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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Its not giving up, its letting the scientific community do its thing without every step of the way being political.

Nothing is political about the responses to diseases and epidemics until someone pretends that it is. A vaccine isn't political. Wearing a mask isn't political. Those hero scientists slaving away in labs trying to figure out how the human immune system could respond to this RNA virus wasn't like "oh yea I hope they vote for <insert politician here> once we perfect this thing!". It's just science. Period.
 

FunkMiller

Member
First post here for a while...

But yes, this is exactly right and more or less what I've being saying from the start.

However where I am (Aussie) we've had 1 whole death this year and we've just come out of a 2 and a half week lockdown (our 4th) over a few 'cases'. Not sure where its at now, but a week or so ago there was ONE person in the whole country in ICU (remember when it was about the health care system not being overwhelmed...). This, despite being constantly beat over the head with how deadly these new strains are...

Anyway, 1230 odd people died of the flu in 2017 here, compared to 909 from CV last year. 440 or so people die here everyday. But who cares about other communicable diseases or things like heart disease and cancer. Those things don't pull the fear porn ratings CV does.

Australia has gone absolutely mental. Last year it was a model of how to deal with Covid, but since then it’s gone completely in the opposite direction. The overreaction now is ridiculous. Partly because Morrison and his government of fuckwits can’t get a decent vaccination program going, and partly because the country is trying to suppress Covid completely. This will never happen, and the country is likely to stay in lockdown for years if it doesn’t change its attitude. I’m a fully vaccinated half Australian, and I can’t get back in without jumping through endless hoops that make it pretty much impossible to do. And there’s no signs of anything loosening any time soon. The Aussie economy is going to eventually tank if they don’t grow a set of balls, and start loosening things sensibly, and speed up the vaccine rollout properly.
 
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QSD

Member
Australia has gone absolutely mental. Last year it was a model of how to deal with Covid, but since then it’s gone completely in the opposite direction. The overreaction now is ridiculous. Partly because Morrison and his government of fuckwits can’t get a decent vaccination program going, and partly because the country is trying to suppress Covid completely. This will never happen, and the country is likely to stay in lockdown for years if it doesn’t change its attitude. I’m a fully vaccinated half Australian, and I can’t get back in without jumping through endless hoops that make it pretty much impossible to do. And there’s no signs of anything loosening any time soon. The Aussie economy is going to eventually tank if they don’t grow a set of balls, and start loosening things sensibly, and speed up the vaccine rollout properly.

Yeah this story about how they're not letting their own citizens in is crazy. And no tourists till halfway next year. I saved some money and wanted to go see Australia at the beginning of next years but no chance it seems...
 

FunkMiller

Member
Yeah this story about how they're not letting their own citizens in is crazy. And no tourists till halfway next year. I saved some money and wanted to go see Australia at the beginning of next years but no chance it seems...

It's absolutely ridiculous. The government have got themselves into such a fucking state with the vaccine rollout that they are terrified to do anything other than maintain a zero covid policy - which is never going to hold. So most Australians have no protection against the virus at all, at a time when there are variants popping up all over the shop. All they can do is keep slamming everything shut when even just one or two cases pop up, and that's no way to run a country. People aren't being allowed back in to see dying relatives for crying out loud. Most of my friends and family over there feel like they're in prison.
 

llien

Member
Some basic math around Germany.

Current R: 0.7
Given that (fucking) delta spreads1.64 times easier, after transitioning to Delta we get: 0.7 * 1.64 = 1.148
R of 1.148 means that number of cases will raise 2.63 times every week.

Basic math for UK:
Current R: 1.2 - 1.4
Vaccine impact, lets consider adults only:
20% no jabs at all
60% two jabs (say, it is AZ, so 60% efficacy)
20% one jab (both AZ and Biontech are at only 30%, we were told).

