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[DeepBreath87]

About as retarded as anyone who informs their decision about Covid on what someone like Joe Rogan says (great at BJJ, terrible at epidemiology), whatever he says.

I mean truthfully it’s something I am concerned about. But also know a couple of things:

1) I only have a very basic understanding of how this stuff works. I am concerned that the virus will develop a way around the vaccines via natural selection. But I don’t know nearly enough to say whether that is likely or possible.

2) There is literally nothing I can do about it. I’m not in a position where worrying about that kind of shit is useful. I can’t spend a lot of time worrying about it.

I hope the people in charge know what they’re doing. I kind of assume that if I thought of this, being some nobody, they have thought of it to. But who knows? Hopefully it doesn’t happen. Anyone who lets concerns about future virus mutation stop them from getting the vaccines is making a mistake in my estimation. It’s not that different from the people on the other side of the argument asking for shutdowns because of some future virus mutation.

 

[FunkMiller]

I mean truthfully it’s something I am concerned about. But also know a couple of things:

1) I only have a very basic understanding of how this stuff works. I am concerned that the virus will develop a way around the vaccines via natural selection. But I don’t know nearly enough to say whether that is likely or possible.

2) There is literally nothing I can do about it. I’m not in a position where worrying about that kind of shit is useful. I can’t spend a lot of time worrying about it.

I hope the people in charge know what they’re doing. I kind of assume that if I thought of this, being some nobody, they have thought of it to. But who knows? Hopefully it doesn’t happen. Anyone who lets concerns about future virus mutation stop them from getting the vaccines is making a mistake in my estimation. It’s not that different from the people on the other side of the argument asking for shutdowns because of some future virus mutation.

We’re all definitely laymen when it comes to this topic, and none of us know nearly enough to predict what’s likely to happen.

My main solace when it comes to variants is from precedent. Covid as a respiratory virus is not all that special. It’s just a particularly virulent one. And precedent rather dictates that when it does mutate, it does not do so into a more powerful or dangerous variant. That hasn’t happened with other sars type viruses, so it shouldn’t with this one either.

But, my main strategy is to listen to what I’m being told by independent scientists, in whatever consensus is achieved amongst them. The actual experts. Nobody else. Not politicians, not celebrities, not other people on social media. Because none of us have an understanding of what’s going on that rivals theirs.

 

[Kraz]

We’re all definitely laymen when it comes to this topic, and none of us know nearly enough to predict what’s likely to happen.

My main solace when it comes to variants is from precedent. Covid as a respiratory virus is not all that special. It’s just a particularly virulent one. And precedent rather dictates that when it does mutate, it does not do so into a more powerful or dangerous variant. That hasn’t happened with other sars type viruses, so it shouldn’t with this one either.

But, my main strategy is to listen to what I’m being told by independent scientists, in whatever consensus is achieved amongst them. The actual experts. Nobody else. Not politicians, not celebrities, not other people on social media. Because none of us have an understanding of what’s going on that rivals theirs.

My strategy has been pretty much the same. In the last year compare responses across health regions with numbers making allowances for local flair. Keep up with local mandates. Know what's hurting our public health response and minimize it. Lately with loosening international restrictions been looking more globally at similar nations to see what's shaking out.

Interesting difference in lay people and trust in health authorities and medical technology in different Western nations. Think you mentioned something about it a week ago. It got me recontextualizing what I was reading providing better resolution to look for useful global trends that may be influencing local ones.

One novel thing I'm seeing more clearly is that the understanding of lay people is like modern folk medicine and is still useful as a classification of the actual practices of the public of any given region. In some areas the lay people who trust "nature to takes it's course" medicine (with no fucks given of imposing the risk on others. Usually because of a small inconvenience like mask mandates that's being whipped up into a hero fantasy of bold rebellious independence against some global conspiracy that now skews very far away from immediate covid health concerns and into fucking third world looney land) are a stronger contingent and have more influence over legislated health policy and public response in some areas than medical science authorities. And it shows in their covid numbers. There's other observatons that are more immediate to my region and valuable, but this is more obvious an example.

 

[FunkMiller]

My strategy has been pretty much the same. In the last year compare responses across health regions with numbers making allowances for local flair. Keep up with local mandates. Know what's hurting our public health response and minimize it. Lately with loosening international restrictions been looking more globally at similar nations to see what's shaking out.

Interesting difference in lay people and trust in health authorities and medical technology in different Western nations. Think you mentioned something about it a week ago. It got me recontextualizing what I was reading providing better resolution to look for useful global trends that may be influencing local ones.

One novel thing I'm seeing more clearly is that the understanding of lay people is like modern folk medicine and is still useful as a classification of the actual practices of the public of any given region. In some areas the lay people who trust "nature to takes it's course" medicine (with no fucks given of imposing the risk on others. Usually because of a small inconvenience like mask mandates that's being whipped up into a hero fantasy of bold rebellious independence against some global conspiracy that now skews very far away from immediate covid health concerns and into fucking third world looney land) are a stronger contingent and have more influence over legislated health policy and public response in some areas than medical science authorities. And it shows in their covid numbers. There's other observatons that are more immediate to my region and valuable, but this is more obvious an example.

