Support NeoGAF

[Nobody_Important]

I don't believe I've ever said that consenting adults should not get vaccinated. It's always been my position that it should be up to the individual to decide.

Yes and mine has always been that if an adult is making that choice based off of misinformation and lies (which the vast majority of people are) then they deserve whatever consequences that come their way. Whether that be getting kicked off a flight, not getting to go to a club, getting crap from your boss, etc etc.


I'm over the idea that these decisions should not have consequences. Because they have very real and possibly serious consequences for the people around them. The time has come and gone for that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes and mine has always been that if an adult is making that choice based off of misinformation and lies (which the vast majority of people are) then they deserve whatever consequences that come their way. Whether that be getting kicked off a flight, not getting to go to a club, getting crap from your boss, etc etc.


I'm over the idea that these decisions should not have consequences. Because they have very real and possibly serious consequences for the people around them. The time has come and gone for that.

The problem is that just a week ago even saying "you can still transmit the virus if you're vaccinated" was deemed misinformation.

The problem this entire goddamn time has been the creation of orthodoxy that is not allowed to be questioned despite this being an ever-evolving situation in which even the experts get tons of things wrong right before our eyes. They need to be allowed to get things wrong, of course, but they also need to not be set up as infallible over and over again.

 

[Thesuffering79]

The problem is that just a week ago even saying "you can still transmit the virus if you're vaccinated" was deemed misinformation.

The problem this entire goddamn time has been the creation of orthodoxy that is not allowed to be questioned despite this being an ever-evolving situation in which even the experts get tons of things wrong right before our eyes. They need to be allowed to get things wrong, of course, but they also need to not be set up as infallible over and over again.

At this point it is all propaganda. It seems like this vaccine is not entirely safe nor is it permanent. You need to take it every 6 months for it to be reasonably effective. The vaccine also has peaks in effectiveness then reduces effectiveness over time. Which is why the Biden admin is advocating for a third shot. It will never end.

I'd rather take something that is continuously effective like ivermectin as a prophylaxis that vaccines that peaks at 91% effectiveness and drops to nil over time. Thing is that Ivermectin is cheap and we cant have cheap medicine.

 

[off duty ninja]

You know what? I'll take it. It's the closest I have come and I will take it.


Jesus.


You know what it is your choice and I respect your right to make it. It's also the choice of any company or agency to fire you if you continue to purposely put the company and its employees at risk over ridiculous conspiracy theories or misinformation.


It's just like free speech. You have the right to say what you want, but you have to be willing to live with the consequences when you are done.

So should they be able to fire people who don’t get the flu shot too? What about the tetanus shot in physical labor jobs like warehousing and manufacturing? I can say first hand that a major shipping company doesn’t give a shit about whether or not you have a tetanus vaccine even though you’re working nonstop around rusty metal shit.

It’s common sense that the vaccine is only potentially going to protect the one who gets it. It’s definitely not protecting others. Frankly, the vaccinated are more likely to spread it because they may not even know they have it. The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting or spreading it and there’s no science that says otherwise. Now obviously if you have less symptoms like coughing etc. you’re less likely to spread it. But vaccinated people have been hospitalized plenty and even died certainly, so saying there’s no risk is fucking retarded.

My body my choice bitches. Im pro choice but at least mine isn’t about murdering babies. It’s so fucking stupid that women can use this excuse when they’re literally wxtinguishing another life. It’s murder right off the bat. Willingly. Not getting the flu shot isn’t. It’s not that hard to figure out.

I don’t go on Twitter and I don’t follow any fucking conspiracy theories, I’m just not going to be a god damn guinea pig anymore. I was a guinea pig for 3 years serving my country and I have no clue what they injected me with when I joined but got multiple shots. I served because I believe in freedom and I’m willing to die for that.

I may end up getting a COVID vaccine at some point but it won’t be because of mandates, but rather scientific proof that it is even worth it.

I’ll say that if I do get COVID and get hospitalized, I’ll come on here and eat some crow but that ain’t fucking happening because I’m generally healthy and not obese.

No private corporation has the right to know about my health issues. You think COVID is the first deadly thing people have brought into the office? The idea that a corporation can pry into our health records in order to fire people is disgusting and this is a very slippery slope. How long until they mandate STD tests just to make sure you don’t pose a health risk to others there.

Is that a cold sore or a herpe on your lip there buddy? You’re gonna have to go get tested and if you got the herps, you’re fired.

 

[Nobody_Important]

The problem is that just a week ago even saying "you can still transmit the virus if you're vaccinated" was deemed misinformation.

The problem this entire goddamn time has been the creation of orthodoxy that is not allowed to be questioned despite this being an ever-evolving situation in which even the experts get tons of things wrong right before our eyes. They need to be allowed to get things wrong, of course, but they also need to not be set up as infallible over and over again.

