Support NeoGAF

[Raven117]

Why do you keep telling others how they feel and what their motivations are? You sound like a conspiracy theorist - you exhibit the common traits (paranoia, arbitrarily ascribing motivations onto others where none exist in order to reinforce your delusions, etc).

This comic was made in the 1930's. It's still, sadly, apt today and for this conversation:

Edit: BTW, it's telling that you made it political where none existed. It reveals what's behind your motivations

It is political. Its people like you that are hiding behind "virtue" saying "oh, but its in the public safety" when really, its political. You are being naïve to say otherwise. Yes, I do, because deep down, you know I'm right. I know you wont admit it nor will anyone, but its not about "saving people." I sincerely doubt you care about saving some toothless redneck in Mississippi. You just want them to do what they are told by authorities you agree with.

I'm all for vaccinations. I've said it multiple times. Its when folks like you start talking about "mandating" and "door to door" and all that is when it becomes highly suspect.

What those people do are not your problem. You just want them to capitulate to what you deem as in their best interest. That...that is political.

 

[SF Kosmo]

It is political. Its people like you that are hiding behind "virtue" saying "oh, but its in the public safety" when really, its political. You are being naïve to say otherwise. Yes, I do, because deep down, you know I'm right. I know you wont admit it nor will anyone, but its not about "saving people." I sincerely doubt you care about saving some toothless redneck in Mississippi. You just want them to do what they are told by authorities you agree with.

Toothless rednecks aren't the only victims of misinformation. You are the one really painting this as a monolithic issue.

My mom won't get the vaccine because she thinks she can cure Corona with Quinoa because she spends all day on GETTR or whatever the misinformation cesspit is today. That shit is harmful to people.

 

[DeepBreath87]

This is about the public health and safety of everyone; a person who base jumps doesn't take off the parachute, walk around downtown, and cause others to spontaneously base jump as well.

Public health? What is about public health? The vaccines almost guarantee that a person who gets covid won’t need to go to the hospital. That’s no enough for you? The people who choose not to get the vaccines, for whatever reason, will reap whatever consequences follow from that. Those who choose to vaccinate will get, at worst, a disease that mirrors the flu (mild Covid). Most vaccinated people won’t be infected or have symptoms at all.

If that’s not good enough for you, then you’re the one being selfish by demanding other people do things that have little to no impact on you personally. Two things can be true at once. Many of the people choosing not to vaccinate would be better off if they did. And you’re still an authoritarian asshole if you think we should force medicine into people who don’t want it.

 

[terintamel]

So if the above information is accurrate then a vaccinated senior is still at more risk then people under the age of 64 on average. If that level of protection is good enough for the 75+ age group why then is it unacceptable for those under 65 and especially for those under the age of 18?

We already know that the vaccinated can still get and spread Covid so really shouldn't we really be focused on hospitalization and death instead of cases?

Some questions.

How long is protection of natural immunity (had covid) vs vaccination? I think scientists have some guesses but no one really knows.
Is natural immunity worse than all the existing vaccines or for example is better the J&J but worse than Moderna?
Can the virus mutate in a vaccinated person? My guess is the virus can mutate if it infects anyone vaccinated or not so I don't think the "get vaccinated to stop new mutations" is not a valid reason.
On the average how much does the vaccine reduces my chances of serious illness or death? Helpful for me to know the risk vs benefit.
Outside of the vaccinated person who does the vaccine protect? Do we have any numbers of how many people cannot be vaccinated for valid reasons? How many people are we protecting?

What it seems to me is that if I understand this, is that even if I already had Covid I should still get vaccinated, because we don't know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don't know how long vaccine induced immunity lasts. And I should get the vaccine to keep a vaccinated person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the vaccine, I can give it to the vaccinated person anyways. And, the other vaccinated person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die? Also the vaccine does not prevent possible virus mutations if you catch Covid while vaccinated? Did I get all this right?

