ManaByte
Gold Member
It's basically instructing them to change how they test and use different tests so they can tell the difference between COVID and the flu, proving that all of the flu cases last year were detected as COVID.
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It's basically instructing them to change how they test and use different tests so they can tell the difference between COVID and the flu, proving that all of the flu cases last year were detected as COVID.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Wait, COVID suddenly more transmissible than smallpox? A disease that was so contagious that a male nurse in Germany opened the door to an "infected" hallway for 15 seconds to tell a hazmat suited doctor something and died of smallpox shortly there after? Where a man infected with small pox was smoking in his room, and blowing said smoke out the window, and infected multiple people on the floor above him who had their windows open? (This all happened before smallpox was eradicated btw, I read a book about it)
CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated
The CDC data published Friday was based on 469 cases of Covid associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in July in Massachusetts.www.cnbc.com
This seems off. If Delta is as infectious as smallpox then you need to be 30 feet away, and behind solid metal or concrete for social distancing. How is the UK not burning to the ground right now if Delta is this bad?
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EverythingsOverrated
Member
Yeah, I honestly thought it was a typo.
"Delta, now in at least 132 countries and already the dominant form of the disease in the United States, is more transmissible than the common cold, the 1918 Spanish flu, smallpox, Ebola, MERS and SARS, according to the document. Only measles appears to spread faster than the variant."
We'll have to wait for more data to really know
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Aren't MERS and Ebola less transmissable than many diseases? I may be totally wrong, but I thought they were much more lethal, but less transmissable.I fucking hate the media.
This is the picture they use for this story about 469 cases.
They're evil. Incompetent and evil.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Yes, which is why we haven't been wiped out by Ebola yet. Ebola has a high transmission rate in health care settings (touch body/fluid) but it is not airborne like respiratory illnesses.
Not to downplay COVID but the media is loving that smallpox and ebola were in that document, two diseases that most people know are horrible. Fear Porn Intensifies.
BTW, the transmission rate of smallpox is 0 as of 2021 so maybe that is the justification. I just think it is in bad taste to compare Covid with a diseases that has killed billions.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
I thought I read about this over a month ago? Maybe I'm misremembering.
In other news, Twitter suspended Alex Berenson again for this completely factual tweet quoting Pfizer's own study. What a world we live in.
t”was that the test of people already dying of covid?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Disney requiring U.S. employees to get vaccinated against COVID-19
The Walt Disney Company has joined other large companies in requiring employees to get vaccinated against COVID-19. The company said in a statement Friday that it will be requiring all salaried and…
ktla.com
Alex is making the claim that the trial shows the vaccine does not reduce the risk of death. That's an incorrect assumption, for the reasons I mentioned before. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.I thought I read about this over a month ago? Maybe I'm misremembering.
In other news, Twitter suspended Alex Berenson again for this completely factual tweet quoting Pfizer's own study. What a world we live in.
(Though we do have real-world data showing the vaccine reducing the risk of death)
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's fair, but it's still worth pointing out that the trial which is the basis for its emergency use authorization in this country does not show any prevention of death after 6 months. That's crazy to me, but I'm sure plenty of people have no issue with it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
CDC director tells Bret Baier government 'looking into' potential COVID-19 vaccine mandate
CDC Director Rochelle Walensky was pressed Friday on "Special Report" as to whether she supports or foresees a federal vaccine mandate, as the Biden administration publicly laments continued vaccine hesitancy in parts of the country.
www.foxnews.com
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
You seriously think that this is what they are saying? It's sad how deluded some people are.
ManaByte
Gold Member
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That can differentiate strains of influenza from other strains of influenza.
It's a PCR test, of course it can differentiate influenza from COVID.
Like I said, you have to be actively deluding yourself to not get this. We have really reached Kraken levels of delusion at this point.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
This does not mean that the test is "bullshit". The CDC is now introducing a test that can detect C19, influenza and other respiratory viruses at the same time. This is a multiplex test - it can reverse transcribe multiple RNA targets and thus identify multiple viruses with a single test. Previous multiplex tests could detect various respiratory viruses, but not C19 so multiple tests needed to be run. Now we can do both at once, and the CDC is recommending a switch over to save resources.
Uh, no. Where are you getting that from?
The influenza test PCR test is a completely different test that is run separately from the COVID19 test (until now). If the C19 pcr test was erroneously picking up flu cases, we would see a bunch of people being diagnosed with both C19 and the flu. Instead we got no one diagnosed with the flu and a bunch of people diagnosed with C19.
