Quality doesn't matter in this case
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COMICS! |OT| June 2016. The Manhattan Project
- Thread starter Tyrant Rave
- Start date
Quality doesn't matter in this case
I really enjoyed that book and continue to.
echoshifting
Banned
echoshifting
Banned
I am still not sold on the new Batman. I'm going to give it a couple of issues but given the way this issue turned out I'm not convinced I'll be with it much longer than that.
I'm not a big fan of Finch but I actually thought he was on point here. His art isn't as thrilling or dynamic as Capullo's, but I vastly prefer his faces, especially when they aren't trying to express any particular emotion (Capullo's "flat" faces always strike me as oddly impish). There is a gorgeous half-page spread of Batman in this book and all the action is clear and engaging.
The beginning of the story is great. It's nice to see
all back to their usual routines, and the disaster that sets things off is thrilling. It's really fun to watch Batman try to take on a challenge that is better-suited for the likes of Superman or Green Lantern...even if the ridiculous math thrown in about halfway through is kinda farfetched. At that point I was in for the ride so I totally believed it. This is how Batman handles this kind of shit. It worked for me.
But then. But then.
I feel like I can see where this entire story is going. I feel like it is all laid out before me. I'm going to give it a couple of issues to surprise me, but if it doesn't this book is dropped. I will miss it but man it has been such a letdown so far.
I generally don't rate books but I'm going to slap a 2.5/5 on this one. It's overrated.
I'm not a big fan of Finch but I actually thought he was on point here. His art isn't as thrilling or dynamic as Capullo's, but I vastly prefer his faces, especially when they aren't trying to express any particular emotion (Capullo's "flat" faces always strike me as oddly impish). There is a gorgeous half-page spread of Batman in this book and all the action is clear and engaging.
The beginning of the story is great. It's nice to see
Alfred, Jim and Batman
But then. But then.
So, Batman is on the back of this plane and Alfred kinda casually mentions that while he's going to save all the people on the plane - something he couldn't possibly be sure of incidentally, because it's a fucking plane crash - there is no way he can survive. Now, it's always going to be a challenge to actually convey a sense of peril for a main character in one of the biggest cape comics on shelves. If Batman were to die, it would be a big event; we would probably know about it well in advance because that's the way these things work now. That's why writers of these books so often have to rely on putting the people of the city in danger, or the supporting cast, because it's usually the only way to create that sense of peril.
And not only is this a big cape comic starring DC's #1 character who is also starring in other books...it's the first issue. Of COURSE nothing is going to happen to Batman. It is laughably ridiculous and King overplays the whole thing to the extreme, with Alfred and Batman exchanging what I guess is supposed to be a heartfelt goodbye but comes across as overdramatic and yawn-inducing.
Finally, to add insult to injury, Batman doesn't even save the fucking plane himself. All that cool Batstuff he did earlier in the issue amounts to nothing as Gotham and Gotham Girl - awful, awful names and bland design - literally swoop in to save the day and make him look like a fucking dunce.
Think how much cooler this issue would have been if Batman actually did save the day; if all his plans had worked out, he saved the city, he saved the plane, he didn't die and now he's on the trail of whoever shot that missile. That would have been a cool resolution. Instead we're stuck with these two lame-looking characters, who we've only seen for about one page and I already hate them. It feels like this entire issue was designed to give them a convenient introduction, because that's exactly what it was. Honestly I felt a little duped.
And not only is this a big cape comic starring DC's #1 character who is also starring in other books...it's the first issue. Of COURSE nothing is going to happen to Batman. It is laughably ridiculous and King overplays the whole thing to the extreme, with Alfred and Batman exchanging what I guess is supposed to be a heartfelt goodbye but comes across as overdramatic and yawn-inducing.
Finally, to add insult to injury, Batman doesn't even save the fucking plane himself. All that cool Batstuff he did earlier in the issue amounts to nothing as Gotham and Gotham Girl - awful, awful names and bland design - literally swoop in to save the day and make him look like a fucking dunce.
Think how much cooler this issue would have been if Batman actually did save the day; if all his plans had worked out, he saved the city, he saved the plane, he didn't die and now he's on the trail of whoever shot that missile. That would have been a cool resolution. Instead we're stuck with these two lame-looking characters, who we've only seen for about one page and I already hate them. It feels like this entire issue was designed to give them a convenient introduction, because that's exactly what it was. Honestly I felt a little duped.
