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(Commentary) It's far from game over for Xbox; Microsoft likely to top Sony in game w

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=John+Dvorak's+Second+Opinion&siteid=yhoo

By John C. Dvorak
Last Update: 12:01 AM ET Sept. 16, 2004

Editor's note: John C. Dvorak is a regular contributor to CBS MarketWatch. Dvorak is a longtime technology industry observer and columnist. His daily musings can be found at www.dvorak.org/blog.


BERKELEY, Calif. (CBS.MW) -- You can see why Microsoft is so interested in pushing itself into the game console business when you start to look at the phenomenal sales the game industry generates.

Consider some of these numbers.

Computer and video game software sales alone should top $9 billion this year (over $11 billion by some estimates) which is about the same amount of money that is generated by the entire Hollywood movie industry. In 2003, more than 239 million video console and PC games were sold in the US.

That's two games for every household in the U.S.. Half of all Americans aged six and older play some sort of video game once in a while. A third of game players are women.

The fact is that most of the world is video game gah-gah.

This is not something that is lost on Microsoft (and its X-Box console) which pursues console leader Sony (SNE: news, chart, profile). Sony's Playstation division is thought to be supporting the entire corporation despite the diverse offerings from Sony.

Microsoft (MSFT: news, chart, profile) knows that it cannot forever dominate the desktop computing world when it's being hounded by competition. Much of the competitive software is offered free as the important open source initiatives are finally getting into gear.

It was years ago that insiders at Microsoft knew they had to have a plan B if things changed on the work place desktop. It's two cash cows are the Windows operating system and Microsoft Office,

Both are vulnerable, particularly Microsoft Office.

It was decided that if the company could manage to get into the PC game and game console business the way Sony did, it would be possible to create a new and impenetrable cash cow for years to come. Or so the thinking went.

Microsoft first went into PC games and managed to put together a string of well designed and popular hits. It also began to develop an online strategy that it hoped would make the X-Box get a jump on the Playstation. The strategy has yet to pay off as the online gaming market, though popular, was has not become a monster, yet.

(As an aside I should mention Nintendo. It took a different almost niche strategy with its Game Cube and Gameboy Advance hand held game playing machine. They milked the Mario Brothers brand and continue to appeal to the younger gamers. But it's the little Gameboy that has become a sensation for all ages and I'll be discussing it and the Nintendo strategy in a future column. Suffice it to say, people love the Gameboy.)

It may take until the war goes into the X-Box II and Sony Playstation 3 era before anything comes of this battle. X-Box has eeked out a 25-percent market share in the USA but hardly cracked game-crazed Japan. Most of the smart money is betting on Sony since it has a lock on the best games (but not all) and it has been superb in locking down top game designers to rigid development contracts. The company also has more chops in the consumer electronics channels and knows the fickle nature of the business better than anyone. Sony, no baloney.

Meanwhile the first Microsoft offering, the current X-Box is clunky and hardly a feat of engineering. The company was late with its games and never put together a great lineup instead relying on a few blockbusters, especially HALO.

That said, I'm picking Microsoft to win this war.

Simply put, the people at Microsoft are smarter, especially the executives. The X-Box 2 should be at least as jazzy as the Sony offering, and Microsoft now looks like it's serious about a fight to the death. With over billions in cash in its coffers and a minimum of distractions, Microsoft also looks as if it can focus more on the X-Box than Sony.

Sony looks bloated, has to run a music business, a film business, a consumer electronics business, a broadcast gear business and on and on. If the company was smart it would sell off half of its agglomeration of disjointed interests.

On top of all this, the X-Box business looks as if it has avoided the kind of ruinous corporate meddling so common at Microsoft -- the kind of second-guessing that forever plagued the MSN project, for example. I'm putting Microsoft on top of this heap by 2007.
 
"Sony looks bloated, has to run a music business, a film business, a consumer electronics business, a broadcast gear business and on and on."

Haven't they been running all that all this time that they've been winning?
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
How much do CBS Marketwatch writers get paid? Seems like a cush job.

Doesn't MS also have to run its Windows environment business, continue to push hollywood to accept it's WMV format, etc...., combat the Ipod with it's just launched music service, combat Palm with it's Mobile PC products, and Smartphones OS, etc...
 