 

[Halo is Back]

I haven't worn a mask in 2 weeks. Feels good man

 

[Raven117]

Toothless rednecks aren't the only victims of misinformation. You are the one really painting this as a monolithic issue.

My mom won't get the vaccine because she thinks she can cure Corona with Quinoa because she spends all day on GETTR or whatever the misinformation cesspit is today. That shit is harmful to people.

I was being facetious.

You know I'm not advocating for misinformation at all. You know I'm FOR vaccines. I'm also FOR people making their own decisions about it.

 

[FunkMiller]

It is political. Its people like you that are hiding behind "virtue" saying "oh, but its in the public safety" when really, its political. You are being naïve to say otherwise. Yes, I do, because deep down, you know I'm right. I know you wont admit it nor will anyone, but its not about "saving people." I sincerely doubt you care about saving some toothless redneck in Mississippi. You just want them to do what they are told by authorities you agree with.

I'm all for vaccinations. I've said it multiple times. Its when folks like you start talking about "mandating" and "door to door" and all that is when it becomes highly suspect.

What those people do are not your problem. You just want them to capitulate to what you deem as in their best interest. That...that is political.

And there is where your delusion resides. Probably due to you being American, and part of an absolutely dreadful political system.

Whether you want to believe it or not, people are getting vaccinated purely to help themselves, their loved ones, and the vulnerable members of our community.

And you know what? It feels like a great thing to do. Everyone I know has felt a mixture personal relief, and not a little civic pride in getting their jabs.

How bitter do you really have to be, to think that politics have anything to do with people’s motivations on this? Is it so hard for you to accept that no one has these ulterior motives you want to ascribe them?

Again: is this an American thing? Because it sure as shit ain’t the case here.

 

[Raven117]

And there is where your delusion resides. Probably due to you being American, and part of an absolutely dreadful political system.

Whether you want to believe it or not, people are getting vaccinated purely to help themselves, their loved ones, and the vulnerable members of our community.

And you know what? It feels like a great thing to do. Everyone I know has felt a mixture personal relief, and not a little civic pride in getting their jabs.

How bitter do you really have to be, to think that politics have anything to do with people’s motivations?

Again: is this an American thing? Because it sure as shit ain’t the case here.

You are missing my point. You realize I am vaccinated. I did it he help myself, my loved ones, and vulnerable members of my community. That is not what I am saying.

I am saying you can't FORCE someone to do it.

When people start talking FORCING people to take it...that's when it becomes political. That's when I start questioning motivations.

 

[FunkMiller]

You are missing my point. You realize I am vaccinated. I did it he help myself, my loved ones, and vulnerable members of my community. That is not what I am saying.

I am saying you can't FORCE someone to do it.

When people start talking FORCING people to take it...that's when it becomes political. That's when I start questioning motivations.

Who’s suggesting people should be forced?

 

[ItsGreat]

I haven't worn a mask in 2 weeks. Feels good man

I was being facetious.

You know I'm not advocating for misinformation at all. You know I'm FOR vaccines. I'm also FOR people making their own decisions about it.

There are things to be done beyond the individual to create a safe society. Vaccines are one of them.

Wearing a mask in the shops is another.

 

[Pol Pot]

Who’s suggesting people should be forced?

No one with the power to implement it.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I was being facetious.

You know I'm not advocating for misinformation at all. You know I'm FOR vaccines. I'm also FOR people making their own decisions about it.

I'm for people making their own decisions but I am also for reaching out and addressing the reasons people are foregoing the vaccine because they're almost universally predicated on misinformation or a lack of information.

 

[Raven117]

There are things to be done beyond the individual to create a safe society. Vaccines are one of them.

Wearing a mask in the shops is another.

Said everyone who ever became a tyrant. There is a line to be drawn in creating a "safe" society, too often people draw that line a little too quickly to get people to do what they want "in the name of safety."

Do recall, I was very specific when I said "at this point."