I definitely think the country of origin has a marked impact on the trust people have in their authority figures. While there is some small anti-vax sentiment here in the U.K, it remains small most probably because our healthcare is 100% free at the point of use. We have no paranoia about being mis-sold treatment due to greed or corruption, because no treatments are ever sold to us. We can trust what our medical professionals are telling us, because their personal income is unaffected by what medicines the prescribe.

Covid has taught me just how hateful, stupid and destructive the US healthcare system is. It’s like something from a third world banana republic. How the whole of America isn’t screaming for free healthcare is beyond me.

If I had to live in America with that system, I’m not sure I would believe a lot of what I’m told either. How can you trust medical advice when it’s so intrinsically linked to money?

All I can say to Americans is that in the case of the Covid vaccine, you are being told the truth by your government, because it’s the same information we’re getting.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[ManaByte]

Bob was in his 70's and was considered high-risk

That's called burying the lede.

 

[Loki]

100 children per week dying from Delta in Indonesia per that tweet above? Dubious. I’d need to see the receipts on that one.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

100 children per week dying from Delta in Indonesia per that tweet above? Dubious. I’d need to see the receipts on that one.

Some context from the article:

Hundreds of children in Indonesia have died from the coronavirus in recent weeks, many of them under age 5, a mortality rate greater than that of any other country and one that challenges the idea that children face minimal risk from Covid-19, doctors say.

The deaths, more than 100 a week this month, have come as Indonesia confronts its biggest surge yet in coronavirus cases over all — and as its leaders face mounting criticism that they have been unprepared and slow to act.

“Our numbers are the highest in the world,” the head of the Indonesian Pediatric Society, Dr. Aman Bhakti Pulungan, said of the death rate. “Why are we not giving the best for our children?”

Based on reports from pediatricians, children now make up 12.5 percent of the country’s confirmed cases, an increase over previous months, said Dr. Aman, who is also the executive director of the International Pediatric Association. More than 150 children died from Covid-19 during the week of July 12 alone, he said, with half the recent deaths involving those younger than 5.

More than 800 children in Indonesia under the age of 18 have died from the virus since the pandemic began, Dr. Aman said, but the majority of those deaths have occurred only in the past month.

“Not only are countries like Indonesia seeing record numbers of children dying from the virus,” Dr. Yasir said, “but we’re also seeing an alarming rise in children missing out on routine vaccinations and nutrition services that are critical for their survival, which should ring major alarm bells.”

Health experts said a number of factors contributed to the high number of deaths among children. Some could be vulnerable to the virus because of underlying health conditions such as malnutrition, obesity, diabetes and heart disease, doctors said.

At the same time, many hospitals have been stretched beyond their limit by the recent surge in cases, with patients waiting in hallways and overflow tents for a bed in a ward to open. Few hospitals are set up to care for children with Covid.

Sounds like a combination of extremely poor nutrition and health standards in general with an overwhelmed and non-functioning health care system.

According to Worldometers their infant mortality rate is 15.9 per 1,000 and deaths under age 5 are 21 per 1,000. By comparison, the US is at 5 per 1,000 and 7 per 1,000 respectively, whereas a healthier country like Japan is at 1.6 and 2.2.

Tragic situation regardless.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"Suddenly, we have this big Delta Variant," said Katie Ivey Baptist Health System, the regional director of bereavement services for Baptist Health System. "So I think people are ready to be with their, their friends, neighbors, families, and, and this is just such a shock to them that this has happened again."

I'm starting to get the impression that most of America did not expect we would get another wave, and that's sad. Anyone paying attention to the rest of the world could have anticipated it months ago.

 

[RoboFu]

Dr. Anthony Fauci: Vaccine prevents COVID-19 from mutating​

 

[ManaByte]

Dr. Anthony Fauci: Vaccine prevents COVID-19 from mutating​

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Dr. Anthony Fauci: Vaccine prevents COVID-19 from mutating​

He actually does not say what is in the headline at all. He says, "a virus cannot mutate unless it is replicated." Yeah, no shit. Unfortunately...

 

[ManaByte]

If the US goes back into lockdown, antivaxxers spreading bullshit on social media deserve a swift kick to the balls. Repeatedly.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If the US goes back into lockdown, antivaxxers spreading bullshit on social media deserve a swift kick to the balls. Repeatedly.

You're just angry and looking for someone to lash out against. It's not healthy.

In your expert opinion, what percentage of vaccination would have kept the Delta wave acceptably in check?

 

[ManaByte]

You're just angry and looking for someone to lash out against. It's not healthy.

It's also not healthy regurgitating bullshit on the internet to dissuade people from getting a fucking shot.

 

[M.W.]

I see many a school closing down/going virtual soon.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I see many a school closing down/going virtual soon.

Kids in public school fucked for another year. Round and round we go.

 

[Razorback]

Our species is at war with a foreign enemy. We have the means to make it go extinct and it's a fucking tragic shame we can't ever work together even for a moment, all in the name of ideology.

Politics is the real mindkiller.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I see many a school closing down/going virtual soon.

