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Yeah, almost nobody died in India
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, almost nobody died in India
How many of their cases were the Delta variant?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well this is somewhat disturbing... See table 4.
Of the Delta confirmed cases (strictly looking at those who received emergency care) from 1 February 2021 to 14 June 2021 in England, there are 73 total deaths, 34 of which were from unvaccinated individuals while 37 of which were from those who had received the vaccine and 26 of which had been two weeks or most past receiving their second dose... The denominator is also dramatically different with 35,521 confirmed cases among the unvaccinated and only 17,642 cases among those with some degree of vaccination (4087 who were past the two-week mark for their second dose). So, 27/4087 = ~0.7% death rate among those with two doses vs. 34/35,521 = ~0.1% death rate among the unvaccinated.
Obviously these limited data alone aren't enough to make any conclusions, but I would say it's potentially very worrying...
Of the Delta confirmed cases (strictly looking at those who received emergency care) from 1 February 2021 to 14 June 2021 in England, there are 73 total deaths, 34 of which were from unvaccinated individuals while 37 of which were from those who had received the vaccine and 26 of which had been two weeks or most past receiving their second dose... The denominator is also dramatically different with 35,521 confirmed cases among the unvaccinated and only 17,642 cases among those with some degree of vaccination (4087 who were past the two-week mark for their second dose). So, 27/4087 = ~0.7% death rate among those with two doses vs. 34/35,521 = ~0.1% death rate among the unvaccinated.
Obviously these limited data alone aren't enough to make any conclusions, but I would say it's potentially very worrying...
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TheDreadBaron
Member
I would imagine vaccinated people are more likely to be in a vulnerable group, but yeah it doesn't make the vaccine seem like the magic bullet.
That denominator doesn't include those who were exposed to the virus, but did not develop an infection (or the infection was mild enough for the person not to be tested). So it could be off by an order of magnitude, if we care about the protective quality of the vaccine.
Also the vaccinated and unvaccinated belong to different population groups, so for a valid comparison you would need two groups of people over 50, say: one receiving the vaccine and the other not.
Birdo
Banned
Yeah, almost nobody died in India
India was hit hard because of it's population density, bad healthcare system, and the fact that it has some of the worst sanitation in the developed world.
There is currently zero evidence that the Indian variant is more deadly then regular Covid.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Herd immunity means something to you?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Frankly if we had the chinese vaccines available I'd take them... inactivated virus is old, known technology.
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Griffon
Member
Yeah no shit Sherlock, that's what I got.
Good news tho, I got better, it took weeks but my heart is a bit more solid every day. Still not at 100% but closer to being fine. Hopefully.
I'm still afraid of the upcoming second jab tho...
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You had an adverse reaction to the first injection, and you're planning on going forward with the second shot, which seems to be more likely to produce adverse reactions?
Griffon
Member
Oh, no. I think I'm gonna delay it, likely indefinitely.
FunkMiller
Banned
Anecdotal, but if he had AZ I’ve heard pretty unanimous comments both from people I know and more generally online that the 2nd jab causes virtually no side effects. Was certainly the case for me.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
He got Pfizer like a month ago. And it's not like he just had a sore arm or a bit of a fever; the guy clearly suffered (is still suffering) from myocarditis. It seems foolish to me to even suggest that he might be better off going in for seconds, but I'm no medical professional. For Pfizer at least it seems like there are more serious adverse side effects reported after the 2nd dose than the 1st.
FunkMiller
Banned
Ah, well, can’t really comment on Pfizer. He should obviously do what his Healthcare professionals are advising.
McHuj
Member
Thank you. Sanity finally.
There's no way to this virus ever goes away at this point so it's time we just live with it. The original lockdowns were to "flatten the curve" and I think we've achieved that (at least in the UK and US.) With the number of people who have had it and and those that received vaccines, I don't think there's enough people remaining to really overwhelm the hospital systems. Sure some people will still get covid and and some will die, but that's just as with any other disease.
