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[FunkMiller]

Is this US? Literally 10 000 people die to Covid every 3-4 days?

Yes. That’s the current seven day average for the USA.

Here’s the whole thing:

 

[FunkMiller]

Well, I enterpreted it to mean over the next election cycle, since the topic was whether COVID could effect the results. Obviously if COVID doesn't go away, eventually deaths will catch up.

If hundreds of Republican voting adults are dying a day… and given the tight US electoral map… Covid anti-vaxxers could well have a dramatic effect on the next general election, if enough die in the tight swing states.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Zoom out. July 7th?

 

[Ulysses 31]

As long as it won't have another creation going against its creator theme...

 

[JumpMan1981]

LOL. So Men_in_Boxes posts on September 30th that the majority of COVID deaths are behind us.

Your oh so smart response is to show a graph showing not only the deaths from the day before but also that the number of daily deaths has been declining from what looks like early to mid-September.

"The majority of COVID deaths are behind us".

This recent wave of deaths in the US seems to have peaked on September 15th and looks to be significantly smaller than the previous wave at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021 and a little smaller than the initial wave in early 2020.

"The majority of COVID deaths are behind us".

The total number of deaths in the US so far is at 713,953.

Are you saying that there will be more than a further 713,953 additional COVID deaths in the USA from today onwards?
Or do you think the majority of covid deaths are behind them in the USA?
Remember, we don't want to spread misinformation here.

 

[funkygunther]

LOL. So Men_in_Boxes posts on September 30th that the majority of COVID deaths are behind us.

Your oh so smart response is to show a graph showing not only the deaths from the day before but also that the number of daily deaths has been declining from what looks like early to mid-September.

"The majority of COVID deaths are behind us".

This recent wave of deaths in the US seems to have peaked on September 15th and looks to be significantly smaller than the previous wave at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021 and a little smaller than the initial wave in early 2020.

"The majority of COVID deaths are behind us".

The total number of deaths in the US so far is at 713,953.

Are you saying that there will be more than a further 713,953 additional COVID deaths in the USA from today onwards?
Or do you think the majority of covid deaths are behind them in the USA?
Remember, we don't want to spread misinformation here.

please provide evidence that majority of covid deaths are behind us, showing clearly deaths over a specific timeline

 

[FunkMiller]

Are you saying that there will be more than a further 713,953 additional COVID deaths in the USA from today onwards?
Or do you think the majority of covid deaths are behind them in the USA?
Remember, we don't want to spread misinformation here.

So, if there are tens of million anti-vaxxers in the US (and that’s a pretty good estimate I think, given the political and social make up of the country) then yes… there could well be more than 714,000 Covid deaths in the USA in the coming years and decades. Covid is not going anywhere, just like other coronaviruses. A few vaccinated people with severe comorbidities will continue to die, but the vast majority over time will be unvaccinated. That’s how these things work.

 

[JumpMan1981]

please provide evidence that majority of covid deaths are behind us, showing clearly deaths over a specific timeline

I'm not saying that the majority are or are not behind us.
Men_in_Boxes reckons that this is the case for the USA.

The current death toll in the US is 713,953 and with the large numbers of people getting vaccinated it seems like less than this number will die in the future.

A feature of the vaccination program pretty much everywhere at this point is that as more people get vaccinated the number of COVID related deaths goes down.

So it's pretty easy to make the prediction that the majority of covid deaths are in the past for a country like the US.

Unless you've got some other information on this?
I reckon at the current 7 day average you would need 360 continuous days of the same daily average deaths before you would get to 1,427,906 deaths which would be the point where a statement on the 30th of September 2021 that "the majority of covid deaths are behind us" would be false.

I think Men_in_Boxes is probably about right.
With so many people vaccinated now and many more to follow (I think the US plans to vaccinate kids too?) it is very likely that the USA has gotten over the worst of this. At least it would probably take a few years for the death toll to rise to 1,427,907 at which point the statement would indeed be false.

I think FunkMiller probably just was a bit quick to rush in with the mockery and didn't really engage their brain first.
We've all been there.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm not saying that the majority are or are not behind us.
Men_in_Boxes reckons that this is the case for the USA.

The current death toll in the US is 713,953 and with the large numbers of people getting vaccinated it seems like less than this number will die in the future.

