Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"

pastrami said:
The PS4 is now $349. I guess early adopters (like myself) should demand that the PS4s sold at $349 should have been downclocked to match it's new price.

Technology improves, prices drop, get over it. I'm not going to cry because people are able to buy bigger TVs for less than what I paid for my smaller one years ago,
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What a shitty analogy
 
Am i missing something here. Is the PS4K a different architecture or something. I was under the impression that it's just upgraded GPU and faster ram. heck the cpu is the same just overclocked. How much extra work is it. I could see an issue if a game is already done and you need to patch it in last minute but going forward wouldn't it be easy just to make your game with the upgraded specs and downscale for the OG ps4?
 
hemo memo said:
Yes and that's why the "it's just a one guy tweet, lol game jonralzzm" is nonsense. He's more connected to developers than anyone on here.
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Didn't we also have a Shinobi tweet stating devs are unhappy and a dev interview where the developer said it would be a headache?
 
hemo memo said:
Yes and that's why the "it's just a one guy tweet, lol game jonralzzm" is nonsense. He's more connected to developers than anyone on here.
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Your joking right since we have devs on here who speak about this .
Some are going to like this other won't but saying most is nonsense right now.
 
Audioboxer said:
I'll keep harping on IMO this is the real driver for them here. 2 years is MORE than an eternity in this new VR market that will go gangbusters tech wise going forward right now with increasing VR complexity and new experiences.

Even if the Sony HQ simply wanted to test the water with iterative consoles without VR, undoubtedly trying to stay relevant in the upcoming VR market really is the push causing them to do this IMO. Without a doubt VR experiences are the brickwall devs may well come back to Sony about in the next year or two and say sorry bro, our game will not work on the original PS4 well enough for us to make a version of it for you. That is the fear that causes PSVR to die out before the PS5 can hit our shelves.
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But doesn't every game have to work on both the NEO and the original PS4? I don't see how the NEO will help in this situation. A dev that can't make a VR game work on the original PS4 still won't be able to make it work on the original PS4.
 
Kintaro said:
Because there have been examples in the industry that make people hesitate.

1) Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS. Sure, it "plays" on 3DS...but its clearly designed for N3DS' increased power. Toss in Xenoblade Chronicles being only for N3DS as well.

2) XB360 4GB models vs. Models with HDDs. - This goes back to the "Just buy the cheaper one" mentality. Tons of people did. Then games started coming out which requires more memory. Memory the 4GB systems didn't have. Which forced people to either buy add on hard drives/memory sticks or simply skip the game. GTAV included. Call of Duty included. Etc. This burned a lot of buyers.

This is an industry which has shown time and time again that it will stoop to some very low levels to get money and for some reason since Sony says it (they haven't said a thing though to be honest) we should believe them and any hesitation is unwarranted? Come on man.
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This. There have been enough recent examples of early adopters getting screwed over by the industry for people to look at this without rose colored glasses.
 
gundamkyoukai said:
Your joking right since we have devs on here who speak about this .
Some are going to like this other won't but saying most is nonsense right now.
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We do have devs on here. That still doesn't change the fact that Moriarty most likely still has many more contacts in the industry that GAF does.
 
nycgamer4ever said:
How much extra work is it. I could see an issue if a game is already done and you need to patch it in last minute but going forward wouldn't it be easy just to make your game with the upgraded specs and downscale for the OG ps4?
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That's actually a ton of work.
 
Bots are better than you said:
Yeah, devs under NDA can't and/or won't talk, that is the very reason why NDAs exist. Your disbelieve about that implies that you're not getting this. Also, who said that the Oddworld guy is under a NDA and/or having a devkit?

And come E³, you will see many devs saying how great this PS4K and more fragmentation is, that's called marketing. Want me to dig out the crap EA and Ubisoft were saying at the Wii U announcement at E³ 2012?

With this, i consider our conversation finished, as i have better things to do than arguing with a person that won't change his stance, won't accept that there are negative aspects of this intermediate hardware stuff, and just won't accept that possibly a large junk of devs and gamers don't like this move.
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No, I won't change my stance, and I also don't believe Moriarty, onus is on him to prove what he said...."That MOST devs are opposed to PS4k". You take his word for it unproven, I don't, it's as simple as that. It's also clear that more people we know as devs are fully supporting this mid-gen upgrade via their internet persona, and that's weighing more in the favour of support than opposition at this point. We all know the big guys are on board and will support Neo, so I don't see how you are so headstrong about this.

