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Constance Wu says Matt Damon's Great Wall perpetuates 'racist myth'
- Thread starter UnemployedVillain
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hodayathink
Member
Because the movie is about an all-black battalion, but you decide to make the main character their white commander?
People don't seem to realize that centering the story on a white person is a choice the people making the movie are making, not some immutable thing that they have to be beholden to.
You are seriously lacking in self-awareness. It would almost be funny, if it weren't so sad.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Well, yeah, Ferris Bueller was way out of his league to be considered for shit.
Best supporting actor. In a movie not just about the civil war, but specifically about the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry. Negro infantry. The trials of being a black man in the army.
Told from the perspective of the White commanding officer.
Headlined by the white lead.
Could have been written a dozen different ways, but this was the way it went, as it tends to go. Particularly when Edward Zwick (as noted above) directs films about POC characters and their stuggles for their times.
Anyway, We're probably beating this one to death and really ignoring the content of what Constance is trying to have a dialogue about. Why it's just so darned threatening for some when a minority talks about expansion into territories rich with prospects, I'll never understand.
Even before you get into institutional and blatant racism reasons just look at pure population statistics. For every Chinese american there are 77 white ones.
He was hired by an American company to be in an American movie.
SirPinkyNose
Member
Actually I'm fully self-awared. If I don't I wouldn't have noticed the fact even though I've lived 23 years with it.
PdotMichael
Banned
I don't get it, that's is not even just reaching to have a point to complain but it doesn't even make sense.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Seems to be heavily funded by China, though.
Do you got a link or something to the hiring process for this film with the associated firms involved?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, it's called broadening the appeal for a worldwide release, or at least in theory that's what it's called.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I mean, anyone can look at the production credits and see that calling it an American movie is a vast oversimplification.
UnemployedVillain
Member
You really want to go down that road? Because I can assure you the same ratio with regards to Hollywood leads is waaay more skewed. The fact is Hollywood representation does reflect actual population demographics. Maybe for black people, but they've been at it for years and it's usually that same (middle aged now) actors over and over.
Marvel probably has most of the young black actors in their movies and they barely have any!
How is this relevant to box office draw in China?
There isn't much evidence to think that Damon is a big attraction in China. He had one hit in the Martian, but the Bourne movies, for example, were before the Chinese box office became big. The Hollywood stars that overperform in China are Tom Cruise, The Rock and Arnold Schwarzenegger. There is no Hollywood star power in other movies-- it is usually driven by the plot or special effects. We know that the top movies at the box office for the past 2 years in China have been completely Chinese productions.
This is NOT a Chinese production. This is a Hollywood ass Hollywood production. Written by, produced built by white Hollywood. The director is Chinese and has a name that seems to be clouding how much continental involvement was there while putting this project together.
A Chinese company bought a Hollywood production house (including all projects) and is looking for profit on their return. That's it.
SilentRacoon
Member
Well we know who constitutes the casting direction: John Papsidera (Inception, Dark Knight, Interestellar)
Victoria Thomas(Django, Hateful Eight, Blood Diamond), for whatever is worth.
andythinkpad
Member
I see this kind of comments from time to time. I usually just page down and move on. But it's not okay to say it in this particular thread. People are actually trying to have a meaningful discussion.
You have nothing to back you up. And you can't quantity it anyway. It doesn't matter if you teach Chinese in college or you are Chinese/Japanese.
PdotMichael
Banned
This is wrong.
I corrected myself. Misspoke in hast. Edited above.
I gave a link already.
However simplified that is, it is more accurate than calling it a Chinese movie, correct?
Max Brooks ... (story by) and
Tony Gilroy ... (screenplay) &
Marshall Herskovitz ... (story by)
Carlo Bernard ... (screenplay) and
Edward Zwick ... (story) &
Doug Miro ... (screenplay) &
Marshall Herskovitz ... (story)
Yong Er ... co-producer
Alex Gartner ... executive producer
Eric Hedayat ... co-producer
Alex Hedlund ... co-producer
Jon Jashni ... producer
Peter Loehr ... producer
La Peikang ... executive producer
Charles Roven ... producer
Jillian Share ... executive producer
Thomas Tull ... producer
E. Bennett Walsh ... executive producer
Zhao Zhang ... executive producer
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Ah, Blood Diamond, now there's some white man's burden goodness for you, helmed by Edward Zwick no less!
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Yes because eastern asians are one monolithic group of people. Gfy sir gfy
JoeyJungle
Banned
There's been some white savior criticism to Marco Polo, but I think most of the reviews focusing on that aspect were also pretty negative about the show in general. Benedict Wong's acting is pretty much the reason why the show is awesome, almost the entire cast + extras are Asian actors, and Marco himself is kinda just bait for western viewers to watch an Asian drama. There is some heavy white savior-ing here and there in the series, but I found it pretty forgivable given that Marco Polo himself is a legend/historical figure, and the majority of the series is focused around the Khan's court and political intrigue with neighboring countries.
I'm coming at this from the perspective of a white male only having watched season 1, so this is just like my opinion man. Could easily see someone coming from a different heritage/perspective having a different reaction.
PdotMichael
Banned
The question would be why should they hire Chinese Americans to play Chinese characters if they co-produce it with, well, China?
Having a foreigner as lead character makes a lot of sense to introduce a lot of stuff for an international audience.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Not true, Cruise's character acted merely as a messenger to the emperor, who informed the emperor of Katsumoto's (The Last Samurai) final days and what he died for, his words of Katsumoto's sacrifice move the Emperor enough to realize that he's been manipulated into action by his corrupt advisors.