You admit the hospitalization numbers surrounding children and young adults are bad and you admit that the vaccinated fair better than those who are not. You also say you don't object to the vaccination itself. But you insist on arguing about the politics around the vaccine and the people who support it when that should not even fucking matter. You worry about how "right" they are when they say this or that. You whine about how the vaccine is not as effective as they say or that the politicians get the science wrong and you KNOW that it is better to push the vaccine than advise against it. Yet you still support the morons that are listening to bullshit and deciding against it.


You have completely lost the plot. You are so worried about certain people being right or wrong that you have completely ignored what is safer and better. You are so zero'd in on the language of the articles and the wording of every post that goes against what you have to say. You are so dead set about going against this or that when it comes to the numbers. I legitimately do not know what to say anymore. You are clearly intelligent, but you cannot see the forest through the trees.




You demonstrate that you understand the seriousness of the issues and then proceed to ignore them entirely in your statements. I don't know how to fix that and I don't know what to say anymore.

So should they be able to fire people who don’t get the flu shot too? What about the tetanus shot in physical labor jobs like warehousing and manufacturing?

No they shouldn't because neither of those are as big of issues. But you knew that already before you typed the rest of that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You admit the hospitalization numbers surrounding children and young adults are bad and you admit that the vaccinated fair better than those who are not.

Not for children, I do not. We don't have the data, and I suspect they will not be better off. The absolute risk reduction against COVID scales up the older you are, while the risk for having a severe reaction to a vaccine appears to go the opposite way and scales up the younger you are. There is likely some point where it's simply not worth it. I think it's mad to recommend them for children and plenty of governments agree, thankfully.

In regards to the bad hospitalization numbers for children, I basically said that any child being in the hospital is bad, not that the COVID hospitalizations are especially bad compared to everything else. We could very easily say that when it came to elderly people, however.

You also say you don't object to the vaccination itself. But you insist on arguing about the politics around the vaccine and the people who support it when that should not even fucking matter.

The fuck it shouldn't. The world seems to be embracing medical tyranny and the situation absolutely does not even justify it. Not even close. We're also seeing waning efficacy in vaccines and instead of re-evaluating the situation, people are just doubling down. It's mass derangement from my perspective.

You worry about how "right" they are when they say this or that. You whine about how the vaccine is not as effective as they say or that the politicians get the science wrong and you KNOW that it is better to push the vaccine than advise against it.

Whine about how the vaccine is not as effective as they say? I'm whining? It was sold as the way back to normalcy. You know they know that most people don't understand what the 95% efficacy against infection figure they got from their trial actually means, but it sure is a great number to convince people to get the jab.

Youo just posted about wanting people not be dissuaded from getting vaccinated due to misinformation, but what about the misinformation in favor of vaccination? You don't care about lies as long as it means shots in arms. How about this one?



How many millions do you think he convinced to get the shot because of his series of promises about backyard barbecues and a return to normalcy? And now the deal has been altered; pray it does not alter further (it will).

You have completely lost the plot. You are so worried about certain people being right or wrong that you have completely ignored what is safer and better.

Safer and better is changing with time as I feared and many experts (now heretics) warned it would. My position this entire time that we do not know the long-term effects because it is impossible. I'm not worried about anyone being right or wrong, I'm worried about finding out what's true and parsing through the propaganda.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So should they be able to fire people who don’t get the flu shot too? What about the tetanus shot in physical labor jobs like warehousing and manufacturing? I can say first hand that a major shipping company doesn’t give a shit about whether or not you have a tetanus vaccine even though you’re working nonstop around rusty metal shit.

It’s common sense that the vaccine is only potentially going to protect the one who gets it. It’s definitely not protecting others. Frankly, the vaccinated are more likely to spread it because they may not even know they have it. The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting or spreading it and there’s no science that says otherwise. Now obviously if you have less symptoms like coughing etc. you’re less likely to spread it. But vaccinated people have been hospitalized plenty and even died certainly, so saying there’s no risk is fucking retarded.

My body my choice bitches. Im pro choice but at least mine isn’t about murdering babies. It’s so fucking stupid that women can use this excuse when they’re literally wxtinguishing another life. It’s murder right off the bat. Willingly. Not getting the flu shot isn’t. It’s not that hard to figure out.

I don’t go on Twitter and I don’t follow any fucking conspiracy theories, I’m just not going to be a god damn guinea pig anymore. I was a guinea pig for 3 years serving my country and I have no clue what they injected me with when I joined but got multiple shots. I served because I believe in freedom and I’m willing to die for that.

