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[freeofgreed]

Your opinion, like you were talking about my opinion. I'm not trying to change people's feelings. I stated my opinion, and pointed out a couple times where others have had the same, with some people getting upset that a black person had a differing opinion than their own.

...

Oh my. I'm just done talking with you. Where did I say you're upset about that?

Yeah I think I am too, you're just being confusing. When you have something substantial to say then we can talk again.

 

[……forgetit]

So popular comedians have more rights than the rest of us?

No, the context can make it okay. The Eddie Murphy example I wouldn't consider okay. Like I said I only agree with it when it "making fun of people who do this." ie tropic thunder.

 

[Mighty Chin]

How is it ridiculous? How do you think every other person who isn't white cosplays as white characters? They don't throw a bunch of makeup on themselves to look white.

How is a hair style equivalent to the skin colour youre born with?

If they did I would be absolutely fine with it.

 

[-PXG-]

Eh.... I wouldn't call this offensive at all, but I can see why someone would. Then again, I usually think most people blow most shit out of proportion. Generally, I think people need to get over themselves and learn how to pick their battles better.

Anyway, the intent was to do an accurate recreation of the character. It's not like she covered herself in black shoe polish, put white gloves on and busted out a bit of soft show while doing jazz hands. There is blatant, tasteless, racist ass, intentional blackface out there. Much worse stuff.

This isn't it though.

 

[Two Words]

The concept of overreaction is not very subjective. You can get arrested and jailed for overreacting to situations. There are quite clearly rules in our society of what you can and can't do in situations. So obviously, the things you can't do can pass the line of what society as a collective thinks as an over reaction and can get you in trouble.

Laws aren't objective truths. There are different laws in different countries that contradict each other. How can be two contradicting objective truths?

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

And people can sun tan too. With certain chemicals they can even darken their skin permanently

Can you explain to me how hairstyles and skin tone are in anyway equivalent?

 

[frankie_baby]

How is it ridiculous? How do you think every other person who isn't white cosplays as white characters? They don't throw a bunch of makeup on themselves to look white.

How is a hair style equivalent to the skin colour youre born with?

They can do if they want, I doubt any white person would find it offensive if they did

 

[KHlover]

How is it ridiculous? How do you think every other person who isn't white cosplays as white characters? They don't throw a bunch of makeup on themselves to look white.

How is a hair style equivalent to the skin colour youre born with?

Uh about that...yes they do (probably a minority, but we are arguing about a minority here as well afterall)

 

[……forgetit]

So for the record, the goalposts were moved in 3 minutes.

Like I said it's only okay when you're making fun of people who do it ie Tropic Thunder or another clever idea that makes a point. I posted multiple times in the first few pages when this thread was first made hours ago saying as much.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Who exactly said it was?

The poster I was quoting implied as such.

A skin colour doesn't Belong to a race, there is significant variation and it belongs to people individually

The skin colour a person is born with is not a costume piece. Does this sound better to you? Are you okay with my wording now?

 

[ishibear]

Eh.... I wouldn't call this offensive at all, but I can see why someone would. Then again, I usually think most people blow most shit out of proportion. Generally, I think people need to get over themselves and learn how to pick their battles better.

Anyway, the intent was to do an accurate recreation of the character. It's not like she covered herself in black shoe polish, put white gloves on and busted out a bit of soft show while doing jazz hands. There is blatant, tasteless, racist ass, intentional blackface out there. Much worse stuff.

This isn't it though.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't confront people who do mess up, even if it's a minor problem.

This is how you prevent ignorance from spreading, by educating people so they do better in the future.

The bigger problems can only be tackled once the smaller ones are.

 

[Two Words]

The poster I was quoting implied as such.


The skin colour a person is born with is not a costume piece. Does this sound better to you? Are you okay with my wording now?

Michonne's entire appearance isn't a "costume piece". That seems like an obvious statement that says nothing.

 

[blitzcloud]

Can you explain to me how hairstyles and skin tone are in anyway equivalent?

naturally born with?

We can change our eye color with lenses, tan our skin with fake products and change our hair patterns with heat and other products.

cosmetics!

 

[besada]

The concept of overreaction is not very subjective. You can get arrested and jailed for overreacting to situations. There are quite clearly rules in our society of what you can and can't do in situations. So obviously, the things you can't do can pass the line of what society as a collective thinks as an over reaction and can get you in trouble.

