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COMICS!!! |OT| September 2017 | 25 Years of wearing a smile to work!

L

LordOfLore

Banned
error4041 said:
I would say he is solidly middle tier right now which is impressive since a year ago all he had was the Civil War II Kingpin tie-in and a Quake one-shot. depending on how his upcoming slate of books is received, I could see him climbing even higher in time for the next relaunch.
Click to expand...
I've mentioned it before but I'm really hoping he doesn't get Marvel burnout like Lemire did and leaves the moment his contract is up.

Edit:Wolfman interview.

Holy shit, the Batman with Tim in prison is
Batman of Tomorrow AKA Tim with a gun.

Rebirth Arc Spoilers:
Manhattan "saved" Jor-El the moment Krypton exploded. He was half blown up and could just watch as his wife and world was destroyed while his son rocketed away. Manhattan has been in this universe from the very start.

Final parody page:
tumblr_owxqpfNEAg1uwlmkuo1_1280.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Ross61 said:
Image exodus mostly refers to Mavel’s best writers taking to Image. None of those writers were working at DC at the time. Most of the people at DC right now are either new or those who were the brightspots of the new 52/DCYou era.Only notable writer that left DC was Jeff Lemire and that was because he got a Marvel exclusive. And now he’s back with a new book and a highly hinted at 2nd.
Click to expand...

That's on me for not being clearer. DC actually lost quite a few talents, but not necessarily to Image. Kurt Busiek gave up the WFH biz, as well as Gail Simone and Grant Morrison. All of them moved into creator-owned work but not necessarily Image stuff. It's a smaller number of creators but they were all higher-tier, workhorse creators capable of two or more books a piece. Combine that with the loss of their golden boy Geoff Johns and they were hurting for a good bit. So DC did have to shore up, but for a different reason.
 
R

Ross61

Member
Some Nobody said:
That's on me for not being clearer. DC actually lost quite a few talents, but not necessarily to Image. Kurt Busiek gave up the WFH biz, as well as Gail Simone and Grant Morrison. All of them moved into creator-owned work but not necessarily Image stuff. So DC did have to shore up, but for a different reason.
Click to expand...
Grant Morrison may not be only monthly titles but he's still surely working on DC projects. Hell, he's got Wonder Woman Earth One Volume 2, Multiversity 2, Arkham Asylum 2 and more. Gail Simone still has her Vertigo title and has said many times that she would love to have a DC title to work on. And Bursiek is releasing Batman: Creature of the Night. And Geoff's back in November after a year off comics for Doomsday Clock.
 
Vic_Viper

Vic_Viper

Member
Really hope Marvel puts Soule and Chueng on Uncanny X-Men after Astonishing! That first issue looked so good compared to the others.
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Ross61 said:
Grant Morrison may not be only monthly titles but he's still surely working on DC projects. Hell, he's got Wonder Woman Earth One Volume 2, Multiversity 2, Arkham Asylum 2 and more. Gail Simone still has her Vertigo title and has said many times that she would love to have a DC title to work on. And Busiek is releasing Batman: Creature of the Night. And Geoff's back in November after a year off comics for Doomsday Clock.
Click to expand...

Those are all future projects and nearly all of them are minis/OGNs, not ongoings. For awhile DC had trouble "feeding the weekly beast" , is what I'm saying.
 
R

Ross61

Member
Some Nobody said:
Those are all future projects and nearly all of them are minis/OGNs, not ongoings. For awhile DC had trouble "feeding the weekly beast" , is what I'm saying.
Click to expand...
When people talk about the Image exodus, they're mostly referring to those who don't even work with Marvel anymore. Those guys still work with DC.
 
M

Messi

Member
Ross61 said:
When people talk about the Image exodus, they're mostly referring to those who don't even work with Marvel anymore. Those guys still work with DC.
Click to expand...

Who left Marvel for image and still works for DC. Lemire and? Lemire was only recently though.