Also you can't claim that when devs say that they fully support Neo at E3, that it will be all marketing and BS, when they actually say it to a camera...., but fully believe a source of a source, who "can't reveal identities due to NDA". You are already shooting down any positive feedback NEO will receive and calling it a lie, that's pretty disingenuous on your part and it seems your stance would remain unchanged even in the face of real confirmations as opposed to vapour at the moment. I say you should probably take a look as how you come across here. In any case, we'll wait for E3 to see how this pans out. I'm sure Sony will have several devs showing support for Neo on stage......but these guys would be faking their enthusiasm I guess..../s
 
nycgamer4ever said:
Am i missing something here. Is the PS4K a different architecture or something. I was under the impression that it's just upgraded GPU and faster ram. heck the cpu is the same just overclocked. How much extra work is it. I could see an issue if a game is already done and you need to patch it in last minute but going forward wouldn't it be easy just to make your game with the upgraded specs and downscale for the OG ps4?
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Sanity would be devving for the base option and then adding flourish for the other SKU. If you start with the higher one first you might paint yourself into a corner.
 
nycgamer4ever said:
Am i missing something here. Is the PS4K a different architecture or something. I was under the impression that it's just upgraded GPU and faster ram. heck the cpu is the same just overclocked. How much extra work is it. I could see an issue if a game is already done and you need to patch it in last minute but going forward wouldn't it be easy just to make your game with the upgraded specs and downscale for the OG ps4?
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That's the basic gist yes.

Dash_Riprock said:
Its 32X all over again.

History Repeats and all that.
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This literally has nothing to do with 32X. You dont need to buy anything besides the unit, and the unit itself is compatible with every game. I don't understand this hyperbole
 
Plinko said:
We do have devs on here. That still doesn't change the fact that Moriarty most likely still has many more contacts in the industry that GAF does.
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Does he have more contacts than Matt or Gopher ?
Point is both can be right but saying one more right than other makes no sense.
Time will tell as we get closer to launch .
 
AAK said:
That's actually a ton of work.
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But if you are doing a game from scratch with those specs in mind is that any different than if you did it with the OG specs in mind? I can't believe we have developers complaining about more power. I remember back in the ps3 days all developers ever did was complain about the ps3. Everyone wants the easy way. I think this should help separate the good developers from the mediocre. Although I feel for the small one and the indies with limited resources.
 
Kintaro said:
Because there have been examples in the industry that make people hesitate.

1) Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS. Sure, it "plays" on 3DS...but its clearly designed for N3DS' increased power. Toss in Xenoblade Chronicles being only for N3DS as well.

2) XB360 4GB models vs. Models with HDDs. - This goes back to the "Just buy the cheaper one" mentality. Tons of people did. Then games started coming out which requires more memory. Memory the 4GB systems didn't have. Which forced people to either buy add on hard drives/memory sticks or simply skip the game. GTAV included. Call of Duty included. Etc. This burned a lot of buyers.

This is an industry which has shown time and time again that it will stoop to some very low levels to get money and for some reason since Sony says it (they haven't said a thing though to be honest) we should believe them and any hesitation is unwarranted? Come on man.
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Your examples are....
1) A handheld game from Nintendo
2) Microsoft's Xbox 360 which did not have an internal HDD.

Show me a example where Sony made something like this?
You won't find one for the PS1, PS2, PS3. We are talking about a PS4K with a 'small' spec upgrade. It's not like PS4 is missing internal memory / a whole HDD and the PS4K has one. We're talking about a small spec upgrade.
PS4 = Standard
PS4K = Game looks/performs a bit better

That's it.

Dash_Riprock said:
Its 32X all over again.

History Repeats and all that.
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Not at all.
 
Envelope said:
I'm hoping most consumers would be unhappy with this as well
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This isn't that far removed from what cell phones have been doing for years. I also know many people who happily bought up the "slim" and "elite" versions of the same console they already owned because they wanted a new box. Now that box will have better performance... I think folks will actually be happy to have the option.
 
Envelope said:
I'm hoping most consumers would be unhappy with this as well
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This I don't understand. Are they going to stop making games for Ps4? It doesn't sound like this is a mandatory upgrade and every game coming out on it will still be made for the Og model. It's an option, just like upgrading to a new GPU on PC is an option. I don't become unhappy when I think that there are computers out there that are more powerful than mine.

I understand that this kind of goes against what traditional consoles stand for but times are changing. Things are different now. I mean at least they aren't abandoning the OG model. Nintendo is basically doing the same thing only it's a whole new system and they will be leaving behind the WiiU.
 
DSix said:
Yup, the only ones who want this are Sony and Sony alone.
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The back and forth discussions in this topic and the many others ones already prove you wrong. There are plenty of gaffers who want this.
It would be good if most developers just said NO and kept to og PS4 only.
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They won't be able to. Games have to pass Sony certification to release on the ps4. Sony will reject any ps4 game that doesn't have a Neo mode starting from October.
 
DSix said:
Yup, the only ones who want this are Sony and Sony alone. It would be good if most developers just said NO and kept to og PS4 only.
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I neither want or not want it, given that I do not have a 4K TV and am happy with my PC/ PS4 combo atm.

But your assertion is patently false. Even long before the PS4K was even rumored I was seeing cries for a more powerful PS4, or even a much much shorter (4yrs) gen.