Manabyte:
You're misunderstanding what that means. Currently, the COVID19 PCR test can only detect COVID19. A second test is required to detect other viruses. When I request a viral nasopharyngeal swab, I get two results back (actually, I would get three but I think thats just a local lab quirk here). One is a COVID 19 test result. The other is a multiplex PCR test result that shows about 50 different respiratory viruses and bacteria. The CDC is now encouraging labs to switch over to detection methods that can diagnose both COVID19 and other respiratory bugs in the same test to save resources. The previous test would not pick up cases of influenza as COVID19. The test result would just come back as negative, unless a multiplex test that could detect influenza was run concurrently.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks. Yeah, that matches my understanding based on an explanation about PCR tests I read a long time ago, so good to have it cleared up.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I have no problem with it at all, because you don't allow people to die just to provide proof to people on Twitter.
Hulk_Smash
Banned
And it’s equally EQUALLY okay for people to not shop there and tell others not to shop there. Shit like that just reinforces why I will never get one.There's a hashtag on UK Twitter right now: #BoycottCosta. It's because a branch of Costa Coffee has refused entry to unvaccinated people.
Look, you absolute cloth heads, it's okay for you to refuse to have the vaccine - that's your choice in a free society. It's equally okay in a free society for a Costa Coffee franchise to bar you entry to their premises if they think you may pose a risk to other customers.
Anti-vaxxers: whiny little snowflake hypocrites
Fuck any person or any business that forces me to get that fucking vaccine or tries to limit my interaction with them. Fuck em.
Raven117
Gold Member
I guess that is why Pfiser was saying folks needed another jab….
I’m mentally preparing for another lockdown. That’s where the powers that he want this all to go. It’s in the ether.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I do not think anyone is asking for that.
Lionel Richie
Member
If you get another lockdown you got no one to blame but the morons who won't get vaccinated out of principle.
MisterFalcon
Member
No, this is people dying from all causes.
(vaccine/placebo)
Deaths 15 14
Acute respiratory failure 0 1
Aortic rupture 0 1
Arteriosclerosis 2 0
Biliary cancer metastatic 0 1
COVID-19 0 2
COVID-19 pneumonia 1 0
Cardiac arrest 4 1
Cardiac failure congestive 1 0
Cardiorespiratory arrest 1 1
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 1 0
Death 0 1
Dementia 0 1
Emphysematous cholecystitis 1 0
Hemorrhagic stroke 0 1
Hypertensive heart disease 1 0
Lung cancer metastatic 1 0
Metastases to liver 0 1
Missing 0 1
Multiple organ dysfunction syndrome 0 2
Myocardial infarction 0 2
Overdose 0 1
Pneumonia 0 2
Sepsis 1 0
Septic shock 1 0
Shigella sepsis 1 0
Unevaluable event 1 0
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Regarding Americans that were vaccinated angry at what is happening - this will happen in every country in Europe soon.
All that talk about ‘educating’ people who refuse is just hiding the fact that government knows very well they will not get the vaccine - no amount of information is ever enough for someone that thinks of himself or herself as an expert due to Internet.
All that talk about ‘educating’ people who refuse is just hiding the fact that government knows very well they will not get the vaccine - no amount of information is ever enough for someone that thinks of himself or herself as an expert due to Internet.
Cyberpunkd
Member
No, fuck you. They have a right to choose not to interact with you if you are unvaccinated, you cannot force them to do so.
Smoke6
Member
So you’re saying that the people who haven’t gotten vaccinate due to their beliefs thst not enough info has come out about this vaccine upsets you?
like there are no known side effects given before hand as you would get for anything else! Like why are people labeling them “anti-vaxxers” when a majority of them are and have been vaccinated prior to covid for everything they needed to be vaccinated for except covid?
like what info do you have that’s directly from someone who’s working on the vaccine thst didn’t come from the internet or TV?
like this reminds me of the first season of the walking dead. Like everyone thought that there was something going around and you had to have been bitten in order to turn into the walking dead only to find out whatever was causing this was in EVERYONE!!!
Cyberpunkd
Member
It doesn’t bother me the slightest, you have a right to live your life. Once again - going to cinema or a restaurant is not a right. Stay home if you want.
It will take at least another year for human kind to understand that we need to make changes .. less people together , better ventilation, more working from home , take care of nature , less working at the same time ..
It will just keep mutating faster and faster ..
But that’s my opinion
Why are you assuming this will happen in every country in europe?
I doubt it will happen here in sweden at least.
FunkMiller
Banned
Well yeah, that’s fair enough. But these twats are moaning that their freedoms are being trodden on. This is clearly not the case.
You’re free to boycott a business. They are free to stop you going in. And it won’t concern them much, because people who are anti the Covid vax are a minority.
