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[Taxexemption]

How about said customers get vaccinated to support their local business?

No point if I'll spread the virus anyways. Not getting vaccinated, i will alter my lifestyle to avoid the vax. If it's required to travel, i won't travel. If that means I can't leave my state at some point, I'll just never leave or find a clever way of bypassing whatever system the government puts in place.


Your system must learn to deal with people like me. There is no changing my mind on this subject. Ultimately either you accept my right to be unvaccinated, or use force against me. Even if I lose my job I'll just find another. If no employer will hire me I'll find some other way to get by.


I wouldn't get vaxxed for a million dollars. There is no incentive, and any force literally needs to be on the level of sending a hit team after me or I'm just not going to comply.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Your system must learn to deal with people like me.

Oh trust me, the system will learn how to deal with people like you and you won't like it lol. You still have the chance to be a productive, law abiding citizen.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Your system must learn to deal with people like me. There is no changing my mind on this subject. Ultimately either you accept my right to be unvaccinated, or use force against me. Even if I lose my job I'll just find another. If no employer will hire me I'll find some other way to get by.

I 100% support your right to live according to your beliefs. Given your stance on vaccination - stay the fuck home or face sanctions. If the government is inept at controlling and sanctioning people like you it’s not on you, it’s on the government. No hard feeling.

 

[terintamel]

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2021/07/covid_survivors_resistance/index.html

Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses....

In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.....

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

 

[ManaByte]

Guys, something's wrong. It's now Tuesday and local news in LA has stopped posting daily stories about increasing case counts for almost a week.

 

[ManaByte]

NIH director backs away from suggestion that parents wear masks at home to protect kids

The head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) tried to walk back his comments suggesting that parents wear masks at home to protect unvaccinated children.

www.foxnews.com

 

[terintamel]

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2021/07/covid_survivors_resistance/index.html

Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses....

In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.....

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

In another part of the article is goes on to say the following.

Ahmed says investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.

“Vaccines that target other parts of the virus rather than just the spike protein may be more helpful in containing infection as SARS-CoV-2 variants overtake the prevailing strains,” says Ahmed. “This could pave the way for us to design vaccines that address multiple coronaviruses.”

Seems to me he is saying Natural Immunity via previous infection in some ways is superior and they should look at how natural immunity is working to influence on how to improve the vaccines.

So let's just keep in going in circles about vaxx vs anti-vaxx and ignore a large number or people who are what I would like to call naturally vaxxed.

 

[Raven117]

Shhhh let the whiners whine.

Yeah, that whining is going straight to SCOTUS.

 

[Taxexemption]

Oh trust me, the system will learn how to deal with people like you and you won't like it lol. You still have the chance to be a productive, law abiding citizen.

I doubt the system will do much. If it manages to make me unemployed and unemployable, such is life. I'll find a way to survive. Maybe I'll become one of those pot smoking beach bums.

 

[Raven117]

NIH director backs away from suggestion that parents wear masks at home to protect kids

The head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) tried to walk back his comments suggesting that parents wear masks at home to protect unvaccinated children.

www.foxnews.com

LOL.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

NIH director backs away from suggestion that parents wear masks at home to protect kids

The head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) tried to walk back his comments suggesting that parents wear masks at home to protect unvaccinated children.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Guileless]

NIH director backs away from suggestion that parents wear masks at home to protect kids

The head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) tried to walk back his comments suggesting that parents wear masks at home to protect unvaccinated children.

www.foxnews.com

Is any other country in the world giving insane guidance like this to its people?

 

[Hydelol]

Oh trust me, the system will learn how to deal with people like you and you won't like it lol. You still have the chance to be a productive, law abiding citizen.

Maybe the "system" will eventually find a way to deal with people like you. Do you really not see what you sound like?

 

[Raven117]

Oh trust me, the system will learn how to deal with people like you and you won't like it lol. You still have the chance to be a productive, law abiding citizen.

Listen. To. Yourself.

 

[FunkMiller]

There has always been a boogeyman in the American consciousness. Whether it be communism/red scare, Muslim extremism/taliban/ al-queda/Iran. Now we are the boogeyman to each other.