At this point, I think it makes most sense to focus on developing therapeutics, refining the vaccines, and maybe a public policy to address the fatness in society instead of calling it "healthy".
Raven117
Member
Yup. It’s the only way forward…. Unless you have other goals in mind…..
FunkMiller
Banned
Ha! This will just make Scott Morrison and the Australian government look even more pathetic. Singapore is one of the major transport connection hubs for the country, and if they relax things due to their successful vaccine rollout, Australia are going to look more and more isolated and backwards.
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MisterFalcon
Member
The mixing of numbers (using vaccinations needed to prevent one deats vs. deaths per 100k) immediately seems suspicious.
First they claim that 16k vaccinations are needed to prevent one death. Taking Israel for instance, 5,54 million people have been vaccinated which would mean, according to their calculations, that 346 lives were saved compared to not vaccinating anyone. While almost 6500 people have died from covid in Israel.
BouncyFrag
Member
A small slice of 1984:
TheDreadBaron
Member
All my teachers who said Wikipedia was a bullshit source because anyone can edit it may have been on to something
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Raven117
Member
Just something to consider. Many other emergencies ended up with governments seizing more power, why would this be any different?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Because if they were going to seize more power they would have done it while we were all locked in our houses last year when it would have been the easiest and had made the most sense. The governments of the world are not going to magically turn into iron handed dictatorships now that everything is starting to get back to normal. Especially in places like the US or the UK.
Being iffy on the science of the vaccine I don't agree with but I can at least understand. Being annoyed with having to wear masks or the lockdowns I also don't agree with but I understand. But the crackpot theories that this is all somehow a great ruse by the governments of the world to seize power was stupid last year when people started saying it at the beginning of the lockdowns and it's equally as stupid now that the lockdowns are all but over in most areas of the world.
Raven117
Member
I hear you, I'm not saying this is some full scale seize power thing. Its the small things....It always is. Just something to be mindful of when it looks like the things governments are doing things that don't make alot of sense. Thats just consistent with governments since the first government.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
They do not seize more power by continuing the lockdowns though, they gain more power by being able to use the same precedent outside of its original scope. Like the patriot act, they used the extra powers for surveillance and detainment way outside of their original scope of combating terrorism. Like with the Patriot act, hopefully it is challenged repeatedly in the courts.
MisterFalcon
Member
Hey, what a suprise, a Statement Of Concern about the 'peer reviewed' paper on how vaccines are almost as deadly as covid.
www.mdpi.com
Expression of Concern: Walach et al. The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy. Vaccines 2021, 9, 693
The journal is issuing this expression of concern to alert readers to significant concerns regarding the paper cited above [...]
www.mdpi.com
sackings
Member
Truth finally coming out about the incompetence of world govs dealing with this shit. I wont take any gen 1 vaccines, waiting on novavax one which I think will be pretty safe in comparison. And I'm only taking that shit because I'll likely need it to travel. If we had been treating people properly this entire time (MATH+ protocol) the pandemic would be over and life normal. But nah, fuck humans we want to make bank and sell you $200 annual shots and make billions per year on a shot.
Raven117
Member
The Patriot Act was exactly what I was thinking.
GamingKaiju
Member
UK posting +23K new cases but only 3 deaths. UK is going to be a interesting case because we have a high vaccination rate.
FunkMiller
Banned
Clearer and clearer evidence that the vaccines are working, and cases are beginning to no longer lead to serious illness and death. This reduces Covid to the same level of threat as other respiratory disease. A way to go yet for full confirmation, but everything pointing in the right direction. Every day more data comes out that shows how idiotic being anti-vax is.
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TheDreadBaron
Member
You know that hesitancy around volunteering yourself to receive new and poorly tested substances doesn’t equal anti-vax though right? I think we’re all on the same team of minimizing risk to as many people as possible, but some of us disagree what the best way to do that is. In personal discussions I’ve had “anti-vax” is a way to discredit and shut down this discussion, I don’t think it’s very productive to our shared goals of keeping people safe from harm.