A feature of the vaccination program pretty much everywhere at this point is that as more people get vaccinated the number of COVID related deaths goes down.

So it's pretty easy to make the prediction that the majority of covid deaths are in the past for a country like the US.

Unless you've got some other information on this?
I reckon at the current 7 day average you would need 360 continuous days of the same daily average deaths before you would get to 1,427,906 deaths which would be the point where a statement on the 30th of September 2021 that "the majority of covid deaths are behind us" would be false.

I think Men_in_Boxes is probably about right.
With so many people vaccinated now and many more to follow (I think the US plans to vaccinate kids too?) it is very likely that the USA has gotten over the worst of this. At least it would probably take a few years for the death toll to rise to 1,427,907 at which point the statement would indeed be false.

I think FunkMiller probably just was a bit quick to rush in with the mockery and didn't really engage their brain first.
We've all been there.

Stop thinking so short term. Start thinking in terms of decades. It’s not going anywhere. And there are a lot of anti-vaxxers.

 

[JumpMan1981]

So, if there are tens of million anti-vaxxers in the US (and that’s a pretty good estimate I think, given the political and social make up of the country) then yes… there could well be more than 714,000 Covid deaths in the USA in the coming years and decades. Covid is not going anywhere, just like other coronaviruses. A few vaccinated people with severe comorbidities will continue to die, but the vast majority over time will be unvaccinated. That’s how these things work.

Dude. Think before you post.

Right now the US has 44,199,496 cases.
That's "tens of million" right there.
713,953 deaths in total from those 44,199,496 cases.

So even if there are tens of millions of anti-vaxxers they won't all catch covid.
Even if they do then they won't all die.
Your prediction also assumes that nobody will develop and effective treatment in the mean time.

So it's not likely there will be a further 713,953 deaths.

Hence "the majority of covid deaths are behind us".

 

[funkygunther]

I'm not saying that the majority are or are not behind us.
Men_in_Boxes reckons that this is the case for the USA.

The current death toll in the US is 713,953 and with the large numbers of people getting vaccinated it seems like less than this number will die in the future.

A feature of the vaccination program pretty much everywhere at this point is that as more people get vaccinated the number of COVID related deaths goes down.

So it's pretty easy to make the prediction that the majority of covid deaths are in the past for a country like the US.

Unless you've got some other information on this?
I reckon at the current 7 day average you would need 360 continuous days of the same daily average deaths before you would get to 1,427,906 deaths which would be the point where a statement on the 30th of September 2021 that "the majority of covid deaths are behind us" would be false.

I think Men_in_Boxes is probably about right.
With so many people vaccinated now and many more to follow (I think the US plans to vaccinate kids too?) it is very likely that the USA has gotten over the worst of this. At least it would probably take a few years for the death toll to rise to 1,427,907 at which point the statement would indeed be false.

I think FunkMiller probably just was a bit quick to rush in with the mockery and didn't really engage their brain first.
We've all been there.

well you're the one bringing up misinformation, and it's telling that you didn't go after the source but rather a response to it..."probably about right" doesn't cut it when you want to bring up misinformation, you have no proof and plucked a prediction out of the air to run with

oh and nice try with the 7-day average though, that wasn't the initial claim...but you want to defend it, you provide your workings so I'll ask in December 2025 how many deaths in the USA are there from covid? This is information you need if you're going to stand by such spurious claims

 

[JumpMan1981]

Stop thinking so short term. Start thinking in terms of decades. It’s not going anywhere. And there are a lot of anti-vaxxers.

If it takes decades to have another 700k deaths from this then I think we would all breath one huge sigh of relief.
I'd say that decades from now even the most vaccine hesitant person would be on board so you'd only have a small number of true anti-vax people left.
More than likely treatments would be pretty advanced by then too.

I think you could at least concede that the worst is behind us then?

 

[FunkMiller]

Dude. Think before you post.

Right now the US has 44,199,496 cases.
That's "tens of million" right there.
713,953 deaths in total from those 44,199,496 cases.

So even if there are tens of millions of anti-vaxxers they won't all catch covid.
Even if they do then they won't all die.
Your prediction also assumes that nobody will develop and effective treatment in the mean time.

