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[Ellery]

This thread (and many others like it elsewhere) are becoming fascinating insights into human psychology, the more proof emerges about how effective and safe the vaccines are. Those who choose to believe that the vaccines are either dangerous, ineffective or both, are very much starting to thrash around the topic, looking for ways to be angry at those of us who were, and always have been, right about this because we trust in the science.

Indeed.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This might be slightly off topic, but there was something I was wrong about recently and I was so sure I was right about it, but it was proven to me that I was wrong and my assumptions were wrong and it is vital to see that happening and very humbling too. Sometimes it can be addicting and easy to be a contrarian and want to be right based on your gut feeling, but it is much better to trust other human beings who are a lot smarter than us on matters that they have dedicated their lives to. When it comes to science a great deal of people forget that science is constantly evolving and looking for the truth and not claiming that it is perfect and knows the truth.

The internet can be a dark and deceiving place depending on where you go and echo chambers full of confirmation bias make it very hard for uneducated people to escape and admit they are wrong, especially after a 4 year stint of a person that basically brainwashed people into believing that the media is fake and wrong.

At some point some self reflection is needed. One assumption and belief easily leads to another and when it starts with doubting every person then it helps a lot to look at what group of people you surround yourself with. It can be exciting to belief that a global conspiracy is happening that involves all scientists and governments of this world (for whatever reason), but reality is often much more boring and less exciting than that.

It helps a lot to slow down for a moment and ask yourself "maybe I am just wrong and the amount of assumptions I have to make are actually a big big stretch to confirm my bias". Think about what would be next? Flat Earth? Lizard people? The way you look at those crazy conspiracy theorists is the same way vaccinated people look at anti vax people.

The amount of data and proof that we have heavily suggests that the vaccines are helping and saving lives and our only shot at making life return to normalcy. At some point you are not a resilient wolf in a world of sheep, but just an actual idiot fooling yourself because of pride. Even the owner of this website, who is an open minded intelligent person that looks at both sides, had to come to this thread to tell anti vax people they are idiots.

 

[L0la H4vana]

This thread (and many others like it elsewhere) are becoming fascinating insights into human psychology, the more proof emerges about how effective and safe the vaccines are. Those who choose to believe that the vaccines are either dangerous, ineffective or both, are very much starting to thrash around the topic, looking for ways to be angry at those of us who were, and always have been, right about this because we trust in the science.

Angry? I hope to god I'm wrong about all this and that the vaccines are safe even though the powers that be have a terrible track record of telling the truth and caring about people. I mean....i can't even say that without cracking my teeth. Look at the wars and the manipulation and the lies and the coverups. look at what wikileaks has dug up. I mean for the love of god...these people are psychopaths and we are just their sheep. In the end it's just about what pays them the most, not about how many people die or get ill.

Which at this point if you don't see it you are simply refusing to look.

The news is biased as hell. The main problem is that no one is getting unfiltered information. If you want to see the other side of the coin you have to start looking outside of the mainstream news and startpages and that in and of itsself is insane. We should be getting both sides, ALL sides, unfiltered. But not only is it filtered, if you do see something from 'the other side' it is only to be made fun of and skewed to fit the current agenda which is get everyone on these vaccines as quickly as possible! (Before shit hits the fan?)
Where are the normal healthy discussions? Where is critical thought?

What are the results? We can only speculate because they could pop up in the longterm. What are the results now? They are filtered but if you look you can see that these vaccines are not like regular vaccines. They are causing way more deaths and health problems than regular longterm tested vaccines.

And thus are experimental and thus unethical.

And it is normal to check people for vaccination passports when they go out for dinner? Do you WANT to live in a totalitarian state?

I'll just quote this from Persona 5 of all places:

Question: Where does totalitarianism take things a step further than authoritarianism?

Answer: Controlling public thought.

And that is EXACTLY what us happening in the media right now. On every fucking site. Check outside the box and you are labelled as a complete nutcase because that's what the media is telling you all other thoughts and opinions are.

If you think you are not being manipulated on a global scale...think again.

 

[FunkMiller]

The two posts directly above this one are probably the most eloquent and accurate encapsulation of the whole issue surrounding this virus and these vaccines I’ve yet seen. I would hope more of us favour what’s outlined in the first, rather than the second.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The news is biased as hell. The main problem is that no one is getting unfiltered information. If you want to see the other side of the coin you have to start looking outside of the mainstream news and startpages and that in and of itsself is insane. We should be getting both sides, ALL sides, unfiltered.