So, R vaccine impact as of now:

0.2 (no multiplier) + 0.6*0.4 + 0.2*0.7 = 0.58 <= with this figure, we know we are at 1.2-1.4

R impact if entire (adult, again, we ignore teens/kids) gets AZ:

1*0.4 => 0.4 <= 1.2 - 1.4 becomes 0.83 - 0.97, barely beating it
 

FunkMiller

Member
Basic math for UK:
Current R: 1.2 - 1.4
Vaccine impact, lets consider adults only:
20% no jabs at all
60% two jabs (say, it is AZ, so 60% efficacy)
20% one jab (both AZ and Biontech are at only 30%, we were told).

You seem a little bit obsessed with talking too much about case numbers - which aren’t really that important, and ignoring the stats for what are important: hospitalisations and deaths.

AZ and Pfizer are over 90% effective against the variants in terms of preventing serious illness:

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ion-against-hospitalisation-delta-2021-06-14/

We have to live with Covid from now on. The same way we live with flu, cold, and other viruses.

The key thing is that serious illness and death are curtailed heavily by the vaccine. 90% is a truly excellent level of protection. The amount of cases don’t matter anymore.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
You seem a little bit obsessed with talking too much about case numbers - which aren’t really that important, and ignoring the stats for what are important: hospitalisations and deaths.

AZ and Pfizer are over 90% effective against the variants in terms of preventing serious illness:

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ion-against-hospitalisation-delta-2021-06-14/

We have to live with Covid from now on. The same way we live with flu, cold, and other viruses.

The key thing is that serious illness and death are curtailed heavily by the vaccine. 90% is a truly excellent level of protection. The amount of cases don’t matter anymore.
Exactly, just vaccinated ASAP, the virus can circulate freely and it won’t matter. Getting my second Moderna shot tomorrow :)
 

FunkMiller

Member
Exactly, just vaccinated ASAP, the virus can circulate freely and it won’t matter. Getting my second Moderna shot tomorrow :)

And also, the more people are vaccinated, the less the virus is able to spread anyway.

Thees no reasonable excuse for not getting vaxxed. None.
 

llien

Member
90% is a truly excellent level of protection
That's protection against known strains, not upcoming mutants and that approach fails to stop "developing" new covid mutants.

As it stands, at lest vaccination with mRNA jabs or high enough coverage with traditional vaccines could break the delta wave.
 

FunkMiller

Member
That's protection against known strains, not upcoming mutants and that approach fails to stop "developing" new covid mutants.

As it stands, at lest vaccination with mRNA jabs or high enough coverage with traditional vaccines could break the delta wave.

So, it‘s okay for you to post statistics about known strains to back up your opinion, but not me?

Nick Young Reaction GIF
 

llien

Member
So, it‘s okay for you to post statistics about known strains to back up your opinion, but not me?
I've shared basic vaccinated vs R napkin math, not sure what your problem is.

R is known for delta.
If you want, you can replace it with a worse number and see what happens.
 

Cracklox

Member
I mean you do realize that the reason barely anyone has died of covid in Australia is because of the measures they’ve taken? Your country is barely vaccinated. Have you watched the news from other parts of the world? Far more people are dying from this than the flu.

Ok. I've posted about this bs narrative before that 'Australia responded so well initially' but that was a while ago, so I'll go again.

We did nothing the rest of the world didn't do. We had a nationwide lockdown at the start like everywhere else. Flights to and from -redacted- were put on hold, pretty much like everywhere else. That then shifted not long after to flights to and from anywhere, pretty much like everywhere else. Mask mandates were only brought in in 1 state in August of last year (incidentally the state with the most deaths, both at the time and still now). Our Prime Minister, has copped plenty of flack from the local media and elsewhere about how its all been handled (case in point Funkmillers response below). Pretty much like every other head of state across the world. Our most populous state of around 8 million, has had 54 deaths, and they only did the initial lockdown until June/July last year, and have been operating somewhat normally since. Whereas the state that's now had 4 lockdowns accounts for 820 of the 909 deaths.