So it's not likely there will be a further 713,953 deaths.

Hence "the majority of covid deaths are behind us".

Dude... I do think before I post, and you have zero evidence to support the opinion that less than 714,000 Americans will die of Covid for the rest of time.

I think it’s eminently possible - seeing as so many are anti-vax, and will continue to be anti-vax due to politics and religious belief.

And what are you on about talking about an effective treatment being developed?

It already exists. It’s called the vaccine. That’s what stops coronaviruses.

 

[funkygunther]

I think you could at least concede that the worst is behind us then?

is this a goalpost moving?

 

[FunkMiller]

If it takes decades to have another 700k deaths from this then I think we would all breath one huge sigh of relief.
I'd say that decades from now even the most vaccine hesitant person would be on board so you'd only have a small number of true anti-vax people left.
More than likely treatments would be pretty advanced by then too.

I think you could at least concede that the worst is behind us then?

The worst of the pandemic, yes. But that wasn’t what this discussion was about. The claim was that less Americans will die moving forward. Given probable long term levels of severe vaccine hesitancy and political stupidity, I don’t concur.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

well you're the one bringing up misinformation

JumpMan1981 you've been accused of spreading misinformation. You are now an enemy of the state. Please stay inside your house while authorities are dispatched to transport you to reeducation center. Citizens who alerted us of your crime will be given the true Patriot star.

 

[JumpMan1981]

well you're the one bringing up misinformation, and it's telling that you didn't go after the source but rather a response to it..."probably about right" doesn't cut it when you want to bring up misinformation, you have no proof and plucked a prediction out of the air to run with

oh and nice try with the 7-day average though, that wasn't the initial claim...but you want to defend it, you provide your workings so I'll ask in December 2025 how many deaths in the USA are there from covid? This is information you need if you're going to stand by such spurious claims

The source was Worldometer same source as FunkMiller used.

Listen, if you are willing to go THIS hard on someone essentially saying "we're already through the worst of this" then is anything I say really going to help you out?

Please continue fear mongering. Many, many, people are getting vaccinated now and the vaccines work so why would anybody assume that the situation will somehow be worse in the future?

Vaccines improving, people becoming less-hesitant, kids getting the vaccine, better treatments being devleoped.
You really want to jump on someone for saying "the majority of COVID deaths are behind us"?

Fuckin behave yourself.

 

[funkygunther]

JumpMan1981 you've been accused of spreading misinformation. You are now an enemy of the state. Please stay inside your house while authorities are dispatched to transport you to reeducation center. Citizens who alerted us of your crime will be given the true Patriot star.

I didn't accuse anyone, but since you're here can you provide the evidence for your claim that majority of covid deaths are behind us?

 

[DaleinCalgary]

The worst of the pandemic is not over. Some areas that are vaccinated are getting less cases and those areas that are not up to par on vaccinations are still fucked up.

 

[JumpMan1981]

The worst of the pandemic, yes. But that wasn’t what this discussion was about. The claim was that less Americans will die moving forward. Given probable long term levels of severe vaccine hesitancy and political stupidity, I don’t concur.

And you couldn't have just said it like that from the beginning?

What's with the snidey attitude towards people who are maybe not as pessimistic or as negative as you are?

 

[JumpMan1981]

The worst of the pandemic is not over. Some areas that are vaccinated are getting less cases and those areas that are not up to par on vaccinations are still fucked up.

Think they were just talking about the USA. Happy to correct myself if that's not the case. I think some countries still have a long ways to go. Hopefully they can get vaccinated a bit more quickly though.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I didn't accuse anyone, but since you're here can you provide the evidence for your claim that majority of covid deaths are behind us?

 

[funkygunther]

The source was Worldometer same source as FunkMiller used.

Listen, if you are willing to go THIS hard on someone essentially saying "we're already through the worst of this" then is anything I say really going to help you out?

Please continue fear mongering. Many, many, people are getting vaccinated now and the vaccines work so why would anybody assume that the situation will somehow be worse in the future?

Vaccines improving, people becoming less-hesitant, kids getting the vaccine, better treatments being devleoped.
You really want to jump on someone for saying "the majority of COVID deaths are behind us".