I'm for people making their own decisions but I am also for reaching out and addressing the reasons people are foregoing the vaccine because they're almost universally predicated on misinformation or a lack of information.

100% agreement.

 

[Halo is Back]

There are things to be done beyond the individual to create a safe society. Vaccines are one of them.

Wearing a mask in the shops is another.

I'm already vaccinated. The CDC has given me the green light to do so. So fuck off.

 

[Taxexemption]

I'm for people making their own decisions but I am also for reaching out and addressing the reasons people are foregoing the vaccine because they're almost universally predicated on misinformation or a lack of information.

It's more about mistrust. I don't trust the government to provide accurate information. I also view people like you as having a kind of religious zeal. I feel similarly to this topic as I do when Mormons knock on my door.

"Sirs, do you have a moment to talk about vaccines? You don't? You are going to kill grandma!"

 

[vpance]

Natural immunity from recovery post infection showing significantly greater protection than vaccines on Delta, shows Israeli data. Guess this was where Pfizer's call for boosters was coming from.

 

[Birdo]

They should make it easier for people to test for natural antibodies.

I'd be curious to test myself, since I had a bad flu-like illness last year, during lockdown.

 

[12Goblins]

It's more about mistrust. I don't trust the government to provide accurate information. I also view people like you as having a kind of religious zeal. I feel similarly to this topic as I do when Mormons knock on my door.

"Sirs, do you have a moment to talk about vaccines? You don't? You are going to kill grandma!"

but folks with this logic trust trump to provide them with accurate information, it's absolute nonsense

 

[Taxexemption]

but folks with this logic trust trump to provide them with accurate information, it's absolute nonsense

I no longer trust Trump. I don't have a light switch brain. Just cause I now think Trump was a grifter, that doesn't make me suddenly trust the democrats or Fauci. I live in California, the horrors I see on my way to work are a daily reminder that democrats when elected will use public office to enrich themselves while pretending to do stuff about problems that are only getting worse like the homeless situation.


You can't have a deeply dysfunctional government and society and expect me to respect it's leaders and institutions. Also Fauci should have been fired when it was revealed that he lied. Who is he now? I will only ever think of him as a paid liar. You don't get to lie to me for my own good. The second I know you've done that I will assume you are always lying.

 

[12Goblins]

Lord help me ಠ‿ಠ

 

[vpance]

So if the above information is accurrate then a vaccinated senior is still at more risk then people under the age of 64 on average. If that level of protection is good enough for the 75+ age group why then is it unacceptable for those under 65 and especially for those under the age of 18?

We already know that the vaccinated can still get and spread Covid so really shouldn't we really be focused on hospitalization and death instead of cases?

Because they want people vaccinated regardless of any reason. Diminishing returns is not a consideration. It's simply more convenient say that everyone should get it. The number of hospitalizations and deaths were used to justify fast tracking vaccines, so no there won't be a focus on those. Future efforts will be focused on making boosters.

That's a nice table to visualize what your chances are though. Everyone is their own walking formula of risk according to your age, weight and several significant health factors.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I live in California

I'm sorry. I've been bred with a deep mistrust of Californians migrating north and spreading that crap. Could just be my idiot brain tribalism talking but they're a different breed to the northwesterner and they also drive like shit!

 

[Chaplain]

 

[TheDreadBaron]

They should make some kind of Ministry of Truth to take care of these matters.

(I know some fact checkers that would be perfect for the job)

 

[Taxexemption]

I'm sorry. I've been bred with a deep mistrust of Californians migrating north and spreading that crap. Could just be my idiot brain tribalism talking but they're a different breed to the northwesterner and they also drive like shit!

We definitely drive terribly. It gets worse the bigger the city the driver lives in. LA and San Francisco drivers are the absolute worst.

