in the future Thanos is considered the greatest Avenger. I respect Hickman's crazy enough to see how far down the rabbit hole goes. Especially considering this book is going to lead to a major event
It's not super obvious to me one way or the other.
In a context where the choices are:
- don't do anything and let 2 universes disappear, along trillions.
- don't do anything and let other guys destroy your earth and the billions of people you were supposed to protect.
- fight off the other guys, destroy their earth and kill billions.
There's no right choice and not doing anything is making the first or second choice. Whatever they do, they will make a choice.
The bigger issue to me is that they put themselves in a position to choose in the first place. From the moment the illuminati put themselves above everyone else, they accepted to shoulder that burden, they stopped being heroes and became kings, which means their ethics shifted from those of a super hero whose duty is to save everyone and never kill anyone to those of a king whose duty is to do whatever it takes to protect his subjects.
If we believe the choice Namor made is unethical then the root issue here isn't they had to make a choice between the first 3 propositions, but that they chose to be kings.
The short of it is that I don't believe Namor's choice in issue 21 was immoral, I believe the immoral choice happened in issue 1, when they reformed the illuminati. Everything else is a result of that choice and they were lost as heroes from that very moment.
If anything, T'challa is a whiny motherfucker for complaining Namor stole a choice from them when it's their job as kings to do exactly that.
I'm curious to see how the other Avengers will solve that.
between Bruce and Dick. Every little quirk that you expect out of Grayson was there. Dick has accepted his role also because he wasn't all emo after they left which I'm so glad they didn't go that route.
That last panel was epic. Stupid gimmick month! I might skip a lot of DC books in September and use that money towards the cons.
So how are you guys feeling about Multiversity (he asks, having skipped the last ten pages)? I thought it was pretty good, about what I was expecting which itself is a bit disappointing because I wanted something unexpected. Morrison continuing to riff on the themes he introduced in Final Crisis, but spending half the issue buggering about in fauxMarvel was a bit of a wasted opportunity I think and it was a bit unclear what was going on with Thunderer - so in the 52 there are two similar Marvel analogues? Seems a bit of a waste of a universe to me.
Loved Captain Carrot and the multiverse League and I always enjoy the Ultima Thule (love that it's condensed music and looks like the Yellow Submarine, so neat). In terms of the team I thought they were not quite as amazing as the League of Supermen from Final Crisis but you can't have everything. Really dig how exclamatory and hyperbolic it was though, pure Morrison-on-11 volume to it.
He's really going to have to pull something special out of the bag with his haunted comic though - I like the "who's voice is this?" idea, very clever, and he's explored the idea of 2d time travel a lot in other works like the Filth but it would be cool to see if he can pull off something really unique within his oeuvre too.
Sometimes I feel that Morrison is a bit like the Eels (band). A great, unique style, but as his career progresses he's really hooked on the same chords and rhythms, leaving astute readers with a mild sense of deja vue.
I forgot the issue but it's from a recent Avengers world
when sunspot and cannonball go to the future they insult Thanos name and a bar full of angry aliens inform them that Thanos is a a hero around the cosmos and is considered the greatest avenger.
It's not super obvious to me one way or the other.
In a context where the choices are:
- don't do anything and let 2 universes disappear, along trillions.
- don't do anything and let other guys destroy your earth and the billions of people you were supposed to protect.
- fight off the other guys, destroy their earth and kill billions.
There's no right choice and not doing anything is making the first or second choice. Whatever they do, they will make a choice.
The bigger issue to me is that they put themselves in a position to choose in the first place. From the moment the illuminati put themselves above everyone else, they accepted to shoulder that burden, they stopped being heroes and became kings, which means their ethics shifted from those of a super hero whose duty is to save everyone and never kill anyone to those of a king whose duty is to do whatever it takes to protect his subjects.
If we believe the choice Namor made is unethical then the root issue here isn't they had to make a choice between the first 3 propositions, but that they chose to be kings.
The short of it is that I don't believe Namor's choice in issue 21 was immoral, I believe the immoral choice happened in issue 1, when they reformed the illuminati. Everything else is a result of that choice and they were lost as heroes from that very moment.
If anything, T'challa is a whiny motherfucker for complaining Namor stole a choice from them when it's their job as kings to do exactly that.
