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[Cyberpunkd]

The point they were making was about re-infection of people with natural antibodies versus the protection the vaccine provides and how people were encouraged to get vaccinated even if they had already been infected as well as told it provided better protection. That doesn't appear to be true, that's the point. Understand?

I don't know what country are you speaking about - in France they started testing before giving you an injection since one dose + Covid > two doses without Covid. Most likely however the protection goes away faster than in the case of both doses, there was an article yesterday in the French press quoting research saying the antibodies will stay in your body for years, which is good for those that do not want to get vaccinated annually.

 

[FunkMiller]

Source?

"The current data shows that there is a low risk of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2. There were 15,893 possible reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 identified up to 30 May 2021 in England throughout the pandemic, out of nearly 4 million people with confirmed infections. This is equivalent to around 0.4% cases becoming reinfected."

New national surveillance of possible COVID-19 reinfection, published by PHE

New data suggests a low risk of COVID-19 reinfection in the population.

www.gov.uk

No point in posting official government Information, mate. Go find a random person on Twitter quoting an unverified scientific paper. That’s much more believable and accurate.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

No point in posting official government Information, mate. Go find a random person on Twitter quoting an unverified scientific paper. That’s much more believable and accurate.

OK, I'll bite. Y'all don't need to keep trying to put words in people's mouths to make it seem like they're stupid.

The link firefly posted claims 53 actual confirmed re-infections, so somewhere between 53 and 15,893. That's a pretty big spread. It would appear that Birdo's point about natural antibodies vs the vaccine still has merit, did anyone want to talk about that point or just make snide comments about how stupid the "other side" is?

You know we're on the same side, right? Of helping people, and not lying to them about their health. These are things we can agree on?

 

[FunkMiller]

OK, I'll bite. Y'all don't need to keep trying to put words in people's mouths to make it seem like they're stupid.

The link firefly posted claims 53 actual confirmed re-infections, so somewhere between 53 and 15,893. That's a pretty big spread. It would appear that Birdo's point about natural antibodies vs the vaccine still has merit, did anyone want to talk about that point or just make snide comments about how stupid the "other side" is?

You know we're on the same side, right? Of helping people, and not lying to them about their health. These are things we can agree on?

I'll continue to take the piss out of people who will totally believe something they see in a random Twitter post, but will deny information they get from official sources - because of some paranoid delusion that the establishment is lying to them for some cack-handed attempt at population control. Don't like it? Ignore button is right there, champ.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I'll continue to take the piss out of people who will totally believe something they see in a random Twitter post, but will deny information they get from official sources - because of some paranoid delusion that the establishment is lying to them for some cack-handed attempt at population control. Don't like it? Ignore button is right there, champ.

Ok, but this guy didn’t reference a random Twitter post. He reference the exact article you’re referring to. You’re making a lot of assumptions about other people’s beliefs and motives. Maybe don’t do that. Someone saying that natural borne immunity seems to be as good or better than vaccine acquired immunity isn’t some conspiracy theory covid denial. It’s a good faith position based on observable reality. And considering the amount of bullshit put forward by public health officials throughout this pandemic, it’s entirely fair to question them.

So if someone wants to question the idea that’s been put forward that natural immunity is somehow inferior, maybe spare the condescension. Or don’t. But it makes you seem like a bit of an unhinged asshole when you turn everyone into a straw man that you can sarcastically dismiss.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Someone saying that natural borne immunity seems to be as good or better than vaccine acquired immunity isn’t some conspiracy theory covid denial. It’s a good faith position based on observable reality.

But here's the thing - people saying that are making it sound like 'ah ha' moment, whereas even if it was true doesn't change anything. In fact minuscule number of people would be protected naturally, without the vaccine the rest would get sick, get hospitalized, get put in ICU and then die. Then as a result of hospitals being overwhelmed you would need to deprogram other treatments, meaning more people die. Then to keep the number of people low you would be in a near constant lockdown, with loss of jobs and economy going to shit until the moment collective immunity will be achieved by everyone (or 80%+) having Covid and either getting through it or dying.