 

[BadBurger]

It is political. Its people like you that are hiding behind "virtue" saying "oh, but its in the public safety" when really, its political. You are being naïve to say otherwise. Yes, I do, because deep down, you know I'm right. I know you wont admit it nor will anyone, but its not about "saving people." I sincerely doubt you care about saving some toothless redneck in Mississippi. You just want them to do what they are told by authorities you agree with.

I'm all for vaccinations. I've said it multiple times. Its when folks like you start talking about "mandating" and "door to door" and all that is when it becomes highly suspect.

What those people do are not your problem. You just want them to capitulate to what you deem as in their best interest. That...that is political.

It's political for you, not for informed, normal people. For the rest of us that static never enters into the equation, we want it to end and for people to stop getting sick and/or dying.

Government going door to door to provide or gather information is sinister? Wait until you find out about something called the US Census Bureau or the United States Postal Service.

Look, it's clear neither I nor anyone else can provoke you to become informed, to stop projecting upon others and demonizing those that you disagree with, or politicizing vaccines and other responses to the pandemic. So I'm just going to leave you to it.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

We definitely drive terribly. It gets worse the bigger the city the driver lives in. LA and San Francisco drivers are the absolute worst.

Yeah to be fair I came from Seattle, it's as bad as anywhere else for crappy drivers and crappy policies.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's a hell of an admission and certainly seems like it would open up Facebook and the government to litigation regarding First Amendment freedom of speech rights if they are actively collaborating on censorship.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

That's a hell of an admission and certainly seems like it would open up Facebook and the government to litigation regarding First Amendment freedom of speech rights if they are actively collaborating on censorship.

Remember when the ACLU defended nazis out of the pure principle? This is the kind of thing they should exist for.

 

[SF Kosmo]

It's more about mistrust. I don't trust the government to provide accurate information. I also view people like you as having a kind of religious zeal. I feel similarly to this topic as I do when Mormons knock on my door.

"Sirs, do you have a moment to talk about vaccines? You don't? You are going to kill grandma!"

And I view people like you as being primarily motivated by opposition to people like me rather than a firm belief in any particular facts.

I get not trusting the government, but at this point you don't really have to. With half the country vaccinated it's plainly evident that the vaccines are safe and that they work. Every bit of data from every source suggest this, and it's not a prediction, it's just the facts of what happened.

It's kind of hard to argue that point now that it's after the fact and I haven't seen many try. They just dig in to "pwn the libs" or whatever. Silly at this stage.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Remember when the ACLU defended nazis out of the pure principle? This is the kind of thing they should exist for.

I mean, it was already a pretty gray area for Facebook and such to admit that they followed government guidelines when deciding what content to take down, but to now admit that the government is actively flagging posts for censorship? That's some crazy shit. I mean, we heard rumors and suspected it was happening, but I didn't expect to hear the press secretary openly admit to it in a somewhat boasting manner.

I'm assuming none of the mainstream media will have an issue with this unprecedented behavior.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Natural immunity from recovery post infection showing significantly greater protection than vaccines on Delta, shows Israeli data. Guess this was where Pfizer's call for boosters was coming from.

The problem is that it's uneven. They think people who had mild or asymptomatic cases may have weaker immunity compared to those who had severe cases. Similar to how only one vaccination dose isn't as strong.

So it's probably not responsible to tell people that if they got it they're fine even if many are.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

You do know Denzel is the bad guy, right?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And I view people like you as being primarily motivated by opposition to people like me rather than a firm belief in any particular facts.

I get not trusting the government, but at this point you don't really have to. With half the country vaccinated it's plainly evident that the vaccines are safe and that they work. Every bit of data from every source suggest this, and it's not a prediction, it's just the facts of what happened.

It's kind of hard to argue that point now that it's after the fact and I haven't seen many try. They just dig in to "pwn the libs" or whatever. Silly at this stage.