I'm curious to see how the other Avengers will solve that.
Sometimes I feel that Morrison is a bit like the Eels (band). A great, unique style, but as his career progresses he's really hooked on the same chords and rhythms, leaving astute readers with a mild sense of deja vue.
I can see that. He's a comic historian and every superhero series he writes is like a new thesis, not entirely his own work but he gives you his perspective on it. Characters like the Club of Heroes, or the scientist who Morrison turned into Dr. Hurt are all informed by the past. Knowing there is previous history in a lot of what he's writing gives his stories weight.
Going back after reading Multiversity, as I was flipping through the Superman Beyond Final Crisis issues, there are a few pages where it's flashing to a bunch of different Earths. If you look at these, it's pretty much a preview of where Multiversity is going. I wonder how much of this he's been planning since then or if it just fits with the direction he wants to take?
Question about the end of Multiversity:
Is Nix Uotan becoming Mandrakk, or some other kind of dark monitor?
I can see that. He's a comic historian and every superhero series he writes is like a new thesis, not entirely his own work but he gives you his perspective on it. Characters like the Club of Heroes, or the scientist who Morrison turned into Dr. Hurt are all informed by the past. Knowing there is previous history in a lot of what he's writing gives his stories weight.
Going back after reading Multiversity, as I was flipping through the Superman Beyond Final Crisis issues, there are a few pages where it's flashing to a bunch of different Earths. If you look at these, it's pretty much a preview of where Multiversity is going. I wonder how much of this he's been planning since then or if it just fits with the direction he wants to take?
Question about the end of Multiversity:
Is Nix Uotan becoming Mandrakk, or some other kind of dark monitor?
IIRC Multiversity was supposed to come out very shortly after FC but got pushed back for all sorts of reasons. It's definitely been in his head since 52, that much is obvious.
And yeah I get your point about history (one of the reasons I love his work, and one of the reasons the nu52 upsets me dearly), but he's definitely starting to repeat himself a bit. Hopefully it was just for the benefit of the furrowbrow'd normies to catch them up (lol good luck!) and he'll start exploring new ideas shortly.
So how are you guys feeling about Multiversity (he asks, having skipped the last ten pages)? I thought it was pretty good, about what I was expecting which itself is a bit disappointing because I wanted something unexpected. Morrison continuing to riff on the themes he introduced in Final Crisis, but spending half the issue buggering about in fauxMarvel was a bit of a wasted opportunity I think and it was a bit unclear what was going on with Thunderer - so in the 52 there are two similar Marvel analogues? Seems a bit of a waste of a universe to me.
Loved Captain Carrot and the multiverse League and I always enjoy the Ultima Thule (love that it's condensed music and looks like the Yellow Submarine, so neat). In terms of the team I thought they were not quite as amazing as the League of Supermen from Final Crisis but you can't have everything. Really dig how exclamatory and hyperbolic it was though, pure Morrison-on-11 volume to it.
He's really going to have to pull something special out of the bag with his haunted comic though - I like the "who's voice is this?" idea, very clever, and he's explored the idea of 2d time travel a lot in other works like the Filth but it would be cool to see if he can pull off something really unique within his oeuvre too.
Sometimes I feel that Morrison is a bit like the Eels (band). A great, unique style, but as his career progresses he's really hooked on the same chords and rhythms, leaving astute readers with a mild sense of deja vue.
I pretty much totally agree with all of this. I loved it, but all of it did seem very familiar.
But yeah, if he pulls off the "haunted comic" idea, that could be really cool. I thought that was the best part of the book since it's such a unique and crazy idea.
I spotted;
Captain America(Someone like him was at the start as well)
Black Widow
Hulk
Spiderman(it was the woman)
Captain Universe
The Thing
Mr. Fantastic
Human Torch
Hawkeye
Dr. Doom
Iron-man
and a few others
I wanna see a Comic based on Earth-8(New52) for the lols then I want it the other way around.
So how are you guys feeling about Multiversity (he asks, having skipped the last ten pages)? I thought it was pretty good, about what I was expecting which itself is a bit disappointing because I wanted something unexpected. Morrison continuing to riff on the themes he introduced in Final Crisis, but spending half the issue buggering about in fauxMarvel was a bit of a wasted opportunity I think and it was a bit unclear what was going on with Thunderer - so in the 52 there are two similar Marvel analogues? Seems a bit of a waste of a universe to me.