Exactly the same thing with all the 'miracle drugs' - even if they worked, what then? How do you roll them within weeks as part of organized care? How do you procure enough supplies? What about side effects? People here are worried about vaccines, aren't you worried about using medicine not designed to fight Covid-19 to do exactly that, knowing it was developed for something completely else?

So as you can see 'asking questions' without providing answers just makes it seem like having no idea what you are talking about.

 

[FunkMiller]

Ok, but this guy didn’t reference a random Twitter post. He reference the exact article you’re referring to. You’re making a lot of assumptions about other people’s beliefs and motives. Maybe don’t do that. Someone saying that natural borne immunity seems to be as good or better than vaccine acquired immunity isn’t some conspiracy theory covid denial. It’s a good faith position based on observable reality. And considering the amount of bullshit put forward by public health officials throughout this pandemic, it’s entirely fair to question them.

So if someone wants to question the idea that’s been put forward that natural immunity is somehow inferior, maybe spare the condescension. Or don’t. But it makes you seem like a bit of an unhinged asshole when you turn everyone into a straw man that you can sarcastically dismiss.

Please. I never brought up any specific post in the comment that he responded to. I was clearly making a joke, and a comment on the more general capacity so many have around here for ignoring actual facts, while clinging on to spurious information that confirms their bias. It takes literally a matter of minutes to find verified documentation that natural immunity is nowhere near as good as vaccine immunity. It’s no excuse for not taking the vaccine - which of course is the motive behind all of this: to undermine vaccines, because people are either too scared or too selfish to take them. It’s as transparent as it is foolish.

 

[ManaByte]

No boosters:

 

[DaleinCalgary]

No boosters:

I'll bet there will be boosters in the regular flu shots

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Finally up to full immunity (two jabs + at least 14 days), it felt good not having to bother with a mask in this summer heat while grocery shopping. It was also nice seeing about 90% of others are now unmasked, which makes me hopeful that means they're all vaccinated.

I will be at full 2 shots Friday and yes it will feel good. But no way would I think 90% of people are vaccinated because not even close to 90% of people are vaccinated.

 

[DeepBreath87]

But here's the thing - people saying that are making it sound like 'ah ha' moment, whereas even if it was true doesn't change anything. In fact minuscule number of people would be protected naturally, without the vaccine the rest would get sick, get hospitalized, get put in ICU and then die. Then as a result of hospitals being overwhelmed you would need to deprogram other treatments, meaning more people die. Then to keep the number of people low you would be in a near constant lockdown, with loss of jobs and economy going to shit until the moment collective immunity will be achieved by everyone (or 80%+) having Covid and either getting through it or dying.

Exactly the same thing with all the 'miracle drugs' - even if they worked, what then? How do you roll them within weeks as part of organized care? How do you procure enough supplies? What about side effects? People here are worried about vaccines, aren't you worried about using medicine not designed to fight Covid-19 to do exactly that, knowing it was developed for something completely else?

So as you can see 'asking questions' without providing answers just makes it seem like having no idea what you are talking about.

No. That’s not what “people are saying”. That’s what you are saying. In the United States there have been 34 million documented cases. That’s 10% of the population that doesn’t need the vaccine.

Everyone readily admits there are way more actual cases than that where people had mild or asymptomatic disease and didn’t get tested, especially in lower income communities where testing wasn’t as available. It’s pretty conservative to double the number of actual cases. Something like 20% of the population will receive effectively zero benefit from the vaccine. In fact, they will be unnecessarily exposed to whatever risks there are from the vaccine (and there are definitely some, no matter how remote). The idea that we would require people who have positive antibody tests to be vaccinated to return to college, for instance, is anti science. It’s pure nonsense.