What does "work" mean to you? I fully believe that people who are at high risk of hospitalization and death to COVID should consider getting vaccinated, but what about those who are younger and healthy and have like a 0.02% chance of hospitalization and 0.0009% (using the Oxford Calculator) absolute risk of death to the virus? Why should they be obligated to cut their already minuscule risk in half or even to one quarter?

What is the absolute risk factor that is acceptable? Seems like defining what that is, and prioritizing vaccination availability for people who are above the threshold around the world would be in our best interests rather than trying to vaccinate everyone right down to children.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The problem is that it's uneven. They think people who had mild or asymptomatic cases may have weaker immunity compared to those who had severe cases. Similar to how only one vaccination dose isn't as strong.

So it's probably not responsible to tell people that if they got it they're fine even if many are.

According to this line of thinking, you can never be too safe, even if you recovered from an infection and had three doses of the vaccine. You never know!!!

 

[ManaByte]

Based on the absolute bullshit anti-fax shit people are spreading as fact in that cesspool...

 

[xrnzaaas]

They should make it easier for people to test for natural antibodies.

I'd be curious to test myself, since I had a bad flu-like illness last year, during lockdown.

In my opinion a lot more should be done in preparation for establishing if someone qualifies for a vaccination - checking for antibodies, performing a standard blood test, maybe looking into their medical history to see if they're likely to have a strong negative reaction (some people haven't vaccinated since their youngest years and they may not know or remember about potential dangers). But no, in my country it's asking a few simple questions and step right up.

 

[Taxexemption]

And I view people like you as being primarily motivated by opposition to people like me rather than a firm belief in any particular facts.

I get not trusting the government, but at this point you don't really have to. With half the country vaccinated it's plainly evident that the vaccines are safe and that they work. Every bit of data from every source suggest this, and it's not a prediction, it's just the facts of what happened.

It's kind of hard to argue that point now that it's after the fact and I haven't seen many try. They just dig in to "pwn the libs" or whatever. Silly at this stage.

There are many experts disputing the safety of the mrna vaccines in particular. You have youtube, big pharma, reddit and the government at your back to censor or otherwise pressure those that report symptoms or write papers critical of the vaccines.


What do you think of Brett Weinstein's podcast with Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone?

 

[SF Kosmo]

What does "work" mean to you? I fully believe that people who are at high risk of hospitalization and death to COVID should consider getting vaccinated, but what about those who are younger and healthy and have like a 0.02% chance of hospitalization and 0.0009% (using the Oxford Calculator) absolute risk of death to the virus? Why should they be obligated to cut their already minuscule risk in half or even to one quarter?

What is the absolute risk factor that is acceptable? Seems like defining what that is, and prioritizing vaccination availability for people who are above the threshold around the world would be in our best interests rather than trying to vaccinate everyone right down to children.

I think kids are not at risk or much risk to others so they don't need the vaccine (but should be allowed or encouraged if it's approved, of course).

Over 20 though? Yeah you're still a major vector, still at risk of hospitalization, at risk of severe illness.

I mean shit, you've probably been vaccinated for like, whooping cough and all of that, right? Chicken pox? I mean these are not super deadly diseases but you still don't want them.

 

[Taxexemption]

I think kids are not at risk or much risk to others so they don't need the vaccine (but should be allowed or encouraged if it's approved, of course).

Over 20 though? Yeah you're still a major vector, still at risk of hospitalization, at risk of severe illness.

I mean shit, you've probably been vaccinated for like, whooping cough and all of that, right? Chicken pox? I mean these are not super deadly diseases but you still don't want them.

Can you still get and spread covid 19 after being vaccinated?

 

[Shai-Tan]

There are many experts disputing the safety of the mrna vaccines in particular. You have youtube, big pharma, reddit and the government at your back to censor or otherwise pressure those that report symptoms or write papers critical of the vaccines.


What do you think of Brett Weinstein's podcast with Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone?