Especially if the cdc bends the knee to the teachers union again.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

We have the means to make it go extinct

No, we do not.

 

[synchronicity]

No, we do not.

What? The common flu was eradicated eons ago.

 

[ManaByte]

Untold number of Americans getting COVID-19 boosters without FDA approval

When the delta variant started spreading, Gina Welch decided not to take any chances: She got a third, booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by going to a clinic and telling them it was her first sh…

ktla.com

When the delta variant started spreading, Gina Welch decided not to take any chances: She got a third, booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by going to a clinic and telling them it was her first shot.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Untold number of Americans getting COVID-19 boosters without FDA approval

When the delta variant started spreading, Gina Welch decided not to take any chances: She got a third, booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by going to a clinic and telling them it was her first sh…

ktla.com

Welch, a graduate student from Maine who is studying chemical engineering, said she has kept tabs on scientific studies about COVID-19 and follows several virologists and epidemiologists on social media who have advocated for boosters.

“I’m going to follow these experts and I’m going to go protect myself,” said Welch

They're on both sides of the divide now! Horse paste for some, monthly injections for others.

 

[12Goblins]

Vocal anti-vaccine broadcaster dies from COVID-19 complications

Former South Florida talk show host Dick Farrel, known and beloved by fans for his over-the-top right-wing opinions, has died from complications from COVID-19.

www.wptv.com

I guess this is another texan radio show host that also recently died after being admitted for covid

also we are now laser focusing our prayers directly into Phil's [valentine] lungs

these people are helpless

"human engineered virus designed to kill conservatives" is only a matter of time

 

[caffeware]

 

[Rentahamster]

It would really help people make more informed decisions if we could know the number of unvaccinated vs vaccinated people who have died in the last 3 months. Is anything like that available?

Since no one answered your question (I think), here's the answer.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections Reported to CDC ...

COVID-19 vaccines are a critical tool for controlling the ongoing global pandemic.

www.cdc.gov

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections Reported to CDC — United States, January 1–April 30, 2021​

A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021. Among these cases, 6,446 (63%) occurred in females, and the median patient age was 58 years (interquartile range = 40–74 years). Based on preliminary data, 2,725 (27%) vaccine breakthrough infections were asymptomatic, 995 (10%) patients were known to be hospitalized, and 160 (2%) patients died. Among the 995 hospitalized patients, 289 (29%) were asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason unrelated to COVID-19. The median age of patients who died was 82 years (interquartile range = 71–89 years); 28 (18%) decedents were asymptomatic or died from a cause unrelated to COVID-19. Sequence data were available from 555 (5%) reported cases, 356 (64%) of which were identified as SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern,§ including B.1.1.7 (199; 56%), B.1.429 (88; 25%), B.1.427 (28; 8%), P.1 (28; 8%), and B.1.351 (13; 4%).

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

According to this table, there were 104,946 COVID deaths in January 2021, 47,573 deaths in February, 22,758 deaths in March, and 18,422 deaths in April, which is a total of 193,699 COVID deaths from January 1–April 30, 2021. Only 160 of those deaths were among vaccinated individuals. Big difference.

Note - the numbers in the table don't exactly match up to the numbers from the daily tracker https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendsdeaths

That's probably due to changes in categorization or clarifications after the fact. I'm not sure which one is the more accurate or up to date one, but I'm not going to add up every single death on the daily tracker, and will stick with the monthly table. If you're curious, when I add up all the deaths in May from the daily tracker I get 15,508, but the monthly chart says 14,523.

Here is more recent data:

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.

www.cdc.gov

Hospitalized or fatal COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of August 2, 2021​

If we subtract the 160 patients from January to April, then we get 1,507 - 160 = 1,347 deaths from May to July.

Looking at the NCHS table again, we have 14,523 COVID deaths in May, 7.584 in June, and 6.571 in July, for a total of 28,678 deaths from May to July.

28,678 total deaths, and only 1,347 of those deaths were from vaccinated individuals.


Here is data that has been gathered and organized by Kaiser, who looked at the individual states' reporting. 19 states report some data on breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States | KFF

We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and what those data may tell us.

www.kff.org

We therefore reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and what those data may tell us. We only used data from official state sources (we did not include data available only in news media reports, for example). Where a state did not provide comparable data on overall COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, or deaths reported over the period in which it captured breakthrough events, we obtained data on cases and deaths from the Johns Hopkins University COVID-19 Dashboard and on hospitalizations from the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services for the appropriate period (see methods for more detail).

Importantly, not all hospitalizations and deaths of those fully vaccinated and diagnosed with COVID-19 are due to COVID-19 or have a known cause at the time of reporting. The CDC reports that as of July 19, of 5,601 hospitalized breakthrough cases, 27% were asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19 and of 1,141 fatal cases, 26% were asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19. States differ in whether they provide this detail. DC, for example, reports that as of July 11, 50% of hospitalized breakthrough cases were due to COVID-19, 19% were not, and 31% were of unknown reason. However, few states made these distinctions. Where they did, we only included breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19. In other cases, some of these breakthrough events may be due to causes other than COVID-19.