So no, people making arguments about natural immunity aren’t anti vaccine. Quite the opposite. Vaccines are important for people who have never had covid. People arguing for the vaccination of people who have recovered from covid are anti science.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

No. That’s not what “people are saying”. That’s what you are saying. In the United States there have been 34 million documented cases. That’s 10% of the population that doesn’t need the vaccine.

Everyone readily admits there are way more actual cases than that where people had mild or asymptomatic disease and didn’t get tested, especially in lower income communities where testing wasn’t as available. It’s pretty conservative to double the number of actual cases. Something like 20% of the population will receive effectively zero benefit from the vaccine. In fact, they will be unnecessarily exposed to whatever risks there are from the vaccine (and there are definitely some, no matter how remote). The idea that we would require people who have positive antibody tests to be vaccinated to return to college, for instance, is anti science. It’s pure nonsense.

So no, people making arguments about natural immunity aren’t anti vaccine. Quite the opposite. Vaccines are important for people who have never had covid. People arguing for the vaccination of people who have recovered from covid are anti science.

You are living in a dream world. People have got covid twice and getting a virus once doesnt mean you are immune to it because it has been mutating like all viruses do, you dont get immune to the regular flu after getting it once.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I will be at full 2 shots Friday and yes it will feel good. But no way would I think 90% of people are vaccinated because not even close to 90% of people are vaccinated.

Yeah that's why I never stopped wearing my mask when I go out to places like WalMart or the grocery store. Especially since I live in Texas. Just an abundance of caution.

 

[BadBurger]

I will be at full 2 shots Friday and yes it will feel good. But no way would I think 90% of people are vaccinated because not even close to 90% of people are vaccinated.

Yea I was referring to only the people in my area. My city isn't some kind of anti-vax, anti science stronghold or anything.

 

[Birdo]

Finally up to full immunity (two jabs + at least 14 days)

Sadly, full immunity doesn't seem to exist.

My GP was double jabbed and still got Covid (Thanfully, his symptoms were identical to my un-vaccinated sister. A cough for a week then back to normal).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Exactly the same thing with all the 'miracle drugs' - even if they worked, what then? How do you roll them within weeks as part of organized care? How do you procure enough supplies? What about side effects? People here are worried about vaccines, aren't you worried about using medicine not designed to fight Covid-19 to do exactly that, knowing it was developed for something completely else?

Why would the roll out of mass produceable cheap drugs be an insurmountable hurdle when large parts of the world managed to do it for multiple brand new vaccines? Depending on what we're talking about it, it's far easier, since we already have an existing pharmacy network with a prescription system. No need to have a trained person administer an injection.

Why would anyone be worried about side effects in drugs that have been around for decades and have been shown to work for a variety of purposes while being overwhelmingly safe? Plenty of drugs are found to be effective at treating other issues for which they were not originally intended. No idea why that would be a concern.

This is all assuming that stuff like Ivermectin actually is a "miracle drug." The evidence seems compelling, but I think we still don't know for sure.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Source?

"The current data shows that there is a low risk of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2. There were 15,893 possible reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 identified up to 30 May 2021 in England throughout the pandemic, out of nearly 4 million people with confirmed infections. This is equivalent to around 0.4% cases becoming reinfected."

New national surveillance of possible COVID-19 reinfection, published by PHE

New data suggests a low risk of COVID-19 reinfection in the population.

www.gov.uk

While certainly not "not a single recorded case" as Birdo mentioned, it's still just 53 confirmed reinfections out of millions and millions of original cases. Meanwhile, in England, as of June 21st there are a bare minimum of 7,235 Delta variant infections among those with two doses of the vaccine. I say "bare minimum" because this looks only at people who received emergency care.

 

[Raven117]

WHO Urges Fully Vaccinated People To Continue Wearing Masks As Delta Variant Spreads—But No Word From CDC

“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses” in areas where community transmission is high, one official said.

www.forbes.com

Yall see this? Lol! Follow the science indeed.