Sadly, it seems like the boogeyman these days is scientific rationality - something perpetuated and increased by the American religious right wing. The safety and efficacy of the covid vaccine has been proved in real world trials, studies and public roll out, and yet some people still insist they know better than the scientists. I can kind of understand a distrust of pharmaceutical companies in the United States, given how third world terrible and greed driven the healthcare system is, but covid is a worldwide issue, with the vaccines being proven across multiple countries. There really is no good reason not to get vaccinated, other than either a paranoid delusion about what the US government is up to, or a refusal to accept scientific reality when it's in front of you.

 

[Kilau]

Oh trust me, the system will learn how to deal with people like you and you won't like it lol. You still have the chance to be a productive, law abiding citizen.

Listen. To. Yourself.

Pretty much this.

 

[delirium trigger]

The people who support vaccine passports for everyday activities would also support jailing the non-vaccinated if that came to fruition and at this rate it absolutely will in some states.

 

[terintamel]

There really is no good reason not to get vaccinated, other than either a paranoid delusion about what the US government is up to, or a refusal to accept scientific reality when it's in front of you.

Natural Immunity from previous infections seems like a good enough reason to me. Everyone seems to ignore that and push that a vaccine is the ONLY way to protect yourself or others.

COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

 

[FunkMiller]

Natural Immunity from previous infections seems like a good enough reason to me. Everyone seems to ignore that and push that a vaccine is the ONLY way to protect yourself or others.

COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

That is an interesting study. You'll note the use of the word 'may' in the title though. Also, far, far more real world studies indicate that vaccine immunity is far greater than infection immunity, and that infection immunity is largely short-lived. I'd invite you to google 'covid infection immunity vs vaccine immunity' for proof of this.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The people who support vaccine passports for everyday activities would also support jailing the non-vaccinated if that came to fruition and at this rate it absolutely will in some states.

Most abso-fucking-lutely would. They may not admit it at this stage, but they've shown they can be convinced of anything

 

[Thaedolus]

Natural Immunity from previous infections seems like a good enough reason to me. Everyone seems to ignore that and push that a vaccine is the ONLY way to protect yourself or others.

COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

Ask people who got their immunity from polio or smallpox “naturally” how that worked out.

 

[Jaysen]

The people who support vaccine passports for everyday activities would also support jailing the non-vaccinated if that came to fruition and at this rate it absolutely will in some states.

Don’t have to jail them. Those idiots will kill themselves off.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Maybe the "system" will eventually find a way to deal with people like you. Do you really not see what you sound like?

There's no need to "deal" with me. I'm vaccinated and follow the rules.

 

[terintamel]

Ask people who got their immunity from polio or smallpox “naturally” how that worked out.

Not at all similar diseases and you know it. Polio and smallpox are far more dangerous to a larger number of people than Covid is. If polio had a greater than 99% survival rate for the overwhelming majority of the population it would not have been the terror it was during its heyday.

BTW - I got Covid two months ago and it was less than any flu or cold I ever had. Also the real stats per my age group for over the last 12 months show that my risk of death from Covid are less than 0.069%.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Ask people who got their immunity from polio or smallpox “naturally” how that worked out.

Pretty well in the case of Polio? I mean, something like over 95% of the cases were completely asymptomatic. Still great that we got effective vaccines for it.

 

[Thaedolus]

Not at all similar diseases and you know it. Polio and smallpox are far more dangerous to a larger number of people than Covid is. If polio had a greater than 99% survival rate for the overwhelming majority of the population it would not have been the terror it was during its heyday.

BTW - I got Covid two months ago and it was less than any flu or cold I ever had. Also the real stats per my age group for over the last 12 months show that my risk of death from Covid are less than 0.069%.

Kewl that it wasn’t that bad for you, my wife and I got it last year and it sucked for several days, and her sense of smell and taste isn’t back to normal while I still get brain fog. The point is, if we could’ve gotten the vaccine instead of having us get immunity “naturally” we would’ve, because the vaccine hasn’t been definitively shown to kill anyone to my knowledge* and COVID has killed over 600,000.