No, we should be not getting both sides , because one side has science and hundreds of millions of doses administered and the clear track record of how that leads to less hospitalisations and deaths.

The other side is a bunch of rambling conspiracy theorists that think they know science better after 10 minute Google search than scientists working for decades in a field of epidemiology and virusology.

 

[Thesuffering79]

No, we should be not getting both sides , because one side has science and hundreds of millions of doses administered and the clear track record of how that leads to less hospitalisations and deaths.

The other side is a bunch of rambling conspiracy theorists that think they know science better after 10 minute Google search than scientists working for decades in a field of epidemiology and virusology.

The first part is true aside from the no sides shit.

The second part isn't true. The creator of mRNA technology is cautious on it. While he isn't an anti-vaxxer, he thinks people should be aware of the other options.

 

[Thesuffering79]

She is a lot more healthy than me. I am also unvaxxed. I vape quite a bit and have really bad diet. I am also on a few meds that lower my immune system just a bit. So I am trying my best not to catch it.

Dont go near her for a couple of weeks because you seem to have a lot of comorbidities. Take care of yourself, she would be sad to see you go and will understand you avoiding her.

 

[Ellery]

Angry? I hope to god I'm wrong about all this and that the vaccines are safe even though the powers that be have a terrible track record of telling the truth and caring about people. I mean....i can't even say that without cracking my teeth. Look at the wars and the manipulation and the lies and the coverups. look at what wikileaks has dug up. I mean for the love of god...these people are psychopaths and we are just their sheep. In the end it's just about what pays them the most, not about how many people die or get ill.

Which at this point if you don't see it you are simply refusing to look.

The news is biased as hell. The main problem is that no one is getting unfiltered information. If you want to see the other side of the coin you have to start looking outside of the mainstream news and startpages and that in and of itsself is insane. We should be getting both sides, ALL sides, unfiltered. But not only is it filtered, if you do see something from 'the other side' it is only to be made fun of and skewed to fit the current agenda which is get everyone on these vaccines as quickly as possible! (Before shit hits the fan?)
Where are the normal healthy discussions? Where is critical thought?

What are the results? We can only speculate because they could pop up in the longterm. What are the results now? They are filtered but if you look you can see that these vaccines are not like regular vaccines. They are causing way more deaths and health problems than regular longterm tested vaccines.

And thus are experimental and thus unethical.

And it is normal to check people for vaccination passports when they go out for dinner? Do you WANT to live in a totalitarian state?

I'll just quote this from Persona 5 of all places:

Question: Where does totalitarianism take things a step further than authoritarianism?

Answer: Controlling public thought.

And that is EXACTLY what us happening in the media right now. On every fucking site. Check outside the box and you are labelled as a complete nutcase because that's what the media is telling you all other thoughts and opinions are.

If you think you are not being manipulated on a global scale...think again.

What exactly do you think they are trying to do with that vaccine? With they I mean all gonverments of this world (weird how they all can agree that the virus is real and vaccines help with keeping people alive).

 

[MisterFalcon]

The first part is true aside from the no sides shit.

The second part isn't true. The creator of mRNA technology is cautious on it. While he isn't an anti-vaxxer, he thinks people should be aware of the other options.

"The Creator" as if mRNA technology was invented by Robert Malone only. Which it wasn't, he played a minor part in the earliest development but not nearly as much as someone like Katalin Karikó.

 

[Kilau]

So do we have any efficacy data on the vaccines 6 months out?

I got my second moderna March 6th and I’m wondering how much if any protection I still have.

 

[Rentahamster]

Except Joe didn't say that at all. He just listed a study that mentioned that vaccines that don't kill the virus outright could cause mutations.

Are all people on Twitter fucking retarded?

Not quite. Also, the basic sentence structure of what you said and what you objected to aren't all that different. You just added the phrase "that don't kill the virus outright", which is still not accurate of what the study was talking about. "Vaccines that don't kill the virus outright could cause mutations". No, that's not right.

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

A study using Marek's disease virus in poultry shows that by reducing natural selection against highly virulent strains, imperfect vaccination enables the spread of viral strains that would otherwise be too lethal to persist.

journals.plos.org

Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population. Here we show experimentally that immunization of chickens against Marek's disease virus enhances the fitness of more virulent strains, making it possible for hyperpathogenic strains to transmit. Immunity elicited by direct vaccination or by maternal vaccination prolongs host survival but does not prevent infection, viral replication or transmission, thus extending the infectious periods of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.