The data reported from these states indicate that breakthrough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are extremely rare events among those who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 (see Figure 1). The rate of breakthrough cases reported among those fully vaccinated is well below 1% in all reporting states, ranging from 0.01% in Connecticut to 0.29% in Alaska.

• The hospitalization rate among fully vaccinated people with COVID-19 ranged from effectively zero (0.00%) in California, Delaware, D.C., Indiana, New Jersey, New Mexico, Vermont, and Virginia to 0.06% in Arkansas. (Note: Hospitalization may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)
• The rates of death among fully vaccinated people with COVID-19 were even lower, effectively zero (0.00%) in all but two reporting states, Arkansas and Michigan where they were 0.01%. (Note: Deaths may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)

In figure 2, they show what the difference in numbers is between the deaths of fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

• Almost all (more than 9 in 10) COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated, in those states reporting breakthrough data (see Figure 2).
  • The reported share of COVID-19 cases among those not fully vaccinated ranged from 94.1% in Arizona to 99.85% Connecticut.
  • The share of hospitalizations among those with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from in 95.02% in Alaska to 99.93% in New Jersey. (Note: Hospitalization may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)
  • The share of deaths among people with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from to 96.91% in Montana to 99.91% in New Jersey. (Note: Deaths may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)

Note that as more people get vaccinated, the share of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths accounted for by unvaccinated people will tend to fall, since there will be fewer unvaccinated people in the population. That will be true even if infection, hospitalization, and death from COVID-19 is still very rare among vaccinated people.


If you look at Table 1 in the link, you can see the individual state by state reporting of vaccinated death numbers and unvaccinated death numbers. For example, from January to July, Alaska had 86 total deaths from COVID, and only 2 of those were from vaccinated people. California had 38,154 deaths from COVID during that same time period, and only 93 of them were from vaccinated people. Indiana had 4,574 total COVID deaths, and only 46 of those were from unvaccinated people.


In summary, the vaccine greatly increases your chance of survival by a helluva lot. The vast majority of people being infected, hospitalized, and killed by this virus are unvaccinated people.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

In figure 2, they show what the difference in numbers is between the deaths of fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

• Almost all (more than 9 in 10) COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated, in those states reporting breakthrough data (see Figure 2).
  • The reported share of COVID-19 cases among those not fully vaccinated ranged from 94.1% in Arizona to 99.85% Connecticut.
  • The share of hospitalizations among those with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from in 95.02% in Alaska to 99.93% in New Jersey. (Note: Hospitalization may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)
  • The share of deaths among people with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from to 96.91% in Montana to 99.91% in New Jersey. (Note: Deaths may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)

All of the observation periods start in December or January. This is preposterous.

I must remind you that there were 13.6M cases and 254,477 deaths between Jan 1, 2021 and July 1, 2021. 76% of these cases and 80% of the deaths took place in the months of January, February, and March. On April 1st, just under 17% of the US population was fully vaccinated.

I simply don't understand what you and so many bodies in the US are trying to gain by presenting the data in this way.

 

[RoboFu]

Since no one answered your question (I think), here's the answer.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections Reported to CDC ...

COVID-19 vaccines are a critical tool for controlling the ongoing global pandemic.

www.cdc.gov

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections Reported to CDC — United States, January 1–April 30, 2021​

A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021. Among these cases, 6,446 (63%) occurred in females, and the median patient age was 58 years (interquartile range = 40–74 years). Based on preliminary data, 2,725 (27%) vaccine breakthrough infections were asymptomatic, 995 (10%) patients were known to be hospitalized, and 160 (2%) patients died. Among the 995 hospitalized patients, 289 (29%) were asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason unrelated to COVID-19. The median age of patients who died was 82 years (interquartile range = 71–89 years); 28 (18%) decedents were asymptomatic or died from a cause unrelated to COVID-19. Sequence data were available from 555 (5%) reported cases, 356 (64%) of which were identified as SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern,§ including B.1.1.7 (199; 56%), B.1.429 (88; 25%), B.1.427 (28; 8%), P.1 (28; 8%), and B.1.351 (13; 4%).

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

According to this table, there were 104,946 COVID deaths in January 2021, 47,573 deaths in February, 22,758 deaths in March, and 18,422 deaths in April, which is a total of 193,699 COVID deaths from January 1–April 30, 2021. Only 160 of those deaths were among vaccinated individuals. Big difference.

Note - the numbers in the table don't exactly match up to the numbers from the daily tracker https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendsdeaths

That's probably due to changes in categorization or clarifications after the fact. I'm not sure which one is the more accurate or up to date one, but I'm not going to add up every single death on the daily tracker, and will stick with the monthly table. If you're curious, when I add up all the deaths in May from the daily tracker I get 15,508, but the monthly chart says 14,523.

Here is more recent data:

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.

www.cdc.gov

Hospitalized or fatal COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of August 2, 2021​

If we subtract the 160 patients from January to April, then we get 1,507 - 160 = 1,347 deaths from May to July.

Looking at the NCHS table again, we have 14,523 COVID deaths in May, 7.584 in June, and 6.571 in July, for a total of 28,678 deaths from May to July.