The only thing that probably helped us, was being a big fuck off island, somewhat out of the way of the rest of the world. Anything else I just don't see.

Australia has gone absolutely mental. Last year it was a model of how to deal with Covid, but since then it’s gone completely in the opposite direction. The overreaction now is ridiculous. Partly because Morrison and his government of fuckwits can’t get a decent vaccination program going, and partly because the country is trying to suppress Covid completely. This will never happen, and the country is likely to stay in lockdown for years if it doesn’t change its attitude. I’m a fully vaccinated half Australian, and I can’t get back in without jumping through endless hoops that make it pretty much impossible to do. And there’s no signs of anything loosening any time soon. The Aussie economy is going to eventually tank if they don’t grow a set of balls, and start loosening things sensibly, and speed up the vaccine rollout properly.

I can agree with most (not all) of this. However it's mostly just here in Victoria thats gone completely mental. And thats largely due to an incompetent state government led by a wannabe dictator that likes to make up rules for the sake of making rules. Though I probably shouldn't go too much into that as that's obviously going to get a bit too political. The other states have certainly had some completely irrational moments too, but they haven't had to deal with the amount of cases and deaths as Vic.

New South Wales is the one place that's handled this with any modicum of sense, but as I type that, I'm hearing on the news in the background about an outbreak there (26 cases in the last 2 days amongst 8 million people is an 'outbreak' apparently), and they've mandated masks indoors for the first time so we'll see how that plays out.

Either way we can certainly agree society needs to learn to live with this thing. Especially with the golden bullet vaccine now available. From what I've seen most of the US has come around on that, but we still do snap lockdowns as soon as someone gets a cough.

And yeah, even if you have an aussie passport its still pretty hard to get in apparently. Which goes against whats written on the inside of the passport stating that you'll always be granted unimpeded access to the country should you require it. But hey, who's this Governor General guy anyway, and why's he writing nonsense on my passport for...
 

FunkMiller

Member
I've shared basic vaccinated vs R napkin math, not sure what your problem is.

R is known for delta.
If you want, you can replace it with a worse number and see what happens.
My problem is that you’re doom mongering, with no facts to back it up.

The fact is that the vaccines are highly effective against all known variants, and no current data exists to say they won’t continue to be so with further variants.

You keep going on about the R rate. It doesn’t matter. Hospitalisations and deaths are what matters. Serious illness is what matters, and the vaccines work very well to stop it happening. Until new evidence arises, everything is going okay. The doom mongering isn’t warranted.
 
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FunkMiller

Member



I should also add for clarity, you're not covered if you get covid either (pandemic clause in Bupa's terms and conditions).


Why on Earth are you talking about private healthcare in the UK, when it’s a country with free healthcare and only a small minority bother with private?

Anyone who isn’t covered by private just goes NHS. There’s no problem here.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Firstly, plenty of people are covered by private healthcare in the UK. Most white collar companies offer it as a perk.

Secondly, you're missing the point. You said 'There's no reasonable excuse to not get vaxxed'. If insurance companies are shying away from covering people who suffer adverse effects that makes me suspicious about how safe the vaccines really are and maybe they haven't passed all the clinical trials that people assume they have.

About 11 percent have private healthcare, but as stated, nobody actually needs it in the U.K.

And if you’re going to base your opinions of medical treatment on what private insurance firms do and do not cover, then there are plenty of things other than the Covid vaccine you should worry about 🤣

And, if you haven’t noticed, millions upon millions upon millions of people have been vaccinated with no serious or dangerous side effects. How much more evidence do you need to believe that they are safe?
 
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Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Ok. I've posted about this bs narrative before that 'Australia responded so well initially' but that was a while ago, so I'll go again.

