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COMICS! |OT| March 2015. Warning: can be hazardous to your financial health.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
Baron von Loathsome
Member
"What's wrong with Ms. Marvel's [Kamala] costume?"
"Seriously? You have to ask?"
Nothing vague here.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Yikes, Justice League Unlimited has some awful, awful-looking CGI. The helicopters in this current episode, Fearful Symmetry, for instance.
And speaking of Fearful Symmetry, someone in the DCAU crew must really love William Blake.
And speaking of Fearful Symmetry, someone in the DCAU crew must really love William Blake.
What did you just say?
MHWilliams
Member
A great character design gives you insight to the character's personality and powerset.
Spider-Woman in particular:
What information does this costume impart? What insight to the character are we gaining?
At least here:
There's a big goddamn spider on the front, letting you know, "Hey, this is Spider-Somebody!" And the outfit is street-level superhero, allowing her to interact with normal people - a point of the new status quo - while also jumping into battle and looking like a goddamn heroine.
Jessica Drew's original outfit was always shit. The only "Spider" thing about it was the eyes, which were just cribbed from Spider-Man. You can argue that you liked the original outfit, but a great design?
Nah, man.
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
"CBA: Was that your one collaboration with Stan?
Dave: No. We went round and round about Ms. Marvel's costume, too. Remember she started with a female version of Captain Marvel's costume only with an open belly, and we all bitched about that because none of us could figure a
rationale for it. So they closed the belly opening, but we said, 'No, she needs another costume.' We hassled Stan about it for so long that he said, 'All right! If you think you're so smart, design a new one.' And I must have gone through 50 designs! Some of 'em I would xerox and try out in different colors, and Stan would go, 'No, no, no, no! Get that out of here." Finally I did the one with the lightning bolt and sash, and I took it to Stan who said, 'That's what you should have done from the start! That's what I like: Shiny leather and tits & ass!"
(From the Fall 1999 "Comic Book Artist," No. 6, page 31)
Dave: No. We went round and round about Ms. Marvel's costume, too. Remember she started with a female version of Captain Marvel's costume only with an open belly, and we all bitched about that because none of us could figure a
rationale for it. So they closed the belly opening, but we said, 'No, she needs another costume.' We hassled Stan about it for so long that he said, 'All right! If you think you're so smart, design a new one.' And I must have gone through 50 designs! Some of 'em I would xerox and try out in different colors, and Stan would go, 'No, no, no, no! Get that out of here." Finally I did the one with the lightning bolt and sash, and I took it to Stan who said, 'That's what you should have done from the start! That's what I like: Shiny leather and tits & ass!"
(From the Fall 1999 "Comic Book Artist," No. 6, page 31)
Baron von Loathsome
Member
World War Savage Dragon.
Serpentine
Banned
So who wants to make the Erik Larsen OT Thread
Anyway, Ninjak #1 is kinda my ideal comic on paper, but in practice, it's just pretty good. I hope they actually get around to showing more personality for the dude, 'cause it's not coming off strongly here. Weird that there's a scene where Ninjak has to get naked, but then they skip forward and he's not even shown at all. It's like they forgot they had Clay Mann drawing this thing. Cool start, hope it gets awesome.
please do not actually make a thread
Anyway, Ninjak #1 is kinda my ideal comic on paper, but in practice, it's just pretty good. I hope they actually get around to showing more personality for the dude, 'cause it's not coming off strongly here. Weird that there's a scene where Ninjak has to get naked, but then they skip forward and he's not even shown at all. It's like they forgot they had Clay Mann drawing this thing. Cool start, hope it gets awesome.
Sounds about how I'd think it'd go
Filthy Slug
Crowd screaming like hounds at the heat of the chase/ All the colors of the rainbow flood my face
Is this Stan of the Lee variety?
I like it very much! One of my favourite costumes. How does Cyclops costume tell us that he can shot laserbeams from his eyes due his costume? How does Flashs costume inform me, that he is super fast? It doesnt. It it doesnt matter.A great character design gives you insight to the character's personality and powerset.
Spider-Woman in particular:
What information does this costume impart? What insight to the character are we gaining?
At least here:
There's a big goddamn spider on the front, letting you know, "Hey, this is Spider-Somebody!" And the outfit is street-level superhero, allowing her to interact with normal people - a point of the new status quo - while also jumping into battle and looking like a goddamn heroine.
Jessica Drew's original outfit was always shit. The only "Spider" thing about it was the eyes, which were just cribbed from Spider-Man. You can argue that you liked the original outfit, but a great design?
Nah, man.