Yes, it is subjective. There are no laws against "overreacting" there are laws against specific behaviors. Saying something is an overreaction is a value judgement. You can try to keep treating as if it were objective, and you'll continue to have problems in these sorts of conversations.

 

[……forgetit]

naturally born with?

We can change our eye color with lenses, tan our skin with fake products and change our hair patterns with heat and other products.

cosmetics!

You aren't born with a hairstyle, texture I guess but most hairstyles can be done with any texture depending on what you do with it. Skin tone is a different story.

 

[freeofgreed]

naturally born with?

We can change our eye color with lenses, tan our skin with fake products and change our hair patterns with heat and other products.

cosmetics!

There is absolutely no stigma or history of discrimination for people with different eye colors. All of your comparison have been complete shit too be quite honest.

 

[frankie_baby]

No, the context can make it okay. The Eddie Murphy example I wouldn't consider okay. Like I said I only agree with it when it "making fun of people who do this." ie tropic thunder.

We agree that it's about context just we differ on what the acceptable contexts are

 

[WrenchNinja]

Uh about that...yes they do (probably a minority, but we are arguing about a minority here as well afterall)

Thank you for linking me to a thread from 10 years ago with six posts in it

 

[Mighty Chin]

Can you explain to me how hairstyles and skin tone are in anyway equivalent?

In context of the Character she is emulating I think they are both important attributes of Michonne.

Dressing up as Michonne with the Dreads and skin tone is fine by me.

Dressing up as Michonne as a white chick without dreads would be a piss poor cosplay.

 

[Kevin]

This is dumb. People will jump on anything these days. Always looking for a villaon where there aren't any.

 

[Camp Lo]

Thank you for linking me to a thread from 10 years ago with six posts in it

LOL

 

[number47]

26 pages. Not one answer saying how it isn't racist,nor how should she of cosplay?

 

[……forgetit]

We agree that it's about context just we differ on what the acceptable contexts are

I can agree to this I guess? Trust me I've had bad experience with race as a costume and I haven't seen it happen once in person where the fact that the person changed there skin tone didn't become a joke throughout the day. Years ago I'd agree it could be done respectfully, but actually experience with it has lead me to realize that "respect" can be bullshit.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You do NOT have to blackface in order to cosplay the character. Wear the outfit, that's enough. It's offensive as shit.

Just no.

 

[FafaFooey]

This is dumb. People will jump on anything these days. Always looking for a villain where there aren't any.

This.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

No, the context can make it okay. The Eddie Murphy example I wouldn't consider okay. Like I said I only agree with it when it "making fun of people who do this." ie tropic thunder.

You wouldn't consider the White Like Me sketch okay!? I remember seeing that when I was a kid growing up in hyper-white Iowa when it first aired and it's biting satire opened my eyes to a perspective I had never really considered. If such socially eye-opening content is what the new PC McCathyism is trying to stamp out, then I hope the fad fades soon.

Like I said it's only okay when you're making fun of people who do it ie Tropic Thunder or another clever idea that makes a point. I posted multiple times in the first few pages when this thread was first made hours ago saying as much.

And like I said, I was wondering how quickly the goalposts would be moved from "never" to something other than never. As the record shows, the goalposts were moved in 3 minutes.

 

[freeofgreed]

In context of the Character she is emulating I think they are both important attributes of Michonne.

Dressing up as Michonne with the Dreads and skin tone is fine by me.

Dressing up as Michonne as a white chick without dreads would be a piss poor cosplay.

Is this a bad cosplay, because he didn't paint his skin lighter?

 

[Mighty Chin]

The poster I was quoting implied as such.


The skin colour a person is born with is not a costume piece. Does this sound better to you? Are you okay with my wording now?

Would you feel better if it was called CharacterPlay?

 

[Kurdel]

(though I can't recall if the blackface was critiqued in the episode, or if it was just an episode that showed how shockingly bad and deplorable the characters on the show get)

Mac thinks just imitating the voice is racist, and you have to go all the way. The less authentic your imitation is, the more racist it gets. Dennis argues blackface is racist, but then goes on to imitate how Murtha speaks, which is somehow even more akward.

The debate is framed in a way where both come off as idoits, and maybe it's best to just avoid exploring what "tasteful blackface" even means.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Thank you for linking me to a thread from 10 years ago with six posts in it

I lol'd

 

[pants]

Like I said it's only okay when you're making fun of people who do it ie Tropic Thunder or another clever idea that makes a point. I posted multiple times in the first few pages when this thread was first made hours ago saying as much.