I may end up getting a COVID vaccine at some point but it won’t be because of mandates, but rather scientific proof that it is even worth it.

I’ll say that if I do get COVID and get hospitalized, I’ll come on here and eat some crow but that ain’t fucking happening because I’m generally healthy and not obese.

No private corporation has the right to know about my health issues. You think COVID is the first deadly thing people have brought into the office? The idea that a corporation can pry into our health records in order to fire people is disgusting and this is a very slippery slope. How long until they mandate STD tests just to make sure you don’t pose a health risk to others there.

Is that a cold sore or a herpe on your lip there buddy? You’re gonna have to go get tested and if you got the herps, you’re fired.

This is a lot of dumb rambling. You don't seem to have a good grasp of how things have always worked.

Health care facilities require their workers to get vaccinated with the flu shot. Those that don't get provided reasonable accommodation - they are required to wear a mask for the duration of flu season. This is not something new - this is our hospital's policy for at least a decade. I've also had to disclose my immunization status for a variety of other conditions at every large health authority I've ever worked at.

The work place is responsible for the health and safety of everyone on the work site, including employees and clients. You really need to look up the occupational health and safety legislation in your jurisdiction. Chances are that the "rights" you think are being violated never existed in the first place.

 

[Loki]

It's just like free speech. You have the right to say what you want, but you have to be willing to live with the consequences when you are done.

When the consequences of exercising a right like free speech mean that you can't LIVE - can't find gainful employment, can't travel, can't engage in any typical public liesure activity (bars, concerts, museums, restaurants etc.), and possibly can't even buy food (if DumbBlasio has his way, as he is "evaluating" a vaccine mandate for grocery stores), then the right effectively doesn't exist. Wars have been fought for less.

 

[Meicyn]

I was a guinea pig for 3 years serving my country and I have no clue what they injected me with when I joined but got multiple shots.

They gave you shots for adenovirus, meningococcal, MMR, Tdap, chicken pox, hep A, hep B, and polio. Chill out.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

When the consequences of exercising a right like free speech mean that you can't LIVE - can't find gainful employment, can't travel, can't engage in any typical public liesure activity (bars, concerts, museums, restaurants etc.), and possibly can't even buy food (if DumbBlasio has his way, as he is "evaluating" a vaccine mandate for grocery stores), then the right effectively doesn't exist. Wars have been fought for less.

You're being hysterical.

Reasonable accommodations can and will be provided for those that do not want to be vaccinated - mandatory mask wearing, working from home, social distancing, online shopping are all options.

 

[Loki]

My feelings are more or less in line with synchronicity's post above. I feel that the current societal (over)reaction to this pandemic is completely disproportional to the level of threat we face presently (as opposed to, say, 18 months ago), and thus is eminently suspicious. It is a result of mass hysteria among 30-50% of the public which has been stoked by the media and politicians, and aided by virtue-signaling. Perhaps something like the Spanish Flu, which killed the equivalent of 156 million people (fairly equally across all cohorts, mind you) going by today's population numbers, would have warranted this type of authoritarian reaction. But not COVID with its 4,000,000 deaths of which 2,500,000 have been among those 70+ years of age.

 

[Loki]

You're being hysterical.

Reasonable accommodations can and will be provided for those that do not want to be vaccinated - mandatory mask wearing, working from home, social distancing, online shopping are all options.

Am I being? When a majority of Fortune 500 companies begin enforcing vaccine mandates for all workers (vurtue-signaling amid the current hysteria all but assures this will happen - it's already begun), and with small- and medium-sized businesses already decimated due to extended lockdowns (and likely further decimated when they lose 30-50% of their customer base/revenue due to government-imposed vaccine mandates), how many open positions do you wager there'll be for unvaccinated folks? Ah yes, online shopping - let's make Amazon grow another 40% as more wealth is concentrated in the hands of one company/person.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Am I being? When a majority of Fortune 500 companies begin enforcing vaccine mandates for all workers (vurtue-signaling amid the current hysteria all but assures this will happen - it's already begun), and with small- and medium-sized businesses already decimated due to extended lockdowns (and likely further decimated when they lose 30-50% of their customer base/revenue due to government-imposed vaccine mandates), how many open positions do you wager there'll be for unvaccinated folks? Ah yes, online shopping - let's make Amazon grow another 40% as more wealth is concentrated in the hands of one company/person.

Wear a mask or start a civil war. You're right, you're being totally rational.

 

[Loki]

Wear a mask or start a civil war. You're right, you're being totally rational.