Fuckin behave yourself.

if asking for evidence for a bold claim is "jumping" then I'm a happy jumper indeed, maybe I should take your username? if you want to interpret words a certain way great, I will interpret it how I see it and if that makes you swear at me then all the better for it

 

[FunkMiller]

And you couldn't have just said it like that from the beginning?

What's with the snidey attitude towards people who are maybe not as pessimistic or as negative as you are?

What the fuck are you on about? My post was pointing out how Men In Boxes couldn’t make the claim that the majority of deaths were behind us. Nothing snidey about that. You’re the one that came in with that, pal.

And pessimistic? I’m not pessimistic in the slightest, chap. I’m not in America, where there’s such a big anti-vax problem!

 

[JumpMan1981]

JumpMan1981 you've been accused of spreading misinformation. You are now an enemy of the state. Please stay inside your house while authorities are dispatched to transport you to reeducation center. Citizens who alerted us of your crime will be given the true Patriot star.

Nooooooooo! I was just trying to be positive and was using the data to back up my positive point of view!

Ahem. Sorry. What I meant to say was...

What's that? YOU THINK THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER!? cAn yOU ProViDE tHe evIDenCE FOr yoUR cLAiM?

 

[Chaplain]

 

[FunkMiller]

Nooooooooo! I was just trying to be positive and was using the data to back up my positive point of view!

Ahem. Sorry. What I meant to say was...

What's that? YOU THINK THINGS ARE GOING TO GET BETTER!? cAn yOU ProViDE tHe evIDenCE FOr yoUR cLAiM?

What's funny about this point of view is that you think those of us who disagree with you are pessimistic or negative about what's currently happening.

Do you really believe we're really all that upset about anti-vaxxers dying?

Because I an incredibly optimistic about how the rest of this pandemic plays out among the vaccinated. I'm in a country with over 82% of the adult population vaccinated, where the death rate is now back within the annual average. It's fantastic. Life has returned to normal for me.

The only people continuing to suffer are those that choose to because of their unwillingness to get a simple jab in the arm, and those that are still having to shield thanks to the anti-vaxxers, because they can't take the vaccine even if they want to.

You're fighting a fight that ended months ago, pal.

 

[JumpMan1981]

What's funny about this point of view is that you think those of us who disagree with you are pessimistic or negative about what's currently happening.

Do you really believe we're really all that upset about anti-vaxxers dying?

Because I an incredibly optimistic about how the rest of this pandemic plays out among the vaccinated. I'm in a country with over 82% of the adult population vaccinated, where the death rate is now back within the annual average. It's fantastic. Life has returned to normal for me.

The only people continuing to suffer are those that choose to because of their unwillingness to get a simple jab in the arm, and those that are still having to shield thanks to the anti-vaxxers, because they can't take the vaccine even if they want to.

You're fighting a fight that ended months ago, pal.

"Do you really believe we're really all that upset about anti-vaxxers dying?"

I don't know what to say. Yes?
I kind of did believe that. Or at least assumed it.
Jeez. Dark.

Don't think there's much more to really say after a statement like that.

 

[FunkMiller]

"Do you really believe we're really all that upset about anti-vaxxers dying?"

I don't know what to say. Yes?
I kind of did believe that. Or at least assumed it.
Jeez. Dark.

Don't think there's much more to really say after a statement like that.

Ah. here we go. I knew my little bait would get a hook.

Tell you what... how about you tell me how you feel about the thousands and thousands of poor immunocompromised people who are forced to shield in their houses still because of the anti-vaxxers? Any sympathy for them at all? Or are you just going to get all up on your high moral horse over the nasty pro-vaxxer not having many feels for your anti-vax friends?

I've asked several of you this question already, and yet none seem to want to provide an answer. You going to be any different?

 

[JumpMan1981]

Ah. here we go. I knew my little bait would get a hook.

Tell you what... how about you tell me how you feel about the thousands and thousands of poor immunocompromised people who are forced to shield in their houses still because of the anti-vaxxers? Any sympathy for them at all? Or are you just going to get all up on your high moral horse over the nasty pro-vaxxer not having many feels for your anti-vax friends?

I've asked several of you this question already, and yet none seem to want to provide an answer. You going to be any different?

Sympathy? Yes, of course.

