Support NeoGAF

[DeepBreath87]

I also know what covid does to people because I've had it, my brother was intubated and my work requires me to keep myself updated on the situation of every hospital that tends to infected people in my state. My argument wasn't that "any action is justified regardless of the number of people dying". Let me be 100% clear about this because it seems to have caused some confusion: my argument is that DEATH NUMBERS is not a factor that should motivate the government to take any action in regards to Covid because as far as public measures goes it's not determinant. You fight the SPREAD RATE, not the death rate. Again, if you're taking action in response to people dying, you're taking action too late.

I'm not in charge though, but yeah I'd make it mandatory and if you complain about it I'd make it mandatory for you to take the shot up the ass.

Then you need to really work on your communication skills. Because this:

This is a global pandemic, any effort by any government to mitigate the catastrophe is fair game.

Implies a whole lot more than what you apparently meant to say.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Then you need to really work on your communication skills. Because this:


Implies a whole lot more than what you apparently meant to say.

You're right, I could have worded that better. I meant any science based effort the government has to put in place in order to contain this worldwide slaughter is valid even if it's perceived as arbitrary. Again, if it's backed by concrete studies and take into consideration the situation of the country/state/city.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[BarringGaffner]

So the government has to get involved with threats of fines, shutdowns, imprisonment every time my actions MIGHT affect someone else? Boy only if this logic were first applied to abortion I might actually take liberals seriously.

How about this: come up with solutions that don’t involve forcing people by threat of violence to do things against their will. How about that?

No, it's not black and white and obviously there is a huge scale this can work across. If you are against the vaccinations for that reason are you also against seat belts? Speed limits? Those bring fines that could lead to imprisonment ('violence') if not paid. The difference is that you're just used to it. Your the one with the confused politics because your politics have utterly failed the stress test of a pandemic.

There are solutions in action right now- mock the unvaccinated making them pariahs until they get it, have companies mandate vaccinations and employees are free to leave, encourage right wing media to change their narrative to start encouraging people get the vaccination, etc. The selfish cowards are caving as we are seeing increased first jabs.

 

[Malakhov]

We could save far more lives banning persons from being more than 50 pounds overweight. We would also solve a lot of other social problems, and mental health issues.

Yeah, I really enjoy getting shit from two coworkers women that weight 300+lbs for not getting vaccinated while I went from 210lbs to 180lbs since march last year and just just did a 18miles hike today.

I'm sure they have way better chances to survive covid than I do..

 

[Raven117]

Pretty sure I blame the idiotic people who are refusing to get vaccinated. This is a global pandemic, any effort by any government to mitigate the catastrophe is fair game. The idea that there's a threshold of deaths that call in a government to action is revolting.

Oh please. Get off it. People die all the time and there are things a government can do to prevent them.

there is no catastrophe. Not now. Deaths are still super low in vaccinated countries.

Moreover, at this point, if you aren’t vaccinated (in the us) you have made your choice.

Your opinion on this matter is particularly heinous masquerading as virtue.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

“Vaccination during a global pandemic is not comparable to labor camp lol.”

it is when when people are getting arrested for not complying. Hell it didn’t even take the vaccine for that to happen.

Same mentality. Blame the innocent for something they can’t control (the spread of the virus).

 

[Hulk_Smash]

No, it's not black and white and obviously there is a huge scale this can work across. If you are against the vaccinations for that reason are you also against seat belts? Speed limits? Those bring fines that could lead to imprisonment ('violence') if not paid. The difference is that you're just used to it. Your the one with the confused politics because your politics have utterly failed the stress test of a pandemic.

There are solutions in action right now- mock the unvaccinated making them pariahs until they get it, have companies mandate vaccinations and employees are free to leave, encourage right wing media to change their narrative to start encouraging people get the vaccination, etc. The selfish cowards are caving as we are seeing increased first jabs.

Yes, I am in fact against the government mandating seatbelts and speed limits. One doesn’t need the government to work and the other is just a money making machine.

I am against all government intervention where there hasn’t been a crime with a victim (other than oneself).

 

[Lionel Richie]

Oh please. Get off it. People die all the time and there are things a government can do to prevent them.

there is no catastrophe. Not now. Deaths are still super low in vaccinated countries.

Moreover, at this point, if you aren’t vaccinated (in the us) you have made your choice.

Your opinion on this matter is particularly heinous masquerading as virtue.

I don't know how to respond to this, it reads like you're agreeing with my while angrily disagreeing.

“Vaccination during a global pandemic is not comparable to labor camp lol.”

it is when when people are getting arrested for not complying. Hell it didn’t even take the vaccine for that to happen.

Same mentality. Blame the innocent for something they can’t control (the spread of the virus).

They do have some control, not complying in that context means helping the spread of the virus.