I am certainly not advocating for a civil war. I'm just saying that even at this stage, it is clear that the options which will be left open for unvaccinated folks don't really constitute a "life", per se - certainly not liberty or the pursuit of happiness, either. I also feel you're being disingenuous about the mask-wearing. If that was on the table we'd see it being offered; instead we see hard vaccine mandates ("no vax = no entry", not "vax = no mask or else you must mask up"). When you combine the third-class "life" these people would be forced to live along with the economic hardships we're struggling with re: jobs etc., it's not hard to see that it's a powder keg.

EDIT: And again, NONE of this is proportional to the level of threat. That's the most absurd part. If COVID had, say, a 6-10% IFR across all cohorts, I'd be the first in line advocating for vaccines and sensible restrictions.

 

[Toons]

I am certainly not advocating for a civil war. I'm just saying that even at this stage, it is clear that the options which will be left open for unvaccinated folks don't really constitute a "life", per se - certainly not liberty or the pursuit of happiness, either. I also feel you're being disingenuous about the mask-wearing. If that was on the table we'd see it being offered; instead we see hard vaccine mandates ("no vax = no entry", not "vax = no mask or else you must mask up"). When you combine the third-class "life" these people would be forced to live along with the economic hardships we're struggling with re: jobs etc., it's not hard to see that it's a powder keg.

EDIT: And again, NONE of this is proportional to the level of threat. That's the most absurd part. If COVID had, say, a 6-10% IFR across all cohorts, I'd be the first in line advocating for vaccines and sensible restrictions.

You know what else doesn't constitute a life? Living with the constant risk of catching a deadly disease that can end it. The measures to avoid that aren't perfect, but they are sure as heck better than the alternative.

Were not trying to wait til it hits those percentages before we start doing something. Thats the point. You dont wait til your grass is 4 feet tall to whip out the lawnmower.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Living with the constant risk of catching a deadly disease that can end it.

That's actually been your entire life, but you just weren't aware of it.

 

[ManaByte]

This has to be CTE:

 

[Nobody_Important]

Not for children, I do not. We don't have the data, and I suspect they will not be better off. The absolute risk reduction against COVID scales up the older you are, while the risk for having a severe reaction to a vaccine appears to go the opposite way and scales up the younger you are. There is likely some point where it's simply not worth it. I think it's mad to recommend them for children and plenty of governments agree, thankfully.

In regards to the bad hospitalization numbers for children, I basically said that any child being in the hospital is bad, not that the COVID hospitalizations are especially bad compared to everything else. We could very easily say that when it came to elderly people, however.



The fuck it shouldn't. The world seems to be embracing medical tyranny and the situation absolutely does not even justify it. Not even close. We're also seeing waning efficacy in vaccines and instead of re-evaluating the situation, people are just doubling down. It's mass derangement from my perspective.



Whine about how the vaccine is not as effective as they say? I'm whining? It was sold as the way back to normalcy. You know they know that most people don't understand what the 95% efficacy against infection figure they got from their trial actually means, but it sure is a great number to convince people to get the jab.

Youo just posted about wanting people not be dissuaded from getting vaccinated due to misinformation, but what about the misinformation in favor of vaccination? You don't care about lies as long as it means shots in arms. How about this one?



How many millions do you think he convinced to get the shot because of his series of promises about backyard barbecues and a return to normalcy? And now the deal has been altered; pray it does not alter further (it will).



Safer and better is changing with time as I feared and many experts (now heretics) warned it would. My position this entire time that we do not know the long-term effects because it is impossible. I'm not worried about anyone being right or wrong, I'm worried about finding out what's true and parsing through the propaganda.

I'm done going in circles with you over it. There is obviously no progress to be made and both of us just waste time everytime it happens. It's just not worth it to me anymore.


We just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Loki]

You know what else doesn't constitute a life? Living with the constant risk of catching a deadly disease that can end it. The measures to avoid that aren't perfect, but they are sure as heck better than the alternative.

Were not trying to wait til it hits those percentages before we start doing something. Thats the point. You dont wait til your grass is 4 feet tall to whip out the lawnmower.

The vast majority of people have a far greater chance of getting hit by a car than dying of COVID. Let's ban cars. The entire disagreement here stems from the word "risk". You perceive COVID as a big risk, contrary to all data. I don't. And COVID cannot hit those percentages (6-10% IFR) simply by its nature. It may have had a chance to hit 3% IFR at the beginning had we not taken measures to prevent it (which I agree were necessary 18 months ago), simply because health care systems might have been overwhelmed more so than they already were. I don't think the current level of threat warrants the reactions and policies we're seeing, however. And as for what distinguishes the current threat level from the threat level in March of 2020, I feel these are the relevant factors:

- Lack of information on transmission method and disease progression back then meant that more stringent measures were warranted as the threat was assessed. We have tons of info now.
- Lack of effective treatment modalities back then - doctors and hospitals were essentially "winging it" and in many cases using medicines and strategies which were later found to be counterproductive. In contrast, there is a wealth of knowledge now about effective treatments.
- Those most susceptible to COVID (the elderly, those with multiple comorbidities, and those whose particular reaction to COVID was very strong) likely died in the first 2-3 waves. This leaves the remaining population less vulnerable from a statistical perspective.
- We are at ~50% full vaccination (~60% one dose) along with a natural immunity prevalence of between 30-50% (note: this comprises both those who contracted and beat COVID as well as those who have T-cell reactivity against C19 despite never having contracted it due to its similarity to other coronaviruses). Granted, there's overlap between these categories - some percentage of those with natural immunity are counted among the vaccinated group. However, it is safe to say that between 55-75% of the populace has some form of immunity at this point.
- The predominant strain these days (Delta), while more contagious, is also less lethal than the already not-so-lethal "classic" COVID.

In light of the above and other considerations, I find the current frenzy and hysteria entirely misguided and unnecessary. This is not even getting into the question of individual rights, the role of government, and which values should be subservient to others in our moral hierarchy.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Nobody_Important]

The loss of taste is a weird one. I have an aunt who had Covid and has been okay for a week or so now, but she swears she still has next to no taste.

 

[Toons]

The vast majority of people have a far greater chance of getting hit by a car than dying of COVID. Let's ban cars. The entire disagreement here stems from the word "risk". You perceive COVID as a big risk, contrary to all data. I don't. And COVID cannot hit those percentages (6-10% IFR) simply by its nature. It may have had a chance to hit 3% IFR at the beginning had we not taken measures to prevent it (which I agree were necessary 18 months ago), simply because health care systems might have been overwhelmed more so than they already were. I don't think the current level of threat warrants the reactions and policies we're seeing, however. And as for what distinguishes the current threat level from the threat level in March of 2020, I feel these are the relevant factors:

- Lack of information on transmission method and disease progression back then meant that more stringent measures were warranted as the threat was assessed. We have tons of info now.
- Lack of effective treatment modalities back then - doctors and hospitals were essentially "winging it" and in many cases using medicines and strategies which were later found to be counterproductive. In contrast, there is a wealth of knowledge now about effective treatments.
- Those most susceptible to COVID (the elderly, those with multiple comorbidities, and those whose particular reaction to COVID was very strong) likely died in the first 2-3 waves. This leaves the remaining population less vulnerable from a statistical perspective.
- We are at ~50% full vaccination (~60% one dose) along with a natural immunity prevalence of between 30-50% (note: this comprises both those who contracted and beat COVID as well as those who have T-cell reactivity against C19 despite never having contracted it due to its similarity to other coronaviruses). Granted, there's overlap between these categories - some percentage of those with natural immunity are counted among the vaccinated group. However, it is safe to say that between 55-75% of the populace has some form of immunity at this point.
- The predominant strain these days (Delta), while more contagious, is also less lethal than the already not-so-lethal "classic" COVID.

In light of the above and other considerations, I find the current frenzy and hysteria entirely misguided and unnecessary. This is not even getting into the question of individual rights, the role of government, and which values should be subservient to others in our moral hierarchy.

The car comparison is sooooo bad. You cant ban this virus.

You're comparing this fight against covid, in concept, involving heavy regulations and government law which can include stripping of freedoms..... to the automobile accident prevention measures we have which are, heavy regulated, involving government law, the violation of which can result in loss of personal freedoms and convenience.

You endanger people with your car to a certain extent? You can't drive anymore. Is that inconvenient? Too bad. You endangered people with your car, so you lose that privledge. Its the same with covid. At this point. Not getting the vaccination is endangering other people. You do that to a certain extent? No, you can't go in that restraint then. You can't work that job then. Is that Inconvenient? Too. Freaking. Bad.

As for your comments about our response to the virus when it first came out, yea we bungled it up. But we bungled it by not taking it seriously ENOUGH. Why should we now, having more knowledge than we did, continue to downplay this thing or treat it like no big deal when that is exactly what got us here the first time??

Finally. The fact that we know this virus mutates. What happens if this thing mutates into something the current vaccine isn't good at all at? What happens if those who are unvaxxed which by your own statements can be up to 30% of the populace at best, start getting sicker? They are making an unwise decision but that doesnt mean they should just die. Im not down with that.

Nows not the time for kiddie gloves. We tried the kiddie gloves and that didn't work all that great.

 

[Toons]

That's actually been your entire life, but you just weren't aware of it.

The risk you dont know is there may hurt you but you can't do anything about that. This is different. Anyone will tell you that. The risk we didn't know was here is here now and we know it. And we can do something about it. If I find out I have an enlarged heart tomorrow at a doctors appointment, my response isn't "well I've lived this long and didn't even notice it so no harm no foul"

 

[MisterFalcon]

That's actually been your entire life, but you just weren't aware of it.