The vaccines aren't causing anything. A combination of very specific circumstances could potentially create an environment where more virulent strains are able to survive, with the key aspect being transmission.

I mean truthfully it’s something I am concerned about. But also know a couple of things:

1) I only have a very basic understanding of how this stuff works. I am concerned that the virus will develop a way around the vaccines via natural selection. But I don’t know nearly enough to say whether that is likely or possible.

Having only a basic understanding of complex issues is fine. Humans aren't made to be experts at everything. Our greatest achievements in civilization are done through cooperation, generational knowledge storage, and the division of labor/expertise. Your concerns about the virus are warranted, and you don't know enough - which is why we should consult someone who does know enough. Like the author of the study that Rogan cited.

‘Joe Rogan Is Getting This Completely Wrong,’ Says The Scientist Who Conducted The Vaccine Study

“He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now," says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State University and author of the study.

www.forbes.com

Joe Rogan’s public misrepresentation of a 2015 vaccine study has gone viral. His misunderstanding of the study leads Rogan to wrongly conclude that vaccinating people against COVID-19 will increase the chances of some hyper-virulent mutation. You can watch the video below. But before you do, the lead scientist and author of the study who spent 10 years conducting this research has something to say. Because he’s horrified.

“Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong,” says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State. “He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now.”

To be fair, however, Rogan wasn't using the study to convince people that they shouldn't be vaccinated now. He was using it to show that the vaccines potentially aren't working well (even though they are. Another misconception on Rogan's part).

Rogan quotes a line from the paper’s abstract out of context: “Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population.”

Read responds: “We're talking a very different virus and very different vaccines. The details in biology really matter a lot. The chicken vaccines we worked with, the first-generation vaccine, definitely reduced disease, severity and death.” But unlike the COVID mRNA vaccines, the chicken vaccine “didn't stop transmission at all.” And this is one of the key differences between what was being studied in Read’s paper and our current situation with the global pandemic. “Those [vaccinated] chickens just kept churning out the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks.” Again, this is a key difference. “It’s a very different virus from SARS-2. A key issue here is transmissibility.”

More transmission increases the likelihood of mutation. Thankfully, COVID-19 Vaccines reduce transmission and reduce opportunity for mutation.

This is what I was talking about in the other thread when I was saying how the more chances this vaccine has to stick around and duplicate, the more chances there are of a worse variant evolving, since that's how evolution works. My basis for this claim is basic evolutionary biology.

“Think about what's happening with evolution,” offers Read. “Mutations can occur anytime the [virus] replicates. So the more replication, the more variants are generated. At the moment, the vast majority of the replication is happening in unvaccinated people. You can tell that because the majority of cases in the hospital are unvaccinated individuals. That is where the evolutionary action is happening at the moment.”

Let’s get super clear about this. Are variants occurring in vaccinated or unvaccinated people?

“Evolution, at the moment, is all happening in the unvaccinated. That's where the majority of cases are. That's the majority of transmission. Every time a virus replicates, it can mutate. So the evolution is, right now, occurring in the body of people who are not vaccinated. Rogan is completely wrong trying to deduce anything else.”


The Delta variant emerged from populations who lacked access to vaccines.

“Delta came in India where there was crazy amounts of transmission, not amongst the vaccinated, but amongst the unvaccinated. That's what we need to stop. The unvaccinated need to either get vaccinated or socially distance, mask up, stopping transmission. That's the trick here.”

Read agrees with the vast majority of health experts that vaccines are our best weapon against COVID-19. He adds, “the best way to slow evolution is to stop the virus. It's as simple as that. No replication, no evolution.”

Could a variant evolve in vaccinated people?

Even though variants are more likely to emerge in unvaccinated people, a variant from a vaccinated person is still possible. Either way, the answer is vaccines. If a new variant emerges, “we can get second-generation vaccines,” Read accurately points out, as pharmaceutical companies are already developing boosters and second-generation vaccines. “There’s tons of things we can do in the future. Right now we need to vaccinate as much as possible.” He pauses, “I would be delighted, I have to say, to get to the point where the vast majority of the evolution that's going on is in vaccinated people because there's only vaccinated people around. If we get to that position in a year or something, we can keep a very good eye out on what evolution is happening. But right now the problem is the unvaccinated.”

Is there any reason to avoid vaccination for fear it could produce a vaccine-resistant mutation?

“It's a bizarre line of logic that some hypothetical possibility down the line would hold back lifesaving medicine now. Especially when the vaccines themselves cut down on the amount of virus circulating in the population.”

Are mRNA vaccines ‘leaky’?

