a lot of buyers.

This is an industry which has shown time and time again that it will stoop to some very low levels to get money and for some reason since Sony says it (they haven't said a thing though to be honest) we should believe them and any hesitation is unwarranted? Come on man.