We did nothing the rest of the world didn't do. We had a nationwide lockdown at the start like everywhere else. Flights to and from -redacted- were put on hold, pretty much like everywhere else. That then shifted not long after to flights to and from anywhere, pretty much like everywhere else. Mask mandates were only brought in in 1 state in August of last year (incidentally the state with the most deaths, both at the time and still now). Our Prime Minister, has copped plenty of flack from the local media and elsewhere about how its all been handled (case in point Funkmillers response below). Pretty much like every other head of state across the world. Our most populous state of around 8 million, has had 54 deaths, and they only did the initial lockdown until June/July last year, and have been operating somewhat normally since. Whereas the state that's now had 4 lockdowns accounts for 820 of the 909 deaths.

The only thing that probably helped us, was being a big fuck off island, somewhat out of the way of the rest of the world. Anything else I just don't see.



I can agree with most (not all) of this. However it's mostly just here in Victoria thats gone completely mental. And thats largely due to an incompetent state government led by a wannabe dictator that likes to make up rules for the sake of making rules. Though I probably shouldn't go too much into that as that's obviously going to get a bit too political. The other states have certainly had some completely irrational moments too, but they haven't had to deal with the amount of cases and deaths as Vic.

New South Wales is the one place that's handled this with any modicum of sense, but as I type that, I'm hearing on the news in the background about an outbreak there (26 cases in the last 2 days amongst 8 million people is an 'outbreak' apparently), and they've mandated masks indoors for the first time so we'll see how that plays out.

Either way we can certainly agree society needs to learn to live with this thing. Especially with the golden bullet vaccine now available. From what I've seen most of the US has come around on that, but we still do snap lockdowns as soon as someone gets a cough.

And yeah, even if you have an aussie passport its still pretty hard to get in apparently. Which goes against whats written on the inside of the passport stating that you'll always be granted unimpeded access to the country should you require it. But hey, who's this Governor General guy anyway, and why's he writing nonsense on my passport for...
Australia has had military and police enforced quarantines for everyone arriving from overseas. The rest of the world has not done this. The lockdowns in Australia have also been much harsher - there were no police checkpoints to ensure people were staying home over here.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
that makes me suspicious about how safe the vaccines really are and maybe they haven't passed all the clinical trials that people assume they have.
ah, asking questions again? /sarcasm

Yes, they did pass of the clinical trials. I was assembling a dossier for medical registration a few years back as a day job - we are talking about thousands of pages of scientific tests and material. You cannot simply ‘skip’ them.
 

Peter303

Member
.
Deleted all my posts. Why do I let myself get dragged into this shit. I don't give a fuck about it.
 
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Raven117

Member
Nailed it right here. I have a friend in his 30's, healthy, not fat, fully vaccinated and the dude i worried about taking his mask off at work. Just completely illogical fear. The majority of the blame for people with this weird ass COVID PTSD is with the media (and our govt). The amount of people that I speak with about COVID, the vaccines efficacy, what the vaccines actually do, the low rate of mortality in healthy people under the age of 60 is absolutely absurd.

We keep hearing the mantra of follow the science, but it doesn't look like we are.
Yup. Same. We are suffering at the threshold bias of this. Science is absolutely showing that under the present conditions, almost everyone will be fine. But thats not the message. Fear porn sells baby...and fear porn can give people power. Follow the science indeed. (Anybody that says that just means, follow the science that I believe in...and ignore any countervailing theory).
First post here for a while...

But yes, this is exactly right and more or less what I've being saying from the start.

However where I am (Aussie) we've had 1 whole death this year and we've just come out of a 2 and a half week lockdown (our 4th) over a few 'cases'. Not sure where its at now, but a week or so ago there was ONE person in the whole country in ICU (remember when it was about the health care system not being overwhelmed...). This, despite being constantly beat over the head with how deadly these new strains are...