28,678 total deaths, and only 1,347 of those deaths were from vaccinated individuals.


Here is data that has been gathered and organized by Kaiser, who looked at the individual states' reporting. 19 states report some data on breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States | KFF

We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and what those data may tell us.

www.kff.org

We therefore reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and what those data may tell us. We only used data from official state sources (we did not include data available only in news media reports, for example). Where a state did not provide comparable data on overall COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, or deaths reported over the period in which it captured breakthrough events, we obtained data on cases and deaths from the Johns Hopkins University COVID-19 Dashboard and on hospitalizations from the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services for the appropriate period (see methods for more detail).

Importantly, not all hospitalizations and deaths of those fully vaccinated and diagnosed with COVID-19 are due to COVID-19 or have a known cause at the time of reporting. The CDC reports that as of July 19, of 5,601 hospitalized breakthrough cases, 27% were asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19 and of 1,141 fatal cases, 26% were asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19. States differ in whether they provide this detail. DC, for example, reports that as of July 11, 50% of hospitalized breakthrough cases were due to COVID-19, 19% were not, and 31% were of unknown reason. However, few states made these distinctions. Where they did, we only included breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19. In other cases, some of these breakthrough events may be due to causes other than COVID-19.

The data reported from these states indicate that breakthrough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are extremely rare events among those who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 (see Figure 1). The rate of breakthrough cases reported among those fully vaccinated is well below 1% in all reporting states, ranging from 0.01% in Connecticut to 0.29% in Alaska.

• The hospitalization rate among fully vaccinated people with COVID-19 ranged from effectively zero (0.00%) in California, Delaware, D.C., Indiana, New Jersey, New Mexico, Vermont, and Virginia to 0.06% in Arkansas. (Note: Hospitalization may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)
• The rates of death among fully vaccinated people with COVID-19 were even lower, effectively zero (0.00%) in all but two reporting states, Arkansas and Michigan where they were 0.01%. (Note: Deaths may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)

In figure 2, they show what the difference in numbers is between the deaths of fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

• Almost all (more than 9 in 10) COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated, in those states reporting breakthrough data (see Figure 2).
  • The reported share of COVID-19 cases among those not fully vaccinated ranged from 94.1% in Arizona to 99.85% Connecticut.
  • The share of hospitalizations among those with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from in 95.02% in Alaska to 99.93% in New Jersey. (Note: Hospitalization may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)
  • The share of deaths among people with COVID-19 who are not fully vaccinated ranged from to 96.91% in Montana to 99.91% in New Jersey. (Note: Deaths may or may not have been due to COVID-19.)

Note that as more people get vaccinated, the share of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths accounted for by unvaccinated people will tend to fall, since there will be fewer unvaccinated people in the population. That will be true even if infection, hospitalization, and death from COVID-19 is still very rare among vaccinated people.


If you look at Table 1 in the link, you can see the individual state by state reporting of vaccinated death numbers and unvaccinated death numbers. For example, from January to July, Alaska had 86 total deaths from COVID, and only 2 of those were from vaccinated people. California had 38,154 deaths from COVID during that same time period, and only 93 of them were from vaccinated people. Indiana had 4,574 total COVID deaths, and only 46 of those were from unvaccinated people.


In summary, the vaccine greatly increases your chance of survival by a helluva lot. The vast majority of people being infected, hospitalized, and killed by this virus are unvaccinated people.

Good info … but It’s pretty useless trying to convince some here. Just put them on ignore and hope no one listens to them.

 

[L0la H4vana]

Why would anyone trust their government enough to put experimental vaccines into their bodies? That's like playing russian roulette with a bunch of war criminals.

It's all just massive mind control and they're looking to see how far they can take it. Does it exist? Yeah? Has it killed people? Yeah. Is that any reason to lock everything down and start another pro and anti vaxx war? Not in my book. Plus the numbers are being tampered with, just like every news site is pushing their vaccine propaganda down your throats. Antivaxxers are dying and so sorry! 'I was so wrong man' etc. I mean shove it up your ass.
Jennifer Anniston kicking unvaxxed people out of her life! Wow! Totally not a sell out like most of the celebs.

This whole hivemind mentality has got to stop. This whole thing is really not as serious or deadly if your immune system is good. And locking people in their houses and out of establishments and creating another segregation after the bullshit black vs white bullshit is just another cherry on top of the shit cake they're trying to pass off as chocolate. You don't even know what the effects of the vaccine are in the longterm, you're just making them handfuls of money. And now they engineered another deadlier strain so everyone will get manipulated into getting a booster top up! Jesus Christ how many chemicals do you want to put in your body because the government and your favorite celebs say it's good for you!
Or no wait they actually don't! They can't guarantee the outcome several years from now. But at least the virus won't kill you! ...right? Oh nevermind, that's out the window too now that some vaccinated people are actually getting Covid anyway!

Anyway that's just my feelings on this subject. No offense. It's like people are so afraid to die they can't even live and stick to basic human rights. If you want this go for it. If you don't, don't. And don't get mindcontrolled and manipulated by the media and influencers.