*cue a deluge of unsubstantiated FUD from internet grifters.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Kewl that it wasn’t that bad for you, my wife and I got it last year and it sucked for several days, and her sense of smell and taste isn’t back to normal while I still get brain fog. The point is, if we could’ve gotten the vaccine instead of having us get immunity “naturally” we would’ve, because the vaccine hasn’t been definitively shown to kill anyone to my knowledge* and COVID has killed over 600,000.

*cue a deluge of unsubstantiated FUD from internet grifters.

I have a feeling it isn’t covid that gave you brain fog.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

because the vaccine hasn’t been definitively shown to kill anyone to my knowledge* and COVID has killed over 600,000.

I think the vaccines are probably mostly safe, but this is not a fair comparison at all. Just about anyone who died with a suspicion of having COVID got counted as a death TO COVID. Meanwhile, anyone who dies within 2 weeks of receiving the vaccine is assumed to have died of other causes. The bar for one is extremely high while the other is basically on the floor.

Kewl that it wasn’t that bad for you, my wife and I got it last year and it sucked for several days, and her sense of smell and taste isn’t back to normal while I still get brain fog.

Don't mean to pick on you specifically, but this reminded me of a funny Tim Dillon clip I saw recently.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Don’t have to jail them. Those idiots will kill themselves off.

Not at these low mortality rates with the Delta...

 

[Thaedolus]

I have a feeling it isn’t covid that gave you brain fog.

I had a feeling you might have a really witty quip like that, which you should definitely feel proud of.

I think the vaccines are probably mostly safe, but this is not a fair comparison at all. Just about anyone who died with a suspicion of having COVID got counted as a death TO COVID. Meanwhile, anyone who dies within 2 weeks of receiving the vaccine is assumed to have died of other causes. The bar for one is extremely high while the other is basically on the floor.



Don't mean to pick on you specifically, but this reminded me of a funny Tim Dillon clip I saw recently.

The vaccines went through trials where patients were followed up in the tens of thousands and are continued to be followed up on under insane scrutiny. There’s overwhelming evidence of safety and efficacy at this point. I’d say they’re not “mostly,” they’re as safe as any medical intervention out there and certainly safer than contracting COVID, which is almost a certainty at this point if you’re not vaccinated.

There’s no legitimate reason for someone who can be vaccinated to forgo it at this point. It reduces your risk of serious illness, period.

 

[vpance]

The people who support vaccine passports for everyday activities would also support jailing the non-vaccinated if that came to fruition and at this rate it absolutely will in some states.

Yep. Posted yesterday

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I had a feeling you might have a really witty quip like that, which you should definitely feel proud of.


The vaccines went through trials where patients were followed up in the tens of thousands and are continued to be followed up on under insane scrutiny. There’s overwhelming evidence of safety and efficacy at this point. I’d say they’re not “mostly,” they’re as safe as any medical intervention out there and certainly safer than contracting COVID, which is almost a certainty at this point if you’re not vaccinated.

There’s no legitimate reason for someone who can be vaccinated to forgo it at this point. It reduces your risk of serious illness, period.

Oh yes, I'm sure you looked into the trial data in detail.

Whatever, they have been out in the wild now for a good deal of time and we will see whatever effects that have in due time. I can only be thankful that you are not the arbiter of what constitutes a "legitimate reason."

 

[tfur]

You can catch, spread and die from Covid with or without the vaccine.

You may not need the vaccine if you have naturally recovered from Covid.
You can still die of Covid if you recovered from Covid naturally.
You can have very bad reactions from the vaccine.
You can still die of Covid if you have been vaccinated.
You can still spread Covid if you are vaccinated.
You can still spread Covid if you are unvaccinated.

Yet you still have empty vessels self righteously promoting sanctions, mandates, vaccine passports, shutdowns, controls, arrests etc.

 

[Thaedolus]

Oh yes, I'm sure you looked into the trial data in detail.