"He hoped with his last breath that you would remember the ancestors who held this sword and what they died for" It's not like Tom went in there and gave his own opinion on the matter, he was just passing the message that was previously falling on deaf ears.
He was never adopted into the clan, you must be born Samurai to be Samurai, he did don their armor and fight beside them, but he never became one of them. No idea where you are getting "last surviving warrior lord" from, he's dressed in western clothing when he's talking with the Emperor, he isn't Samurai, which is why Matsumoto allows him to kill him. "I will die by the sword, be it my own or my enemies" "Then let it be your enemies"
SirPinkyNose
Member
It's ok to say red neck American are racist but it seems not ok to say Eastern Asian are also racist. I wonder why.
Anyway I'm saying they are racist without having regard toward non-racist individual is because racism is not considered a taboo within those cultures.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It was originally conceived to be directed by a white man(Edward Zwick, again!) before falling apart, so you're not entirely out of line.
There have been many co-productions starring foreign actors like Fairwell my Concubine, The Promise, Mongol etc.
This is a drop in the bucket of lavish productions and historical epics made in China. It will be novel and succesful in China but be tired awkward in the US.
You said 'The Chinese and Japanese' which is completely different than a subgroup of white Americans.
This is a drop in the bucket of lavish productions and historical epics made in China. It will be novel and succesful in China but be tired awkward in the US.
lol
You said 'The Chinese and Japanese' which is completely different than a subgroup of white Americans.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Your link has various associations to Hollywood, this doesn't make it an American production. It is also influenced by SARFT in China. It appears Matt and the director were slated to do a movie together but this ended up as it.
You can say there's involvement from Hollywood but it's pretty clear this is a movie China wants to make and China don't care.
Septimus Prime
Member
Marco Polo was an actual white European who lived in China for a while, so no, casting a white guy to play a historical white guy in an East Asian setting is not whitewashing.
The alternative presented wasn't specific to hiring Chinese American. It was Hiring anyone that wasn't White American in lue of POC in a film about a non white culture and historic setting (regardless of the fantasy base). It's the exercising of the long worn muscle that it can't be marketable, can't be a successful flick unless it's got that white male lead that she and others find so problematic. It's really an indictment of the industry as a whole, and not just this film in particular.
dancingphlower
Member
Do you think China hasn't made a billion historic epics with Chinese leads already?
Its the American/western worlds fault for not watching foreign films.
dancingphlower
Member
There is a difference between "white savior" and whitewashing though.
Actually Takeshi Kaneshiro is more Chinese actor and celebrity than he is for Japanese entertainment. He's also born in Taiwan, half-Taiwanese, and all that jazz.
He doesn't really count but you are right though, when required Chinese film productions do cast actors from Japan or Korea or wherever.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Sure, only four of the names are big players in Chinese cinema, but the company credits make it pretty clear that this is a join effort. Like I said, oversimplification. It's a Chinese-American film. Pretty simple idea actually that doesn't need oversimplification.
Yep, he's appeared in like four Japanese films in the last two decades that I can think of. Like I said, interesting example really.
I wish I had more of a window into domestic Chinese reactions to know if this were true that viewers find this a neat and novel idea, or if they'd rather not have Damon.
So how many movies has China made like that?
I think he should count. He's a Japanese citizen with a Japanese name. He speaks the langauge perfectly and has starred in dramas, films and games and is bankable as any top actor in Japan.
I don't really get this. If it's a Chinese movie with a white actor, wouldn't that just be diversification? I mean, aren't 99% of the actors in Chinese movies already Chinese people? Are we pushing for Chinese-made movies to be 100% pure Chinese, or is it just because he's fighting monsters on the Great Wall of China, or...?
I don't get why this matters.
I don't get why this matters.
andythinkpad
Member
I disagree with you. In the beginning phase of the production this movie look very much like a Last Samurai 2.0 in other words it was a Hollywood movie. As soon as Zhang Yimou took over the project I classify it as a Chinese movie. Zhang Yimou's movies in the last 20 years are complete in sync with Chinese cultural ministry's agenda to promote Chinese culture world wide.
I am not talking the Zhang Yimou who made "To Live" and a bunch of controversial movies that was fund by oversea money and didn't get played in the Chinese theaters. I am talking about the Zhang Yimou who made Hero and basically transformed himself into a Chinese tentpole movie director. Zhang wouldn't pick up this project if he didn't think this movie i\was good vehicle to promote the "5000 year of Chinese history". In fact I think this makes Wu's criticism all the more silly. Zhang got Damon on board IMO because he wanted to use Damon's star power to reach a wider audience who didn't bother to watch The Red Cliff or Hero. Zhang has already used every big named Chinese actor in his movies. He can cast whoever he wants.
This is soft power in action.
Every movie released in China involves SARFT. The link talks about the Dark Knight Rises involving SARFT. That doesn't make it a Chinese movie. I don't understand how China as a collective clearly wanted to make this movie. The evidence points more to the fact that Thomas Tull wanted to make the movie. Remember, the link also says Edward Zwick was originally set to direct, not Zhang Yimou.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I can't tell if people are intentionally deflecting or simply don't understand
I can't either. But I'm tired and getting testy now, so I'm going to clock out for a while.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Nobody in their right mind would give Yimou Zhang $135M to direct a movie starring Andy Lau.
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