Rogan seems to think that mRNA vaccines are quite leaky because of breakthrough infections. Read points out that no vaccine is 100% effective. Although we still need more data to determine how leaky they are, the rate of breakthrough infections in vaccinated people remains statistically low enough to consider the mRNA vaccines highly effective at preventing infection.

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are. It's conceivable that they are actually close to non-leaky. I'm amazed how good these mRNA vaccines are. They're incredibly good.”

This next part is important. This is how misunderstandings turn into misinformation.

Read’s very concerned that misrepresentation of his research is causing vaccine hesitancy.

“The study was tweeted a thousand times last night, according to our metrics,” says Read. “I had a physician in England reach out to me on Friday asking me to [clarify] because his patients are using my paper to argue against vaccination.” Calling into question the effectiveness of vaccines was never the intention of his 2015 study. “I am genuinely shocked. I've been doing work for 20 years now on how vaccines might drive the evolution of viruses. There's nothing in any of that 20 years work that argues in favor of withholding lifesaving vaccines. It's just shocking to me.” He adds, “There are 600,000 Americans dead so far. The vast majority of those deaths are vaccine-preventable. There's not a single scenario that would argue in favor of not using [vaccines] to save the next hundred thousand. Not one scenario.”

And another thing: vaccines even worked on the chickens Read was studying.

“The [poultry] industry was being hammered by that virus. They made the discovery in the 1960s of a way to vaccinate that saved the industry a fortune,” says Read. “[It] kept many, many chickens from dying horrible deaths. It was absolutely terrific. And then after 10 years, evolution caused some problems which required a different vaccine, which was developed very quickly. And that held for another 10 years. And then the third generation of vaccine is why your chicken nuggets are still cheap. It's worked now for 30 or 40 years. And it stopped the virus evolution. Almost certainly the reason it stopped the virus evolution is because it stopped transmission. So even in the chicken case, there's no argument at all why you'd want to be an unvaccinated chicken.”

The price we pay from misinformation

“What really gets me, apart from the fact that I do think this is a public health threat–[that] people who are arguing against vaccinations are doing other people great harm. Apart from that, I really get concerned that this sort of disinformation, or this inappropriate interpretation means that it's very difficult for us scientists to actually ask serious questions about how evolution might proceed and get a good look at it because we get this concern that our work will be taken and twisted.”

“Those of us who are very interested in the way the evolution might go, have trouble doing the work, or at least talking about it, because of the concern that people like Joe Rogan will twist it and use it in the wrong way.”

“I think we have a moral obligation as scientists and public health people to look at the evolution going forward, keep a good eye on it, make sure that if anything is happening that we don't like, that we rapidly develop vaccines to pick it up and sort it out. I can't see any scenario where we can't address possible evolutionary consequences by tweaking the vaccines or [by developing] next-generation vaccines. Vaccines are the way out of this.”

TLDR: Replications have chances of mutation. More replications, more mutations, more chances that some random mutation actually makes the virus worse. The COVID vaccines greatly reduce the opportunities for the virus to spread and thus limits its opportunities for replication, which limits its opportunities to evolve into something deadlier. Using his study of chicken vaccines as some kind of evidence against the utility of the COVID vaccines is comparing apples to pears and is not applicable. Get the vaccine, social distance, wear a mask. Not just for yourself, but for your community, friends, family, and for the future.

 

[Rentahamster]

So do we have any efficacy data on the vaccines 6 months out?

I got my second moderna March 6th and I’m wondering how much if any protection I still have.

Assuming you're healthy and below 60, you're probably fine. With Delta around, you could possibly become an asymptomatic carrier, so just make sure to practice caution even if you're fully vaccinated since it's very easy to be unaware of the danger one could pose to others, especially if you interact with a lot of unvaccinated people.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

9 Overall, we find that in our study population from Minnesota, both vaccines strongly reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19, but individuals vaccinated with mRNA-1273 were about half as likely to experience breakthrough infections as individuals vaccinated with BNT162b2. This relative risk reduction conferred by mRNA-1273 was also observed in other states, including in Florida during a recent COVID-19 outbreak. The effectiveness of both vaccines, particularly BNT162b2, was lower in July compared to prior months. Finally, the rates of complications experienced by patients with breakthrough infections were similar between those vaccinated with mRNA-1273 or BNT162b2.

