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[RepairmanJack]

Random thought to add to AD:After Death

I loved how the writing says they specifically had tiny sombrero's strapped to their chins and the art was them with regular sombrero's on their heads. I liked to think it was intentional and it made me laugh.

Also forgot Action Comics

I feel like Action Comics in one issue did what all of Civil War 2 couldn't do. Basically the same idea around the story (vision of the future, want Lex to die or stand trial) but it does it with such a better reason for someone to sway side to side. You have this Pre-Crisis Superman who has already not trusted this Lex because his Lex was evil. Then you have him trying to get to know this Lex because he has seemingly been good, even though he's still been a dick. Then you have this human Clark Kent yelling at Superman to just let him die.

This issue was great and really showed that it's possible to do this kind of story without destroying a character or forcing the conflict. I'm really interested on how far this goes.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice |OT| Literally worse than like Crash.

It belongs in the pantheon next to my Frankencastle and Criminal pullquotes.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

It's okay to say batman v superman is better than Grant Morrison's run on batman though, right? We're all agreed on that point at least

Spoiler

:L

 

[Messi]

It's okay to say batman v superman is better than Grant Morrison's run on batman though, right? We're all agreed on that point at least

Spoiler

:L

I'd agree with this. I actually enjoyed BvS.

 

[whatsinaname]

Anyone read Sick by Gabby Schulz? While reading like an incoherent rant by the writer, it perfectly gets across his/the characters state of mind. (which is in a very very dark place.) Watching him bare everything makes for a very uncomfortable read...

And it is so well drawn!

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

It's okay to say batman v superman is better than Grant Morrison's run on batman though, right? We're all agreed on that point at least

Spoiler

:L

The Black Glove is better in every possible way than BvS even at its best.

 

[PsychBat!]

It's okay to say batman v superman is better than Grant Morrison's run on batman though, right? We're all agreed on that point at least

Spoiler

:L

Spoiler

nah

 

[shingi70]

I didnt had any problems regarding the comprehension, my issues were more a problem of the lots and lots stupid things that happen through the movie, starting with Clark first hearing of a Bat Viligante like 100 years after Bruce became active and he started journalism and ending with the famous Martha stuff, but I am willing to give the movie another chance.

Blame Snyder or not giving proper context, from the clues given I assumed that at some point after Joker/Harley kill Robin that Bruce hangs up the cowl, years go bye and its not until Superman appears battling Zodd that Bruce returns to the cape and cowl.


Batman v Superman for all its winks and nods, has pretty half assed world building about the past, and the events of its own film. My guess is everything Batman related was left purposely vauge for Affleck to tell the story he wanted to tell. One of the rumored scenes cut from Sucicide Squad dealt with Batman and Joker the Night Jason Todd was killed so who knows.


I still give the ultimate cut a 7.5/10.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Blame Snyder or not giving proper context, from the clues given I assumed that at some point after Joker/Harley kill Robin that Bruce hangs up the cowl, years go bye and its not until Superman appears battling Zodd that Bruce returns to the cape and cowl.


Batman v Superman for all its winks and nods, has pretty half assed world building about the past, and the events of its own film. My guess is everything Batman related was left purposely vauge for Affleck to tell the story he wanted to tell. One of the rumored scenes cut from Sucicide Squad dealt with Batman and Joker the Night Jason Todd was killed so who knows.


I still give the ultimate cut a 7.5/10.

That Joker is supposed to be this Batman's arch nemesis. Let that sink in a little.

 

[Haloid1177]

It's okay to say batman v superman is better than Grant Morrison's run on batman though, right? We're all agreed on that point at least

Spoiler

:L

Both are needlessly complicated clusterfucks, but one doesn't have Snyder's name on it so.

 

[shingi70]

That Joker is supposed to be this Batman's arch nemesis. Let that sink in a little.

It makes sense considering how this Batman when we first see him is leaning into the more fascist militaristic tendencies of the Miller version of Batman. When we saw Leto's Joker ride in A purple Lamborghini, it really hit me but he is totally the opposite of Batman. He's Flamboyant, but still has the gangster tinge to him for the old golden age comics. From what I hear the extended cut didn't used any of Leto's cut work which is unfortunate as his scenes sounded pretty jokery. I think Leto if given the chance can do a fine line between Ramero, Nichelson, and the tdk Joker.

 

[RepairmanJack]

That Joker is supposed to be this Batman's arch nemesis. Let that sink in a little.