There's just one more thing i want to mention: in some countries they actually mandated this vaccine to healthcare workers and there are some huge protests going on about that. I don't know if the news is showing that and getting the numbers right. Reuters first report showed 5.000 instead of 50.000 but i think the last couple of articles have been more correct. Didn't check up on that, I'm tired of bullshit.

Just check things because they lie. It's really not hard to tell. That and they use every strategic manipulation technique in the book.

Here's a good video from a scientist who would not make the mainstream news: https://digitalwarriorproductions.c...4rKLTWuDAofbeJx_QQTC_NN3h3FLQF6WEcEKKYMHplu3U

Just check it from 14 mins in if it's too long.

 

[ManaByte]

Why would anyone trust their government enough to put experimental vaccines into their bodies?

 

[Rentahamster]

All of the observation periods start in December or January. This is preposterous.

It's preposterous to start collecting data about the affects of the vaccine once the vaccine rollout starts?

I must remind you that there were 13.6M cases and 254,477 deaths between Jan 1, 2021 and July 1, 2021. 76% of these cases and 80% of the deaths took place in the months of January, February, and March. On April 1st, just under 17% of the US population was fully vaccinated.

I don't need reminding of that, thanks. There's always going to be differences in the share of the population who are vaccinated and who aren't. I provided the data for the observatory period from January, February, and March (and April). 17% of the total population were vaccinated. Assuming the vaccine has no effect, then 17% of the COVID deaths should have been vaccinated people too right? (ignoring the skew towards older people and assuming the vaccine distribution among the general population and COVID deaths are similar enough). Well, 193,699 COVID deaths total, and 160 of those deaths being from vaccinated people, that gives a share of 0.08%. That's a lot less than 17%.

Additionally, if you look at the data from the UK, more and more people who are being hospitalized are vaccinated. However, that's because the majority of people in the UK are vaccinated, and that number will only go up. What is interesting, however, is to note that while vaccinated people are the majority in the UK general population, among hospitalized patients with COVID, they are the minority, which means the vaccine is having a protective effect.

I simply don't understand what you and so many bodies in the US are trying to gain by presenting the data in this way.

Because it's accurate and it reflects reality. DeepBreath87 wanted to know vaccinated deaths vs unvaccinated deaths in a given time period and I gave it to him. I also provided additional data in different ways so that there are multiple ways of understanding this. I accounted for different time periods that have different proportions of the population being vaccinated in order to address that very issue you bring up. There's many accurate ways of doing the math here, and the math bears out.

 

[Rentahamster]

Good info … but It’s pretty useless trying to convince some here. Just put them on ignore and hope no one listens to them.

I'm not going to say it's never useless, but logic, reason, science, and discourse are ideals we should all try to emphasize, especially in trying times such as these.

 

[synchronicity]

The vast majority of people being infected, hospitalized, and killed by this virus are unvaccinated people.

So all those in favor of mandatory vaccinations for everyone should just let things play out. If you think those who choose not to be vaccinated for covid are the scourge of the Earth, then you should be anti-passport. Let us die.

My biggest issue with all of this isn't the differing points of view on the vaccine or its effectiveness. I don't care if people do or don't get the vaccine. My main issue is the granting of power to the government that cedes control of our own bodies to an entity that is bumbling and incompetent at best, and corrupt to the core at worst. Why *everyone* (pro/anti covid vaccine or uncertain) isn't outraged at the idea of government intervention in regards to authority over our own physical bodies is beyond me. If a line isn't drawn at authority over your own physical form, then there are truly no limits to government power/abuse. The notion of freedom is forever obliterated, and for what?!? A virus that has an incredibly high survival rate. Something is *truly* rotten in Denmark.

 

[FunkMiller]

Why would anyone trust their government enough to put experimental vaccines into their bodies? That's like playing russian roulette with a bunch of war criminals.

Any cogent argument in the essay you just wrote is completely undermined by the moronic assertion that the Covid vaccines are experimental. It is the cry of the staunch anti vaxxer, and any opinions you may have on the subject are rendered completely moot.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's preposterous to start collecting data about the affects of the vaccine once the vaccine rollout starts?

There's no problem with the collection. It's how the data are being presented that is the problem.

I don't need reminding of that, thanks. There's always going to be differences in the share of the population who are vaccinated and who aren't. I provided the data for the observatory period from January, February, and March (and April). 17% of the total population were vaccinated. Assuming the vaccine has no effect, then 17% of the COVID deaths should have been vaccinated people too right?

No, because it was 17% on April 1st, not throughout the entire observation period. It went from 0 to 1.7% by the end of January and in the same month, 45% of cases and 39% of deaths for the entire observation period had already occurred. We reached 7.4% full vaccination at the end of February, but by then already 63% of cases and 66% of deaths had occurred.

Additionally, if you look at the data from the UK, more and more people who are being hospitalized are vaccinated. However, that's because the majority of people in the UK are vaccinated, and that number will only go up. What is interesting, however, is to note that while vaccinated people are the majority in the UK general population, among hospitalized patients with COVID, they are the minority, which means the vaccine is having a protective effect.