mRNA-1273 and BNT162b2 were originally designed, tested, and proven to reduce the burden of symptomatic disease, hospitalization, and death related to SARS-CoV-2 infection. This study further supports the effectiveness of both vaccines in doing so, even despite the evolution of more transmissible viral variants. It is important to realize that most vaccines are not 100% effective, particularly against asymptomatic infections. For example, the estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccines has ranged from 19-60% over the past decade.16 While COVID19 mRNA vaccines have been shown to be drastically more effective than this, the occurrence of breakthrough infections is indeed still expected. We observed a pronounced reduction in the effectiveness of BNT162b2 coinciding with the surging prevalence of the Delta variant in the United States, but this temporal association does not imply causality, and there are likely several factors contributing to changes in vaccine effectiveness over time. Consistent with our findings, a previous test-negative case-control study found that full vaccination with BNT162b2 was less effective in preventing symptomatic infection with the Delta variant (88.0%, 95% CI: 85-90.1%) than with the Alpha variant (93.7%, 95% CI: 91.6-95.3%), although it was highly effective against both.17

Elapsed time since BNT162b2 vaccine and risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection in a large cohort

Importance Israel was among the first countries to launch a large-scale COVID-19 vaccination campaign, and quickly vaccinated its population, achieving early control over the spread of the virus. However, the number of COVID-19 cases is now rapidly increasing, which may indicate that vaccine...

www.medrxiv.org

Results The cohort included 33,993 fully vaccinated adults, 49% women, with a mean age of 47 years (SD, 17 years), who received an RT-PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 during the study period. The median time between the second dose of the vaccine and the RT-PCR test was 146 days, interquartile range [121-167] days. 608 (1.8%) patients had positive test results. There was a significantly higher rate of positive results among patients who received their second vaccine dose at least 146 days before the RT-PCR test compared to patients who have received their vaccine less than 146 days before: odds ratio for infection was 3.00 for patients aged over 60 (95% CI 1.86-5.11); 2.29 for patients aged between 40 and 59 (95% CI 1.67-3.17); and 1.74 for patients aged between 18 and 39 (95% CI 1.27-2.37); P<0.001 in each age group.

Conclusions and Relevance In this large population study of patients tested for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR following two doses of mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, we observe a significant increase of the risk of infection in individuals who received their last vaccine dose since at least 146 days ago, particularly among patients older than 60.

 

[Rentahamster]

They are causing way more deaths and health problems than regular longterm tested vaccines.

Where are you getting this information from?

It's wrong.

 

[Ellery]

Where are you getting this information from?

It's wrong.

Obviously Persona 5

 

[Thesuffering79]

"The Creator" as if mRNA technology was invented by Robert Malone only. Which it wasn't, he played a minor part in the earliest development but not nearly as much as someone like Katalin Karikó.

mRNA technology and mRNA vaccine technology is different. Robert Malone created mRNA technology which then Katalin Kariko used the technology Robert Malone made to create mRNA vaccine technology with the help of Robert Malone himself. Even in Katalin's research paper she credited Robert Malone for greatly helping her. So I don't know where the "minor" part is coming from.

 

[Kilau]

Assuming you're healthy and below 60, you're probably fine. With Delta around, you could possibly become an asymptomatic carrier, so just make sure to practice caution even if you're fully vaccinated since it's very easy to be unaware of the danger one could pose to others, especially if you interact with a lot of unvaccinated people.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf

Elapsed time since BNT162b2 vaccine and risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection in a large cohort

Importance Israel was among the first countries to launch a large-scale COVID-19 vaccination campaign, and quickly vaccinated its population, achieving early control over the spread of the virus. However, the number of COVID-19 cases is now rapidly increasing, which may indicate that vaccine...

www.medrxiv.org

I’m 42 and in Florida, based on that data I wouldn’t say no to a booster.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

No, my point is that she doesn't get that this was preventable and that her anti-vax position was wrong, even when confronted with the harshest possible wake up call.

It wasn’t HER position that landed her parents in the morgue. It was HER PARENTS call to make. It was a foolish call. But it was theirs to make.

Man you liberals are all about “my body, my choice” except when it comes viruses. Then your “boot on other’s neck” fetish comes into play.

 

[Rentahamster]

I’m 42 and in Florida, based on that data I wouldn’t say no to a booster.

Damn, Florida's got a lot of virus going around at the moment. Stay safe over there. Keep your body healthy and fit, and if you're around people, well ventilated areas are better.

 

[Thaedolus]

It wasn’t HER position that landed her parents in the morgue. It was HER PARENTS call to make. It was a foolish call. But it was theirs to make.