 

[DeepBreath87]

You are living in a dream world. People have got covid twice and getting a virus once doesnt mean you are immune to it because it has been mutating like all viruses do, you dont get immune to the regular flu after getting it once.

People have gotten the virus after getting the vaccine. We aren’t discussing whether such a thing is possible. We are discussing whether naturally acquired immunity is inferior to vaccine acquired immunity, which has been argued by numerous people. There is literally zero evidence that the vaccines produce superior protection to natural immune protection post covid infection. Of course I’m open to you providing evidence of that if you have it.

 

[FireFly]

While certainly not "not a single recorded case" as Birdo mentioned, it's still just 53 confirmed reinfections out of millions and millions of original cases. Meanwhile, in England, as of June 21st there are a bare minimum of 7,235 Delta variant infections among those with two doses of the vaccine. I say "bare minimum" because this looks only at people who received emergency care.

As I understand the report, the rest of the cases were not confirmed because sequencing was not available for one of the infections. There is moreover the question of if it is even possible to confirm re-infections with the same variant (as opposed to a single ongoing infection), since the current method seems to rely on detecting different variants in the same person.

Edit: To be clear, even if all of the "possible reinfections" were actual reinfections, natural immunity would still appear to confer more immediate protection against catching the virus. But that isn't so interesting in itself, since the main reason for not actively trying to develop natural immunity (COVID parties etc.), is the risk of severe illness and death. The more interesting question is whether getting a vaccine after having an existing infection decreases the chance of reinfection further, or lengthens the protective effect. And I don't see that this question has been answered.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I'll continue to take the piss out of people who will totally believe something they see in a random Twitter post, but will deny information they get from official sources - because of some paranoid delusion that the establishment is lying to them for some cack-handed attempt at population control. Don't like it? Ignore button is right there, champ.

I don't see the value in ignoring people I disagree with, I prefer discussion lest I become a prisoner of my own limited perspective.

Personally, I don't think we need to assign a nefarious supervillain motive like population control to that which can be explained by incompetent greedy leaders who are lining their pharma pal's pockets and passing the buck on taking responsibility.

Tale as old as time,
Song as old as rhyme,
Incompetence and greed

 

[Deleted member 17706]

As I understand the report, the rest of the cases were not confirmed because sequencing was not available for one of the infections. There is moreover the question of if it is even possible to confirm re-infections with the same variant (as opposed to a single ongoing infection), since the current method seems to rely on detecting different variants in the same person.

Edit: To be clear, even if all of the "possible reinfections" were actual reinfections, natural immunity would still appear to confer more immediate protection against catching the virus. But that isn't so interesting in itself, since the main reason for not actively trying to develop natural immunity (COVID parties etc.), is the risk of severe illness and death. The more interesting question is whether getting a vaccine after having an existing infection decreases the chance of reinfection further, or lengthens the protective effect. And I don't see that this question has been answered.

Oh, yeah, I don't disagree with what you're saying. It's certainly a lot easier to verify vaccination status than it is to verify past infection.

 

[pel1300]

I don't see the value in ignoring people I disagree with, I prefer discussion lest I become a prisoner of my own limited perspective.

Personally, I don't think we need to assign a nefarious supervillain motive like population control to that which can be explained by incompetent greedy leaders who are lining their pharma pal's pockets and passing the buck on taking responsibility.

Tale as old as time,
Song as old as rhyme,
Incompetence and greed

You're trying to reason with a statist.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

You're trying to reason with a statist.

Yeah but isn't that what internet forums are for?

I don't fault people for wanting to have a simple official story that says everything is under control as long as you follow the rules. I love following the rules, but I know the authorities are fallible and I've seen a lot of sketchy shit so far.

Look, I took some LSD the other night and was able to step outside all this petty squabbling, and I think everyone is just trying to understand and control their own situation. My brief window of enlightenment and connectedness is why I want to keep coming back to the fact that we actually all have the same goals here.