Yeah, I've been looking at the data from England quite a bit (not the entire UK, since the England data is more granular and represents over 80% of the population of the UK) here and here most recently. Anyway, I'm not saying the vaccines do not have a protective effect. That would be an absolute disaster if true.

Because it's accurate and it reflects reality. DeepBreath87 wanted to know vaccinated deaths vs unvaccinated deaths in a given time period and I gave it to him. I also provided additional data in different ways so that there are multiple ways of understanding this. I accounted for different time periods that have different proportions of the population being vaccinated in order to address that very issue you bring up. There's many accurate ways of doing the math here, and the math bears out.

It entirely depends on how you're presenting the data. Breakthrough infections, hospitalizations, and deaths have changed dramatically with Delta (or possibly as a factor of waning efficacy) as we are seeing in the data from other countries throughout the world. Including data from our last wave when a different variant was dominant and when vaccination was almost non-existent for the majority of the population skews the data when discussing the current circumstances.

 

[Algan]

I haven't been vaccinated yet because my country isn't starting to vaccinate people my age group. I hope to be vaccinated with Pfizer by next month.

 

[Rentahamster]

There's no problem with the collection. It's how the data are being presented that is the problem.



No, because it was 17% on April 1st, not throughout the entire observation period. It went from 0 to 1.7% by the end of January and in the same month, 45% of cases and 39% of deaths for the entire observation period had already occurred. We reached 7.4% full vaccination at the end of February, but by then already 63% of cases and 66% of deaths had occurred.



Yeah, I've been looking at the data from England quite a bit (not the entire UK, since the England data is more granular and represents over 80% of the population of the UK) here and here most recently. Anyway, I'm not saying the vaccines do not have a protective effect. That would be an absolute disaster if true.



It entirely depends on how you're presenting the data. Breakthrough infections, hospitalizations, and deaths have changed dramatically with Delta (or possibly as a factor of waning efficacy) as we are seeing in the data from other countries throughout the world. Including data from our last wave when a different variant was dominant and when vaccination was almost non-existent for the majority of the population skews the data when discussing the current circumstances.

What, specifically, is the problem with which I present the data? I can only work with what I got. I don't have month to month data for breakthrough deaths. The most I can give you is the first 4 months and the last 3. If there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

What is the main point that is lacking due to how I present this information and what is your solution to remedying this? If you want to see how the vaccines are faring against the new variants, there are already studies that investigate that, however that was not the scope of this post or the underlying request for this information.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What, specifically, is the problem with which I present the data? I can only work with what I got. I don't have month to month data for breakthrough deaths. The most I can give you is the first 4 months and the last 3. If there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

What is the main point that is lacking due to how I present this information and what is your solution to remedying this? If you want to see how the vaccines are faring against the new variants, there are already studies that investigate that, however that was not the scope of this post or the underlying request for this information.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually didn't even read all of your post and just responded when I saw yet another chart using data going back to before even 1% of the population was even vaccinated to make the absurd claim that over 90% of cases, etc. are among the unvaccinated as if that continues to be the case. Apologies for not following the conversation.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm gonna be honest. I actually didn't even read all of your post and just responded when I saw yet another chart using data going back to before even 1% of the population was even vaccinated to make the absurd claim that over 90% of cases, etc. are among the unvaccinated as if that continues to be the case. Apologies for not following the conversation.

The chart was about deaths, not cases.

As far as whether that's still not the case...

From mid-July: https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/

As the Delta variant continues its rapid spread in Los Angeles County, Dr. Christina Ghaly says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals.

"To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," Dr. Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated."

State and county data shows the highly contagious Delta variant is quickly spreading among those who have not yet received a COVID-19 vaccine.

From early July: https://www.baltimoresun.com/corona...0210707-7zugtntgifg4pomlrjy4lmjhnq-story.html

Of the nearly 100 people who died of COVID-19 in Maryland last month, all were not vaccinated against the disease, state health officials say.
In addition, 95% of newly infected people in Maryland and 93% of those requiring hospitalization were unvaccinated, according to a tweet from Mike Ricci, spokesman for Gov. Larry Hogan.

And then from my post:

Looking at the NCHS table again, we have 14,523 COVID deaths in May, 7.584 in June, and 6.571 in July, for a total of 28,678 deaths from May to July.

28,678 total deaths, and only 1,347 of those deaths were from vaccinated individuals.

1,347/14,523 X 100 = 9.3%, which means in the last 3 months, over 90% of the COVID deaths were from unvaccinated people.

 

[DeepBreath87]

The chart was about deaths, not cases.

As far as whether that's still not the case...

From mid-July: https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/



From early July: https://www.baltimoresun.com/corona...0210707-7zugtntgifg4pomlrjy4lmjhnq-story.html



And then from my post:


1,347/14,523 X 100 = 9.3%, which means in the last 3 months, over 90% of the COVID deaths were from unvaccinated people.

I appreciate the effort. This kind of information is reassuring. Sometimes it’s hard to get a sense of things. There is just so much media noise in every direction.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The chart was about deaths, not cases.