The problem is they’re not making good arguments. Theres always fringe people who think they know what they’re talking about. Typically you just don’t hear about them because few people are interested in science for its own sake. It’s not easy for a lay person or non expert to determine credibility on content alone and it’s going to be a very error prone process if you don’t look into details about why their positions are fringe/considered wrong (there are a variety of other heuristics)

anyhow, on that specific content, if you want it spelled out the past guest of Bret‘s podcast who called him out went into detail here (the title is a bad joke referring to the Joe Rogan episode Bret was on):

 

[Raven117]

There are things to be done beyond the individual to create a safe society. Vaccines are one of them.

Wearing a mask in the shops is another.

Said everyone who ever became a tyrant. There is a line to be drawn in creating a "safe" society, too often people draw that line a little too quickly to get people to do what they want "in the name of safety."

It's political for you, not for informed, normal people. For the rest of us that static never enters into the equation, we want it to end and for people to stop getting sick and/or dying.

Government going door to door to provide or gather information is sinister? Wait until you find out about something called the US Census Bureau or the United States Postal Service.

Look, it's clear neither I nor anyone else can provoke you to become informed, to stop projecting upon others and demonizing those that you disagree with, or politicizing vaccines and other responses to the pandemic. So I'm just going to leave you to it.

LOL, what an absolutely great choice of movie. The whole time, Denzel was saying he was virtuous (that he was the good guy) until the end when he was the bad guy. I could not agree more with that picture.

Yes, it actually does, and you are hiding behind it. You are deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying so you can make points into the sky.

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that I support vaccinations. That said, I support people to make their own decisions about getting vaccinated. Just read my posts with SF Cosmo. We are in 100% Agreement about information for the vaccines, but not quite on board with it being mandatory.

Anybody....ANYBODY who is insisting on mandatory vaccinations, purging SMS texts, are absolutely 100% bad guys...and are getting dangerously close to Nazi/Communist/Totatarism regimes.

I'm sorry free choice bothers you. I'm sorry that you can't impose your will on people. I'm sorry you can't make choices for other people. Thankfully, its not happening in this country (yet), but it must be closely observed. It is clear you are very young and think all of this is simply a game. And the naivety that its just about "Saving lives" (as the government literally limits your speech on SMS texting).

Like this. Literally limiting Free Speech. Does this make you happy? Is this what you want? Not for me. No way. And then you turn around and say this isn't political. What a joke.

 

[SF Kosmo]

There are many experts disputing the safety of the mrna vaccines in particular. You have youtube, big pharma, reddit and the government at your back to censor or otherwise pressure those that report symptoms or write papers critical of the vaccines.

Mostly grifters by my estimation.

Be aware, there a long and storied history going back to the beginnings of the anti-vax movement of people making up shit for profit.

Look into Andrew Wakefield sometime. Not only was his study linking vaccines and autism garbage, with only 12 children included, but he forged the results even for those kids, and the whole thing was bankrolled (almost a half million) by a lawyer who asked him to come up with a paper saying it only had to be "good enough for a jury" so he could file a class action lawsuits (to say nothing of his conflicts of interest trying to patent an "alternative" vaccine with a man who claimed he could cure autism with a medicine made of his own bone marrow). I wish I was making this shit up.

I know there's a bit of a Streisand effect that happens when the censor some of these people but it doesn't mean they're telling the truth. You should remember to apply your skepticism broadly or the whole effort is useless.

Mass vaccine deaths would be a pretty hard thing to cover up if it were real.

What do you think of Brett Weinstein's podcast with Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone?

Weinstein has said some pretty dumb and dodgy shit so I don't give him much notice. He's the latest trying to pretend Ivermectin can actually control the pandemic without vaccination, which is frankly just a fantasy even if it does turn out to be somewhat effective (and more data is suggesting it's really not anyway)

 

[SF Kosmo]

Can you still get and spread covid 19 after being vaccinated?

As an individual, yes, but a vaccinated population will not infect each other at a high enough rate to sustain the virus. That's the goal. Collectively vaccines are much more powerful than individually.