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vpance
Member
Mexico won’t be ‘hostage’ to Big Pharma, president says, as internet predicts trouble after country rejects Covid jabs for kids
Social media users have theorized that President Andres Manuel López Obrador could face severe repercussions after he refused to purchase Covid vaccines for children, vowing that Mexico wouldn’t bow to pressure from drugs firms.
BarringGaffner
Member
I somehow doubt these selfish morons will be boycotting Walmart for mandating vaccinations for their employees.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Mexico won’t be ‘hostage’ to Big Pharma, president says, as internet predicts trouble after country rejects Covid jabs for kids
Social media users have theorized that President Andres Manuel López Obrador could face severe repercussions after he refused to purchase Covid vaccines for children, vowing that Mexico wouldn’t bow to pressure from drugs firms.www.rt.com
I predict an unfortunate heart attack in his near future.
Hulk_Smash
Banned
The people that won’t get vaccinated are not in charge of the lockdowns. So you’re blaming the wrong people.
The state is the only entity that has any control over lockdowns and their enforcement of them. Period.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I’ve finally decided to get the vaccine. I’m getting Pfizer.
I don’t like this, I fully believe this needed a longer trial. But I either become a social recluse or everytime I feel unwell I get COVID-19 paranoia.
Fuck.
I don’t like this, I fully believe this needed a longer trial. But I either become a social recluse or everytime I feel unwell I get COVID-19 paranoia.
Fuck.
vpance
Member
Bret and Heather are going over this statistical analysis right now. Lots of charts.
drrollergator.substack.com
The TLDR:
Lies, Damned Lies, and Vaccine Statistics
Hyper-vigilant vaccination advocates are pushing dangerous misinformation about vaccine efficacy
drrollergator.substack.com
The TLDR:
Why are the infection death rates higher?
The reason, hidden in plain sight, is that a large number people who were never going to die, are no longer getting infected.
By obsessively spreading the misinformation that people have additional benefits to protect against death if they become infected, in order to encourage everyone to get vaccinated, it becomes a unknown fact those most likely to die (6.6 in 100,000)7 are now most likely to get infected (2.5 in 100,000).
Contrast that with those who were least likely to die (0.04 in 100,000) are now those least likely to get infected (1.7 in 100,000).
And these results are now being reflected across the globe. In the UK, which is tracking variants, reports that among Delta variant cases, those vaccinated with two doses died at a rate of 0.0078 per infection and those unvaccinated died at a rate of 0.0014 per infection. The death per infection was 5.7 times higher among the vaccinated.
Without careful control and understanding, one might erroneously conclude the Delta variant is is more lethal if you’ve been vaccinated, the vaccine is losing its efficacy, the vaccination is making people weaker, or some combination. While any of those are possible outcomes in this environment, by not being aware of the infection death rate issue from the start, because one is busy spreading misinformation about extra levels of protection that the data do not support, one misses how to properly control for these effects and analyze new data as it comes in.
The death rate if infected was always going to be higher in the vaccinated groups if most of the vaccinated weren’t those likely to die in the first place.
The reason, hidden in plain sight, is that a large number people who were never going to die, are no longer getting infected.
By obsessively spreading the misinformation that people have additional benefits to protect against death if they become infected, in order to encourage everyone to get vaccinated, it becomes a unknown fact those most likely to die (6.6 in 100,000)7 are now most likely to get infected (2.5 in 100,000).
Contrast that with those who were least likely to die (0.04 in 100,000) are now those least likely to get infected (1.7 in 100,000).
And these results are now being reflected across the globe. In the UK, which is tracking variants, reports that among Delta variant cases, those vaccinated with two doses died at a rate of 0.0078 per infection and those unvaccinated died at a rate of 0.0014 per infection. The death per infection was 5.7 times higher among the vaccinated.
Without careful control and understanding, one might erroneously conclude the Delta variant is is more lethal if you’ve been vaccinated, the vaccine is losing its efficacy, the vaccination is making people weaker, or some combination. While any of those are possible outcomes in this environment, by not being aware of the infection death rate issue from the start, because one is busy spreading misinformation about extra levels of protection that the data do not support, one misses how to properly control for these effects and analyze new data as it comes in.
The death rate if infected was always going to be higher in the vaccinated groups if most of the vaccinated weren’t those likely to die in the first place.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Well when you set up a study where you recruit relatively healthy people and allow placebo people to switch to vaccination once it was approved, then it is no shock that you see no difference in deaths because the study is designed ethically. There were only 3 in 40000 COVID deaths in the entire study.