The chart was, but I was also responding to this part of your post which I assume used the same data source as the chart about deaths.

Almost all (more than 9 in 10) COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated, in those states reporting breakthrough data

 

[Rentahamster]

The chart was, but I was also responding to this part of your post which I assume used the same data source as the chart about deaths.

I see that you think it's misleading, and while it's true that over the course of the year vaccine rates have changed, and the prevalence of variants has changed, and the degree of infectiousness of those variants has changed, the overall efficacy of vaccines (they're still mostly effective at preventing infection and serious injury) and their recommendation of usage (it's still a good idea to get them since the benefits heavily outweight the risks) hasn't.

It's not misleading because the dates of the data collection are clearly shown, and I also gave examples of how even in recent months, there is still clear evidence that most of the casualties are overwhelmingly on the side of the unvaccinated. Despite your misgivings about the presentation of the data, it still is accurate, true, and real.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I see that you think it's misleading, and while it's true that over the course of the year vaccine rates have changed, and the prevalence of variants has changed, and the degree of infectiousness of those variants has changed, the overall efficacy of vaccines (they're still mostly effective at preventing infection and serious injury) and their recommendation of usage (it's still a good idea to get them since the benefits heavily outweight the risks) hasn't.

It's not misleading because the dates of the data collection are clearly shown, and I also gave examples of how even in recent months, there is still clear evidence that most of the casualties are overwhelmingly on the side of the unvaccinated. Despite your misgivings about the presentation of the data, it still is accurate, true, and real.

Saying "almost all (more than 9 in 10) COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated" is misleading when citing data in which at least half of the cases, hospitalizations, and deaths occurred before even 5% of the population was vaccinated.

I do not think the vaccines are mostly effective or even particularly good at preventing infection, at least with the Delta variant, and I believe that will only become clearer as time goes on. With that said, I am not denying that there is definitely a protective effect against severe symptoms, needing to be hospitalized, and death that appears to scale up with age.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

If the US goes back into lockdown, antivaxxers spreading bullshit on social media deserve a swift kick to the balls. Repeatedly.

You first, statist bootlicker.

 

[luffie]

I'm not going to say it's never useless, but logic, reason, science, and discourse are ideals we should all try to emphasize, especially in trying times such as these.

I just want to say, your effort to keep on posting saner logical response is commendable. People like me lurk, because we don't have the strength to debate with people who respond with strawman and whataboutism when it comes to the necessity of vaccine. Keep up the good job.

The world isn't America, not everyone is watching CNN/Fox, but the whole world is in a pandemic right now. Spinning it into issues of mind control & rights is just mind boggling to anyone outside of USA.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I just want to say, your effort to keep on posting saner logical response is commendable. People like me lurk, because we don't have the strength to debate with people who respond with strawman and whataboutism when it comes to the necessity of vaccine. Keep up the good job.

The world isn't America, not everyone is watching CNN/Fox, but the whole world is in a pandemic right now. Spinning it into issues of mind control & rights is just mind boggling to anyone outside of USA.

Oh good, thanks for speaking for the whole world outside of the US, I know we have silly notions of rights to choose what gets injected into our bodies but good to know the whole rest of the world doesn’t care about that. Probably why outside of the US its a 100% vaccination rate. If only you had the strength to argue your points we might just solve this thing.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Spinning it into issues of mind control & rights is just mind boggling to anyone outside of USA.

270 000 people protested in France yesterday because of ‘muh rights’.

 

[FunkMiller]

Oh good, thanks for speaking for the whole world outside of the US, I know we have silly notions of rights to choose what gets injected into our bodies but good to know the whole rest of the world doesn’t care about that. Probably why outside of the US its a 100% vaccination rate. If only you had the strength to argue your points we might just solve this thing.

Anecdotal, but I know people across the western world thanks to my job and my background, and in no other country is there anything like the levels of anti vax silliness that infects America. Yes, everywhere always has some loons who will listen to anything they hear on social media, but America has disproportionately more, it seems.

And as I’ve previously pointed out, the third world US healthcare system must have a huge amount to do with that. It’s easily the worst in the developed world. Paranoia, misinformation and distrust are rampant in a system that puts money before patients.

Never mind Covid, America’s biggest disease is this weird idea that the country is somehow the best in the world. The one with the most ‘freedom’. Because it’s not. Not when it comes to healthcare and public safety. It’s at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Anecdotal, but I know people across the western world thanks to my job and my background, and in no other country is there anything like the levels of anti vax silliness that infects America. Yes, everywhere always has some loons who will listen to anything they hear on social media, but America has disproportionately more, it seems.

And as I’ve previously pointed out, the third world US healthcare system must have a huge amount to do with that. It’s easily the worst in the developed world. Paranoia, misinformation and distrust are rampant in a system that puts money before patients.

Never mind Covid, America’s biggest disease is this weird idea that the country is somehow the best in the world. The one with the most ‘freedom’. Because it’s not. Not when it comes to healthcare and public safety. It’s at the bottom of the barrel.

Wow that’s interesting because most Aussies I’ve met are really cool but you seem intent on being a sanctimonious asshole. Maybe it’s a you problem?