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COMICS! |OT| November 2016. Wilde for comics, 2 Hickman books this month.

B

BrightLightLava

Unconfirmed Member
echoshifting said:
Her intentions may have been noble but I think it creates massive problems for Bobbi and is best forgotten. I think it reflects a misunderstanding of the importance of continuity in big 2 comics, in fact.
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I understand her impulse, at least. It's a shame she didn't quite stick the landing.

Rhaknar said:
Dick's back
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Is that last panel symbolic of your current, trouser related situation?
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
GAMEPROFF said:
Has it sold badly?
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I wouldn't say badly, but all Bethesda games without Elder Scrolls or Fallout in the title tend to drop pretty quickly in price. It didn't help that they didn't know what they had with that game. They put their worst foot forward with that godawful multiplayer beta, focused entirely on the multiplayer during marketing, and stuck with that focus through all of the DLC. And of course there was the "no review copies until day before release" which signalled "guaranteed shit game confirmed" to a lot of people. It wasn't until people bought it and the word got out that, hey, this game's actually really good did it start to sink in. But it was already too late.

I really hope there's a sequel at some point.
 
R

Roman

Member
echoshifting said:
I know she said that, but that's not what happened. It doesn't make any sense.
There are multiple scenes where Bobbi tells people other than Hawkeye that she was mind controlled. Including a scene with the Phantom Rider, and he doesn't try to argue that she wasn't. I don't think Clint is even there when she lets him die.

So it has always been told from a shared perspective. It's actually a really sad story that results in their divorce and Clint already didn't exactly come out of the whole thing smelling like roses.
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That's true. He wasn't there and she was mad at him for downplaying it and focusing on the fact that they as heroes shouldn't let anyone die no matter the circumstances.

This retcon turns Bobbi into a disgusting human being to be honest.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
BrightLightLava said:
I understand her impulse, at least. It's a shame she didn't quite stick the landing.
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I actually do appreciate and understand the impulse. Far too many female characters at Marvel have something like this in their background, especially of you exclude the X-Men, without any critical examination of the issues. It's even considered a trope for "Badass Women."

But I think it makes a lot more sense to either ignore it or critique it rather than try to write it away, it's not like those issues cease to exist.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Roman said:
That's true. He wasn't there and she was mad at him for downplaying it and focusing on the fact that they as heroes shouldn't let anyone die no matter the circumstances.

This retcon turns Bobbi into a disgusting human being to be honest.
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In one of the first scenes of Mockingbird #8
she is arguing with Clint that killing him was nbd because you can't "kill a ghost"

Does she just not REMEMBER watching him plummet to his death and disintegrate or whatever happened??
 
R

Roman

Member
echoshifting said:
I actually do appreciate and understand the impulse. Far too many female characters at Marvel have something like this in their background, especially of you exclude the X-Men, without any critical examination of the issues. It's even considered a trope for "Badass Women."

But I think it makes a lot more sense to either ignore it or critique it rather than try to write it away, it's not like those issues cease to exist.
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This is indeed an awful way to deal with the messaging narrative-wise. In the real world, this kind of past doesn't just go away like that. Simply retconning it doesn't help anyone and simply serves as a lazy, frankly offensive quick fix. How can actual rape victims relate to this? "Oh actually it wasn't rape, she was in control and lied about it!"

So if you erase the rape from a character's history said character is suddenly fixed now and can be a poster child for feminism? That's honestly an abhorrent message. A dangerous slippery slope.
 
R

RepairmanJack

Member
Owzers said:
Ptr close, consoles...be kind blizzard. I want ult nerfs with it.
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Eh, lets see the impact of Sombra first. As much as I hate whole team ults and fights relying on ults a lot of time there is no telling how Sombra's EMP and ability to shut down other abilities could have a decent impact.
 
R

Roman

Member
echoshifting said:
In one of the first scenes of Mockingbird #8
she is arguing with Clint that killing him was nbd because you can't "kill a ghost"

Does she just not REMEMBER watching him plummet to his death and disintegrate or whatever happened??
Click to expand...

