Uh, you might want to sit down for this......http://www.newsarama.com/comics/howard-mackie-second-wave-ravagers-120116.html
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COMICS! #8 / January 2012 - Happy New Year, Comic Book GAF!
- Thread starter ElNarez
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Uh, you might want to sit down for this......http://www.newsarama.com/comics/howard-mackie-second-wave-ravagers-120116.html
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I've seen his originals in person and they're really incredible. But in print, it loses a lot of detail and it just looks like weird cartooning. And it's not the best fit for this book, I think.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Well at least Rob Liefeld isn't doing a book with Tony Daniel
I'd like to stand on Ramos. After I kicked his ass for ruining otherwise great comics.
I know he's a love it or hate it artist, but boy do I still wish he got more hate. He can do some stuff alright, but his exaggerated anatomy makes me want to scream.
Urban Scholar
Member
Oh my, what a cover!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I run hot and cold on Ramos. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was gone, and I don't think he can draw action worth a damn. But from the preview, he's looking good.
I love the easter eggs and obscure references Slott throws in here, like the banana thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlRrbGSBya0
I actually like Ramos on Spider-man. I think his style fits that character better than most.
OK, I have been catching up on post BND Spidey and I am still not feeling Slott... I am a few issues away from Spider-Island (which Comic-GAF seems to love), but does his writing pick up, or will Spider-Island be more of what I have been reading?
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
i believe ellis is done on that book, next up is Remender of UXF fame, and he's bringing Venom with him
.Inconsistent. Can be outright terrible, can be good. Not stellar though.
i believe ellis is done on that book, next up is Remender of UXF fame, and he's bringing Venom with him
having remender on that book would be a dream come true in almost every scenario but this
it was basically as close to planetary as any mainstream marvel book has come
Spider Island is a good and harmless story but I hardly consider it required reading. Ramos' art on it is some of the worst I've seen recently, and the story is just as well summed up in a Wikipedia paragraph.
The best part of it were the mostly unrelated minis. Deadly Hands of Kung Fu and especially the Cloak and Dagger tie in from Nick Spencer and Emma Rios. Both were exceptional but C&D blew my mind and made me super depressed that there's no ongoing.
Ed: Oh yeah, I forgot about Spider-Island Avengers #1. That issue alone practically justifies the entire event.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm mostly positive on Ellis Secret Avengers, but last issue was meh, and had some of the worst Steve Rogers characterization I've read in a long ass time. Bring on the Remender.
I'm so behind on my Marvel comics.... The only books I am completely up to date with are Fantastic Four, Uncanny X-Force, and WatXM. General consensus seems to be that Venom, Daredevil, and Ellis' Secret Avengers are worth reading. Do I need to bother with the rest of Brubaker's SA run? I read the first arc with Nova, but have lapsed on all the Avengers titles since then.
ya, cap was really weird from the get-go when he basically held the employees at gunpoint
but the whole escape with the 3 teams converging at once was just hnnnng
For as much as I like a lot of the stuff Marvel is currently doing I'm reading nothing Avengers related (I was never big on the main Marvel chars like Cap, Iron Man, Thor, etc). I'm seriously thinking about jumping on Secret Avengers when Remender starts though since UXF and Venom are two of my favorites.
I'm kind of scared this is going to open a door for me that I'd rather stay shut. I can only handle so many $4 books a week and Marvel has already overtaken DC most week for me.
I'm kind of scared this is going to open a door for me that I'd rather stay shut. I can only handle so many $4 books a week and Marvel has already overtaken DC most week for me.
I've heard that Brubaker's run wasn't that great and that the title didn't really pick up till Ellis took over. That said, I'm really looking forward to Remender's run on the title.
Mac the KNife
Member
Only downside to Remender taking over Secret Avengers is that after the first arc, it's going to be a tie-in to Avengers vs. X-Men event.
Ya, Ed's was real bad, I didn't even finish it
wasn't a fan of Spencer's four issues either
That's a bummer in that it undermines his ability to start crafting a long form narrative like the epic that has been UXF. At the same time I'm going to be pretty heavily invested in AvX anyways, so making sure there's some Remender quality in there is assuring.