 

[ManaByte]

L.A. County urges everyone to wear masks in public indoor places as delta variant spreads

Health officials in Los Angeles County now strongly recommend that people wear masks indoors in public places — regardless of their vaccination status — to prevent the spread of the highly transmis…

ktla.com

If LA County is doing this, CA will probably mandate it by the weekend.

 

[MachRc]

Sadly, full immunity doesn't seem to exist.

My GP was double jabbed and still got Covid (Thanfully, his symptoms were identical to my un-vaccinated sister. A cough for a week then back to normal).

This is very true, my own sister got it last week, with her friends, and they all have been vaccinated.

Ive been mask free for like 2 weeks... such a bummer

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is very true, my own sister got it last week, with her friends, and they all have been vaccinated.

Ive been mask free for like 2 weeks... such a bummer

What is a bummer? That people are getting cold symptoms after freely interacting with people like normal for the first time in a year plus?

The only way to guarantee you never get sick again is to basically live in a bubble and avoid contact with other living creatures, but that will harm your health as well.

I just don't get what kind of crazy utopia people are expecting. It's like the expectation for some people is that we come out of this pandemic somehow more protected and safe than we were our entire lives before COVID.

 

[MachRc]

bummer that I may have to wear masks again in public in fear of catching the double mutant india variant.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[poppabk]

I remember being told, at the start of the vaccine rollout, that it is far more effective than natural antibodies.

Well. There hasn't been a single recorded case of re-infection in the UK, but many cases of fully vaccinated being infected.

I guess we can put that argument to bed

Who told you any of these things? Making up a strawman argument and then demolishing it with made up data is a new one.

 

[Halo is Back]

It seems the US government is all but begging on their knees for people to get the shot. It's kinda pathetic if you ask me. If people don't want it, they don't want it. Trying to "convince" people by making a lottery winner out of it is pretty shady imo. I also say this as someone who already got the shot back in April.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It seems the US government is all but begging on their knees for people to get the shot. It's kinda pathetic if you ask me. If people don't want it, they don't want it. Trying to "convince" people by making a lottery winner out of it is pretty shady imo. I also say this as someone who already got the shot back in April.

It's beyond bizarre, especially now that we're seeing increased fortification of the narrative that the Delta variant is an significant concern even for fully vaccinated people.

 

[GamingKaiju]

With the news that the O/AZ vaccine is not as effective against the delta variant I don’t think I’ll be opting for another booster vaccine unless I can get the Pfizer and is ok for use with people who had the O/AZ previously.

 

[Fox Mulder]

WHO Urges Fully Vaccinated People To Continue Wearing Masks As Delta Variant Spreads—But No Word From CDC

“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses” in areas where community transmission is high, one official said.

www.forbes.com

Yall see this? Lol! Follow the science indeed.

lol good luck with that. I haven’t worn a mask since April after getting vaccinated and everywhere I go seems back to normal with few masks.

Even with all the science, at some point you lose the room.

 

[dcll]

Im listening to the jre with Bret Weinstein and Dr Pierre, insanely obvious and disgusting what is going on

 

[Raven117]

lol good luck with that. I haven’t worn a mask since April after getting vaccinated and everywhere I go seems back to normal with few masks.

Even with all the science, at some point you lose the room.

Yup. No way we are going back (unless some variant is absolutely 100 percent not addressed by the vaccine).

 

[JORMBO]

It seems the US government is all but begging on their knees for people to get the shot. It's kinda pathetic if you ask me. If people don't want it, they don't want it. Trying to "convince" people by making a lottery winner out of it is pretty shady imo. I also say this as someone who already got the shot back in April.

It’s most likely because they set goals very loudly and are falling short of meeting those goals.

 

[Birdo]

Who told you any of these things? Making up a strawman argument and then demolishing it with made up data is a new one.

This was mainstream media stuff, not things I saw on Twitter or Youtube.

So many things they said have been memory holed. It's almost becoming surreal.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It’s most likely because they set goals very loudly and are falling short of meeting those goals.