And I have to add, looking at some panels on BC and CBR, this issue is written in such a nonchalant, smug "Batgirl humor" way I honestly feel disgusted reading those panels. I sincerely hope this retcon will be unceremoniously dropped by future writers. It's legitimately awful and damaging to all characters involved (except Phantom Rider I guess).

If the intent was to portray Bobbi as a strong female character, the opposite was achieved with this dreck.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
Judging from fan and comic site reaction, most fans of Mockingbird don't seem to have a problem with the change. But then again it's probably due to not wanting to give the assholes more fuel to go after her.
 
O

Owzers

Member
RepairmanJack said:
Eh, lets see the impact of Sombra first. As much as I hate whole team ults and fights relying on ults a lot of time there is no telling how Sombra's EMP and ability to shut down other abilities could have a decent impact.
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I mean the ptr ult cost increase for everyone by 20%ish and an extra 15% for Mei. I want less ults, they are used in almost every battle :/

My Rein wants less everything and more me smashing people in a respectable fashion.
 
R

Roman

Member
ElBoxyBrown said:
Judging from fan and comic site reaction, most fans of Mockingbird don't seem to have a problem with the change. But then again it's probably due to not wanting to give the assholes more fuel to go after her.
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Actually I'm seeing a lot of outrage and dissatisfaction on CBR and reddit. If you're referring to tumblr and such, I don't read that.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
Roman said:
Actually I'm seeing a lot of outrage and dissatisfaction on CBR and reddit. If you're referring to tumblr and such, I don't read that.
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I'm not seeing any articles from prominent feminist sites like Mary Sue or from feminist writers. It's hard to gauge whether it's fine or flawed.
 
R

Roman

Member
ElBoxyBrown said:
I'm not seeing any articles from prominent feminist sites like Mary Sue or from feminist writers. It's hard to gauge whether it's fine or flawed.
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That site only reported on the cover controversy, and in a very confrontative and shallow manner. This honestly says more about the site's reporting than whether this is worth discussing.

As I said, I'm seeing a lot of outrage on comic fan sites, so I'm definitely not alone in my assessment.
 
B

BKatastrophe

Member
Boogiepop said:
Read the Count Nefaria/Thunderbird dies a stupid death arc and the demon stuff/grieving chapter that comes after last night in the Claremont Uncanny X-men omnibus. And yeah, I'm enjoying this stuff a lot more than I did the first time through. Like, I recall that these ones kind of made me grumpy back in the day, because I was still at a point of needing X-men to be about mutants and the whole "hated and feared but still fighting for the world." And I still do think that's a core to the franchise, and this sure as hell isn't that, what with the team starting off proper by fighting Count "super freaking generic villain, especially at this point" Nefaria in a totally Avengers and government approved supervillain take-down, followed by Cyclops accidentally blowing up a demon prison while upset over Thunderbird. The second one there in particular is pretty damn random and ridiculous, but all that said, I can appreciate the over the top and kind of crazy nature of the book a lot more for what it is now, rather than focusing on missed opportunities or whatever.

The other fun thing of note, though, is that they actually reprinted the letters from the time, which is neat! And much as it was amusing to laugh at the grumpy fanboy nature of the "why you taking away my original Xmen?" letters, they're honestly right in that they're written out pretty piss poorly. Like, they're just like "eh, we're graduating from the Xmen now, no reasons offered, by guys!" But eh, can't really get upset about that (or nationalist dick Sunfire being all "psh, don't call me again bros, I'm going to go be a samurai serving my emperor" or some other questionable Japanese-isms as he flew off), as it was just trying to get the team formed up rather than making a story out of that. Also, one of the letter responses to that was "Try Champions, it has Iceman and Angel!" which made me chuckle.
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How dare you sir. Thunderbird died doing what he loved. An honorable death indeed and one worthy of a true champion. Besides we get Warpath down the line anyways.
 