Remender seems to have exciting plans for Secret and Cap. Britain.
Father_Brain
Banned
That's a bummer in that it undermines his ability to start crafting a long form narrative like the epic that has been UXF. At the same time I'm going to be pretty heavily invested in AvX anyways, so making sure there's some Remender quality in there is assuring.
I trust that Remender is a good enough writer to know how to use a crossover event to advance his own storylines, instead of having it feel like a complete detour. In fact, he was probably given a choice whether or not to do one in SA, seeing as UXF isn't.
Spike Spiegel
Member
My list for the week:
DC Comics
Batman #5
Tiny Titans #48
Marvel Comics
Daredevil #8
Generation Hope #15
Thunderbolts #169
Uncanny X-Force #20
Uncanny X-Men #5
Other Publishers
Conan Road of Kings #12
Lord of the Jungle #1
DC Comics
Batman #5
Tiny Titans #48
Marvel Comics
Daredevil #8
Generation Hope #15
Thunderbolts #169
Uncanny X-Force #20
Uncanny X-Men #5
Other Publishers
Conan Road of Kings #12
Lord of the Jungle #1
Urban Scholar
Member
So how is Moonknight?
Mac the KNife
Member
Brandon Graham. I'm sold.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Ramos is the shit
Spike Spiegel
Member
The Take Out Bandit
Member
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Oh, Liefeld is going to be back on Youngblood with John McLaughlin (Black Swan) writing.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
Ramos is cool
Liked him since Impulse. Crimson and Out There too
Liked him since Impulse. Crimson and Out There too
Oh, Liefeld is going to be back on Youngblood with John McLaughlin (Black Swan) writing.
are you joking about youngblood? how does that series keep coming back?
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Eeeehhhh, I think Red Hood is OK but I don't think it's amazing. It has been fairly good though, Kenneth Rocafort has been decent. I loved that arrow through the face in the last issue, and the bit with Jason's memory was very sweet too. But still, the book isn't doing anything I've not seen before.
Also, Ramos on Impulse pretty much defined my childhood, so he's a-OK in my book. I wish he'd draw that character again, if Bart still existed
The Take Out Bandit
Member
If I were joking I'd type something like, "Final Crisis is the best cross over I've read in the past decade."
Something like that.
Ditto on Ramos on Impulse. Still pisses me off poor Bart was one of the unlucky lamestream comic characters chosen to magically age. >:|
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
But... it was the best crossover in a decade... right?? The best one since the sublime DC One Million (which is still better than anything published ever).
What else can compete with Final Crisis for best crossover of the 00s? It's the only one I can think of that was actually saying something real about the actual human experience. Most other crossovers are just continuity wank-fests with the punchy punchy. Final Crisis has that amazing "To be continued" page that still gives me chills thinking about it. And it was actually saying something really relevant and interesting about our age and the media culture. And that ending may have come out of left field but I love that the whole thing is a battle between the ink and the page, it's about the very struggle of creativity itself, so cool.
Come on TTOB, put your monkey where your mouth is
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
But... it was the best crossover in a decade... right?? The best one since the sublime DC One Million (which is still better than anything published ever).
What else can compete with Final Crisis for best crossover of the 00s? It's the only one I can think of that was actually saying something real about the actual human experience. Most other crossovers are just continuity wank-fests with the punchy punchy. Final Crisis has that amazing "To be continued" page that still gives me chills thinking about it. And it was actually saying something really relevant and interesting about our age and the media culture. And that ending may have come out of left field but I love that the whole thing is a battle between the ink and the page, it's about the very struggle of creativity itself, so cool.
Come on TTOB, put your monkey where your mouth is
You know I'VE got your back.
Ahh, final crisis supporters, how I love them. I felt that final crisis was a wasted effort. The true human experience? Yeah, I didn't get that from the series. A wasted darkseid resurrection, vampires, and a japanese superteam only seemed to exist to me to in the end tell another batman story. It felt phoned in with the bleak nature, and about the only arc of the epic that I enjoyed was snapper carrs spy adventures with cheetah.But... it was the best crossover in a decade... right?? The best one since the sublime DC One Million (which is still better than anything published ever).