And now there is the additional risk of getting a dangerous but not normally life threatening disease while all the hospitals are full. Full of people who had the choice to not be so ill but thought otherwise.

In the end, regardless of measures, compliance and enforcement, most people will start to adjust theior behaviour once they see the hospitals filling up. Or if you're in a very poor nation where going to a hospital would never be an option for you anyway, bodies piling up at the overwehelmed cemetaries and crematoria.

 

[betrayal]

Now. Seriously. Which side of the argument actually sounds more Nazi- like to you? The people making an active choice to help themselves and others, or the people just thinking about themselves, and not giving a shit about other people?

So yeah… I will fucking judge people who are too damn cowardly, or too damn selfish to go get a little painless jab in their arm to help put a stop to this stupid pandemic. But if you’re fine with people like that… good for you, sport "

See, that's exactly what I mean. You basically assume that unvaccinated people don't give a shit about other people, even though there are millions of unvaccinated people who have done thousands of times more for other people than you ever will.

It's not about right or wrong or who gets vaccinated and who doesn't. It's about your way of thinking, your unbelievable arrogance and your moral elevation, which in the end only leads to hate and division. And the really bad thing is that people like you don't have the self-reflection or the comprehension to realize that.

If you know someone who does not want to be vaccinated, although it would make sense for him or his environment, then you should try to talk respectfully with these people. If that still doesn't help, then that's the way it is.
Obviously, people like you have a hard time not insulting or belittling these people right away. And attention, here comes a spoiler: they are not bad people or complete idiots because of that. In the worst case, they simply made a bad decision.

If the media, politicians and people like you would start to just acknowledge other opinions and question them respectfully instead of yelling and insulting, there would be a lot more people who would want to be vaccinated. But you can't convince anyone, no matter how absurd their position, with a lack of respect and insults.

 

[FunkMiller]

See, that's exactly what I mean. You basically assume that unvaccinated people don't give a shit about other people, even though there are millions of unvaccinated people who have done thousands of times more for other people than you ever will.

It's not about right or wrong or who gets vaccinated and who doesn't. It's about your way of thinking, your unbelievable arrogance and your moral elevation, which in the end only leads to hate and division. And the really bad thing is that people like you don't have the self-reflection or the comprehension to realize that.

If you know someone who does not want to be vaccinated, although it would make sense for him or his environment, then you should try to talk respectfully with these people. If that still doesn't help, then that's the way it is.
Obviously, people like you have a hard time not insulting or belittling these people right away. And attention, here comes a spoiler: they are not bad people or complete idiots because of that. In the worst case, they simply made a bad decision.

If the media, politicians and people like you would start to just acknowledge other opinions and question them respectfully instead of yelling and insulting, there would be a lot more people who would want to be vaccinated. But you can't convince anyone, no matter how absurd their position, with a lack of respect and insults.

Frankly, I’ve spent way too much time trying to be reasonable with people who refuse to get vaccinated for no good reason (not talking about people here who have a decent reason to not get it, such as they are immunocompromised). The fact that no amount of reasonable discourse will shift anti vaxxers from their foolish position is what has lead to my frustration, and sometimes admittedly poor use of language.

People like me have acknowledged other opinions, and have tried very hard to change them, because they are quite stupid opinions, based in irrationality, entitlement and selfishness. And indeed, I have attempted to convince people with soft language, common sense and respect in the past. A lot.

None of it works. Because this is a tiny minority, who will not be shifted from their position. Like flat earthers, or other conspiracy theorists.

I cheerfully admit the whole thing is pointless at this stage though, and there’s no point continuing to rant about it Luckily most people are sensible, so that minority (here in the U.K. anyway) won’t have much of an affect.

I do apologise if I have offended anyone with my choice of language, though. Anti vax ignorance really does get my back up.

 

[DeepBreath87]

You know what else doesn't constitute a life? Living with the constant risk of catching a deadly disease that can end it. The measures to avoid that aren't perfect, but they are sure as heck better than the alternative.

Were not trying to wait til it hits those percentages before we start doing something. Thats the point. You dont wait til your grass is 4 feet tall to whip out the lawnmower.

Are you under the delusion that this virus is ever going away? Or are you advocating for whatever restrictions you think will control the virus to last forever? Because if there is one thing we have seen for certain, it’s that the day you relax the rules, the virus is going to do what it does. So any temporary rules you lay down will only yield temporary results.

You’re going to have to get comfortable with the possibility you could get covid. Assuming your aren’t over 50 and unhealthy, your chancesof needing a hospital or dying were already low. With the vaccine, they are exceedingly low. At this point, covid is a fact of life. Anyone looking for political or public health leaders to get rid of that fact are giving power to people who don’t actually have the ability to solve the problem.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Who goes to reddit for anything but porn?