Small gatherings in our backyards for Independence Day are at stake here!!!

 

[vpance]

What is a bummer? That people are getting cold symptoms after freely interacting with people like normal for the first time in a year plus?

The only way to guarantee you never get sick again is to basically live in a bubble and avoid contact with other living creatures, but that will harm your health as well.

I just don't get what kind of crazy utopia people are expecting. It's like the expectation for some people is that we come out of this pandemic somehow more protected and safe than we were our entire lives before COVID.

The public isn't able to put the actual risks into perspective, because it's not being communicated to them. Nor are the details behind the efficacy of vaccines or things like wearing masks outside.

No risks can be reduced to zero but it seems like we're being led on a path where anything will be done to justify and achieve that.

 

[poppabk]

This was mainstream media stuff, not things I saw on Twitter or Youtube.

So many things they said have been memory holed. It's almost becoming surreal.

Not only did people memory hole it, it was also scrubbed from the internet. Or, you know it never actually happened.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Not only did people memory hole it, it was also scrubbed from the internet. Or, you know it never actually happened.

Fauci: Why COVID vaccines work better than natural infection alone

Fauci points to several new studies which show COVID-19 vaccines boost protection from concerning variants among people who've had prior infections.

www.businessinsider.com

The part about vaccines being better than natural immunity isn’t something he made up. Now whether reinfections are lower than vaccine breakthrough cases, I cannot say. But the narrative about vaccines being better than natural immunity is not a straw man he built.

 

[Karmic Raze]

I’m finally getting my COVID vaccination on Thursday. Johnson & Johnson. I know it’s way late, but better late than never, right?

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I’m finally getting my COVID vaccination on Thursday. Johnson & Johnson. I know it’s way late, but better late than never, right?

Make sure to take all precautions and monitor yourself for blood clots. It's a known problem with the J&J, according to google:

Signs to look for
People who develop a severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within six to 13 days after J&J vaccination are being advised to contact their physician to assess them for the treatment required for this type of blood clot.

I don't want to scare you, just be aware of the risks and stay safe!

 

[Karmic Raze]

Thanks for your concern. I read that only like 15 people developed blood clots and all of them were women under the age of 50. I’m male, so I am hoping everything goes smoothly. I will still monitor my symptoms, though. I really appreciate your post!

 

[DaleinCalgary]

People have gotten the virus after getting the vaccine. We aren’t discussing whether such a thing is possible. We are discussing whether naturally acquired immunity is inferior to vaccine acquired immunity, which has been argued by numerous people. There is literally zero evidence that the vaccines produce superior protection to natural immune protection post covid infection. Of course I’m open to you providing evidence of that if you have it.

No studies have shown that either is better most likely because its difficult to prove, but both do. Getting the shot is easy and relying on Twitter and Fox News for accurate info is dangerous.

This isn't chickenpox where you can say just get it and you are done.

 

[ULTROS!]

Just to share: since our country is starting to get vaccinated, even if fully vaccinated, people are very hesitant to go out without a mask.

Also to share, the most common ways of transmission here: eating out, office setting, and family gatherings (which are spread out to other family members).

 

[Punished Miku]

Im listening to the jre with Bret Weinstein and Dr Pierre, insanely obvious and disgusting what is going on

Yeah, I'm going to listen to it when I get off work today. Sounds like a bombshell.

 

[FunkMiller]

I’m finally getting my COVID vaccination on Thursday. Johnson & Johnson. I know it’s way late, but better late than never, right?

Congrats. You only have to go and get jabbed once! And you'll be fine. The vaccines carry less risk that taking an aspirin.

 

[Karmic Raze]

Congrats. You only have to go and get jabbed once! And you'll be fine. The vaccines carry less risk that taking an aspirin.

Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I went with J&J. It’ll be so nice going out without a mask after the vaccine settles in. Thanks, though. I am pretty excited to just get this shit over with.