What else can compete with Final Crisis for best crossover of the 00s? It's the only one I can think of that was actually saying something real about the actual human experience. Most other crossovers are just continuity wank-fests with the punchy punchy. Final Crisis has that amazing "To be continued" page that still gives me chills thinking about it. And it was actually saying something really relevant and interesting about our age and the media culture. And that ending may have come out of left field but I love that the whole thing is a battle between the ink and the page, it's about the very struggle of creativity itself, so cool.
Come on TTOB, put your monkey where your mouth is
I don't know if I can say what series was the best of The decade. But I can say for certain that, final crisis, identity crisis, and that shit civil war are not nominations for best to me. Actually looking, the only series that didn't bore me was infinite crisis, so I guess that's my pic.
I heard Bendis reconned Wonderman
So that he never really came back, he was still just a dream of Scarlet Witch's.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
All crossovers are shit.
Come on TTOB, put your monkey where your mouth is
That's not sanitary! D:
Everything one would ever need to know about the New Gods is laid out in the Kirby's 11 issues of New Gods. If your name isn't Jack Kirby, then you can fuck right off with that bullshit. Final Crisis is an even bigger abortion within that context.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Darkseid was amazing! So creepy and nasty. It's about despair personified, writ large in four-colour glory. Darkseid is that voice in the back of your head that calls you a loser. He's the news and its mantra of 'no future', of peak oil, of the 'current economic climate', of corrupt politicians and America as fundamentalist theocracy.
There's an extended section, I think it's at the end of #3, about the industrialisation of despair and when I read it I knew at once that it had perfectly nailed what I was feeling but could never articulate, about how the media and industry and the drudgery of the work week all mixed up together go to sucking away your soul. The story becomes totally bleak for a while, this black hole of hope with Darkseid at the centre.
And then when it can't get any worse the heroes start to regroup and come back more multi-coloured and ridiculous and fantastic than ever. The whole idea that Superman wins the day with a song is just magical and kind of perfect. Music is the antidote to depression (for me at least).
And at the same time, it was Morrison trying to inject colour and the fantastic back into comics as a whole with this infusion of new characters and mile-a-minute hyper compression. What I love about Morrison is that he tries to sprinkle new concepts and characters into all his comics, hoping that others will come along and pick up the baton. Often they're ignored, like with the Ultramarines or the Super Young Team, but sometimes they stick, like with Damian Wayne.
I totally agree that the ending was rushed and slightly garbled, but I appreciate what it was trying to do in presenting the ultimate battle between the void and the idea, maybe if only from an intellectual point by then.
But still, it's insanely ambitious, and if it only pulled off 50% of what it tried to acheive then it still acheived more than most fight-comics can even imagine.
But yeah come on people, what's better than this? Whiny emo-Boy-Prime punching the universe as Geoff Johns rages against comics fandom? Burny rapey Dr Light? Something by Mark fucking Millar?
Pssssh.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Amen to that. Yeah, that desolate sequence of oppression alongside Turpin succumbing to evil and ending with, I mean, OH MY GOD:
I mean come on. How can you even step to that??
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Another one of my favorite last pages.
Final Crisis delivers like no other series ever.
Final Crisis delivers like no other series ever.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Another one of my favorite last pages.
Final Crisis delivers like no other series ever.
Yes to both images! But even more so to this one because there's a tiny Chronovore inside that bullet! Fucking Morrison continuity is so satisfying.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
YUP!!!
That's my favorite bit.
Nothing touches Morrison at his best.
(See: Vimanarama, Panels 1 through 2,478)
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Please tell me you slogged through all of Invisibles.
Final Crisis is most of the concepts from Invisibles warmed over for superheroes.
Another reason it fell so flat. Keep your Vertigo work out of your superhero work Grant, it's what made your work in the 90's so memorable.
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