I have, even debunking MHK's anti-vax bullshit using the Pfizer study on the politics forum before he got banned and that forum nuked. Have you ever submitted something to FDA under EUA? Ever helped write clinical protocols or evaluation reports? Any experience in clinical followup and adverse event reporting? I'm not just repeating nonsense I've seen on YouTube, I'm guessing I have a bit more expertise about the clinical process, authorization process, post-market follup process, quality control, etc. than you.

 

[poppabk]

Natural Immunity from previous infections seems like a good enough reason to me. Everyone seems to ignore that and push that a vaccine is the ONLY way to protect yourself or others.

COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

This really makes no sense. You have to get infected to get immunity through infection. Who really cares that you will only get negative effects and possibly hospitalized the first time, when with a vaccine you get to go with zero times.
It's basically saying my plan to not get COVID is to get COVID.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I have, even debunking MHK's anti-vax bullshit using the Pfizer study on the politics forum before he got banned and that forum nuked. Have you ever submitted something to FDA under EUA? Ever helped write clinical protocols or evaluation reports? Any experience in clinical followup and adverse event reporting? I'm not just repeating nonsense I've seen on YouTube, I'm guessing I have a bit more expertise about the clinical process, authorization process, post-market follup process, quality control, etc. than you.

Sweet, an expert! Maybe you can answer my question from a while ago, but do you know exactly how Pfizer tracked infections from both groups in their trial?

 

[Thaedolus]

Sweet, an expert!

I said I'm guessing I have a bit more expertise about a specific list of processes than you.

Maybe you can answer my question from a while ago, but do you know exactly how Pfizer tracked infections from both groups in their trial?

Not off the top of my head, it's been several months since I even looked at the report. Do you know?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I said I'm guessing I have a bit more expertise about a specific list of processes than you.


Not off the top of my head, it's been several months since I even looked at the report. Do you know?

No. I've searched far and wide, but have only come across speculation for the most part. There was this article that claimed the following, but it only got me wondering exactly how they defined symptoms.

COVID-19 vaccines: What does 95% efficacy actually mean?

So, if efficacy means some percent fewer cases of COVID-19, what counts as a "case of COVID"? Both Pfizer and Moderna defined a case as having at least one symptom (however mild) and a positive COVID-19 test. Johnson & Johnson defined a "case" as having a positive COVID-19 test plus at least one moderate symptom (such as shortness of breath, abnormal blood oxygen levels or abnormal respiratory rate) or at least two milder symptoms (such as fever, cough, fatigue, headache, or nausea). Someone with a moderate case of COVID-19 by this definition could either be mildly affected or be incapacitated and feel pretty sick for a few weeks.

 

[Thaedolus]

No. I've searched far and wide, but have only come across speculation for the most part. There was this article that claimed the following, but it only got me wondering exactly how they defined symptoms.

COVID-19 vaccines: What does 95% efficacy actually mean?

Those sound like very reasonable criteria.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Those sound like very reasonable criteria.

It depends on what symptoms they considered valid, especially considering we are seeing a lot of reports that the fully vaccinated present different symptoms to the unvaccinated when infected (more headache and runny nose vs fever and cough).

 

[Thaedolus]

It depends on what symptoms they considered valid, especially considering we are seeing a lot of reports that the fully vaccinated present different symptoms to the unvaccinated when infected (more headache and runny nose vs fever and cough).

The "such as" in the symptoms list implies that it's not all-inclusive. If someone in the vaccinated group tested positive and had headaches (a very common symptom for unvaccinated too, and side note: the only symptom my daughter had was a runny nose), I highly doubt they were excluded as being positive. Even in an expedited EUA review, that would've been heavily scrutinized.

 

[Burning Blade]

I have more respect for people who err on the side of caution than I do the dipshits refusing a free vaccine and then running to the farm supply store to buy bug killers in a sad, stupid attempt to kill covid.

No such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The "such as" in the symptoms list implies that it's not all-inclusive. If someone in the vaccinated group tested positive and had headaches (a very common symptom for unvaccinated too, and side note: the only symptom my daughter had was a runny nose), I highly doubt they were excluded as being positive. Even in an expedited EUA review, that would've been heavily scrutinized.