I feel like I can see where this entire story is going. I feel like it is all laid out before me. I'm going to give it a couple of issues to surprise me, but if it doesn't this book is dropped. I will miss it but man it has been such a letdown so far.
I generally don't rate books but I'm going to slap a 2.5/5 on this one. It's overrated.
RepairmanJack
Member
^^ Right there with you, though I'm in for a while because I've been in love with King's writing so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and the Rebirth issue was probably more Snyder than him. I'd also give it a 3 over a 2.5 because partial scores are ridiculous.
echoshifting
Banned
RepairmanJack
Member
Okay, 5/10 then
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way.
I feel like I'm going to reread it because there could be some stuff I missed with the Kobra guy being knocked out and what not but overall that wouldn't really change my feelings much.
I somewhat think it could have been for a reason, but it still feels weird and dumb. I can't see King focusing so much space and time on retread and something we know won't happen if not for a reason. It just didn't convey any other reason, at least as far I could tell.
It does demand a certain level of respect.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment of the finale of that issue.
Batman's intelligence and finesse saved that plane. There's no telling what these two knob jobs would have done with it or how many buildings they may have wrecked to shit. They saved Batman's life, that's for sure, but saying that they rendered the whole enterprise pointless is a pretty cynical reading and not at all supported by the text.
Discotheque
Banned
nooooooooope.
that would be nice but it wouldn't be any better, potentially less interesting even tbh. with this ending we have batman practically proving to the reader that he's still got the chops but with those two goobers coming in last minute we can have batman confront some insecurities now.
also i think they gonna go heavy on the US-Iraq War allegories here too. hell, maybe they fired the missile.
echoshifting
Banned
That's a fair take, even if I respectfully disagree.
Maybe Batman saved the people in the city but he wasn't needed beyond that. For all we know Gotham and Gotham Girl were watching him work and could have swooped in at any time. The fact that they are utilized as a deus ex machina to save Batman made me skeptical of the need for the entire sequence.
And once he gets the plane out of range of crashing in the city, everything else he does is kind of a moot point. It robs the character of all sense of agency for no reason at all. It would have been a simple thing for Batman to surprise everyone, save the plane and himself while they watched from the shadows. Gotham and Gotham Girl could have analyzed the situation. "He did it," Gotham Girl says, surprised. "Maybe he doesn't need us."
"No," says Gotham, "but Gotham does."
TO BE CONTINUED
And once he gets the plane out of range of crashing in the city, everything else he does is kind of a moot point. It robs the character of all sense of agency for no reason at all. It would have been a simple thing for Batman to surprise everyone, save the plane and himself while they watched from the shadows. Gotham and Gotham Girl could have analyzed the situation. "He did it," Gotham Girl says, surprised. "Maybe he doesn't need us."
"No," says Gotham, "but Gotham does."
TO BE CONTINUED
edit: I think we're going to have to agree to disagree guys. I'm glad you all liked the issue, it just didn't click with me the way I thought it would.
RepairmanJack
Member
Yeah, he definitely saved the plane. It would have flown halfway down the first building if not for him. He was going to be the only casualty...supposedly.
I was more agreeing with the overall sentiment for the issue.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, 5/10 then
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way.
I agree that the intended big emotional moment didn't really hit with me either. For all the reasons you said, and because I was just waiting
for the flying people to show up.
RepairmanJack
Member
I'm not at home so can't look,
but am I imaging the Kobra guy knocked out with someone standing over him after the rocket was shot? I feel like there was obviously more to it, but not sure if there was more I missed.
echoshifting
Banned
No, that was all there was to it, except
I'm pretty sure the Kobra agent was killed by the Mysterious Figure.
I would generally agree with that, echo. I'm not quite as negative on it. But yeah the
wasn't emotionally resonating knowing that it's the first issue. We don't know THIS Batman yet, we aren't attached to KING'S Batman. It just didn't work for me. I was fine with
I also wasn't too happy with the art. A few panels/pages were awesome looking, but for the most part it wasn't exciting or beautiful or anything really.