I think context needs to be brought into this. The way I grew up for example, being a coon is a desirable thing, blackface is a celebration of being free of slavery (appropriated from Americans). In the same way I feel that this chick in the OP wasnt even trying to be a racist ahole, if she was walking around looking like Mr. Popo though, we'd all know whats going on. Growing up like I did, blackface isnt offensive off the bat until context makes it obvious it's done in a way to belittle people of colour.

 

[mentallyinept]

I was going to respond to this:

This is a big point of contention in the thread. I thought blackface was a cartoonish exaggeration of skin tone and lips to portray black people in a negative light. Many people don't see that in the OP, they see a girl with a painted black face. Is a painted black face blackface?

But we really need this to be answered first:

*snip*
I guess the first mistake we made was having this thread without defining what we view blackface as being. We can't talk about this issue without at least getting past that stage.

 

[ishibear]

Same. I've always been super sensitive to black face as it attempts to caricature and dehumanize us. It's hard for me to connect the dots here and see what the girl here is doing as blackface. It goes against everything I recognize as blackface. I don't own having brown skin, so it feels silly to get mad at someone painting themselves to be a black person. That being said, her reaction doesn't really help, but it feels like a lot of other black people in this thread don't like ANY kind of portrayal of black people period. It's just hard for me to reconcile giving a crap when the person just wants to play out as a character they like. I felt the same way about that Crazy Eyes costume from last year. I look at the arguments in this thread and I'm just like,"what am I missing? Why am I not offended?"

I guess the first mistake we made was having this thread without defining what we view blackface as being. We can't talk about this issue without at least getting past that stage.

Why should they do it tho? When we cosplay Sailor Moon, etc, we wear blonde wigs, the costume and move on. There's no reason to paint your skin unless you're cosplaying someone with say green/purple/blue etc skin.

And what gives you the idea we dislike black cosplay? Some of the best cosplays of different races are done without skin coloring or exaggerated features. Outside of the racist depictions, it looks really dumb to do it anyway. You're better off mimicking the costume and hair than painting your skin. Lest you look dumb.

 

[Kinvara]

If the girl did the exact same getup without the black face paint, do you think people would laud her costumes accuracy or would they also say "pretty good even though she's white"? I agree that skin color is not essential towards capturing key aspects of a character at all, but the inclusion of that aspect, so long as it doesn't create a caricature of a racial stereotype, seems fine to me. The girl in the OP didn't do this as a malicious thing. I understand that simply not having malicious intent isn't enough to absolve her of any blame with regards to insensitivity, but to call it racist is a bit much.
With regards to skin tone, should that be ignored when people are cosplaying in general? I don't cosplay and I'm not involved with the cosplay world at all, so I'm coming at this from a point of ignorance. Understandably people can dress as blue elf chicks from WoW, but do you feel that human skin tone alterations (white to black, black to white, asian to indian, etc) are unnecessary?

When it comes to cosplay, there are rarely situations where you end up looking 100% like that character. And that's okay. For people who are from an underrepresented group (like myself), we don't have the option of cosplaying someone from our own race anyway. You do your best on the costume and at portraying the character's mannerisms. At the end of the day, it's your personal spin on that character. That's the point of cosplay.

Human skin tone alterations are unnecessary, problematic, and distracting. Outside of the racial issues, it always looks terrible. The cosplayer in the OP is no exception.

Considering this cosplayer has completely disregarded all criticism doesn't make me view them any more positively.

 

[maniac-kun]

There are worse cosplay attempts at this:

 

[AkuMifune]

You wouldn't consider the White Like Me sketch okay!? I remember seeing that when I was a kid growing up in hyper-white Iowa when it first aired and it's biting satire opened my eyes to a perspective I had never really considered. If such socially eye-opening content is what the new PC McCathyism is trying to stamp out, then I hope the fad fades soon.

I didn't realize what she was doing was satire.

 

[DrForester]

"Context", that vaunted silver bullet.

So what is the alleviating context then? Offer your reading, please. There are a zillion ways to contextualize this. If, say, you contextualize it against minstrelsy and cultural appropriation and other ugly traditions, wedding blackface sucks. Why context do you see and why do you think it should override the other?

She's dressed up as a character she likes. She is not perpetuating stereotypes or in any way wearing the costume for general laughs or laughs at the expense of the character she is dressed up as.