Hickman and Remender is a huge loss for any company but I'll take that for what we got in return from them.
 
R

Ross61

Member
Messi said:
Who left Marvel for image and still works for DC. Lemire and? Lemire was only recently though.

Hickman and Remender is a huge loss for any company but I'll take that for what we got in return from them.
Click to expand...
I’m saying that those who they are referring to in reference to the “Image Exodus” don’t work for Marvel anymore. Not that they now work for DC
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Ross61 said:
When people talk about the Image exodus, they're mostly referring to those who don't even work with Marvel anymore. Those guys still work with DC.
Click to expand...

I kinda feel bad for getting The Marvel Story last month, there is currently a lot of interesting stuff happening that would be interesting for a third revision
 
Vic_Viper

Vic_Viper

Member
Messi said:
Who left Marvel for image and still works for DC. Lemire and? Lemire was only recently though.

Hickman and Remender is a huge loss for any company but I'll take that for what we got in return from them.
Click to expand...

The problem started earlier than those 2 though. I'd say that when Brubaker and Fraction left was the start. After they left Remender started to get more recognition and then Hickman after that, and finally Lemire. After those guys left, Marvel really had an issue with placing their great writers on bigger books. They've got Bendis, Waid, Aaron, and Soule ATM but only Soule and Aaron are being used to their strengths. Waid is such a good writer on solo books but just hasn't done a great job on either Avengers or Champions. Then they've got Bendis on so many books he's stretched too thin.

The problem is Marvel just doesn't give incentives for people to stay after they get a following or move on to TV and Film. Hickman and Remender especially wouldn't have left if Marvel hadn't forced them to tie in to random stories all the time or turn storylines into epic events that weren't meant to be to begin with ala Axis and Infinity. Hell, Uncanny X-Force's roster was picked before Remender even started to write it lol.

They just make much more money at Image and elsewhere along with having the freedom to tell the stories they want too.
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Ross61 said:
When people talk about the Image exodus, they're mostly referring to those who don't even work with Marvel anymore. Those guys still work with DC.
Click to expand...

It's a moot point since DC and Marvel really don't have a shortage of talent, but make no mistake: post-2013 things looked pretty bleak for the talent pool over at DC. In fact arguably I'd say Marvel never had things as dire as DC during some of its N52 period, where at one point Rob Liefeld was responsible for multiple ongoing series. That's something that shouldn't happen past 1996.

In other news: Welp. Going to try and read Marvel Legacy soon. Here's hoping it gets me excited for the company again. Always nice when DC and Marvel are both firing on all cylinders.

Vic_Viper said:
The problem started earlier than those 2 though. I'd say that when Brubaker and Fraction left was the start. After they left Remender started to get more recognition and then Hickman after that, and finally Lemire. After those guys left, Marvel really had an issue with placing their great writers on bigger books. They've got Bendis, Waid, Aaron, and Soule ATM but only Soule and Aaron are being used to their strengths. Waid is such a good writer on solo books but just hasn't done a great job on either Avengers or Champions. Then they've got Bendis on so many books he's stretched too thin.

The problem is Marvel just doesn't give incentives for people to stay after they get a following or move on to TV and Film. Hickman and Remender especially wouldn't have left if Marvel hadn't forced them to tie in to random stories all the time or turn storylines into epic events that weren't meant to be to begin with ala Axis and Infinity. Hell, Uncanny X-Force's roster was picked before Remender even started to write it lol.

They just make much more money at Image and elsewhere along with having the freedom to tell the stories they want too.
Click to expand...

Look you not gone do my boy Al Ewing like that. He's been the most interesting writer at Marvel since his Loki comic.
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
Marvel Legacy was good, but I wouldn't call it as transformative or as affirming as Rebirth was, and, in that context, at that point in Marvel's trajectory, that's about as damning as it gets.