Fake Edit: After finishing up that previous paragraph, I just re-read the first issue of Batman N52. Holy crap it was SO much better than this new one IMO. Kind of makes me retroactively look at the King issue worse.. The N52 #1 felt like the first chapter of a big story. This new #1 feels like yet another one shot, this time with a little cliffhanger ending reveal.
goodbye
Gotham Man and Gotham Girl, but they had it like a big reveal at the end of the issue, yet they're in full frame right on the cover of the issue!
Fake Edit: After finishing up that previous paragraph, I just re-read the first issue of Batman N52. Holy crap it was SO much better than this new one IMO. Kind of makes me retroactively look at the King issue worse.. The N52 #1 felt like the first chapter of a big story. This new #1 feels like yet another one shot, this time with a little cliffhanger ending reveal.
Discotheque
Banned
i just hope King can end his arcs better than Snyder can. With all of his stuff I really loved it as the arcs began and then as they progressed it got a bit disappointing imo. Still enjoyed it all though, good team with him and capullo.
echoshifting
Banned
This was such a bad decision, god. I'm not sure what they were thinking there. I admit it's possible I wouldn't have reacted so poorly to the ending if
these characters hadn't been on the fucking cover of the book.
Discotheque
Banned
the ending was a foregone conclusion as soon as you looked at the cover. i was assuming they were going to save the plane well before batman even enacted his plan tbh.
really silly to throw them on the cover.
really silly to throw them on the cover.
I truly cannot understand what they were thinking. The cover to this should have been the cover to issue #2.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
echoshifting
Banned
God I'm so sorry Rhak
That's terrible. Have you thought about getting a second opinion?God I'm so sorry Rhak
there are no second opinions, its a small town with 1 vet >_> shes in contact with other vets and sending the bloodworks and shit to the labs (not here) and they cant figure out because it might be a chronic thing, which would fit with his life because he always had problems, that we would fix at the time, and now that I think about, were probbaly band aids
like he would get these fevers sometimes, like every 8 months or something, but he would take medicine and be well again for example, and other little things, he was always a problematic dog. I even joked he was the runt of the litter...I guess he really WAS the runt of the litter :/
also, there's no dialysis here, only in Lisbon, and I cant afford to go to fucking Lisbon, or like send him there, I dont even know how that would work, I gotta see what happens. Hes still on medication, lets see what happens with the bloodwork I guess. One of my other dogs (I have 3), the oldest one now 10, developed diabetes last year, he's fine with the insulin since then, but yeah, a 10 year old dog plus the diabetes doesnt really bode well for the life expectancy, so I think I will have some rough times ahead in the near future.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
This exact thing happened to my girlfriend's dog a few weeks ago...she got into poison and her kidneys continued to decline. Check to make sure they haven't gotten into anything on your property....
I don't know if this has already been said, but I like Gamora's outfit in the most recent Guardians issue (as far as a contemporary Gamora design is concerned). It's a nice compromise between her movie look & her older designs.
Though overall, I'm kinda leaning towards her Infinity Gauntlet (Secret Wars) design.
Though overall, I'm kinda leaning towards her Infinity Gauntlet (Secret Wars) design.
echoshifting
Banned
Aww geez.
I don't know what to say except I'm sorry you're going through this. You are in my thoughts.BKatastrophe
Member
Her IG design was godlike.
No lies detected
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Starting to read New 52 Flash and saw that Barry's cellular service was provided by FM&B, with 5G service.
Does anyone know if that's significant to anything or just some random cellular service that was made up?
Does anyone know if that's significant to anything or just some random cellular service that was made up?
Francis Manapul & Brian Buccelato probably
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I wish Dustin Weaver had the Kris Anka Redesign Every Costume spot at Marvel. Look at that DETAIL.
(Although I also love Anka's designs)
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I'm running through Annihilation much faster than I thought I would. Last night I got through Super Skrull 1-4, Silver Surfer 1-4, and Annihilation 1 & 2. I should have it finished in the next couple of days.
After that I move on to Drifter 1-10. The goal is to have them done by Wednesday when the new issue of Drifter comes out. If it manages to hold my interest I'll start collecting it from there.
And yes that Gamora outfit from SW is pure awesome.