I can see that. He's a comic historian and every superhero series he writes is like a new thesis, not entirely his own work but he gives you his perspective on it. Characters like the Club of Heroes, or the scientist who Morrison turned into Dr. Hurt are all informed by the past. Knowing there is previous history in a lot of what he's writing gives his stories weight.
Going back after reading Multiversity, as I was flipping through the Superman Beyond Final Crisis issues, there are a few pages where it's flashing to a bunch of different Earths. If you look at these, it's pretty much a preview of where Multiversity is going. I wonder how much of this he's been planning since then or if it just fits with the direction he wants to take?
Question about the end of Multiversity:
Is Nix Uotan becoming Mandrakk, or some other kind of dark monitor?
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
I think Arkham Asylum is a great companion piece to Morrison's Joker prose story from his Batman run. Specifically Batman and Joker's relationship and transformations, both getting darker and grittier in the years leading up to and following this book. It lays the groundwork for a lot of themes in Batman and Son and R.I.P. like examining the mind and motivations of Batman.
I was confused when reading it at at first but I try to think of it as a bunch of cool ideas about the Batman universe. I felt sympathy for Two-Face and got an understanding of his mental illness for the first time. It gives some answers as to why some of these villains would be in an Asylum and not executed or something. They are sick in the head, and this book gives their character's depth.
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
Isn't that the point? A hallucinatory trip through the Asylum.
I can understand it might be really quite jarring if you've never seen Dave McKean's art previous to this though. Admittedly I haven't read it in some years.
I ordered my copy of Multiversity online through ebay yesterday, turned up at my office this morning which I wasn't expecting, had a chance to read it through during lunch. I liked it, I do feel like I'll need to read Final Crisis though. I have a vague understanding of what's going on but I'm missing a lot of the subtle nuances I feel. Will be picking the rest up though, just need to catch up on the backstory in the meantime.
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
It's pretty much the only Morrison book that I don't really like. Pretty, but not really that enjoyable as either a straight up story or as metaphor/allegory. I'd like to see a new version drawn by JHW3.
Yeah, I don't see how this will stick or play out.
The only character resolutions I see are cop-outs:
- blame it all on the Atlantean.
- put everyone involved to pasture in some way and have them come back later, all sins absolved.
- reset things somehow or ignore the storyline.
- have them all become anti-heroes or villains.
Well, apparently Tony gets all "Superior" in the new Iron Man, Reed is going through some serious shit with the FF, Beast seems to question himself all the time...
With the whole Axis event coming up, Thor becoming unworthy and other heroes facing some world destroying threat, I'd say the heroes get involved in some darker stuff.
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
The book is meant to be warped, dreamy, and uncomfortable. It's what Batman dreams about when he's sleeping. It's also an excellent and dark psychological take on Batman and some of his villains told alongside an Arkham origin story. Yeah, the handwritten look to the dialogue is fucking hard to read, and the art is muddled, but there's a solid story there that you'd be missing out on by brushing it off as an unreadable mess.
And if you want a real Morrison failure, check out Fantastic Four 1234. Holy fuckballs.
reminder: Cape-Comics are dead as of November. Aren't the Multiversity enemies just going to be a hackneyed "They are the internet trolls! The haters!" jobby? Is Axis the worst comic book event possibly ever devised? Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeead.
Also, since that stupid Spider-Woman cover is getting net-wide coverage to ensure more Greg Land shit sells as "car crash" stuff, i ducked my head into the thread and finally realised what the She-Hulk art that banished it from my pull reminded me of:
Also, since that stupid Spider-Woman cover is getting net-wide coverage to ensure more Greg Land shit sells as "car crash" stuff, i ducked my head into the thread and finally realised what the She-Hulk art that banished it from my pull reminded me of:
So I just read Supergirl #34, Superman Doomed tie-in (Last Sun: chapter 3)
... idk,, I just did not really enjoy that. Seemed very cheesy and just unnecessary.
One last chapter of the Superman Doomed story left! Superman: Doomed #2 (9/24)
did Rafa ever explain why The Sixth Gun can be so good and all his Marvel books so bland...I mean besides the lack of Hurtt
I say this haven't not read Magneto yet, but between Avenging Spider-Man, Captain America And, Venom, and Wolverine, that nigga mekas Brian Wood comics seem exciting
I've been reading Final Crisis because of the sale.