Any study like this would not show a significant difference in deaths,
so in effect yes people are asking for the pharmaceutical companies to allow people to die to convince people on Twitter.
BarringGaffner
Member
‘Do not pick the flowers’
‘But there are so many of them, they won’t notice one missing flower’
‘If everyone picked just one, there would be none left to enjoy’
- a lesson in a personal action/inaction contributing towards a greater good that even a 3 year old can understand. Even a 3 year old wouldn’t blame the gardener for locking the gate.
Not so sure if the policy is supported by the province's medical community if they're protesting this decision.
That does sound like it could be a problem.
The most foreboding although not alarmist:
It's good Health Canada is mentioning keeping an eye on things in case Alberta needs federal aid if their policy goes awry and leads to their health system being overwhelmed. Sounding like they're planning or recommending provinces plan for a possible scenario that if Albertans get really sick from their policy that provincial borders will have to be closed to keep Albertans from seeking medical care in neighbouring areas and overwhelming those systems.
Hope they're not needed but if the military has to set up temp hospitals hope they do it in public places like the Saddledome and that this is a result of Alberta first.
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thefool
Member
I can relate to your situation.
QSD
Member
Don't worry, you'll be fine
I can't say if the COVID paranoia will be gone though, at work me and my colleagues have been vaxxed for months and sometimes we still get it (both the paranoia and the covid - 2 breakthrough cases so far
)
DeepBreath87
Banned
First of all your example is not action/inaction. It’s just action. Picking flowers is active. This almost nothing like that. This vaccine debate is much more akin to seatbelts. We mandate seatbelts. We probably shouldn’t, but we do. I’m somewhat against the idea of seatbelt laws if only because I am against the government forcing people to take care of themselves. If you want to be a fool riding around at 70mph in a metal box on the highway without your seatbelt, I don’t know if anyone should stop you. You’ll probably be fine, but you increase your risk of dying.
I don’t see how these vaccines are not exactly like that. Maybe they will be mandated. Maybe they won’t. But I’m against making people do anything unless it is an absolute societal necessity. I just don’t think that, given the current relatively high level of vaccination in the US, for example, it’s necessary to force anyone to take medicine they do not feel comfortable taking.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
No, not at all. It's just worth noting that the trial that provided the justification to allow for emergency use of the vaccine had too small of a sample size to show any benefit in mortality.
BarringGaffner
Member
You can easily create an ‘inaction’ example from that as well, such as doing nothing as an individual against an invading country, but I was just trying to keep it incredibly simple. Seatbelts deaths aren’t contagious, but it’s another good comparison.
With the seatbelt comparison, again that personal choice of not wearing a seatbelt doesn’t just effect them. They aren’t just scraped into a bin at the side of the road. If they crash without a seatbelt, the public and emergency workers have to deal with that horrible scene, then hospital workers time taken up, hospital beds will be taken up, etc. Not wearing a seatbelt doesn’t remove you from all the things that we offer in our society just because you’re a selfish dumbass.
QSD
Member
Maybe the example of speed limits is also salient. They could be legislated to be much lower (at great social/economic costs) and it's a given that if they were, 1000s of lives would be saved every year. Yet this never happens... is it some kind of gross negligence of the government that they fail to protect people?
badblue
Gold Member
I honestly don't know anyone that supports this. Even people that I know that are die hard UCP supporters are criticizing this.
I don't think anywhere else has stopped making people that test positive for covid self isolate. And I'd personally rather not being at the epicenter of this experiment. (Especially given that I've only just been medically allowed to go get my first shot)
FunkMiller
Banned
Just remember than millions upon millions of people have had the vaccine with no issues, and that nobody can go through life without a little risk every now and again (even if it incredibly small). Also, you’re helping to protect others who might be more vulnerable.
Raven117
Gold Member
No. You blame the government for over reacting when deaths are still super low.
I just watched the interview with the Calgary doctor with him trying to make sense of it in how it could possible benefit public health. The only thing he could come up with is that it was meant to add motivation to the advice from Hinshaw for younger Albertans to get the vaccine. And effectiveness is questionable.
It is an irrational decision, if a person thinks Kenney's gov are trying to keep cases down.
So then why would they want cases to go up dramatically with unclear short or longterm outcomes? Political experiment with health of Albertans on the line seems to be what people are suggesting.
Official UPC line seems to be they think vaxx rates are good and Delta isn't serious enough to be a problem. Maybe they think they'll look good if things go well since they are politically very unpopular atm. Not sure how that will work out since people really don't like having their lives risked for the political fortunes of others. Be pretty tough to blame the feds for any problems resulting from this policy. It could destroy UPC and their federal counterparts support for awhile.