If anything, Sony saw a demand and decided to fulfill it, while maintaining PS4 relevance via compatibility and a mandate to devs.
 
farisr said:
The back and forth discussions in this topic and the many others ones already prove you wrong. There are plenty of gaffers who want this. They won't be able to. Games have to pass Sony certification to release on the platform. Sony will reject any game that doesn't have a Neo version starting from October.
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I thought NEO wasn't forced?
 
Kintaro said:
Because there have been examples in the industry that make people hesitate.

1) Hyrule Warriors Legends on 3DS. Sure, it "plays" on 3DS...but its clearly designed for N3DS' increased power. Toss in Xenoblade Chronicles being only for N3DS as well.

2) XB360 4GB models vs. Models with HDDs. - This goes back to the "Just buy the cheaper one" mentality. Tons of people did. Then games started coming out which requires more memory. Memory the 4GB systems didn't have. Which forced people to either buy add on hard drives/memory sticks or simply skip the game. GTAV included. Call of Duty included. Etc. This burned a lot of buyers.

This is an industry which has shown time and time again that it will stoop to some very low levels to get money and for some reason since Sony says it (they haven't said a thing though to be honest) we should believe them and any hesitation is unwarranted? Come on man.
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You don't even have a Sony example? lolol
 
rrc1594 said:
I thought NEO wasn't forced?
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It is. Sony requires a neo mode for any game releasing october onwards. The only stupilation is that it can't run worse than the regular ps4 version. So, yeah, Sony's not going to force devs to make upgrades, but it'll still have to be on par and devs will still have to have a "neo mode" functional to pass certification for that aspect in order to keep on releasing games.
 
planetsmasherx1 said:
They wouldn't have a choice. These are the now de facto devkits likely with scaling hardware inside one unit. If you don't support the recommended spec then your basically fucked. They have no choice.
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There's always a choice. Sony is not holding a gun to the devs head saying you must code for the NEO and give us these stellar graphics that use 100% of Neo hardware. By pure bruteforce Neo code should outperform PS4 code without much tinkering in any case. It's the same architecture, only that you have to offer two profiles, I'm pretty sure the SDK software streamlines this pretty easily. Now, if a dev really wants to make his efforts shine to the best console hardware, he will optimize, get settings on max and go the extra mile on NEO. That will happen too, I'm just saying Sony is not pressuring any dev to do so.

I'll tell you what will force devs hands though....., when a certain multiplat developer starts putting some really nice looking Neo code out there, 60fps max settings, nice AA etc.. and they get due reward in sales as opposed to the lacklustre efforts, that will no doubt exist, devs who do not want to do the extra work will understand that such a stance has more downfalls for their bottom end as opposed to benefits.

I will also say, any dev that's reluctant to utilizing the extra power of the Neo, will most likely not be the best optimizer on vanilla either.....if a dev is complaining on two profiles on x86 arch.....then I'd firmly plant my stake in developers who want to use or maximize the power of all platforms, as per their power threshold instead.
 
Plinko said:
We do have devs on here. That still doesn't change the fact that Moriarty most likely still has many more contacts in the industry that GAF does.
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Does Moriarty have more dev contacts in the industry than Sony...? surely Sony spoke to devs about the NEO......even on the low scale, how about the AV club guy? how are you going to quantify the Avclubs dev network to that of Moriarty. Just so you know, apart from Gaf, lots of devs post on B3D.
 
Funkyhamster said:
But doesn't every game have to work on both the NEO and the original PS4? I don't see how the NEO will help in this situation. A dev that can't make a VR game work on the original PS4 still won't be able to make it work on the original PS4.
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Standard games as these make sense, and it appeases the masses. VR? No chance, Sony will break that rule the second it allows them to get something in VR a dev couldn't do otherwise.
 
Wiped89 said:
I can understand it from a dev's point of view, actually.

You make your game for PS4. You're making it for those 40 million (or is it 60 now?) PS4 owners. You're then forced by Sony to make two versions of that same game. Even if it's easy to scale it a bit, you're forced to spend extra time making both, but you aren't allowed to charge more for the PS4K version or re-release PS4K remasters or whatever. Effectively you have to make two versions for the same RRP as you used to make one version.

Edit: To the poster above, Melciah, I own all three consoles and am a PS fan first and foremost, but I must admit PS4 has the worst games lineup of the three right now. I wish it wasn't the case.
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Do they feel the same way about having to make two versions of the same game today? Like.....................with the Xbox One and PS4 versions?
 
thelastword said:
Does Moriarty have more dev contacts in the industry than Sony...? surely Sony spoke to devs about the NEO......even on the low scale, how about the AV club guy? how are you going to quantify the Avclubs dev network to that of Moriarty. Just so you know, apart from Gaf, lots of devs post on B3D.
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I understand this. I don't believe that all devs hate this idea.

I just can't stand seeing the ridiculous "well, we've got one dev here who says otherwise therefore Colin is garbage and his opinion is garbage" reactions. It is beyond ludicrous.
 
Just listined to the PS I love you podcast. And he actually thinks giving gamers more options. Some how is fucking gamers over.
 
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