 

[Kurdel]

There are worse cosplay attempts at this:

This is the kind of thing where you derinitely know it when you see it

 

[BobLoblaw]

A lot of people in this thread remind me of the whole Redskins thing. For some reason, non-Native Americans feel like they should be able to tell Native Americans what they should and shouldn't be offended by. Same thing here. A lot of non-blacks feel like they should be able to tell blacks what they should and shouldn't be offended by. As I've said, a person's race shouldn't be a part of a costume.

As a white guy, you can dress up as Nick Fury or Morpheus without having to paint yourself black just like a black guy can dress up as Elvis or Superman without painting himself white. I'm not gonna cut off my dick, tape/glue my eyes, and let my hair grow out extremely long to cosplay as some anime chick. The point is, you're emulate the character, not the race of the person playing the character. Goddamn gaf is dumb sometimes.

 

[aly]

I just don't understand why she or some people think she has to be black to be accurate in cosplay. I've been able to be white characters just fine without changing my skin. People did'nt have trouble knowing who I was.

 

[KHlover]

Thank you for linking me to a thread from 10 years ago with six posts in it

That's still five more examples than what we are discussiong, but if you insist:
Sigh...

 

[Camp Lo]

There are worse cosplay attempts at this:

But you can see the love and attention she put into that. It should count for something, right?

 

[Courage]

That other part of my post was important. Apparently only black people are only allowed to be offended by their race being portrayed by other races.

I never implied that. You simply don't know how much worse of an act blackface is. It's why we're talking about it, why it's got a Wiki page, and what it meant for black people during such an oppressive period. Overlooking that is overlooking black history (in America especially). They're different by several orders of magnitude.

 

[ishibear]

A lot of people in this thread remind me of the whole Redskins thing. For some reason, non-Native Americans feel like they should be able to tell Native Americans what they should and shouldn't be offended by. Same thing here. A lot of non-blacks feel like they should be able to tell blacks what they should and shouldn't be offended by. As I've said, a person's race shouldn't be a part of a costume.

As a white guy, you can dress up as Nick Fury or Morpheus without having to paint yourself black just like a black guy can dress up as Elvis or Superman without painting himself white. I'm not gonna cut off my dick, tape/glue my eyes, and let my hair grow out extremely long to cosplay as some anime chick. The point is, you're emulate the character, not the race of the person playing the character. Goddamn gaf is dumb sometimes.

Thank you.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Thank you for linking me to a thread from 10 years ago with six posts in it

lmao

In context of the Character she is emulating I think they are both important attributes of Michonne.

Dressing up as Michonne with the Dreads and skin tone is fine by me.

Dressing up as Michonne as a white chick without dreads would be a piss poor cosplay.

Breh:

The character is black, the actress playing the character is black. Limiting her costume to just what the character wears is ridiculous. So she can't have dreadlocks either?

I made my response in regards to this. In a thread where there are pictures are posted of white women cosplaying this very character, with dreads, I responded because having dreads doesn't have anything to do with her being black or her inherit "blackness", or anything that may or may not come along with it. It's a hairstyle: nothing more or less.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Is this a bad cosplay, because he didn't paint his skin lighter?

Black Marty McFly?

 

[Mighty Chin]

Is this a bad cosplay, because he didn't paint his skin lighter?

Lisa Simpson?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yes, it is subjective. There are no laws against "overreacting" there are laws against specific behaviors. Saying something is an overreaction is a value judgement. You can try to keep treating as if it were objective, and you'll continue to have problems in these sorts of conversations.

Fine, it's subjective. But even in this subjective society you have to prove that what someone did was wrong depending on the situation.

Those laws about specific behaviors are flexible depending on the situation the person was in when they committed the crime. You don't automatically get in trouble for punching someone in the face. People have to build a case to why the punching was unwarranted. That value judgement is used to judge if the persons actions were appropriate or not. Why is being offended not held to the same standard?

 

[blitzcloud]

Is this a bad cosplay, because he didn't paint his skin lighter?

well... to be honest the skin tone there is pretty spot on...

and she didn't even reach michonne actress skintone by far

 

[Acerac]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md8ruyo4PC1rztdgoo1_500.jpg[IMG]

Is this a bad cosplay, because he didn't paint his skin lighter?[/QUOTE]

If that's Brock from pokemon, no, Brock isn't white.

If he is meant to be somebody else, then probably, because he looks like Brock from pokemon.

...

I feel like I've missed a joke. :(

*Edit*

Holy shit Brock looks really white in his recent appearances. Damn, Nintendo. :(