There’s some decent Linux subreddits, several distros use Reddit as their official forum.

 

[Peggies]

So, to sum this thread up:

 

[ManaByte]

 

[FunkMiller]

So, to sum this thread up:

 

[Jaysen]

Don't be so childish, with your Godwin's Law babbling. I'm clearly stating that people who have zero evidence of something other than some shit they read on social media are idiots who are weighing the world down for the rest of us.

Theyre also the same idiots whining about “untested” and “experimental” vaccines while at the same time praising shit like Hydroxycholorquine and Invectrim. It’s pointless to waste time on the hypocrites.

 

[Jaysen]

Reddit is a liberal hivemind so what did you expect?

Good god you’re dumb.

 

[QSD]

The loss of taste is a weird one. I have an aunt who had Covid and has been okay for a week or so now, but she swears she still has next to no taste.

A colleague of mine got Covid and started watching episodes of The Love Boat apropos of nothing.
I asked her whether it bothered her how corny it was, but she didn't understand what I was talking about.

 

[Methos#1975]

So coronovirus is spreading at work, 3 cases so far this week, and everyone of them were vaccinated. Not one nonvaccinated person has so far exhibited any symptoms at all. And people wonder why we are passing on this "vaccine" and I use that term lightly since this really isn't a vaccine at all. It's just a flu shot and little more. Vaccines are by definition suppose to build a complete immunal response to the targeted viral infection, not half ass work and still allow you to get the virus. Imagine if the polio or small pox vaccine had worked this half assed. I'm not even sure how you are suppose to achieve herd immunity with a vaccine with such a high failure rate.

 

[Jaysen]

So coronovirus is spreading at work, 3 cases so far this week, and everyone of them were vaccinated. Not one nonvaccinated person has so far exhibited any symptoms at all. And people wonder why we are passing on this "vaccine" and I use that term lightly since this really isn't a vaccine at all. It's just a flu shot and little more. Vaccines are by definition suppose to build a complete immunal response to the targeted viral infection, not half ass work and still allow you to get the virus. Imagine if the polio or small pox vaccine had worked this half assed. I'm not even sure how you are suppose to achieve herd immunity with a vaccine with such a high failure rate.

Big brain type shit on display in that post.

 

[ManaByte]

COVID transmission remains high in L.A. County, but surge appears to be leveling off

Although the delta variant of the coronavirus continues to infect thousands of new people each day in Los Angeles County, public health officials said Thursday there’s evidence the surge is reachin…

ktla.com

Fully vaccinated people are hospitalized at a rate of 0.009%, and only 0.0008% have died from the virus, according to the most recent data. Many who become seriously ill have other health issues.

butbutbutbut Israel.

 

[Meicyn]

So coronovirus is spreading at work, 3 cases so far this week, and everyone of them were vaccinated. Not one nonvaccinated person has so far exhibited any symptoms at all. And people wonder why we are passing on this "vaccine" and I use that term lightly since this really isn't a vaccine at all. It's just a flu shot and little more. Vaccines are by definition suppose to build a complete immunal response to the targeted viral infection, not half ass work and still allow you to get the virus. Imagine if the polio or small pox vaccine had worked this half assed. I'm not even sure how you are suppose to achieve herd immunity with a vaccine with such a high failure rate.

lmao

The initial version of the polio vaccine was like, only 65% effective against Type 1 polio, and there were variants. And if you were getting Dr. Salk’s version of the vaccine, you had to get two booster shots. Imagine, getting booster shots! Oh yeah, and then there’s the Cutter incident that resulted in kids getting directly injected with live polio and got kids killed or permanently paralyzed.

Might want to crack open a history book or three.

 

[Methos#1975]

lmao

The initial version of the polio vaccine was like, only 65% effective against Type 1 polio, and there were variants. And if you were getting Dr. Salk’s version of the vaccine, you had to get two booster shots. Imagine, getting booster shots! Oh yeah, and then there’s the Cutter incident that resulted in kids getting directly injected with live polio and got kids killed or permanently paralyzed.

Might want to crack open a history book or three.

Still sounds better than the nonsense we are seeing with this " vaccine".

 

[Deleted member 1159]

lmao

The initial version of the polio vaccine was like, only 65% effective against Type 1 polio, and there were variants. And if you were getting Dr. Salk’s version of the vaccine, you had to get two booster shots. Imagine, getting booster shots! Oh yeah, and then there’s the Cutter incident that resulted in kids getting directly injected with live polio and got kids killed or permanently paralyzed.

Might want to crack open a history book or three.