Man you liberals are all about “my body, my choice” except when it comes viruses. Then your “boot on other’s neck” fetish comes into play.

Again, this decision affects everyone that could be infected by the “muh choice” crowd. It’s not analogous

 

[Umbasaborne]

This thread (and many others like it elsewhere) are becoming fascinating insights into human psychology, the more proof emerges about how effective and safe the vaccines are. Those who choose to believe that the vaccines are either dangerous, ineffective or both, are very much starting to thrash around the topic, looking for ways to be angry at those of us who were, and always have been, right about this because we trust in the science.

Honestly man, i just feel so fucking angry. We were so close to getting back to normal. I followed the rules, i was vaccinated, i was harrassed by anti-vaxxers, yet with delta sending us right back to square one, it feels like im being punished for following them. And now these fucks have ruined it for everyone else. I havent felt this much seething rage in a long time.

 

[Jaysen]

Where are you getting this information from?

It's wrong.

Dr. Facebook

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Again, this decision affects everyone that could be infected by the “muh choice” crowd. It’s not analogous

So you must pro life, right? I’m guessing you also don’t believe in euthanasia under any circumstances whatsoever. I mean both of those ‘muh choices’ effect others.

And to the virus- the vaccines not work? Because I could’ve sworn many on this board say it does. If it does work, are the vaccines not plentiful and immediately available? Because if it is, then it really doesn’t effect people they way you and POTUS and all the other bootlickers say it does.

So, maybe it really does come to down to choice and people really should mind their own business.

 

[Thaedolus]

So you must pro life, right? I’m guessing you also don’t believe in euthanasia under any circumstances whatsoever. I mean both of those ‘muh choices’ effect others.

And to the virus- the vaccines not work? Because I could’ve sworn many on this board say it does. If it does work, are the vaccines not plentiful and immediately available? Because if it is, then it really doesn’t effect people they way you and POTUS and all the other bootlickers say it does.

So, maybe it really does come to down to choice and people really should mind their own business.

I’m not going down a derail about abortion with you, but you can’t infect hundreds of other people with a deadly virus by getting an abortion.

Your point about the vaccine is just as retarded when you consider some of us have young children who can’t get vaccinated, others have underlying conditions which don’t allow them to be vaccinated, the vaccine is ~90% effective so there’s still risk from infected people, and so on. Try thinking two steps past “hurrr durrr if y’all vaccinated why you worried?” and understand the issues before spouting off about it

 

[SF Kosmo]

Man you liberals are all about “my body, my choice” except when it comes viruses. Then your “boot on other’s neck” fetish comes into play.

"Boot on the neck." I gotta say, while I don't actually think the government should mandate vaccines, I am a little tired of people acting like they're being thrown in the gulag because someone tried to give them free life saving medicine. Conservatives have totally taken over the oppression olympics, I swear.

 

[CAB_Life]

100K population cohort study on Covid Infection and Exercise

The above is the first nationwide cohort study on infectivity rates vs. physically active individuals. Very similar and expected findings to what I wrote here (or to what any reasonable person could guess about the benefits of exercise on one’s health):

Ministry of Misinformation

Spoiler for those that don’t want to read the cohort study: fit people (150m of vigorous exercise per week) have less infectivity and almost no mortality rate with the disease. The absolute negligence of our governments and health agencies in not placing a focus on activity and wellness is appalling and one of the greatest acts of medical misinformation of our generation. Yes, there is always some random outlier you can find with an Olympian or whatever who was especially stricken from Covid, however, that’s clearly the exception not the rule, and there’s a second study that tracks 100 or so elite, pro athletes that’s also worth reading on this topic. Nothing so exhaustive or conclusive as the above though.

 

[Thaedolus]

100K population cohort study on Covid Infection and Exercise

The above is the first nationwide cohort study on infectivity rates vs. physically active individuals. Very similar and expected findings to what I wrote here (or to what any reasonable person could guess about the benefits of exercise on one’s health):

Ministry of Misinformation

Spoiler for those that don’t want to read the cohort study: fit people (150m of vigorous exercise per week) have less infectivity and almost no mortality rate with the disease. The absolute negligence of our governments and health agencies in not placing a focus on activity and wellness is appalling and one of the greatest acts of medical misinformation of our generation. Yes, there is always some random outlier you can find with an Olympian or whatever who was especially stricken from Covid, however, that’s clearly the exception not the rule, and there’s a second study that tracks 100 or so elite, pro athletes that’s also worth reading on this topic. Nothing so exhaustive or conclusive as the above though.