Anyway, 1230 odd people died of the flu in 2017 here, compared to 909 from CV last year. 440 or so people die here everyday. But who cares about other communicable diseases or things like heart disease and cancer. Those things don't pull the fear porn ratings CV does.
I can give most people a big pass from the start. March, April, May of last year there were alot of unknowns. But as time went on....real world data started to come in...and further, the vaccines came in.....The risk is exceedingly low at this point. Gotta get on with it...or live in cave. But choices have to be made at this point. Enough of all of the sky is falling. The time for decisions to be made is now. (And for all of the idiots still wearing a mask while vaxxed....I see you...you are a science denier and virtue signaler (most likely)).
Nothing is political about the responses to diseases and epidemics until someone pretends that it is. A vaccine isn't political. Wearing a mask isn't political. Those hero scientists slaving away in labs trying to figure out how the human immune system could respond to this RNA virus wasn't like "oh yea I hope they vote for <insert politician here> once we perfect this thing!". It's just science. Period.
Sweet sweet summer child. Just look at the Wuhan lab theory, it was politically quashed (first by other scientists) in absolute spite of the fact it was a reasonable theory worth some research (whether true in the end, doesn't matter). That is just one example. Plus, there are policy decisions that are based on science and science can spin their own numbers to support outcomes. I don't like this either. I wish it was as you say, but it isn't. And it really never has.
 
Sweet sweet summer child. Just look at the Wuhan lab theory, it was politically quashed (first by other scientists) in absolute spite of the fact it was a reasonable theory worth some research (whether true in the end, doesn't matter). That is just one example. Plus, there are policy decisions that are based on science and science can spin their own numbers to support outcomes. I don't like this either. I wish it was as you say, but it isn't. And it really never has.
The worst part about this is, if it's true, the world has essentially given the Wuhan lab as well as the Chinese government well over a year and a half to cover things up, silence insiders, and destroy evidence. The massive delay in this being a socially acceptable hypothesis tells us that a large part of the medical and scientific community are being swayed by politics which is completely unacceptable.
 

Cracklox

Member
Australia has had military and police enforced quarantines for everyone arriving from overseas. The rest of the world has not done this. The lockdowns in Australia have also been much harsher - there were no police checkpoints to ensure people were staying home over here.

Yeah, nah. Nah

Only one state had checkpoints and harsh lockdowns (a population of 6.6 milliion out of nearly 26 mil) and again thats the state that accounts for over 800 of our 909 deaths. And those harsher measures only came in in August when we had our 'second wave' which kind of makes your point moot about reacting early and well. Our first lockdown from what I can tell, was pretty similar to the rest of the world, and enforced right around the same time everyone else was

And to relate to your first point, Victoria where most of the crap has happened, decided to use private security initially for hotel quarantine and thats where our second wave originated from. There were even reports at the time that some of the security guards were getting their freak on with people staying there and thats how it got out, but I'm not totally sold on that. There was much hoo ha about all of it when it happened too. Trust me, hotel quarantine and bungles relating to it are pretty much a weekly thing here.

And i live where we had checkpoints and curfews and all the dumb stuff. Didn't see one checkpoint. A friend of mine lives in Melbourne but works outside of it, and the city was supposedly surrounded by a 'Ring of Steel' police force. He was catching a train out to work for a few months (with his 'papers' ready) while that madness was happening and wasn't stopped once. Which I found kind of hilarious tbh. How could I possibly get past the impenetrable ring of steel? Why catch a train of course

So no, other then some severe overreach by one corner of the country when cases and deaths started to pile up, our lockdowns weren't any harsher or earlier then most anywhere else.

The worst part about this is, if it's true, the world has essentially given the Wuhan lab as well as the Chinese government well over a year and a half to cover things up, silence insiders, and destroy evidence. The massive delay in this being a socially acceptable hypothesis tells us that a large part of the medical and scientific community are being swayed by politics which is completely unacceptable.

There's a pretty solid meme doing the rounds in regards to this. Whats the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth?

Around 12 months or so.

Ba-dum tish

But yeah completely agree. The Jon Stewart/Colbert interview breaks it down pretty well why it makes sense to have originated from there. In an entertaining way too.
 

FunkMiller

Member
So no, other then some severe overreach by one corner of the country when cases and deaths started to pile up, our lockdowns weren't any harsher or earlier then most anywhere else.