It's where he got his idea of branding people. He saw Joker and really wanted to look into how he handled his image. That and he also wanted to cover up some of Joker's tat's, he just hasn't had a chance yet.

 

[whatsinaname]

That Joker is supposed to be this Batman's arch nemesis. Let that sink in a little.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Blame Snyder or not giving proper context, from the clues given I assumed that at some point after Joker/Harley kill Robin that Bruce hangs up the cowl, years go bye and its not until Superman appears battling Zodd that Bruce returns to the cape and cowl.


Batman v Superman for all its winks and nods, has pretty half assed world building about the past, and the events of its own film. My guess is everything Batman related was left purposely vauge for Affleck to tell the story he wanted to tell. One of the rumored scenes cut from Sucicide Squad dealt with Batman and Joker the Night Jason Todd was killed so who knows.


I still give the ultimate cut a 7.5/10.

But that's not shit worldbuilding. Giving audiences the material they need to understand the movie without shoving it in their faces is good writing. You don't need to know exactly why Bruce hung up the cowl, but the Robin costume tells its own story, so you put it together.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

But that's not shit worldbuilding. Giving audiences the material they need to understand the movie without shoving it in their faces is good writing. You don't need to know exactly why Bruce hung up the cowl, but the Robin costume tells its own story, so you put it together.

Worldbuilding is not the problem of those first two hours. The world is.

 

[shingi70]

But that's not shit worldbuilding. Giving audiences the material they need to understand the movie without shoving it in their faces is good writing. You don't need to know exactly why Bruce hung up the cowl, but the Robin costume tells its own story, so you put it together.

I mean we can infer that, but after getting out of the theater and going to grab something to eat my group of friends just started at me to explain things before they started talking about the film. The movie is really good at telling you a lot with a little, when Bruce is staring into the empty bat suit and the cowl has this gaping Maw it told me everything I need about Batman.

I liked in theory what Snyder tired to with Superman, but not giving cavil a lot to work with hurts, when Superman is my favorite character.


I think Barry should have been in the Knightmare sequence to give more clarity to his traveling back in time.

 

[Weiss]

I bought Windblade stuff on sale. I guess I like Transformers now.

Also why didn't anyone tell me The Backstagers was so incredible? So glad I decided to dive in now instead of trade waiting.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Worldbuilding is not the problem of those first two hours. The world is.

nah bruv

I've pretty thoroughly litigated this movie at this point, and the only issue I've seen with the world that's grounded in reality has boiled down to "not my Superman/Batman/Luthor."

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

nah bruv

I've pretty thoroughly litigated this movie at this point, and the only issue I've seen with the world that's grounded in reality has boiled down to "not my Superman/Batman/Luthor."

I think concern with the tone of the first two hours is "grounded in reality". It's cool if you don't want to "litigate" it anymore but trying to pre-revoke someone else's argument about a visual and content-based approach being needlessly and relentlessly grim seems like a losing proposition.

 

[shingi70]

nah bruv

I've pretty thoroughly litigated this movie at this point, and the only issue I've seen with the world that's grounded in reality has boiled down to "not my Superman/Batman/Luthor."

Point and counter point

1. I love that unlike the MCU which is very comic books, the DCEU even with SS is very what if these heroes and villains lived in the real world. It's funny considering for the longest time marvel and DC were known for the opposite.

2. I think it sucks that there not a Superman film that I can take a little kid to go see. Hopefully Leto Batman does well and we see more DC animated films with big budgets.

 

[RepairmanJack]

nah bruv

I've pretty thoroughly litigated this movie at this point, and the only issue I've seen with the world that's grounded in reality has boiled down to "not my Superman/Batman/Luthor."

See I don't think the problem is the world, but Snyder's view of it. Shit can be dark, it can be grounded. But Snyder sucks at actually looking at the story within that world.

It's why I get so angry and say the movie is basically him jerking off while editing it. He has to spend 4 minutes replaying a scene we've seen a billion times at this point in the Thomas and Martha death scene, but he just has to do it and he has to spend a bunch of time on it because he just has to have that masturbatory slow-mo pearl bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with a grounded Batman and Superman story where they come together through their mothers. The problem is how it goes about showing that story. We don't really get shit on Bruce actually being Batman, we just get hints of his past and a training montage for more masturbatory footage.

The problem isn't the story, it isn't the world, it's fucking Snyder.