IJoel

Member
popcorn.jpg


There's plenty for everyone!
 
This reads like something I'd see by a poster on GameFAQs trying to sound overly intelligent. How is Sony bloated any more than Microsoft is, really? They're both into a million things.

"Microsoft (MSFT: news, chart, profile) knows that it cannot forever dominate the desktop computing world when it's being hounded by competition. Much of the competitive software is offered free as the important open source initiatives are finally getting into gear."

To me, this really ruins the entire argument in the article. MS knows it can't win forever on computers, but they'll definitely win with videogames!! News flash: There's competition on the console circuit as well. Linux isn't even something that most end-users can even easily use, and despite consoles obviously not being open-source, all anyone has to do is plunk down $150 and get another console working out of the box. This is rather short sighted, I think.
 
PhatSaqs said:
My thoughts exactly. Anyone from the IGN boards could have written this.

Sorry, I accidentally missed some of the title and the first part of the story that had the author.

Anybody here ever hear of Dvorak? He's only published like a 1,000 tech books. Granted, he's not in his element in the consumer electronics segment for the most part, and certainly not on the games side.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
The writer is a pretty intelligent dude and very opinionated. He makes some decent points, but I don't think he gives enough valid arguments to support his claim that Xbox II will topply the PS3. It's more of a stab in the dark kind of thing.
 

pilonv1

Member
You all act like you've never read something like this before. People get assigned to topics they know very little about, and this is the result.
 

pilonv1

Member
As an aside I should mention Nintendo. It took a different almost niche strategy with its Game Cube and Gameboy Advance hand held game playing machine. They milked the Mario Brothers brand and continue to appeal to the younger gamers. But it's the little Gameboy that has become a sensation for all ages and I'll be discussing it and the Nintendo strategy in a future column. Suffice it to say, people love the Gameboy.)

I'd wager this, and the responses it generates, will be a much more interesting read.
 

ge-man

Member
Dvorak was on TechTV a long time ago doing a couple of shows (one was a one on one interview thing and the other was a round table type of tech disccusion show). I've alos seen him do articles for PC mags. I haven't read the piece yet, but I do know that Dvorak could be considered a "professional."

edit: Lookin at some snippets, it looks more like a case of someone writting about a subject they aren't familiar with. It just looks like a lot regurgutation of the popular opinion.
 

Teddman

Member
He does raise some valid points, especially about how Sony's game division is thought to be carrying the entire company, and yet they have all these different product lines. On the other hand, Microsoft has the rock solid Windows cash-cow to keep it steaming along, and they can focus in on the Xbox brand without as much distractions. Xbox is like the only aspect of the company they need to improve performance in, unlike Sony who has a ton of areas of concern.
 
Yet the decent points he makes are all common knowledge to the people that would bother reading this. I don't think that makes a good or interesting article.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
I can't believe I had to wait for the last 3 paragraphs before he made a point.

It's a quite well written, terrible article. He ignores (or doesn't know) so many points for and against his argument, and it basically comes down to: "MS will win because they're smarter...oh yeah, and Sony makes movies and stuff too." Like it hasn't been that way forever.
 

Teddman

Member
Semjaza Azazel said:
Yet the decent points he makes are all common knowledge to the people that would bother reading this. I don't think that makes a good or interesting article.
Everyone keep in mind that it's an opinion column, labeled 'commentary' right at the top. Not a "news article" per se. It's interesting that he is bold enough to pick Xbox as market leader by 2007.
 

AniHawk

Member
Teddman said:
He does raise some valid points, especially about how Sony's game division is thought to be carrying the entire company, and yet they have all these different product lines. On the other hand, Microsoft has the rock solid Windows cash-cow to keep it steaming along, and they can focus in on the Xbox brand without as much distractions. Xbox is like the only aspect of the company they need to improve performance in, unlike Sony who has a ton of areas of concern.