The second you start telling people to get off their fat asses to exercise for their own health is the second they start bitching and moaning about the tree hugger exercise gestapo

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

fit people (150m of vigorous exercise per week) have less infectivity and almost no mortality rate with the disease.

Good to finally find out who China was targetting with this virus.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Chaplain]

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

It is the second major deal Ottawa has made to get mRNA vaccines made in Canada in the last three months.

Future demand for mRNAs expected to be bigger than COVID-19

Canada has played no part in the production of Moderna or any other COVID-19 vaccine to date. Its lacklustre pharmaceutical industry, decimated over the last 30 years, left Canada entirely reliant on imported vaccines to slow COVID-19. Many of the scientists on the teams that made COVID-19 vaccines are from Canada but were lured away to the United States and elsewhere, where life science industries were thriving.

 

[Jaysen]

Its almost as if it works.

 

[ManaByte]

Its almost as if it works.

It's almost as if the new government in Israel is lying.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Germany introducing obligatory tests if incidence is higher than 35 in 100k over 7 days. Tests will also not be free anymore. This means getting the vaccine is not a choice anymore, at least if you're poor. Looks like it's time to get a fake jab.

 

[CAB_Life]

Its almost as if it works.

The problem with that data, from my understanding:

The CDC used to be more thorough in its surveillance of breakthrough cases. It tracked them all between 1 January and 30 April of this year, counting 10,262 in that time frame. But on 1 May, the agency changed its strategy to investigate only breakthrough cases that led to hospitalization or death. “This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance,” it explained.

Why has the CDC stopped collecting data on breakthrough Covid cases? | Yasmin Tayag

The US is stumbling in the dark when it comes to breakthrough cases. Why?

www.theguardian.com

I think we really need to get a grasp on how many breakthrough/ vaccinated delta infections are happening, regardless of whether they result in death or hospitalization. Otherwise the pandemic will never get under control. The UK is way ahead of NA on this reporting.

 

[Thaedolus]

I just can’t understand how anyone could be frustrated or angry with anti vaxxers…these concerns are so legit…

 

[A.Romero]

To me the biggest evidence that the vaccine approach is the correct one (or at least the best available for most people) is the fact that I haven't heard of a single government around the world pushing back. There has to be at least one government that is outside of the influence of this very powerful group of people manipulating the information to get chips into people or whatever the theory behind the true intentions behind the vaccination efforts are.

I mean, not even governments that are under immense pressure because they can't get enough vaccines and distribute them fast enough are saying it doesn't work.

That said, it's a tough situation. I really want this to work and we need most people to jump in so it can be effective but I'm torn about making people do it.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The second part isn't true. The creator of mRNA technology is cautious on it. While he isn't an anti-vaxxer, he thinks people should be aware of the other options.

Already debunked, try again.

 

[Thaedolus]

Don’t worry, the healthcare workers signed up for this and you didn’t need that elective surgery to have that tumor removed anyway

 

[ManaByte]

I just can’t understand how anyone could be frustrated or angry with anti vaxxers…these concerns are so legit…

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SHARES

 

[SF Kosmo]

It's almost as if the new government in Israel is lying.

I think Israel is underreporting (not necessarily deliberately) mild cases, which makes the proportion of severe cases appear higher than it is. But the amount of hospitalizations and deaths there is still very low and disproportionately unvaccinated. We're still talking a daily death rate of like 5-6 people.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[12Goblins]

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SHARES

it would probably be hundreds of thousands if they were still with us. rip

 

[Jaysen]

I just can’t understand how anyone could be frustrated or angry with anti vaxxers…these concerns are so legit…

Both sides arguments should be respected!

 

[ManaByte]

Both sides arguments should be respected!

 

[Hulk_Smash]

"Boot on the neck." I gotta say, while I don't actually think the government should mandate vaccines, I am a little tired of people acting like they're being thrown in the gulag because someone tried to give them free life saving medicine. Conservatives have totally taken over the oppression olympics, I swear.

Right, but forcing business owners to enforce the vaxx papers in NYC or the arrests made in Canada, Australia, UK, etc for not adhering to the lockdowns. Those don't count, right? What happens to those business owners if they refuse to enforce it? You think the state is going to be all like, "Well, shucks we tried. We just can't do anything about those silly rebellious business owners. Nope. Nothing. Can't fine them, imprison them, shut their business down. Golly I wish we could."