I also think Snyder just hates Superman. I don't know how else to explain his portrayal of the character.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I think concern with the tone of the first two hours is "grounded in reality". It's cool if you don't want to "litigate" it anymore but trying to pre-revoke someone else's argument about a visual and content-based approach being needlessly and relentlessly grim seems like a losing proposition.

Except it's not needlessly or relentlessly grim; it's a "darkest before the dawn" movie, and while it's definitely not Marvel, there are moments of levity.

Point and counter point

1. I love that unlike the MCU which is very comic books, the DCEU even with SS is very what if these heroes and villains lived in the real world. It's funny considering for the longest time marvel and DC were known for the opposite.

2. I think it sucks that there not a Superman film that I can take a little kid to go see. Hopefully Leto Batman does well and we see more DC animated films with big budgets.

Yeah, that's fair. The lack of good DC animation these days is hurting their younger gen's appeal.

See I don't think the problem is the world, but Snyder's view of it. Shit can be dark, it can be grounded. But Snyder sucks at actually looking at the story within that world.

It's why I get so angry and say the movie is basically him jerking off while editing it. He has to spend 4 minutes replaying a scene we've seen a billion times at this point in the Thomas and Martha death scene, but he just has to do it and he has to spend a bunch of time on it because he just has to have that masturbatory slow-mo pearl bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with a grounded Batman and Superman story where they come together through their mothers. The problem is how it goes about showing that story. We don't really get shit on Bruce actually being Batman, we just get hints of his past and a training montage for more masturbatory footage.

The problem isn't the story, it isn't the world, it's fucking Snyder.

I also think Snyder just hates Superman. I don't know how else to explain his portrayal of the character.

This one I just don't understand. Superman is the one totally morally upright character in the movie; he's the hero, fully and unambiguously, while Batman spends most of it as a villain. He definitely doesn't hate Supes, he just makes him earn his status.

And idk about the masturbatory stuff. The Waynes' death was a great scene, setting up the whole extended metaphor of how Batman had failed Bruce, and vice versa. We get plenty on Bruce, but it's from an unusual angle.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Except it's not needlessly or relentlessly grim; it's a "darkest before the dawn" movie, and while it's definitely not Marvel, there are moments of levity.

But there was a whole movie before that. That's 1 + 2/3 of grim. I feel okay with having a problem with that.

 

[Poodlestrike]

But there was a whole movie before that. That's 1 + 2/3 of grim. I feel okay with having a problem with that.

Nobody has to like the movie, nobody has to like any movie, but setting that up as an objective critique of why nobody should like the movie is a very different kettle of fish. I recognize that Breaking Bad is superbly well put together even if it's entirely not to my taste.

 

[dan2026]

The current DC movies just feel like they have no idea how to portray any of these classic characters. None of them feel right. They feel like warped, depressing versions of the characters we know.
Which would be fine if this was some sort of other universe evil league.

But no way I can buy these guys as the prime universe protagonists we are supposed to root for.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

I've only read the first trade for Shade, but holy hell, it is a trip! Love the colors, the bizzaro story telling. Everything about it makes me super bummed that it feels so forgotten. Really hoping the Young Animal book changes that.

It gets much better past that too. There's some relationship drama and a lot of weird situations and introspective stuff with Shade and it's just so good. Shame the whole thing never got collected via trade. I think the YA book is a very worthy follow up and it's very exciting.

 

[Manmademan]

This one I just don't understand. Superman is the one totally morally upright character in the movie; he's the hero, fully and unambiguously

Well yes, to the viewer. To everyone else he appears to be reckless and above the law- mostly because he was set up twice by Luthor to make him appear this way.

while Batman spends most of it as a villain.

Eh...antihero, maybe. Batman isn't causing any pain to anyone that doesn't deserve it. The worst he's guilty of is branding some really reprehensible pieces of shit, so they die in prison.

He definitely doesn't hate Supes

what? He was six seconds away from murdering him. I'd say that is "definitely hates" territory.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Well yes, to the viewer. To everyone else he appears to be reckless and above the law- mostly because he was set up twice by Luthor to make him appear this way.



Eh...antihero, maybe. Batman isn't causing any pain to anyone that doesn't deserve it. The worst he's guilty of is branding some really reprehensible pieces of shit, so they die in prison.



what? He was six seconds away from murdering him. I'd say that is "definitely hates" territory.

That last "he" was Snyder, my bad.

And what perspective matters except the audience's? Luthor successfully executing a smear campaign against Superman doesn't make him not the hero.