After that I move on to Drifter 1-10. The goal is to have them done by Wednesday when the new issue of Drifter comes out. If it manages to hold my interest I'll start collecting it from there.
And yes that Gamora outfit from SW is pure awesome.
I wish this was the case. The redesigns for the Guardians in Infinity Gauntlet were pretty much on-point (especially for Star-Lord & Gamora).
BKatastrophe
Member
I mean it helps that IG was easily one of the best SW tie-ins. Although Siege is still my favorite, along with Little AvX
I have to say respectfully I completely disagree with that criticism of King's Batman issue.
Really sorry man hope it works out.
We've got two small dogs and whenever one of them is sick it is so damn stressful....
the fact that it wasn't an 'event', dragged out over press releases and multiple issues and whatever is part of what made it so effective. Batman is extremely unlikely to 'die' permanently in either presentation. That's not what it's about. it totally captures the essence of the character in just a few pages: saving his city and readily sacrificing himself to do so, using his intelligence and the network of 'family' he has built to help the city, having the abilities of the rest of the universes big guns available but not something he in any way relies or counts on, how of course his parents have shaped his life, etc. etc. I thought it was exceptionally well done.
You know he's not going to 'die', you know these two new faces are going to show up, you know they offer a conflict in how they handle things. Getting there was more important than the reveal.
And as far as 'Gotham man renders him pointless'...well that's pretty much the point. The issue beautifully set up the very questions and conflict this arc looks like it wants to address.
You know he's not going to 'die', you know these two new faces are going to show up, you know they offer a conflict in how they handle things. Getting there was more important than the reveal.
And as far as 'Gotham man renders him pointless'...well that's pretty much the point. The issue beautifully set up the very questions and conflict this arc looks like it wants to address.
Really sorry man hope it works out.
We've got two small dogs and whenever one of them is sick it is so damn stressful....
echoshifting
Banned
I still disagree on the first point. It was ineffective and more importantly completely unearned this early in the run.
But I'm willing to concede the second point. That's an interesting takeaway from those last couple of pages. I can dig.
Exactly. Yeah,
we know he's not going to die, but that's not the point. There needs to be a real emotional weight regardless, and you simply can't have emotional weight for a character that early on. We're like in the first 2 minutes of the movie, or the prologue of a huge book. It's too early for me to feel anything. They haven't earned THAT scene yet.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Really agree with the spoilered.
I also really hope that they don't go the
They Were Really Evil All Along!!! route with Gotham and Gotham Girl. I don't think King would, but that's such a boring way to resolve the issue.
I'm still garbage with Hanzo despite getting some lucky kill shots, i put my camera sensitivity up to 50/40 because everyone moves so fast. Still badzo.
I'm going to get through some comics tonight while watching whatever the Cavs decide is basketball during Steph Curry's two hour nap. Freeza, Blizzard decided that i need to play alone and wiped my Social list clear, i presume it's a glitch as my friend's list is fine.
I'm going to get through some comics tonight while watching whatever the Cavs decide is basketball during Steph Curry's two hour nap. Freeza, Blizzard decided that i need to play alone and wiped my Social list clear, i presume it's a glitch as my friend's list is fine.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Ah, nice. Yeah, that would make sense.
whatsinaname
Member
That's because you didn't help him with his little problem in Novigrad.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I have my sensitivity at like 70 and that still feels a bit sluggish at time.
Freezasaurus
Member
My list is fine. Also just hit level 50.
I'm starting to realize why I prefer DC over Marvel..
When I read DC, I feel like I'm reading a fantasy universe, with these larger than life gods, It feels like a mythology in its self.... The characters actually feel like superheroes
When I read Marvel, it just feels like I'm reading a real world comic with superhero and fantasy elements in it... The characters don't really mythic or "heroes"
of course this is a reason many prefer Marvel, which is understandable, its just something I think i finally came to the realization of
When I read DC, I feel like I'm reading a fantasy universe, with these larger than life gods, It feels like a mythology in its self.... The characters actually feel like superheroes
When I read Marvel, it just feels like I'm reading a real world comic with superhero and fantasy elements in it... The characters don't really mythic or "heroes"
of course this is a reason many prefer Marvel, which is understandable, its just something I think i finally came to the realization of