Basically the thing is that, while it technically has a story running through it, it falls prey to the thing every other Marvel Point One or other names for Big Primer One-Shots does, where it jumps from one segment to the next with little rhyme, reason or thematic continuity. I'm into about 90% of the stuff the book hints at for future stories, but there doesn't seem to be any point to it.

What made Rebirth so good to me was that it had a theme of rediscovery that played out both in and out of the fiction, and a general thesis of "we kinda broke comics thinking every story had to be the next Watchmen". There's none of that in Legacy, and while part of it is the fact that Marvel doesn't have that kind of history of metafictional re-examination, I feel like it could've been done. There's some stuff in Ewing's recent cosmic work that played on that DC-style, let's explore how the metafiction works through comic metaphor.

But boy, that
SNIKT
reveal splash was perfectly done and I wish the Deodato pages didn't fucking spell out exactly what it means like we're too dumb to get it.
 
T

tim1138

Member
ElNarez said:
Marvel Legacy was good, but I wouldn't call it as transformative or as affirming as Rebirth was, and, in that context, at that point in Marvel's trajectory, that's about as damning as it gets.

Basically the thing is that, while it technically has a story running through it, it falls prey to the thing every other Marvel Point One or other names for Big Primer One-Shots does, where it jumps from one segment to the next with little rhyme, reason or thematic continuity. I'm into about 90% of the stuff the book hints at for future stories, but there doesn't seem to be any point to it.

What made Rebirth so good to me was that it had a theme of rediscovery that played out both in and out of the fiction, and a general thesis of "we kinda broke comics thinking every story had to be the next Watchmen". There's none of that in Legacy, and while part of it is the fact that Marvel doesn't have that kind of history of metafictional re-examination, I feel like it could've been done. There's some stuff in Ewing's recent cosmic work that played on that DC-style, let's explore how the metafiction works through comic metaphor.

But boy, that
SNIKT
reveal splash was perfectly done and I wish the Deodato pages didn't fucking spell out exactly what it means like we're too dumb to get it.
Click to expand...

I would agree with pretty much everything you say here. It was an enjoyable issue and more than a couple of the teased stories intrigue, but it didn't resonate the same way as Rebirth did. Even the big reveal of the narrator wasn't as big of a deal as you know Marvel wanted it to be, simply because if you've been following recent Marvel continuity, there was no mystery there.

The reason the Wally thing worked was because he been erased from continuity inside and outside of the fictional DCU, where as while characters in the MU don't known where Valeria and the Richards family are, as readers we do. As a big last page reveal it didn't wow me because we've already seen the Richards family remaking the MU at the end of Secret Wars.

I think a better choice there would have been someone like adult Jean Grey/Phoenix. A character who has been truly gone from the universe for quite some time and could within the fictional narrative have been watching from the wings and observing the constant flux of the MU pre and post Secret Wars. All of the Legacy references would still ring true and serve as references to young Jean, Hope,
and the nature of the Phoenix force in general *and* circle back to tie into the Avengers BC story.
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
The other thing about the
Valeria
reveal that shows the book's wasted potential is just how non-committal the whole thing is. Wally coming back was played as this Big Fucking Deal, not just in Rebirth, but then in Flash and Titans. It had an impact, it changed the characters in key ways.

This? It's
"okay so the Richardses still exist out there, and Valeria wants to come back I guess but we're not gonna get into that well okay bye"
. It's true of every other big reveal in this. It all feels impactless, despite having some literal world-changing stuff.
 
L

LordOfLore

Banned
ElNarez said:
The other thing about the
Valeria
reveal that shows the book's wasted potential is just how non-committal the whole thing is. Wally coming back was played as this Big Fucking Deal, not just in Rebirth, but then in Flash and Titans. It had an impact, it changed the characters in key ways.