I'm up to issue three and it's pretty good. Normally I'm not a big fan of massive cosmic stuff but this has hooked me nicely.
A lot of great moments in this issue, and I especially liked Alfred and Jason's little interaction.
The genuine moments between Lex and Bruce were really great, and the psychology behind the friendship/bonding is potentially really solid, but I'm just waiting for Lex to fuck everyone over.
I picked up the magazine version of The Fade Out and damn i loved it. Brubaker and Phillips are easily my favorite creative team. Reading the stuff in the back was a really interesting insight into their creative process especially how Sean takes and uses references of himself lol
As a non American this era of your country and hollywood has always fascinated me so to say they already have me hooked would be an understatement. I enjoyed the short piece by Devin Faraci and Eds talk about the blacklist which i had never heard about before today.
I was going to pick up Multiversity but the shops stock had came in damaged so i might get it tomorrow if i remember.
As a non American this era of your country and hollywood has always fascinated me so to say they already have me hooked would be an understatement. I enjoyed the short piece by Devin Faraci and Eds talk about the blacklist which i had never heard about before today.
So how are you guys feeling about Multiversity (he asks, having skipped the last ten pages)? I thought it was pretty good, about what I was expecting which itself is a bit disappointing because I wanted something unexpected. Morrison continuing to riff on the themes he introduced in Final Crisis, but spending half the issue buggering about in fauxMarvel was a bit of a wasted opportunity I think and it was a bit unclear what was going on with Thunderer - so in the 52 there are two similar Marvel analogues? Seems a bit of a waste of a universe to me.
Loved Captain Carrot and the multiverse League and I always enjoy the Ultima Thule (love that it's condensed music and looks like the Yellow Submarine, so neat). In terms of the team I thought they were not quite as amazing as the League of Supermen from Final Crisis but you can't have everything. Really dig how exclamatory and hyperbolic it was though, pure Morrison-on-11 volume to it.
He's really going to have to pull something special out of the bag with his haunted comic though - I like the "who's voice is this?" idea, very clever, and he's explored the idea of 2d time travel a lot in other works like the Filth but it would be cool to see if he can pull off something really unique within his oeuvre too.
Sometimes I feel that Morrison is a bit like the Eels (band). A great, unique style, but as his career progresses he's really hooked on the same chords and rhythms, leaving astute readers with a mild sense of deja vue.
Really glad to read this since I feel exactly the same. It's really the same story he's been telling for a very long time. The haunted comic aspect is a new wrinkle, but it's the same story, and he's also clearly running out of interesting personifications of the evil. The Gentry is the flat out lamest gaggle of Magic TGCG Common Cards I've ever seen.
I think Morrison has only had one failure in his life, and it's what happened to Arkham Asylum. A book that could have been incredible is an unreadable mess. If someone here appreciated it, please tell me why I should approach it again. The hand written dialogue, while gorgeous, make the story a hazy mess.
Maybe that's the idea? I'm not sure. But I wish it was better than it actually is.
You have to figure, with Morrison, he's going to go through some of the leit-motifs that he's been honing for the past 20+ years in something that he considers his DC magnum opus, but that doesn't mean he can't build on it, and evolve it, and make it something wholly fresh and new.
Also, is that Guide to Multiversity issue that we're getting a part of the numbered run, or an extra issue that we're getting?
You have to figure, with Morrison, he's going to go through some of the leit-motifs that he's been honing for the past 20+ years in something that he considers his DC magnum opus, but that doesn't mean he can't build on it, and evolve it, and make it something wholly fresh and new.
Also, is that Guide to Multiversity issue that we're getting a part of the numbered run, or an extra issue that we're getting?
The way I understood it was we get the two bookend issues, six one shots, and the guide for nine total issues. I may be completely wrong about that though.
The way I understood it was we get the two bookend issues, six one shots, and the guide for nine total issues. I may be completely wrong about that though.
It's super bullshit this is getting revealed in a shitty tie in and considering the theme if they frame it as Quill leaving Richie behind and not giving a shit for a year plus i think my eyes will roll out of my head. I think they've left it far too late for this to have any semblance of a satisfying end.