The conundrum is that I also believe strongly in the concept of consent and the idea that people should be fully autonomous with choosing what they do or do not put into their bodies.

It's an impasse.

Person X says to Person Y "please take this drug so I might live".
For me, while this is not too much to ask, it is certainly too much to demand.

I am not comfortable with the idea that we could or should circumvent consent by coercion. There has to be another solution and if there isn't then it's right back to square one.

How could I, if put in such a situation, demand that another person inject a substance into their body, possibly against their will for my sake? I wouldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

I think we have 3 basic positions.

1. Force people to get vaccinated. Legitimately drag them out and force it into their arm.
2. Encourage people to get vaccinated.
3. Let people do what they want.

Guessing on here that the vast majority are in position number 2 or 3. Nobody is in favor of 1.

For me encouragement would be to incentivize people. Maybe you get a tax break or some other financial reward. Fine by me.
If someone doesn't want to do it then fine, nothing can be done. Maybe keep asking. Maybe offer more in future.

Where I'd start drawing the line is when encouragement starts to transform into coercion and where I'd draw a firm line in the sand is when coercion starts to look like force.

There's you answer. It's an unsolvable problem. I wouldn't force anyone to inject something into their body if they didn't want to.

I understand the usual analogies. Drinking and driving. Seatbelts. All the rest.

At the end of the day if I am saying to someone "would you please allow this needle to be inserted into your arm so that the substance inside may be injected into you" and they say "no". Well that's that. I could try to convince them, sure. On the basis of some kind of reward.

To convince them under a threat? Losing their job? Losing their freedom? Nah, that's not for me.

That's about it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Sympathy? Yes, of course.

The conundrum is that I also believe strongly in the concept of consent and the idea that people should be fully autonomous with choosing what they do or do not put into their bodies.

It's an impasse.

Person X says to Person Y "please take this drug so I might live".
For me, while this is not too much to ask, it is certainly too much to demand.

I am not comfortable with the idea that we could or should circumvent consent by coercion. There has to be another solution and if there isn't then it's right back to square one.

How could I, if put in such a situation, demand that another person inject a substance into their body, possibly against their will for my sake? I wouldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

I think we have 3 basic positions.

1. Force people to get vaccinated. Legitimately drag them out and force it into their arm.
2. Encourage people to get vaccinated.
3. Let people do what they want.

Guessing on here that the vast majority are in position number 2 or 3. Nobody is in favor of 1.

For me encouragement would be to incentivize people. Maybe you get a tax break or some other financial reward. Fine by me.
If someone doesn't want to do it then fine, nothing can be done. Maybe keep asking. Maybe offer more in future.

Where I'd start drawing the line is when encouragement starts to transform into coercion and where I'd draw a firm line in the sand is when coercion starts to look like force.

There's you answer. It's an unsolvable problem. I wouldn't force anyone to inject something into their body if they didn't want to.

I understand the usual analogies. Drinking and driving. Seatbelts. All the rest.

At the end of the day if I am saying to someone "would you please allow this needle to be inserted into your arm so that the substance inside may be injected into you" and they say "no". Well that's that. I could try to convince them, sure. On the basis of some kind of reward.

To convince them under a threat? Losing their job? Losing their freedom? Nah, that's not for me.

That's about it.

That’s a long ass way to say you’re more worried about abstract freedoms than you are actual lives.

Of course no one should be forced… but what are we to make of people who refuse to take a safe vaccine to help those less fortunate than themselves?

You’ll forgive me if I have zero sympathy for those people. And you’ll do better to stop trying to take a moral high ground against me, because you’re actually standing on very loose sand, aren’t you?

Also… none of this sounds very Christian to me.

Help thy neighbour?

Fuck thy neighbour, because all I care about is myself and my beliefs, more like.

You describe it as an impasse.

Its an impasse created by selfish, ignorant children.

Unsolvable problem? Ridiculous.

 

[JumpMan1981]

That’s a long ass way to say you’re more worried about abstract freedoms than you are actual lives.

Of course no one should be forced… but what are we to make of people who refuse to take a safe vaccine to help those less fortunate than themselves?

You’ll forgive me if I have zero sympathy for those people. And you’ll do better to stop trying to take a moral high ground against me, because you’re actually standing on very loose sand, aren’t you?