 

[Kenpachii]

Only reason i got vaccinated is because of lung damage that hits even healthy teenagers.

Takes like 15 minutes, had zero side effects after it. Rather be protected then gambling on getting crippled for the rest of my life.

 

[Raven117]

I don't know how to respond to this, it reads like you're agreeing with my while angrily disagreeing.



They do have some control, not complying in that context means helping the spread of the virus.

No. We are not agreeing.

government should not shut anything down. there is no ongoing “catastrophe”

 

[Lionel Richie]

No. We are not agreeing.

government should not shut anything down. there is no ongoing “catastrophe”

I can't speak for where you live, but in general the necessity of shutting anything down is going to the depend largely on the spread rate of that place. It shouldn't be the first measure, but if it looks like shit could spiral out of control you just have to do it.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Yes, I am in fact against the government mandating seatbelts and speed limits. One doesn’t need the government to work and the other is just a money making machine.

I am against all government intervention where there hasn’t been a crime with a victim (other than oneself).

There is a lot to be said for this but for instance, would there be licence plates in this scenario and rules requiring everyone to register their car in a central database with penalties for not doing so ?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Yes, I am in fact against the government mandating seatbelts and speed limits. One doesn’t need the government to work and the other is just a money making machine.

Compare the historical records on death on the road before and after the compulsory seatbelts, not to mention cars go nowadays way faster than in the past, as well as there are way more car owners.

I hear a lot of crap in this thread but seatbelts as money making machine? That’s easy Top10.

 

[sinnergy]

Unrelated thought but I wonder how the doomers and gloomers will respond in 1-3 months when this new global summer wave inevitably dies off. Not even trying to be a smart ass or snide like I genuinely wonder cause that will be not one, not two, but three repeats (oct-jan wave, mar-may wave) of this tiresome cycle of

*wave rises* "We're losing, its grim, all these selfish covidiots" *wave dies off* "Normal 2021, yay! man we can get out of this. I feel optimistic"
*wave rises* "Its not over yet, told everyone all along. We're still in a pandemic. Its far from over. Its here forever" *wave dies off* "Humanity always rises to the challenge, fuck you covid, never wearing a mask again"

Rinse wash repeat fooooor...? To 2023? 2024? Beyond? Has to stop eventually. And I'm mainly referring to online and the internet with this. The real world its a slightly different story although I will say this Indian variant or delta if that's too offensive in 2021 has scared some people in real life in a way I haven't seen since the pandemic started which is sad to me.

Spanish flu took people 10 years on .. who knows , only thing that we managed is, kept death relatively low, lock downs etc ..

But it mutates in more easily spreading versions , which even makes people more sick ..

So maybe it will also run it’s course in 8 more years ..

 

[arkhamguy123]

Spanish flu took people 10 years on .. who knows , only thing that we managed is, kept death relatively low, lock downs etc ..

But it mutates in more easily spreading versions , which even makes people more sick ..

So maybe it will also run it’s course in 8 more years ..

Uh dude spanish flu took like 2 years...

 

[GeekyDad]

That's a myth that perpetuates fatness. You have a metabolism, your body is burning calories, if you eat less calories than your body burns, you will lose weight. Certain types of foods are found to be more filling, while other foods through high sugar content create insulin spikes that actually cause you to be more hungry. Being a healthy weight isn't rocket science, it's easier than ever. Find me this person who literally cannot lose weight so that we can debunk thermodynamics once and forever.

Basic biological science

That is insanely oversimplifying a problem.

It's literally the same as saying, "quitting heroine isn't rocket science, it's easier than ever." It's addiction. We all know how to lose weight. Doing it is another thing entirely.

 

[sinnergy]

Uh dude spanish flu took like 2 years...

The majority of people yes, but there are records that indicate people still died 10 years after , it’s on the internet, data available if you look, for example here in my country The Netherlands.

Spanish flu took 60 million lives ww, we now had measures.

And seeing how we stopped COVID to ravage the earth with all the measures ..
who says it won’t run it’s course ?

 

[FunkMiller]

That is insanely oversimplifying a problem.

It's literally the same as saying, "quitting heroine isn't rocket science, it's easier than ever." It's addiction. We all know how to lose weight. Doing it is another thing entirely.

Doesn’t mean the answer isn’t simple. Not easy, but definitely simple. Companies have made billions off people trying to avoid that simple fact.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes, I am in fact against the government mandating seatbelts and speed limits. One doesn’t need the government to work and the other is just a money making machine.

I am against all government intervention where there hasn’t been a crime with a victim (other than oneself).

Assume from this you’re right behind stronger gun control in the US, given how many people are dying?