Australia’s lockdown was a lot harder, faster and better than the UK’s, I know that much. Morrison shut the border to all foreigners three days before Boris even bothered to lockdown at all, and even then he didn’t stop international flights. That’s what made the difference - that, and like you say, the fact Australia is a big island far away from anywhere else.

Aus is just fucked now because the bible bashing twat screwed up the vaccine procurement.
 

Raven117

Member
The worst part about this is, if it's true, the world has essentially given the Wuhan lab as well as the Chinese government well over a year and a half to cover things up, silence insiders, and destroy evidence. The massive delay in this being a socially acceptable hypothesis tells us that a large part of the medical and scientific community are being swayed by politics which is completely unacceptable.
Yup. An absolute shame. I tell ya...if this was a truly dangerous pandemic with significant death rates, the whole world would be in big...big trouble.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Yeah, nah. Nah

Only one state had checkpoints and harsh lockdowns (a population of 6.6 milliion out of nearly 26 mil) and again thats the state that accounts for over 800 of our 909 deaths. And those harsher measures only came in in August when we had our 'second wave' which kind of makes your point moot about reacting early and well. Our first lockdown from what I can tell, was pretty similar to the rest of the world, and enforced right around the same time everyone else was

And to relate to your first point, Victoria where most of the crap has happened, decided to use private security initially for hotel quarantine and thats where our second wave originated from. There were even reports at the time that some of the security guards were getting their freak on with people staying there and thats how it got out, but I'm not totally sold on that. There was much hoo ha about all of it when it happened too. Trust me, hotel quarantine and bungles relating to it are pretty much a weekly thing here.

And i live where we had checkpoints and curfews and all the dumb stuff. Didn't see one checkpoint. A friend of mine lives in Melbourne but works outside of it, and the city was supposedly surrounded by a 'Ring of Steel' police force. He was catching a train out to work for a few months (with his 'papers' ready) while that madness was happening and wasn't stopped once. Which I found kind of hilarious tbh. How could I possibly get past the impenetrable ring of steel? Why catch a train of course

So no, other then some severe overreach by one corner of the country when cases and deaths started to pile up, our lockdowns weren't any harsher or earlier then most anywhere else.



There's a pretty solid meme doing the rounds in regards to this. Whats the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth?

Around 12 months or so.

Ba-dum tish

But yeah completely agree. The Jon Stewart/Colbert interview breaks it down pretty well why it makes sense to have originated from there. In an entertaining way too.

Most of the world didn't have 14 day mandatory hotel quarantines with guards. Yeah, your system failed once when your guards didn't do their jobs. That proves the point.

You didn't "see" checkpoints? That's nice. They didn't exist here.

Your original post had you equating COVID19 to Influenza. I'm saying you only have that viewpoint because you've been living within a sheltered cocoon.

Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that this years flu numbers are more than likely inaccurate and were lumped in with COVID cases.
No, that's not safe to say. At all. I send influenza swabs off on just about every one of my patients with respiratory illnesses. Not a single one has come back positive.
 
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BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yup. An absolute shame. I tell ya...if this was a truly dangerous pandemic with significant death rates, the whole world would be in big...big trouble.

There's been 3.8 million deaths rounds about, many left scarred for life from the effects of the disease, and that total - while still severe for modern times - is only that low because we don't live in the kind of world that existed during something like the Spanish Flu. We instead have modern medicine and technology, better sanitation, more effective masks, and can more easily distance and quickly wash our hands with soaps that actually destroy viruses and bacteria. Etc.

Ask the people in the impoverished parts of the world how things are going with each new outbreak.

That bit of obvious truth aside, and onto other things, it's kind of sad that the WHO still has to put out press releases like this for care providers: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-06...es-are-regulated-for-safety-and-effectiveness

I know not everyone is a highly educated and trained doctor / scientist out there on the front lines, but one would expect that a nurse or even an aide understands how vaccines work.
 