T

TheFlow

Banned
BKatastrophe said:
How dare you sir. Thunderbird died doing what he loved. An honorable death indeed and one worthy of a true champion. Besides we get Warpath down the line anyways.
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lol nah. not only was he new on the team but it was his second documented mission. He wanted to make his people strong again, and bring pride back to his tribe. Instead he died like a bitch because he didn't want help.

His death is definitely one of the dumbest in the x line.

but we did get warpath though so all good
 
R

Roman

Member
TheFlow said:
lol nah. not only was he new on the team but it was his second documented mission. He wanted to make his people strong again, and bring pride back to his tribe. Instead he died like a bitch because he didn't want help.

His death is definitely one of the dumbest in the x line.

but we did get warpath though so all good
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He was pretty much simply a narrative tool for the writer to signify the risks involved in being a member of the X-Men.

Claremont wasn't an experienced team book writer back then, so these plot devices were predictably transparent. Just as the traits of the Japanese character were hamfisted and one-dimensional. Colossus was a walking stereotype as well at first, but was significantly fleshed out gradually.
 
T

TheFlow

Banned
Roman said:
He was pretty much simply a narrative tool for the writer to signify the risks involved in being a member of the X-Men.

Claremont wasn't an experienced team book writer back then, so these plot devices were predictably transparent. Just as the traits of the Japanese character were hamfisted and one-dimensional. Colossus was a walking stereotype as well at first, but was significantly fleshed out gradually.
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Yea I think wrote about that in my review of the issue. But yea they are walking stereotypes but later become awesome
 
R

Roman

Member
TetraxShards said:
The ComicGAF Podcast will enter production once the DFS sale ends.
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I know you guys have been trying to get something like that off the ground multiple times without much success. We have a lot more people in here now, maybe it could work, who knows. A nostalgia based cast wouldn't even require more than 2 people.

MHWilliams said:
If what he loved is "dying like a bitch" then yeah. Even Neal is a better Thunderbird.
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Neal wishes he had as memorable a death. He's one of those characters no writer even cares enough about to kill off - which ranks him even lower than Skin and Maggott.
 
T

TheFlow

Banned
Roman said:
Have you considered doing that project as a podcast? I'd always love to discuss these older stories.
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we talked about a podcast in general on discord but it would take some time to start and commitment. didn't want to babble into that until next year.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
ElBoxyBrown said:
Fuck a podcast. There needs to be a ComicGAF panel. I would be the dude that asks one of you how it feels to be a female in ComicGAF.
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tumblr_ofeyj9pUQW1qiuiebo1_540.jpg
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
I love these covers they've been showing of the new hulk book. Those two in the article and the Pia Guerra one they showed awhile back, cool stuff. No idea what the book is really about, every interview I read seems real vague but it looks cool.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
Donniewahlberg said:
I love these covers they've been showing of the new hulk book. Those two in the article and the Pia Guerra one they showed awhile back, cool stuff. No idea what the book is really about, every interview I read seems real vague but it looks cool.
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She's angry and transforming and grieving and not to be fucked with. This ain't your daddy's She Hulk.
 
F

Freezasaurus

Member
Donniewahlberg said:
I love these covers they've been showing of the new hulk book. Those two in the article and the Pia Guerra one they showed awhile back, cool stuff. No idea what the book is really about, every interview I read seems real vague but it looks cool.
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Really fucking cool

hulk2016002-torquevarfin.jpg
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I hope she pulls a Bane on Carol. It would automatically be the best comic ever if this happens.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
Donniewahlberg said:
I love these covers they've been showing of the new hulk book. Those two in the article and the Pia Guerra one they showed awhile back, cool stuff. No idea what the book is really about, every interview I read seems real vague but it looks cool.
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It's basically going to explore Jen trying to navigate through things like her career and superheroing while dealing with personal demons, much like Bruce did.
 
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