And Batman's whole fear fueled crusade against Superman is what makes him a villain, or at least, the villain's patsy. Like, his whole thing about Superman being an unacceptable threat is ridiculous, and is called out as such by Alfred as the rationalization it is.

 

[dan2026]

Eh...antihero, maybe. Batman isn't causing any pain to anyone that doesn't deserve it. The worst he's guilty of is branding some really reprehensible pieces of shit, so they die in prison.

What?
Batman straight up murders several guys in that film.
Along with using a gun it's about the most unBatman thing he could do.

 

[RepairmanJack]

This one I just don't understand. Superman is the one totally morally upright character in the movie; he's the hero, fully and unambiguously, while Batman spends most of it as a villain. He definitely doesn't hate Supes, he just makes him earn his status.

And idk about the masturbatory stuff. The Waynes' death was a great scene, setting up the whole extended metaphor of how Batman had failed Bruce, and vice versa. We get plenty on Bruce, but it's from an unusual angle.

The masturbatory stuff is all the scenes that are unnecessarily slow-mo and cut with some kind of music for no reason other than to be a cool scene. It's not that the scenes shouldn't be included or don't give information, it's just that they're embellished for very little to no reason.

Snyder can be good with this type of thing.(at least if he had much to do with it because it has been contested) The intro to Watchmen was amazing. It gave tons of story and insight in a visually meaningful way that came across as awesome while also being better for how it's done.

I would call BvS the exact opposite. The Wayan's death scene is sure needed to have the dumb ass payoff of the Martha realization, but we have seen the death seen a million times. If you're doing it either give us something new that makes it important or spend less time on it and don't waste the viewers time because everyone knew what happened. Instead Snyder worries about making an "awesome" scene and wastes minutes on slow-mo bullshit that literally made me laugh in the theater because of how the pearls are so focused on. Then he has Bruce walking all somber through a field in front of the old Wayan manner and we show him falling in a hole and going to the funeral. All this shit is not needed but so much time is spent on it just to make a cool scene. It's what I mean by masturbatory. It was like the guy couldn't help himself and had free reign to make as many cool scenes as he wanted and all that came out was his old music video roots.

I could go further with how you have the scene with Lex Luther walking into the lab with the kryptonite, or the scenes with Supes saving people and the Bruce training montage, but my point is there is so many useless pointless shit that does nothing more than serve to be a "Cool scene" when what the movie really needed was focus on building the characters. This is a movie that is supposed to start the Justice League but instead we get that Bats is mad, Supes is sad and Lex is crazy.

I really just can't budge, it's a shit ass movie with some good scenes. SS with all it's problems is a better movie.

 

[Messi]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

Batman Inc

 

[Manmademan]

What?
Batman straight up murders several guys in that film.

Batman never killed anyone who wasn't trying actively to kill him, or brandishing a weapon.
Not really going to call that murder. Don't want to die? Don't go firing machineguns.

Along with using a gun it's about the most unBatman thing he could do.

Even Burton's batman killed people. We just ignored that because the movie was awesome.

This batman is intended to be much farther along in his career and suffered a lot more loss than Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney/Bale. I'm perfectly fine with this one deciding that killing just might be necessary after the "no killing" approach might not have worked out so well for him.

 

[Messi]

I'll also accept the arc of Tomasi and Gleasons Batman and Robin after Robin dies.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

Final Crisis

 

[Poodlestrike]

The masturbatory stuff is all the scenes that are unnecessarily slow-mo and cut with some kind of music for no reason other than to be a cool scene. It's not that the scenes shouldn't be included or don't give information, it's just that they're embellished for very little to no reason.

Snyder can be good with this type of thing.(at least if he had much to do with it because it has been contested) The intro to Watchmen was amazing. It gave tons of story and insight in a visually meaningful way that came across as awesome while also being better for how it's done.

I would call BvS the exact opposite. The Wayan's death scene is sure needed to have the dumb ass payoff of the Martha realization, but we have seen the death seen a million times. If you're doing it either give us something new that makes it important or spend less time on it and don't waste the viewers time because everyone knew what happened. Instead Snyder worries about making an "awesome" scene and wastes minutes on slow-mo bullshit that literally made me laugh in the theater because of how the pearls are so focused on. Then he has Bruce walking all somber through a field in front of the old Wayan manner and we show him falling in a hole and going to the funeral. All this shit is not needed but so much time is spent on it just to make a cool scene. It's what I mean by masturbatory. It was like the guy couldn't help himself and had free reign to make as many cool scenes as he wanted and all that came out was his old music video roots.