Also… none of this sounds very Christian to me.

Help thy neighbour?

Fuck thy neighbour, because all I care about is myself and my beliefs, more like.

You describe it as an impasse.

Its an impasse created by selfish, ignorant children.

Unsolvable problem? Ridiculous.

Christian? LOL. I'm not religious at all.

There's nothing abstract about the freedom to not have a substance injected into your body.
That's actually pretty specific and clearly defined.
Would you inject this substance into your arm? "No." OK then.
Consent.

I don't even bother questioning the idea of sympathy for those who choose not to vaccinate and die as a result.
Of course I have sympathy for them but they made their choice and that is what it is.
Would it be better if they got vaccinated? Yes. Should we have the right to berate them into that? No.

If people were arguing that maybe people could be incentivized to vaccinate then I would be fine with that. Positive incentives though. I got vaccinated primarily for international travel. So not something that affects my livelihood or anything serious. An out and out privilege. That's entirely selfish but the incentive was there. Get the vaccine, get your QR code and enjoy your holidays. Sweet.

Doesn't matter how you try to break it down. It's fundamentally a question of consent and personal choice.
We are asking people to inject something into their body. If they don't want to then we need more positive incentivization.
If they still don't want to then that's the end of it. Trying to force them by whatever means is really not something I would personally be on board with.

If the idea is to say "hahaha these idiots are dying" and screech about "selfish ignorant children" in some impotent attempt to shame or guilt people into getting vaccinated then that's not really for me. You do you though.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Sympathy? Yes, of course.

The conundrum is that I also believe strongly in the concept of consent and the idea that people should be fully autonomous with choosing what they do or do not put into their bodies.

It's an impasse.

Person X says to Person Y "please take this drug so I might live".
For me, while this is not too much to ask, it is certainly too much to demand.

I am not comfortable with the idea that we could or should circumvent consent by coercion. There has to be another solution and if there isn't then it's right back to square one.

How could I, if put in such a situation, demand that another person inject a substance into their body, possibly against their will for my sake? I wouldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

I think we have 3 basic positions.

1. Force people to get vaccinated. Legitimately drag them out and force it into their arm.
2. Encourage people to get vaccinated.
3. Let people do what they want.

Unless what you want is your painful, non-covid affliction to be fixed. Then you will just have to accept waiting a few more months in pain until we run out of unvaccinated who need weeks of ventilator time and intensive care.

 

[JumpMan1981]

Unless what you want is your painful, non-covid affliction to be fixed. Then you will just have to accept waiting a few more months in pain until we run out of unvaccinated who need weeks of ventilator time and intensive care.

What can you do about that though?
Circumvent their bodily autonomy? Coerce them into "consenting" against their will?

There's no winning move there.

I see what you are saying. I am sick and I need medical attention but the beds are taken up by people refusing this injection.
So my only play is "force them somehow to get that injection or just refuse to treat them and treat me"?
I'm not comfortable with that.

There are a lot of uncomfortable and shitty moral dilemmas in this world. This is just another one.

I get it. We all wish we could just force these people to get vaccinated. We can't though. We shouldn't.

We're all just repeating ourselves at this point. So I don't think I would have anything else to add.

 

[FunkMiller]

screech about "selfish ignorant children" in some impotent attempt to shame or guilt people into getting vaccinated then that's not really for me. You do you though.

Sorry, but that's pathetic.

You just come across as defender of anti-vaxxers, which makes you sound like you are one yourself. Are you deepbreath under an alt?

These people should be guilted and shamed for acting selfishly, and not thinking about their fellow man. It's disgusting. There are thousands of poor fuckers whose lives are being ruined and threatened by idiots who won't just go and get a jab. But screw them because 'muh freedoms'.

Anyone with a brain, or anyone who cares about other people has gone and got the jab. We're left with the dregs now who haven't. Any anyone acting rationally should be disgusted with them.

 

[JumpMan1981]

You just come across as defender of anti-vaxxers, which makes you sound like you are one yourself. Are you deepbreath under an alt?

So we've sunk to this level now. Think that's the end of the conversation then.

 

[FunkMiller]

So we've sunk to this level now. Think that's the end of the conversation then.