This? It's
"okay so the Richardses still exist out there, and Valeria wants to come back I guess but we're not gonna get into that well okay bye"
. It's true of every other big reveal in this. It all feels impactless, despite having some literal world-changing stuff.
Click to expand...
There was also a Wally tease in the JL issue leading up to it and Titans Hunt had set the stage for him.
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
Oh also if you're into that Ribic pencil look, cop Batman: The Murder Machine because Riccardo Federici does that exact thing just as well as Ribic.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
tim1138 said:
I would agree with pretty much everything you say here. It was an enjoyable issue and more than a couple of the teased stories intrigue, but it didn't resonate the same way as Rebirth did. Even the big reveal of the narrator wasn't as big of a deal as you know Marvel wanted it to be, simply because if you've been following recent Marvel continuity, there was no mystery there.

The reason the Wally thing worked was because he been erased from continuity inside and outside of the fictional DCU, where as while characters in the MU don't known where Valeria and the Richards family are, as readers we do. As a big last page reveal it didn't wow me because we've already seen the Richards family remaking the MU at the end of Secret Wars.

I think a better choice there would have been someone like adult Jean Grey/Phoenix. A character who has been truly gone from the universe for quite some time and could within the fictional narrative have been watching from the wings and observing the constant flux of the MU pre and post Secret Wars. All of the Legacy references would still ring true and serve as references to young Jean, Hope,
and the nature of the Phoenix force in general *and* circle back to tie into the Avengers BC story.
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree here.

I'm admittedly a mark for Wolverine/Beer jokes (I can't remember one that hasn't been an instant all-time classic; Astonishing X-Men, AvX, etc). And I can't think of a more interesting character to throw into a cosmic storyline.

IF Aaron's book is Wolverine and IF it's some kind of cosmic road trip, I am all over that.

And it seems to me like Marvel is FINALLY adapting the MCU structure and the using Infinity Stones as a unifying entity to the universe. Stunning that it took them this long but I think it will work quite well.

All I know is when Legacy starts I am 100% interested in every book again, to see how it will launch off of this and bridge the story together. They might fumble the ball of course, but they've at least shown me the play they're following off the whiteboard.
 
S

Sandfox

Member
I loved Legacy and I'm excited to see these stories play out.

Vic_Viper said:
Haven't finished it yet but man it's good. Just makes it even stranger that Aaron still doesn't have a new book, especially an Avengers book. Marvel should be teasing the crap out of what follows, I guess maybe after the weekly Avengers arc they will.
Click to expand...
His book just hasn't been announced yet.
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Rebirth #1 > Marvel Legacy > Metal

That's where I'm at right now, but I'm really not feeling Metal. Legacy was just okay--it doesn't speak to me like Rebirth did, but that last page before they reveal who the narrator is did give me chills. Very good stuff.
 
C

caliph95

Member
It's good nothing spectacular I do agree it didn't hit hard as Rebirth

And that's even with knowing spoilers for both rebirth and Legacy
but the return was a lot more exciting in Rebirth
The dumb battle nerd in me was wondering how did Robbie stood a chance against Starbrand
who but they're implying he is turning into an actual Ghost Rider not a bargain one with the Penance star and Starbrand did attack him so I'm going off tangent

Interested in how that happened
 
C

caliph95

Member
Do have to find something funny about Shield
That after all they previous Fuck ups them getting disbanded was long thing coming and I'm hoping it sticks and get more stories of the aftermath

When did Black Panther
got a galactic Empire
I mean with their technology it's not surprising but still

They're pushing Odin
and Phoenix

I'm wondering if the hammer origin is like a weird daughter of the two with them implying to have it's own sentience and Phoenix knowledge of it

I do want see more of the cavemen Avengers
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
ElNarez said:
well you're in luck because that was referencing the Aaron/Bachalo Doctor Strange run
Click to expand...

Sweet, thanks.


I enjoyed Legacy well enough. I don't remember Marvel ever scheduling so many cataclysmic events on top of each other as they've been doing recently.
 
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