But then you get into the argument of how exactly they'd improve performance. Will they just copy Sony outright? They want the Xbox 2 to be profitable, don't they? They'll have to come out with a system which doesn't have the most power or features. Stuff which might take away from extras in games (I say might since it could still be possible to download and rip songs). The Xbox 2 will not even have a large library compared to the PS3 if it is not BC (which can be used as an advertising tool for early adopters).
 
teddman said:
He does raise some valid points, especially about how Sony's game division is thought to be carrying the entire company, and yet they have all these different product lines. On the other hand, Microsoft has the rock solid Windows cash-cow to keep it steaming along, and they can focus in on the Xbox brand without as much distractions. Xbox is like the only aspect of the company they need to improve performance in, unlike Sony who has a ton of areas of concern.

True. OTOH, if Sony can get back on track in their entertainment departments and Microsoft finds increasing competition and/or decreasing demand in the OS market, where does that leave things? As SSX pointed out, Sony has been dominating gaming despite their other problems. Microsoft also seems less willing to make Xenon a financial sinkhole.
 
Catchpenny said:
As SSX pointed out, Sony has been dominating gaming despite their other problems.

Part of that, though, is due to the lack of a true rival to its targetted demographic. Nintendo has skewed younger and relies on its built-in fanbase, IMO. Sega could've been that rival, if not for their financial problems. MS is Sony's first real rival, at least in this respect.
 
Teddman said:
He does raise some valid points, especially about how Sony's game division is thought to be carrying the entire company, and yet they have all these different product lines. On the other hand, Microsoft has the rock solid Windows cash-cow to keep it steaming along, and they can focus in on the Xbox brand without as much distractions. Xbox is like the only aspect of the company they need to improve performance in, unlike Sony who has a ton of areas of concern.

This particular argument against Sony makes absolutely no sense to me and it's been used on many occasions.

How exactly does having consumer electronics , computer, music, & movie divisions hurt Sony? It seems to me to be the opposite. Their CE expertise is what let them get into the playstation business. The music and movie divisions guarantee both leverage and content for their products. Does anybody really think that the strategic leaders of SCEI are worried about how well the movie division is doing or how the latest WEGA is selling? They have their own job and it's solely to manage the Playstation brand. And having the Playstation's creator as the head of Sony just guarantees that it will have any and all resources they'll ever need.

The Playstation brand, IMO, is substantially more integral to Sony's overall business strategy than Xbox is to Microsoft. Microsoft is using the Xbox to extend their software hegemony into the living room. Sony is doing something similar to extend their products & content into the living room, but the product itself is actually part of the strategy, not simply a means to accomplish it.
 
correct me if I'm wrong; but seeing how sony owns so much IP in the film industry and all they have to do is say; if we license out the IP to make the game;

say SPIDERMAN 3; no multi/port to xbox 2. Even if they do this initially to block the flow of games/multiplatform titles to the box; it would work. They can even block licensed music if they chose to. MS can't make those calls.

Then I'd say we'd have a very strong contender for winner in PS3.

the fact that nowhere did he mention MS push for XNA means his article on the future success of MS/SOny is plain unresearch crapola. XNA could serve MS very well if its well adopted.
 

Teddman

Member
How exactly does having consumer electronics , computer, music, & movie divisions hurt Sony?
It doesn't... As long as they are all posting profits.

EDIT: And not diverting focus from the Playstation brand, since we're not really talking about how all the different divisions hurt/affect Sony as a whole, but specifically their Playstation arm.
 
Teddman said:
It doesn't... As long as they are all posting profits.

EDIT: And not diverting focus from the Playstation brand, since we're not really talking about how all the different divisions hurt/affect Sony as a whole, but specifically their Playstation arm.

How does them not performing well financially hurt the SCEI division? I've had a bit of business school and worked for a ton of retailers, many of them with multiple product lines, books, textBooks,clothing, cafes, computers, music, art, etc. In none of the corporate meetings does the strategy for a given division rely on what someone else is doing unless you're trying to "create synergy" by cross pollenating. I just don't buy it. It's not how someone operates a business division. The divisions are responsible for thier own performance and they've got more than enough to worry about without trying to solve some other divisions problems.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Clearly, I think he'd know more about that than you.

I severely doubt it. Dvorak knows nothing about the VG industry or those individuals. He's basing his whole article on the macroeconmics of Microsoft vs Sony, not based on any knowledge he has of the VG industry.

Not that that makes his commentary useless, but he really is an outsider looking in.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Considering one of those "smart" executives is now running the Phantom company.... well... do I even need to continue?
 