Bro that vaccine was 120% effective and Mr. Polio developed it in the purest of organic botanical labs and passed it out of his garden truck for free you didn’t even need a needle you just rubbed his CBD balm on the back of your neck and you were immune why can’t we have vaccines like that anymore? Boner pill big pharma is why

 

[Meicyn]

Still sounds better than the nonsense we are seeing with this " vaccine".

Yes, 200,000 midwestern kids getting injected with live polio due to faulty vaccines and getting sick/paralyzed/killed is better than what has happened with the covid vaccine.

lmao this fucking guy

 

[Jaysen]

Still sounds better than the nonsense we are seeing with this " vaccine".

Try to go one post without saying something incredibly dumb. I dare you.

 

[Halo is Back]

Good god you’re dumb.

You have done nothing but call others morons at least on this page. You definitely sound like you are from Reddit. When I try to convince people to get the vaccine I'm not gonna call them morons, I don't think that helps anything.

 

[Thesuffering79]

COVID transmission remains high in L.A. County, but surge appears to be leveling off

Although the delta variant of the coronavirus continues to infect thousands of new people each day in Los Angeles County, public health officials said Thursday there’s evidence the surge is reachin…

ktla.com

butbutbutbut Israel.

I've always said that Israel shows the vaccine peaks and drops off after a while needing more doses. This Delta variant is much weaker than the normal variant at least much weaker than the Lambda variant.

Also those numbers are from when the vaccine is at peak effectiveness.

IN THE ARTICLE ITSELF:

8% of 3000 hospitalized were fully vaccinated.

And of the more than 3,000 people hospitalized from May to the middle of July, only 8% were fully vaccinated, Ferrer said.

1% of the 5.5 million population is fully vaccinated.

But in L.A. County still less than 1% of the roughly 5.5 million people fully vaccinated had tested positive as of Tuesday.

So in this case, fully vaccinated people are 800% more likely to be hospitalized.


BUBUBU my Pfizer sponsored study...


EDIT I made an error.

It is not 800% more likely it is 55 000 people tested postive for covid 19.

So it is 0.5% are hospitalized not 0.009%.

Ill have to find the fully vaccinated to compare.


EDIT 2: Fully vaccinated people in LA county is 5.2 million.

LA County COVID-19 Vaccine Dashboard - LA County Department of Public Health

publichealth.lacounty.gov

~10 million people live in LA county.

So that is ~50% fully vaccinated.

SO that works out to about 11-12 times more likely to get hospitalized if you are unvaccinated.

 

[Jaysen]

You have done nothing but call others morons at least on this page. You definitely sound like you are from Reddit. When I try to convince people to get the vaccine I'm not gonna call them morons, I don't think that helps anything.

I call people who willfully spread misinformation in a sad stupid attempt to get others hurt morons. Dangerous morons. There’s not two sides here. There’s people smart enough to know the vaccine is the way out of this, and then there’s idiots.

 

[Taxexemption]

I call people who willfully spread misinformation in a sad stupid attempt to get others hurt morons. Dangerous morons. There’s not two sides here. There’s people smart enough to know the vaccine is the way out of this, and then there’s idiots.

If it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus aren't you just altering the virus evolutionary path? How much experience do we have with this, and what's the theory that says this is a good thing? Would we even know ahead of time if our actions were creating a more deadly, but equally transmissible virus, which is unlikely to be produced by natural evolution?

 

[DeepBreath87]

I call people who willfully spread misinformation in a sad stupid attempt to get others hurt morons. Dangerous morons. There’s not two sides here. There’s people smart enough to know the vaccine is the way out of this, and then there’s idiots.

Our hero, ladies and gentlemen. Being an asshole to save lives. Captain Douche.

You should try getting your point across in a way that actually isn’t just you repeatedly calling people stupid. Once and a while, maybe. But you literally just call everyone stupid. It’s your go-to response. Not everyone has to agree with you. That guy doesn’t believe in the vaccine? So what? You think he’s in here changing hearts and minds? You can tell someone you disagree with them without acting like a child.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Info from France regarding split between vaccinated and non vaccinated when it comes to hospital admissions:

July 19th-25th: 87% ICU admissions and 83% hospital admissions were of non-vaccinated

 

[Halo is Back]

Info from France regarding split between vaccinated and non vaccinated when it comes to hospital admissions:

July 19th-25th: 87% ICU admissions and 83% hospital admissions were of non-vaccinated

source?

 

[juliushandle]

MSN

www.msn.com

meanwhile, Pfizer alone is set to make 80 billion dollars in revenue this year.

MSN

www.msn.com

Moderna announced boosters for this winter in an investor meeting. Investors!!! not with medical professionals, scientists, or heath care officials.