’Sunk to this level’ translates to ‘I don’t want to talk about this anymore because I’m uncomfortable with what you’re saying about anti vaxxers’.

You clearly have more sympathy with their ‘plight’ than those they are deeply affecting. I’ll leave you do decide how that affects your conscience.

 

[JumpMan1981]

’Sunk to this level’ translates to ‘I don’t want to talk about this anymore because I’m uncomfortable with what you’re saying about anti vaxxers’.

You clearly have more sympathy with their ‘plight’ than those they are deeply affecting. I’ll leave you do decide how that affects your conscience.

No, I don't want to talk about this anymore because it's just the same points over and over with you cranking up the hyperbole and aggression each time round.

You know damn well people get permanently banned for being anti-vax so now that you can't win the argument you think you'll take a run at getting the other person banned? I am vaccinated. Not anti-vax at all. End of conversation.

Same point with implying that I am an alt. Can't handle the debate, let's see if you can get the other person banned? Transparent, petty, bullshit.

 

[FunkMiller]

No, I don't want to talk about this anymore because it's just the same points over and over with you cranking up the hyperbole and aggression each time round.

You know damn well people get permanently banned for being anti-vax so now that you can't win the argument you think you'll take a run at getting the other person banned? I am vaccinated. Not anti-vax at all. End of conversation.

Same point with implying that I am an alt. Can't handle the debate, let's see if you can get the other person banned? Transparent, petty, bullshit.

And you constantly avoid the actual point, because you know it paints you into a corner.

You spend your posts talking about how we can’t force anti vaxxers to get the shot, and how difficult you find it to think that they could be made to have one…

…while not caring one bit about the damage the anti vaxxers are doing to thousands of people, who are having their freedoms and rights destroyed because they have to keep shielding - directly because the anti vaxxers are acting the way they are.

I’m thoroughly sick of hearing about how bad things could be for anti vaxxers

 

[JumpMan1981]

And you constantly avoid the actual point, because you know it paints you into a corner.

You spend your posts talking about how we can’t force anti vaxxers to get the shot, and how difficult you find it to think that they could be made to have one…

…while not caring one bit about the damage the anti vaxxers are doing to thousands of people, who are having their freedoms and rights destroyed because they have to keep shielding - directly because the anti vaxxers are acting the way they are.

I’m thoroughly sick of hearing it.

I do care about the damage that anti-vaxxers can do though.
I've been consistent in the belief that they should get the vaccine.

There's an issue of consent and an issue of bodily autonomy.
I already said it's an impasse. I totally admit that it paints me into a corner.

Doesn't matter. I don't believe in trying to coerce people or trying to undermine their right to consent and to choose.

Trying to get me banned isn't going to change that.
We are just going over the same ground again and again now. It's a waste of both our time.

 

[Thaedolus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/28/christina-baker-kline-father-death-covid-quarantine/

The unvaccinated trample on our most vulnerable.

 

[Rentahamster]

Trying to get me banned isn't going to change that.

Paranoid much? No one's trying to get you banned. Drop the persecution complex, hyperbole, and strawman arguments, and you might actually be able to have a constructive conversation.

We are just going over the same ground again and again now. It's a waste of both our time.

One of the reasons the same ground is tread on over and over again is because you avoid answering questions, and you don't respond to specific points. When people offer you a rebuttal to something you said, you don't acknowledge it and just move on to something else.

But hey, if you never acknowledge any rebuttals that chip away at your beliefs, you won't have to change your mind about anything. You always retreat to the "I just believe in freedom that's about it" defense, which is a very general, nonspecific, philosophy which is a good thing in general, but absolutely useless in policy when specificity is needed. I and others have told you many times how we as a society might maximize freedom without compromising the health of that society, and you never offer up a cogent response that is useful other than slippery slope arguments and strawmen. For example, this post: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/covi...masks-of-fauci-edition.1608887/post-264625269

Still haven't answered it, and when you come to the end of a conversation you don't like, you end it with "well let's just agree to disagree" which is a platitude that people say usually when they don't like how a discussion is going because the facts don't support their beliefs and they don't want to face that.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Nurse Carefully Weighs Whether She Better Off Getting Vaccine Or Losing Job And Dying

UTICA, NY—Blasting state officials for putting her into such an “impossible position,” local nurse Sophia Wood confirmed Wednesday that she was carefully weighing whether she was better off getting the vaccine or losing her job and dying. “On the plus side, if get vaccinated, I could get to...

www.theonion.com

A nurse friend was telling me about the crying nurses getting laid off yesterday. And I want to feel bad for people who get mind fucked by misinformation, but a nurse? It's literally their job to understand medicine.