FunkMiller
Banned
Sorry dude, but this most definitely the kind of thing anti-vaxxers come out with all the time! They weren’t poorly tested. They were thoroughly tested in double blind processes to check both efficacy and safety. Hence why all the world’s health agencies have passed them for use. A very few serious incidents of side effects don’t counter this reality. In fact, the very low figures (not ones found in random tweets) indicate that the testing process has been very good.
TheDreadBaron
Member
Meanwhile life was hard. The winter was as cold as the last one had been, and food was even shorter. Once again all rations were reduced, except those of the pigs and the dogs. A too rigid equality in rations, Squealer explained, would have been contrary to the principles of Animalism. In any case he had no difficulty in
proving to the other animals that they were not in reality short of food, whatever the appearances might be. For the time being, certainly, it had been found necessary to make a readjustment of rations (Squealer always spoke of it as a "readjustment," never as a "reduction"), but in comparison with the days of Jones, the improvement was enormous. Reading out the figures in a shrill, rapid voice, he proved to them in detail that they had more oats, more hay, more turnips than they had had in Jones's day, that they worked shorter hours, that their drinking water was of better quality, that they lived longer, that a larger proportion of their young ones survived infancy, and that they had more straw in their stalls and suffered less from fleas. The animals believed every word of it. Truth to tell, Jones and all he stood for had almost faded out of their memories. They knew that life nowadays was harsh and bare, that they were often hungry and often cold, and that they were usually working when they were not asleep. But doubtless it had been worse in the old days. They were glad to believe so. Besides, in those days they had been slaves and now they were free, and that made all the difference, as Squealer did not fail to point out.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Finally up to full immunity (two jabs + at least 14 days), it felt good not having to bother with a mask in this summer heat while grocery shopping. It was also nice seeing about 90% of others are now unmasked, which makes me hopeful that means they're all vaccinated.
Raven117
Member
Right on cue.
I know its not in the U.S., but this would be ruled unconstitutional in a freakin heartbeat.
And somehow, having skepticism against governments for seizing power got an eyeroll earlier today.
Birdo
Banned
I remember being told, at the start of the vaccine rollout, that it is far more effective than natural antibodies.
Well. There hasn't been a single recorded case of re-infection in the UK, but many cases of fully vaccinated being infected.
I guess we can put that argument to bed
Well. There hasn't been a single recorded case of re-infection in the UK, but many cases of fully vaccinated being infected.
I guess we can put that argument to bed
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arkhamguy123
Banned
This guy should share his crystal ball with humanity. Clairvoyance would be a huge asset to the world.
TheDreadBaron
Member
This has been proved by Science comrades.I remember being told, at the start of the vaccine rollout, that it is far more effective than natural antibodies.
Well. There hasn't been a single recorded case of re-infection in the UK, but many cases of fully vaccinated being infected.
I guess we can put that argument to bed
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Killer argument. Also - how many non-vaccinated people got infected vs. Vaccinated ones? Article published yesterday shows 65% of new UK infections are people that were not vaccinated. We’re you going to add that part as well?I remember being told, at the start of the vaccine rollout, that it is far more effective than natural antibodies.
Well. There hasn't been a single recorded case of re-infection in the UK, but many cases of fully vaccinated being infected.
I guess we can put that argument to bed
TheDreadBaron
Member
I don't think they're trying to argue the vaccine provides no protection, again I don't see any anti-vaxers in this thread.
So why would they add that unvaccinated people can get infected as if everyone didn't already know that?
The point they were making was about re-infection of people with natural antibodies versus the protection the vaccine provides and how people were encouraged to get vaccinated even if they had already been infected as well as told it provided better protection. That doesn't appear to be true, that's the point. Understand?
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Source?
"The current data shows that there is a low risk of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2. There were 15,893 possible reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 identified up to 30 May 2021 in England throughout the pandemic, out of nearly 4 million people with confirmed infections. This is equivalent to around 0.4% cases becoming reinfected."
New national surveillance of possible COVID-19 reinfection, published by PHE
New data suggests a low risk of COVID-19 reinfection in the population.