 

[Porcile]

Spanish flu was an absolutely monster. People literally vomited their innards. It probably mutated so drastically because it killed so many people and had nowhere else to go. Corona is very intelligent too. Much less deadly, just as if not more contagious, but can cause you some serious long term organ damage while it has a nice little party. It's far more intelligent and adaptable than any human, vaccinated mask wearer or not.

 

[Methos#1975]

No, it's not black and white and obviously there is a huge scale this can work across. If you are against the vaccinations for that reason are you also against seat belts? Speed limits? Those bring fines that could lead to imprisonment ('violence') if not paid. The difference is that you're just used to it. Your the one with the confused politics because your politics have utterly failed the stress test of a pandemic.

There are solutions in action right now- mock the unvaccinated making them pariahs until they get it, have companies mandate vaccinations and employees are free to leave, encourage right wing media to change their narrative to start encouraging people get the vaccination, etc. The selfish cowards are caving as we are seeing increased first jabs.

Some companies cannot afford to mandate vaccines. The factory I work at has a less than 20% vaccinated rate. Hardly anyone here is vaccinated and retention levels are already so bad that it's a struggle to meet production requirements. A vaccine requirement would probably force them to close since so many here are already fed up with the Coronovirus stuff set in place and leaving in droves. The vaccinated are the mocked pariahs, not the unvaccinated. I think that is a situation many fail to realize, there are large patches of the US where the majority aren't getting vaccinated and in such areas, such mandates will simply fail.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

There is a lot to be said for this but for instance, would there be licence plates in this scenario and rules requiring everyone to register their car in a central database with penalties for not doing so ?

No. In a libertarian society, there would be no reason for the government to need to register your car. Same goes for drivers licenses or any license.

But I really would rather not derail this thread so I’ll let you have the last word on this subject.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Assume from this you’re right behind stronger gun control in the US, given how many people are dying?

Yes, I do believe we should further restrict the government’s use of guns since they killed far more people than any private citizen could ever dream of.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes, I do believe we should further restrict the government’s use of guns since they killed far more people than any private citizen could ever dream of.

Good lord. How do you live with that much paranoia? Must be hell on your nerves

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Spanish flu took people 10 years on .. who knows , only thing that we managed is, kept death relatively low, lock downs etc ..

But it mutates in more easily spreading versions , which even makes people more sick ..

So maybe it will also run it’s course in 8 more years ..

It was more like two years for the worst of it. Within 4 years they had a vaccine. And the Spanish Flu lockdowns only lasted 10 weeks and it was only in large metropolitan areas.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Good lord. How do you live with that much paranoia? Must be hell on your nerves

Right. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Korea and the millions of lives the US pointlessly snuffed out were based on paranoia. I think you’re the one that’s worried. Worried that your neighbor has a concealed carry permit. Or worse... they walk into Walmart without a mask on! Might as well arrest them for mass murder!

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I don't know how to respond to this, it reads like you're agreeing with my while angrily disagreeing.



They do have some control, not complying in that context means helping the spread of the virus.

What control does someone have in spreading the virus? Other than staying home if they’re showing symptoms?

 

[FunkMiller]

Right. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Korea and the millions of lives the US pointlessly snuffed out were based on paranoia. I think you’re the one that’s worried. Worried that your neighbor has a concealed carry permit. Or worse... they walk into Walmart without a mask on! Might as well arrest them for mass murder!

I’m thankfully not in your messed up country.

 

[Methos#1975]

Right. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Korea and the millions of lives the US pointlessly snuffed out were based on paranoia. I think you’re the one that’s worried. Worried that your neighbor has a concealed carry permit. Or worse... they walk into Walmart without a mask on! Might as well arrest them for mass murder!

Most of those deaths weren't due to guns but rockets and guided bombs

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Most of those deaths weren't due to guns but rockets and guided bombs

Yes. Even worse. But I don’t want to derail the thread further.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I’m thankfully not in your messed up country.

No wonder you’re so compliant with statist regulations.

 

[FunkMiller]

No wonder you’re so compliant with statist regulations.

I know of no other country where people have this bizarre relationship with their government, and I’ve been lucky enough to go to an awful lot of countries (None of this shit ones, mind). Probably explains a lot about the attitude towards getting a vaccine. Maybe if your pastors were telling you to get it rather than your politicians, things might be different.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I know of no other country where people have this bizarre relationship with their government, and I’ve been lucky enough to go to an awful lot of countries (None of this shit ones, mind). Probably explains a lot about the attitude towards getting a vaccine. Maybe if your pastors were telling you to get it rather than your politicians, things might be different.

You’ve never heard of a country where people had disdain for government interference in their lives? Really? It’s ironic that you would be implying other people are sheltered.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I know of no other country where people have this bizarre relationship with their government, and I’ve been lucky enough to go to an awful lot of countries (None of this shit ones, mind). Probably explains a lot about the attitude towards getting a vaccine. Maybe if your pastors were telling you to get it rather than your politicians, things might be different.