 

[Taxexemption]

As an individual, yes, but a vaccinated population will not infect each other at a high enough rate to sustain the virus.

For as long as they were saying covid lives on surfaces for days, I'm highly suspect of this claim. Do you have a peer reviewed study?


If you pay attention to the news, at every turn the news we were getting is contradicted by later news. Masks were unsafe, then they were safe, then you needed two masks. You can't load me up with fake and false news and then be like "but this time I'm super cereal."

 

[SF Kosmo]

For as long as they were saying covid lives on surfaces for days, I'm highly suspect of this claim. Do you have a peer reviewed study?

Yes, there are many, but even better than that, just look at populations with high levels of vaccination. They don't simply see Covid levels drop to 10% of what they were per the 90% protection, they see the infection rate drop precipitously to near zero.

In the US, virtually all new infections are among the unvaccinated. If we got 95% of the world vaccinated, Covid would likely be extinct in a few years.

If you pay attention to the news, at every turn the news we were getting is contradicted by later news. Masks were unsafe, then they were safe, then you needed two masks. You can't load me up with fake and false news and then be like "but this time I'm super cereal."

People can be wrong about what will happen, but that doesn't mean you can ignore what is happening or what has already happened. I hope you appreciate that distinction.

 

[Taxexemption]

Yes, there are many, but even better than that, just look at populations with high levels of vaccination. They don't simply see Covid levels drop to 10% of what they were per the 90% protection, they see the infection rate drop precipitously to near zero.

In the US, virtually all new infections are among the unvaccinated. If we got 95% of the world vaccinated, Covid would likely be extinct in a few years.


People can be wrong about what will happen, but that doesn't mean you can ignore what is happening or what has already happened. I hope you appreciate that distinction.

Fauci lied. Why wouldn't he and big pharma lie about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine? Why do the vaccine manufacturers get legal protections against lawsuits for damage done by the vaccine?

 

[QSD]

Said everyone who ever became a tyrant. There is a line to be drawn in creating a "safe" society, too often people draw that line a little too quickly to get people to do what they want "in the name of safety."


LOL, what an absolutely great choice of movie. The whole time, Denzel was saying he was virtuous (that he was the good guy) until the end when he was the bad guy. I could not agree more with that picture.

Yes, it actually does, and you are hiding behind it. You are deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying so you can make points into the sky.

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that I support vaccinations. That said, I support people to make their own decisions about getting vaccinated. Just read my posts with SF Cosmo. We are in 100% Agreement about information for the vaccines, but not quite on board with it being mandatory.

Anybody....ANYBODY who is insisting on mandatory vaccinations, purging SMS texts, are absolutely 100% bad guys...and are getting dangerously close to Nazi/Communist/Totatarism regimes.

I'm sorry free choice bothers you. I'm sorry that you can't impose your will on people. I'm sorry you can't make choices for other people. Thankfully, its not happening in this country (yet), but it must be closely observed. It is clear you are very young and think all of this is simply a game. And the naivety that its just about "Saving lives" (as the government literally limits your speech on SMS texting).

Like this. Literally limiting Free Speech. Does this make you happy? Is this what you want? Not for me. No way. And then you turn around and say this isn't political. What a joke.

I'd say that a more charitable reading of the argument "it's not political" is that it isn't political issue in the US sense of an issue that falls neatly into republican/democrat camps. I think you will find people of different political leanings on all sides of the vaccine issue. I think of myself as moderately left wing but find myself aligning more with you and @Zefah, TheDreadBaron etc etc on this issue because I feel an intuitive revulsion to pushing medical treatments on people and am (like you) not very trusting when it comes to the information we're getting out of government and (especially) big pharma.

 

[QSD]

Tangentially related but the The Weinsteins vs The World saga continues, today on bloggingheads we ponder the question "Is Eric Weinstein a crackpot?"

 

[ManaByte]

CA is next...