And when Jessicas costume was always shitty, how does it come that they just changed it recently, Jessica has gotten a bigger role in the Marvel universe 10 years ago with New Avengers - when it was so shitty, why didnt they changed it back then? I think it some internet thing that her costume is shit. Similar like people began to hate return of the jedi since the internet told them that the movie is shit.
Freezasaurus
Member
Social injustices, man.
The man himself!
MHWilliams
Member
Cyclops' visor and red coloring is a reference to his power. Flash has goddamn lighting bolts. Are you being facetious?
Because no one cared? Bendis has been trucking with Jessica Drew for years. Without him, she barely got any use.
And I've always hated the costume. Other costumes I hated: Luke Cage and the tiara. Iron Fist with the high collar. Falcon with the open vest wrestler look. Ms. Marvel. Elektra. that's not trendyness, that's just hating crap costumes.
OK, who cares then now about her? I didnt noticed a sudden rise in her popularity in the internet boards.
And come on, these red visor and the small lightning bolts (I would rather suspect a character who controlls electricity like Electro when I wouldnt know the character...) are fucking small details. Kinda like her Spider eyes ;-)
And come on, these red visor and the small lightning bolts (I would rather suspect a character who controlls electricity like Electro when I wouldnt know the character...) are fucking small details. Kinda like her Spider eyes ;-)
I get it, especially the Joker thing: the baggage it comes with is pretty fucking heavy, and even alluding to all the gross shit that happens in The Killing Joke can put some pretty vulnerable people in some heavy discomfort, which is a terrible fucking thing and ultimately what pushes me to be against the cover. There are reasons to be on edge about the whole thing.
Which is made worse when a bunch of shitty dudes with shitty axes to grind shittily grab it and run with it as this big issue of freedom of speech, bludgeoning the people speaking out against it with all manners of abuse. Tensions rise to a goddamn fever pitch and people are seriously calling for DC's death because of it.
And there are so many older, better reasons to wish for DC Comics' death, seriously. One variant cover, which you're likely never going to see in a shop because they're made mostly for the collectors who are willing to pay a premium for something with artificial rarity, that has absolutely nothing to do with either the book or the creative direction the company is taking Batgirl in? When there's so many issues with the way the creators of said comics get treated?
Come on.
The giant visor on his eyes? The whole thunderbolt logo that's both on his chest and ears? Dude. Costume design is a thing.
MHWilliams
Member
Honestly? Probably no one. Hence the redesign. "Trying to reach these people is useless, let's try something else." That is Marvel's stock and trade.
Hence why Cyclops has has a run of absolutely shitty costumes. At least the Marvel Now version is an attempt to get his powerset front and center, but it probably would work better with a visible visor. And Flash's lightning bolts are small details?
Even in the old design, he's got a big lightning bolt chest symbol, lightning belt, and head wings, all intended to call back to speed.
crimsonspider89
Banned
A great character design gives you insight to the character's personality and powerset.
Spider-Woman in particular:
What information does this costume impart? What insight to the character are we gaining?
At least here:
There's a big goddamn spider on the front, letting you know, "Hey, this is Spider-Somebody!" And the outfit is street-level superhero, allowing her to interact with normal people - a point of the new status quo - while also jumping into battle and looking like a goddamn heroine.
Jessica Drew's original outfit was always shit. The only "Spider" thing about it was the eyes, which were just cribbed from Spider-Man. You can argue that you liked the original outfit, but a great design?
Nah, man.
Both costumes are shit. One is bland everyday clothes that make no sense for her(flying with a jacket like that is a bad idea to begin with) and changes her bodytype which is annoying as hell to me. And the other is a skintight latex suit which makes no sense either. Going from one spectrum to another end is stupid as fuck.
MHWilliams
Member
What's bland about a big ass spider symbol on the front of the outfit? It's striking and it has a good deal of contrast.
I mean, you're sporting a Scarlet Witch avatar, and she's only had a few good outfits herself.
People relating thunderbolts more to electricity than to speed.
And hey, I like good costune designs, too. I just dont need every costume screaming like: "HEY, I AM A HUMAN SPIDER! LOOK AT ME, I HAVE A GIANT SPIDER ON MY CHEST, JUST IN CASE YOU DIDNT NOTICED THAT I STICK ON WALLS, YOU KNOW, LIKE SPIDERS DO FROM TIME TO TIME!"
Serpentine
Banned
SW's design is a massive improvement but then again I like jackets and shades as part of costumes anyway
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
Should have gone with Mahou Shoujo Spider-Woman
I also like the jacket look, it goes well with a solo street level hero book.
crimsonspider89
Banned
It is bland. And yes Wanda has sported bad outfits. Doesn't change the fact that Jess went from a shit costume to another shit costume.