No it wouldn’t. Many pastors ARE telling people to get it. I’m surprised that you trust an entity so much that has had a history of lying straight to your face. We now have multiple sources of lying, flip-flopping, and straight up ignorance in government when it comes to COVID.

 

[Guileless]

 

[sinnergy]

It was more like two years for the worst of it. Within 4 years they had a vaccine. And the Spanish Flu lockdowns only lasted 10 weeks and it was only in large metropolitan areas.

In a world 100 years ago , and not so connected..

 

[Loki]

NYC’s Mayor DeBlasio is now expected to announce a vaccine requirement for all restaurant dining. Not sure exactly how the government has the authority to mandate that for private businesses, but it’s abundantly clear that we’re living in a clown world ruled by hysteria and paranoia and not the actual data.

 

[ManaByte]

Not sure exactly how the government has the authority to mandate that for private businesses

Who issues them their business license?

 

[Smoke6]

Well yeah, that’s fair enough. But these twats are moaning that their freedoms are being trodden on. This is clearly not the case.

You’re free to boycott a business. They are free to stop you going in. And it won’t concern them much, because people who are anti the Covid vax are a minority.

Well if that’s true then why are they paying organizations such as the NFL millions of dollars to promote it? But other life threatening illnesses that have cures or vaccines are not even being pushed as hard as this shit is!

 

[arkhamguy123]

The majority of people yes, but there are records that indicate people still died 10 years after , it’s on the internet, data available if you look, for example here in my country The Netherlands.

Spanish flu took 60 million lives ww, we now had measures.

And seeing how we stopped COVID to ravage the earth with all the measures ..
who says it won’t run it’s course ?

People still died 20,30,40,50+ years later. The flu pandemics of both the late 50s and 60s and the swine flu were the spanish flu flaring up again. It became endemic.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Who issues them their business license?

Aaaand that's why I'm against licenses. Why should a restaurant be morally and legally liable for who enters their establishment voluntarily? Where is the precedent for that? And how would that work for out-of-towners? Out-of-country tourists? Doing this is basically telling the world, we don't give a damn about your personal freedom or your current medical condition. You want to eat at our restaurants, you let us play doctor and scientist in your personal life.

Also, I would hate to be a restaurant owner right now. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you were one of the few owners that hung on this past year, this might be the thing that would cause you to hang it up for good.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

In a world 100 years ago , and not so connected..

And? So they aren't comparable at all really. So, why bring it up in the first place?

 

[Hulk_Smash]

These are the people all the statist loving bootlickers want in charge of mandates. What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

[Kraz]

With a couple days to think about Alberta's recent Covid direction(or absence of it) and read opinions, except for things like a lack of data collection to accurately adjust health policy and inform public, it's not that bad viewed from the outside as a test case within Canada. Although, that perspective does dehumanize Albertans to guinea pigs. I wouldn't want to be part of that human experiment and would prefer they weren't, but the policy is a result of the leadership they voted for.

The lack of testing, tracing, monitoring and reporting outbreaks plus no mandated isolation will likely affect interprovincial relations in various ways. Until it is shown that the Alberta plan isn't harmful to the public. That could take awhile without testing, tracing... to report on.

BC was just loosening up regional sports participation and spectators. It's unlikely many parents or teams in BC want their kids/players exposed to Covid when it's something that could be tested, traced, monitored, reported and isolated to prevent contact and spread. Kinda sucks.

AB still have a few weeks to adjust before letting loose.

 

[FunkMiller]

Well if that’s true then why are they paying organizations such as the NFL millions of dollars to promote it? But other life threatening illnesses that have cures or vaccines are not even being pushed as hard as this shit is!

What does that have to do with businesses refusing custom to unvaccinated people?

 

[DeepBreath87]

These are the people all the statist loving bootlickers want in charge of mandates. What the hell is wrong with you people?

See that’s what blows my mind. It’s almost like they love seeing people forced to do things against their will so much that the absolute hypocrisy of the people doing the forcing doesn’t matter. At some point it ceases to be about the disease or science and becomes simply about sticking it to others.

Shit like that happened in Stalin’s Russia where the leaders would come in and blame certain groups of the population for exploiting another larger group. They would foment resentment against the targeted group to the point where the leadership could do terrible things to them. Meanwhile, the leadership was taking advantage of everybody but no one seemed to care. Because while it may have seemed to be about some principle in the beginning, it pretty rapidly became about just hurting other people.

I think that for some people, covid is just a pretense to indulge in the darker parts of human nature.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Chaplain]

Haven't been posting much for a few days due to moving from California to Idaho. Finally got some free time to post.