Give Nokia billions of dollars to spend on a whim, and they can make the N-Gage popular.

Microsoft's Xbox division is still losing money, is it not? Success is measured by profit. It's probably going to take a decade just for Microsoft to break even in this industry. If everyone had that sort of opportunity, you'd see Nabisco making games.

Competition is good...but when you have two companies with the singular goal of monopolising the industry...we should be scared, as well should the developers of games. Look to the NES for what could potentially happen in two generations from now.

I hope Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft can all keep up with each other so we don't have to see that happen.
 

Teddman

Member
sonycowboy said:
How does them not performing well financially hurt the SCEI division? I've had a bit of business school and worked for a ton of retailers, many of them with multiple product lines, books, textBooks,clothing, cafes, computers, music, art, etc. In none of the corporate meetings does the strategy for a given division rely on what someone else is doing unless you're trying to "create synergy" by cross pollenating. I just don't buy it. It's not how someone operates a business division. The divisions are responsible for thier own performance and they've got more than enough to worry about without trying to solve some other divisions problems.
It doesn't HURT Sony, but it gives Microsoft somewhat of an advantage.

Simply put, Playstation is said to be largely supporting Sony's other divisions (as it's the most reliable moneymaker), while Microsoft's other divisions are supporting its Xbox. In other words, Microsoft can throw the immense resources from its other profitable divisions (namely software and Windows) into making Xbox better and subsidize any losses. Sony's Playstation depends on its own success without that support network and indeed is being counted on to keep the rest of the company fluid. Xbox does not have the same high-pressure position. See the distinction?
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Teddman said:
It doesn't HURT Sony, but it gives Microsoft somewhat of an advantage.

Simply put, Playstation is said to be largely supporting Sony's other divisions (as it's the most reliable moneymaker), while Microsoft's other divisions are supporting its Xbox. In other words, Microsoft can throw the immense resources from its other profitable divisions (namely software and Windows) into making Xbox better and subsidize any losses. Sony's Playstation depends on its own success without that support network and indeed is being counted on to keep the rest of the company fluidt. Xbox does not have the same high-pressure position. See the distinction?

Without going in to a long description while the above paints a basic picture it doesn't take in to account the benefit Sony has of it's own movie division which now includes MGM, as well as it's music divisions. IP's from the movie division will continue to turn profits, the movie division itself(as the movie industry goes), will always go up and down, but will also offer profits.
 
I think that the Revolution will be the last Nintendo home console. They have pretty much destroyed whatever relevency they had in the industry. They have become niche, only Nintendo gamers buy Nintendo systems (outside of GBA).

I do not think the chances of survivability of a niche system in the industry is not very high. I mean look at the Nintendo.com forums, even the fanboys there are starting to see the writing on the wall. I was surprised by some of the comments there. A large group was even saying Nintendo should just go third party.

I don't think Iwata is the right man for the job of pulling Nintendo's ass out of the fire, if it can still be pulled out at all anymore.
 

snapty00

Banned
To be fair, I can see where the "bloated" comment would make sense, in that Sony seems to compete with itself unnecessarily and doesn't seem to have a clear plan of action as a corporate entity.

This is evidenced by Sony's and Microsoft's Web sites, in fact. You can get information about 99% of Microsoft's products at Microsoft.com (all of the products are under the same basic umbrella, even when they're legally from another Microsoft company), while at Sony.com, you'll be redirected to totally different sites depending on the products you want to see.
 
Teddman said:
It doesn't HURT Sony, but it gives Microsoft somewhat of an advantage.

Simply put, Playstation is said to be largely supporting Sony's other divisions (as it's the most reliable moneymaker), while Microsoft's other divisions are supporting its Xbox. In other words, Microsoft can throw the immense resources from its other profitable divisions (namely software and Windows) into making Xbox better and subsidize any losses. Sony's Playstation depends on its own success without that support network and indeed is being counted on to keep the rest of the company fluidt. Xbox does not have the same high-pressure position. See the distinction?

Not at all. The only point I see is that you agree with most everybody else that Microsoft never needs to worry about profit, and can lose money indefinitely on Xbox, whereas Sony has to make a profit on the Playstation.