Also a giant spider on front like all those t shirts that are bland.
But skirts are not that great when you are hanging upside down or flying.
I mean it can be both and considering the main power set is speed, his name being Flash it's not that hard to see how the lightning bolts on his costume relate to his powers.
my name is ed
Banned
I really dont think switching body types is all that big a deal. There is so much inconsistency between how artists portray a character that few characters actually have a body type. Good luck trying to tell me which male superheroes are mesomorphs, ectomorphs or endomorphs. In Spider-Woman's case, her body type just meant big boobs and big butt if the artist felt like it.
MHWilliams
Member
But what's bland about it? That it's not spandex? The colors? Many of the best, most iconic designs make great shirts and jackets.
A great character design gives you insight to the character's personality and powerset.
Spider-Woman in particular:
What information does this costume impart? What insight to the character are we gaining?
At least here:
There's a big goddamn spider on the front, letting you know, "Hey, this is Spider-Somebody!" And the outfit is street-level superhero, allowing her to interact with normal people - a point of the new status quo - while also jumping into battle and looking like a goddamn heroine.
Jessica Drew's original outfit was always shit. The only "Spider" thing about it was the eyes, which were just cribbed from Spider-Man. You can argue that you liked the original outfit, but a great design?
Nah, man.
The original Spider-Woman costume told me that someone thought long and hard about coming up with a costume that could not only draw attention to get chest, but her crotch as well to make the objectification complete! It amazes me that god awful costume stuck around as long as it did.
crimsonspider89
Banned
The overall design looks muted. Look at YJ's Superboy. He wore a shirt with a s and jeans but it wasn't muted looking. The colors were vibrant The design looks muted as does the color.
Or Miss America Chavez. I liked her design due to the fact it had vibrancy and such. Small details can make the difference.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
oooh controversial opinion time, I don't like this Kate suit,
Even McKelvie drew them in but it was colored over
It's pretty much a Bond girl inspired outfit but those hip holes are not good.
Even McKelvie drew them in but it was colored over
TetraxShards
Member
That one was inspired by Emma Peel's costume in the UK Avengers TV show. I do prefer them filled in though. McKelvie has said that he is a fan of Aja's look for her (and if he wasn't, you know he would have made a new one anyway).
I haven't seen her in costume in ages though, apart from Hawkeye vs. Deadpool. Dat up-do when not in costume though:
So good. Reminds me of someone I'm a little fond of.
I haven't seen her in costume in ages though, apart from Hawkeye vs. Deadpool. Dat up-do when not in costume though:
So good. Reminds me of someone I'm a little fond of.
TetraxShards
Member
I like the version from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes:
I mean, the McKelvie one's still better, I just like this one too.
I mean, the McKelvie one's still better, I just like this one too.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Yeah, Carol and her costume are both great in EMH.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
Yes! I was just about to correct myself, also she's back to wearing it in All-New Hawkeye.
TetraxShards
Member
I'm waiting to read All-New until the old series finishes. I look forward to reading All-New Hawkeye #1 the week after Avengers: Infinity War Part 2 comes out in cinemas.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I think both of Spider-Woman's outfits are terrible. I also think there's room in the industry for both types of outfits. I don't know why people seem to react that it has to be one or the other. I don't know why we always have to push one thing down to raise something else up, to me we should be able to let everyone bask in the sun.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
The world would be better if we'd all just stop using Twitter for a while. Mankind can't handle the ability to have access to anyone and everyone at anytime.
KoruptData
Member
Fucking A man. I want to look away but I can't though. It's a sickness.
TetraxShards
Member
Broadly agree. I think it's a question of who was doing the designing. There's definitely room for characters who dress sexily for their enjoyment and not the enjoyment of dudes. A lot of these costumes are decades old though, and without even getting into the sexism issue, it makes no sense for an industry that's so visual to not acknowledge changing times and fashions. It doesn't seem right for Spider-Woman to wear something from the 1970s, just as it makes no sense for a bystander in her book to wear tie dye and flares.
Now, some looks are timeless but even something like Superman's outfit has evolved over time.
Trying to compress any sort of reasoned opinion or argument into 140 characters or less is a pretty terrible idea. I know there is TwitLonger and other stuff but it's not like many people use those. I got into it for awhile but it was turning me into a terrible person. There's no room on Twitter for nuance. People just fire and forget, and then come back to a shitstorm like a bold child that drew on the walls and is wondering why everyone's so mad at them even though they still have the marker in their hand.
Freezasaurus
Member
Man, I've never used twitter or facebook. No social media. I ain't 'bout that life.
Pretty much this. Hell, Spider-Woman's body wasn't even consistent across the variant covers for the first issue with the new costume.