I could go further with how you have the scene with Lex Luther walking into the lab with the kryptonite, or the scenes with Supes saving people and the Bruce training montage, but my point is there is so many useless pointless shit that does nothing more than serve to be a "Cool scene" when what the movie really needed was focus on building the characters. This is a movie that is supposed to start the Justice League but instead we get that Bats is mad, Supes is sad and Lex is crazy.

I really just can't budge, it's a shit ass movie with some good scenes. SS with all it's problems is a better movie.

Idk man, some superfluous slow-mo doesn't make it a shit movie in and of itself. It's true that Snyder uses it as a tool for emphasis, rather than clarity, but is that the end of the world?

And honestly, my biggest issue with the movie was that between the Knightmare and the email stuff, it spent too much of its time setting up JL. (Sorry, Birdie, it's been a while and I'd forgotten those issues; there's another complaint I'd mark as legit).

 

[tim1138]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

Batman Inc

 

[Poodlestrike]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

If I ever stop stanning for Zero Year it is because I am dead.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

If I ever stop stanning for Zero Year it is because I am dead.

fuck i forgot zero year

literally best batman story and easily in the top three of best comic stories of all time

 

[LordOfLore]

Heading out to grab 2 trades from a order I did on Friday. Going to a concert celebrating Morricone after. Snow is falling in Sweden again.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

One thing we can all agree on: I have no idea where to start with my New 3DS.

All the legit 3DS titles.
All the VC stuff.
All these DS games!!! (So many Kingdom Hearts! And Mario & Luigi!!!0

 

[Messi]

Zero Year has one of the most heartbreaking set of pages.

 

[dan2026]

Batman never killed anyone who wasn't trying actively to kill him, or brandishing a weapon.
Not really going to call that murder. Don't want to die? Don't go firing machineguns.

Ok dude I think we might have different interpretations on what Batman is.
My Batman isn't the Punisher.

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

I am quite partial to Heart of Hush. And Mad Love.

ALWAYS bet on Dini.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Batman Inc

SO good

etc.

Everything I love about Batman and the family in one story

 

[RepairmanJack]

Idk man, some superfluous slow-mo doesn't make it a shit movie in and of itself. It's true that Snyder uses it as a tool for emphasis, rather than clarity, but is that the end of the world?

And honestly, my biggest issue with the movie was that between the Knightmare and the email stuff, it spent too much of its time setting up JL. (Sorry, Birdie, it's been a while and I'd forgotten those issues; there's another complaint I'd mark as legit).

The problem is he went to the well too much and it sacrificed building any kind of character for Superman and Batman outside of them being mad or sad. You have the one scene of Clark and Lois in their apartment at the beginning then him talking to his dead dad(dumb in and of itself) and you get Bruce and Diana at the fundraiser. Other than that you get absolutely nothing of these characters outside of the main plot of the movie. There is just nothing done to build the characters and the time wasted on those cool scenes could have been used to build these characters.

I also don't mean the movie should have been set up for JL, I more meant that it should have been more about it's foundation. At the end of the movie you get that tacked on scene with Bruce saying that he wants to do it in the name of Superman but where the fuck did any of that come from? We got nothing of what he is talking about from the actual movie itself. Because Bruce shares a family members name and had a fight along with he is suddenly inspired by him? We get none of that in the actual movie to lead to that. Instead we get stupid masturbation in the form of music videos.

I also think it did too much stupid shit to set up JL, I just meant it should at least have the foundation of Batman and Superman as characters to lead up to it, but like I said from this movie we really get none of it. We get that Bruce is mad, but relaxed by the end and we get Supes is sad but dead by the end.

It's all just comes off as stupid and dour because the movie does absolutely nothing to actually build Batman and Superman as characters for the DCEU.

 

[whatsinaname]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

Night on Earth!

 

[LordOfLore]

Going with older stories I think To Kill A Legend is still pretty good and a Elseworld could be built on it.

 

[VanWinkle]

What is the best Batman story. You can only choose one.

It's The Black Mirror BTW.

Zero Year. Black Mirror is second.

 

[shingi70]

What's the difference between an absolute and a Omnibus?

Year One is the best Batman story, hands down.

 

[Freezasaurus]

What's the difference between an absolute and a Omnibus?

Absolute Editions are oversized deluxe volumes unique to DC, whereas an omnibus can be anything that collects much or all of a series or run.