Well, I would like to see the official protocol rather than make assumptions about how they must have done it, especially since their claimed efficacy rates are contingent on how they chose to define and track infections and do not seem to match the real world.

 

[Loki]

Kewl that it wasn’t that bad for you, my wife and I got it last year and it sucked for several days, and her sense of smell and taste isn’t back to normal while I still get brain fog. The point is, if we could’ve gotten the vaccine instead of having us get immunity “naturally” we would’ve, because the vaccine hasn’t been definitively shown to kill anyone to my knowledge* and COVID has killed over 600,000.

*cue a deluge of unsubstantiated FUD from internet grifters.

It’s only killed something like 150-200K people under age 60. In 20 months.

 

[Thaedolus]

Well, I would like to see the official protocol rather than make assumptions about how they must have done it, especially since their claimed efficacy rates are contingent on how they chose to define and track infections and do not seem to match the real world.

May I ask why? If you saw the criteria from the final protocols, would you have the knowledge and judgment to dispute its appropriateness at the time it was conducted? Do you know more than the MDs and PhDs at FDA?

In my experience, FDA and other regulatory bodies are nothing if not sticklers or complete pains in the ass about details such as these. However, I've never doubted they are being that way in the interest of the safety, so I have no reason to doubt the motives of the EUA here nor do I doubt their expertise.

It’s only killed something like 150-200K people under age 60. In 20 months.

"Only" is doing a lot of work here, for those on both sides of 60.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

May I ask why? If you saw the criteria from the final protocols, would you have the knowledge and judgment to dispute its appropriateness at the time it was conducted? Do you know more than the MDs and PhDs at FDA?

In my experience, FDA and other regulatory bodies are nothing if not sticklers or complete pains in the ass about details such as these. However, I've never doubted they are being that way in the interest of the safety, so I have no reason to doubt the motives of the EUA here nor do I doubt their expertise.

That is a fine appeal to authority, but for me and many others, this last year and a half or so has been a non-stop demonstration of why blind trust in our institutions may not be the best idea. Let's say (purely hypothetically because I have no idea) that it came to light that the Pfizer trial did not consider anyone who did not have a fever or cough to have been infected. Would I need an MD or PhD to debate the appropriateness of such a protocol?

 

[BouncyFrag]

NIH director backs away from suggestion that parents wear masks at home to protect kids

The head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) tried to walk back his comments suggesting that parents wear masks at home to protect unvaccinated children.

www.foxnews.com

 

[ManaByte]

 

[poppabk]

I think the vaccines are probably mostly safe, but this is not a fair comparison at all. Just about anyone who died with a suspicion of having COVID got counted as a death TO COVID. Meanwhile, anyone who dies within 2 weeks of receiving the vaccine is assumed to have died of other causes. The bar for one is extremely high while the other is basically on the floor.

Quoting myself from another thread (partially because I was disappointed that no-one bit on a side effect of vaccination being spewing shit from your mouth)

Quick search of VAERS gives us side effects for COVID 19 vaccines like:
6 people - fear of falling
3 people - faecal vomiting (literally spewing shit)
500 people - flatulence
2 people - female orgasmic disorder
7 people - erection increased

You really think with this type of publicly available granularity of data that a massive wave of death has somehow been missed?

 

[terintamel]

This really makes no sense. You have to get infected to get immunity through infection. Who really cares that you will only get negative effects and possibly hospitalized the first time, when with a vaccine you get to go with zero times.
It's basically saying my plan to not get COVID is to get COVID.

No what I am saying is that if you've already had covid I see no reason to force someone to get the vaccine or mandate it and keep them from being able to go to places of business or entertainment because they have immunity that is equal if not slightly superior to vaccine-based immunity.

What I am tired of is the debate seems to be vaccine versus no vaccine when the debate should be immunity, previous infection or vaccine versus nothing.

Nowhere in my comments was I meaning to imply that everyone is better to get covid than to get the vaccine if you've had neither. Please don't put words in my mouth.