Raven117

Member
There's been 3.8 million deaths rounds about, many left scarred for life from the effects of the disease, and that total - while still severe for modern times - is only that low because we don't live in the kind of world that existed during something like the Spanish Flu. We instead have modern medicine and technology, better sanitation, more effective masks, and can more easily distance and quickly wash our hands with soaps that actually destroy viruses and bacteria. Etc.

Ask the people in the impoverished parts of the world how things are going with each new outbreak.

That bit of obvious truth aside, and onto other things, it's kind of sad that the WHO still has to put out press releases like this for care providers: https://www.who.int/news/item/11-06...es-are-regulated-for-safety-and-effectiveness

I know not everyone is a highly educated and trained doctor / scientist out there on the front lines, but one would expect that a nurse or even an aide understands how vaccines work.
And still not a high death rate. That's my point. If this was something that had the death rate of measles or some of the other tougher diseases...it would be much much worse.
 

pel1300

Member
June 2020 - I kept watching Darkhorse podcast and wondering when Bret Weinstein will appear on Rogan again to talk about covid lab leak and the riots all over America.

June 2021 - I've been waiting for Bret to appear on Rogan ever since youtube froze his main channel.

Also just noticed Bret's podcast is one of the highest listened to on both apply and spotify - sometimes higher than Jordan Peterson. I wonder if the youtube banning gave his spotify and apple numbers a boost.

 
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Excess

Member
Nothing is political about the responses to diseases and epidemics until someone pretends that it is. A vaccine isn't political. Wearing a mask isn't political. Those hero scientists slaving away in labs trying to figure out how the human immune system could respond to this RNA virus wasn't like "oh yea I hope they vote for <insert politician here> once we perfect this thing!". It's just science. Period.
Politics are about group decisions and how to execute them at scale, and therefore anything that may be immensely capital intensive and requiring the mobilization of human labor and resources across large swathes of individuals is, by definition, inherently political. You cannot divorce science from this, as much as you'd like to think you can.

Easiest case-in-point: We didn't go to the Moon because of science. We went to the Moon because we were at war.
 
We now hè Delta Plus !! Next month the sequel, Delta Mega Plus .

Plus seems to evade vaccination and natural immunization to some extent.

Sadly, we will keep to life with some kind of lock down and isolate strategy for the coming 10 years and in worst case 2 vaccinations a year with stuff into the veins .
Yeah zero chance.
 
Nothing is political about the responses to diseases and epidemics until someone pretends that it is. A vaccine isn't political. Wearing a mask isn't political. Those hero scientists slaving away in labs trying to figure out how the human immune system could respond to this RNA virus wasn't like "oh yea I hope they vote for <insert politician here> once we perfect this thing!". It's just science. Period.

Its not political, its corporate. Ever since peer reviews were used on things other than medicine it has research has become a rent seeking industry catering to the whims of science journals. Peer review was created so that medical research wouldnt become unethical but it has been put on everything and now has become corporate. hence why it is taking so long to create a decent vaccine.

Hence why research into ivermectin is silenced. The whole thing is a sham. And masks haven been shown to prevent the spread of the disease either. If you want to be safe, stay quite a distance from people as much as you can. And stay away from obese and sweaty people. They are the main spreaders of the disease(super spreaders).
 

Cyberpunkd

Member


This is the only ones they are talking about. I guarantee the number is much higher.

Your point? It's like the whole world woke up to the concept of risk vs. benefits overnight, whereas the concept is present in all aspects of our daily lives.

What is the alternative? Not to vaccinate? Then you will have endless lockdowns unless you say 'fuck it' and just let people die - not politically feasible.

I was looking at the number of daily cases here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ and then it hit me - there are as of today 1 508 patients in hospital in the WHOLE of UK, 250 patients in ICU. Compare that to France https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA - 9 771 patients hospitalized, 1 509 in reanimation. What sort of fear porn is this?

Isn't AZ vaccine much weaker against the Delta variant than the mRNA one?
 
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