I don't think SCEI has strategic planning where they say, well we have to make money this year, so lets focus on the other divisions problems and then cut every corner we can to make sure we carry those guys. We all wish we could lose money as our business schools background taught us to, but dammit, we're just going to have to plan to make money.

Going by your argument, Microsoft can go into absolutely every business and win them all because they have unlimited funds. They don't need to have any real expertise in that business at all.

MONEY >>>>>> EXECUTION
 
DarienA said:
Considering one of those "smart" executives is now running the Phantom company.... well... do I even need to continue?

To be honest, is there any smart execs running Xbox? Surely not Mr. Moore. Allard is questionable. Shane Kim has been taking the axe to all of Fries pet projects.

The best thing MSG did was realize they aren't welfare for the hard-up game developers: Oddworld, Double Fine, etc.

They really are trimming the fat at MSG. FASA had another round of layoffs and are almost just a skeleton team. So it's pretty much just Rare, Bungie, and the teams that does Amped, which is on shakey ground as well.

Not that Nintendo is any better. Iwata obviously is not the answer. I mean he still hasn't brought down Nintendo's fees to be in line with Sony or MS. You would think that would be the first order of buisness. Plus he could have used the Rare funds much better than to buy some Capcom games that were supposed to be exclusive and then turn out not to be and then pay for the porting of MGS:TTS, but then not bother advertising it.

I don't know, I guess I am the only one that thinks Iwata is a lame duck and it's high time NOA is instituted as the base of power for Nintendo. HAhahahahahahaha, who am I kidding, NCL would never let that happen. A Japanese company being run by it's more capable American counterpart.
 
Duckhuntdog said:
I think that the Revolution will be the last Nintendo home console. They have pretty much destroyed whatever relevency they had in the industry. They have become niche, only Nintendo gamers buy Nintendo systems (outside of GBA).

I do not think the chances of survivability of a niche system in the industry is not very high. I mean look at the Nintendo.com forums, even the fanboys there are starting to see the writing on the wall. I was surprised by some of the comments there. A large group was even saying Nintendo should just go third party.

I don't think Iwata is the right man for the job of pulling Nintendo's ass out of the fire, if it can still be pulled out at all anymore.

A couple of million at most behind Xbox in the west at the end of this year, and way ahead in the East... both consoles tens of millions behind PS2. But you're that certain huh? I'm equally certain I'll see Revolution and moreso the next GB iteration feed you crow by the plate full if you think thats remotely likely next gen.

But there's no debate here.. we can only see who ends up right. Nintendo have quietly made strides [over N64] this generation IMO and learned some harsh lessons, all while the focus is on the fantastic success of the newbie.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Duckhuntdog said:
They really are trimming the fat at MSG. FASA had another round of layoffs and are almost just a skeleton team. So it's pretty much just Rare, Bungie, and the teams that does Amped, which is on shakey ground as well.

What about the team doing Forza?
 

dem

Member
I dont even care about game consoles anymore, but its apparent to me that Microsoft is going to take over sooner or later. Microsoft is probably the most ruthless company in the world, and this is obviously a huge market for them. Theyre running out of room for growth in the Windows market, and investors like growth. They'll do whatever it takes to control the videogame market, as they've already shown by going into the market prepared for HUGE losses.
 

AniHawk

Member
Duckhuntdog said:
I mean he still hasn't brought down Nintendo's fees to be in line with Sony or MS. You would think that would be the first order of buisness.

I thought that was one of the very first things he did.

I think that the Revolution will be the last Nintendo home console. They have pretty much destroyed whatever relevency they had in the industry. They have become niche, only Nintendo gamers buy Nintendo systems (outside of GBA).

I do not think the chances of survivability of a niche system in the industry is not very high. I mean look at the Nintendo.com forums, even the fanboys there are starting to see the writing on the wall. I was surprised by some of the comments there. A large group was even saying Nintendo should just go third party.

I don't think Iwata is the right man for the job of pulling Nintendo's ass out of the fire, if it can still be pulled out at all anymore.

Nintendo will do whatever they need to stay profitable. However, Iwata basically said if backed into a wall, they'd rather deplete their funds than go third party.

I'll go one cycle more though. I think Revolution will be second to last at this rate.
 
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