Like, if you believe cats are actually malevolent aliens that steal your thoughts and use them to power their spaceships, that's fine, but I am still not giving you a job at the animal shelter.

 

[Rentahamster]

That’s what I was thinking - how the fuck is everyone ok with 15 000 people dying in a week? How is that acceptable in any way?

It's pretty crazy. That's five 9/11 scale losses of life that are easily preventable. We threw the Constitution in the garbage to fight terrorism that killed 3,000 of us, yet whine like babies about freedom when facing a threat that killed 600,000+ of us.

 

[JumpMan1981]

Paranoid much? No one's trying to get you banned. Drop the persecution complex, hyperbole, and strawman arguments, and you might actually be able to have a constructive conversation.


One of the reasons the same ground is tread on over and over again is because you avoid answering questions, and you don't respond to specific points. When people offer you a rebuttal to something you said, you don't acknowledge it and just move on to something else.

But hey, if you never acknowledge any rebuttals that chip away at your beliefs, you won't have to change your mind about anything. You always retreat to the "I just believe in freedom that's about it" defense, which is a very general, nonspecific, philosophy which is a good thing in general, but absolutely useless in policy when specificity is needed. I and others have told you many times how we as a society might maximize freedom without compromising the health of that society, and you never offer up a cogent response that is useful other than slippery slope arguments and strawmen. For example, this post: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/covi...masks-of-fauci-edition.1608887/post-264625269

Still haven't answered it, and when you come to the end of a conversation you don't like, you end it with "well let's just agree to disagree" which is a platitude that people say usually when they don't like how a discussion is going because the facts don't support their beliefs and they don't want to face that.

Haha. Are you guys working in shifts?

Listen, I've pretty clearly set out my beliefs in the previous posts so everything you need to know is there. The fact that you honestly think that you are "chipping away" shows that you just don't understand.

I'm not going to, for example, change my mind and say "yes people who aren't vaccinated should lose their jobs". Not ever.

 

[Rentahamster]

Listen, I've pretty clearly set out my beliefs in the previous posts so everything you need to know is there. The fact that you honestly think that you are "chipping away" shows that you just don't understand.

Actually, I don't think I'm chipping away, if you read what I wrote, because in order to do that you'd have to acknowledge and respond to any points that I make instead of ignoring them and deflecting.

I'm not going to, for example, change my mind and say "yes people who aren't vaccinated should lose their jobs". Not ever.

"People who are a demonstrable public health hazard to themselves and to others should not be allowed to endanger their coworkers and thus should be separated. Non-compliance with this work safety issue is reasonable grounds for termination".

Do you agree with this yes or no? If yes why, if no why, and give reasons.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I like how all of liberals these days are red pilling themselves into thinking that all of these poor uneducated people should just fuck off and die. This bodes well for when this is over, there should be less people asking me to pay more taxes to support the druggies and homeless people.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I like how all of liberals these days are red pilling themselves into thinking that all of these poor uneducated people should just fuck off and die. This bodes well for when this is over, there should be less people asking me to pay more taxes to support the druggies and homeless people.

Yeah that's why us liberals are trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Because we want them all to "fuck off and die".


Flawless logic there.

 

[12Goblins]

I like how all of liberals these days are red pilling themselves into thinking that all of these poor uneducated people should just fuck off and die. This bodes well for when this is over, there should be less people asking me to pay more taxes to support the druggies and homeless people.

nobody wants it to be like this... also let's not forget who are the ones making a mockery of the pandemic...

 

[Hari Seldon]

Yeah that's why us liberals are trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Because we want them all to "fuck off and die".


Flawless logic there.

I read about some subreddit that was basically glorifying unnvacinated people dying and it was disgusting and triggered me. If we are going down the road of having zero empathy for other human beings then why bother with any social programs at all?