This is why I can't take anyone on the other side of this seriously. You got your head buried in the sand. Nothing the government can force you to do will stop or even slow down this disease. It is up to the individual to make the decision to take care of themselves. And if they choose not to it is NOT THEIR FUCKING FAULT IF THEY SPREAD THE DISEASE TO OTHER PEOPLE. Fuck's sake. If you go down that route, you will find yourself in a morally quandary where EVERY disease being spread is now the fault of people that didn't do x,y, and z.

Besides, it's undeniable that the virus can spread among the vaccinated. Again, I am not against the vaccines. I am for them. Get one if you have concluded it would help you. And it does help. It keeps most people (though not all) that get the virus from dying. Good. Great even. It can also limit the spread to others. Good again. But, it doesn't stop it. I know a family personally that all got vaccinated. And now they all have COVID. So, what then? They're let off the hook because they did what the statist bootlickers told them to do? That doesn't make any damned sense.

How about this? Get vaccinated. Decide what you feel is safe for you and your family.

And then mind your own fucking business.

 

[12Goblins]

Angry? I hope to god I'm wrong about all this and that the vaccines are safe even though the powers that be have a terrible track record of telling the truth and caring about people. I mean....i can't even say that without cracking my teeth. Look at the wars and the manipulation and the lies and the coverups. look at what wikileaks has dug up. I mean for the love of god...these people are psychopaths and we are just their sheep. In the end it's just about what pays them the most, not about how many people die or get ill.

Which at this point if you don't see it you are simply refusing to look.

The news is biased as hell. The main problem is that no one is getting unfiltered information. If you want to see the other side of the coin you have to start looking outside of the mainstream news and startpages and that in and of itsself is insane. We should be getting both sides, ALL sides, unfiltered. But not only is it filtered, if you do see something from 'the other side' it is only to be made fun of and skewed to fit the current agenda which is get everyone on these vaccines as quickly as possible! (Before shit hits the fan?)
Where are the normal healthy discussions? Where is critical thought?

What are the results? We can only speculate because they could pop up in the longterm. What are the results now? They are filtered but if you look you can see that these vaccines are not like regular vaccines. They are causing way more deaths and health problems than regular longterm tested vaccines.

And thus are experimental and thus unethical.

And it is normal to check people for vaccination passports when they go out for dinner? Do you WANT to live in a totalitarian state?

I'll just quote this from Persona 5 of all places:

Question: Where does totalitarianism take things a step further than authoritarianism?

Answer: Controlling public thought.

And that is EXACTLY what us happening in the media right now. On every fucking site. Check outside the box and you are labelled as a complete nutcase because that's what the media is telling you all other thoughts and opinions are.

If you think you are not being manipulated on a global scale...think again.

bro stop projecting your inability to understand the world onto everyone else

 

[SF Kosmo]

This is why I can't take anyone on the other side of this seriously. You got your head buried in the sand. Nothing the government can force you to do will stop or even slow down this disease. It is up to the individual to make the decision to take care of themselves. And if they choose not to it is NOT THEIR FUCKING FAULT IF THEY SPREAD THE DISEASE TO OTHER PEOPLE. Fuck's sake. If you go down that route, you will find yourself in a morally quandary where EVERY disease being spread is now the fault of people that didn't do x,y, and z.

Besides, it's undeniable that the virus can spread among the vaccinated. Again, I am not against the vaccines. I am for them. Get one if you have concluded it would help you. And it does help. It keeps most people (though not all) that get the virus from dying. Good. Great even. It can also limit the spread to others. Good again. But, it doesn't stop it. I know a family personally that all got vaccinated. And now they all have COVID. So, what then? They're let off the hook because they did what the statist bootlickers told them to do?

Again, the childish language about "doing what the boitlickers told the" belies the "child who doesn't want to eat his vegetables" mentality that anchors a lot of the vaccine resistance. You're not a rebel for being unvaccinated, just a burden on society. Conservatives want to talk about personal responsibility but then want to put themselves in the hospital for weeks for no reason and make someone else wipe their ass.

And yes, we generally give a pass to people who act responsibly compared to those that don't, because we judge people based on their actions not just on outcomes.

This is common sense. We hold people accountable for their choices, not for things beyond their control.

How about this? Get vaccinated. Decide what you feel is safe for you and your family.

And then mind your own fucking business.

If everyone just got vaccinated instead of crying about it we wouldn't be having to have lockdown and passport conversations right now.

But because all the baby boys don't wanna take their medicine, we have this massive public health burden to contend with. That shit's not okay. We're right to look at these people as burdens.

 

[Halo is Back]

anti-vaxxers are really flexing their big brain energy right now lmao

 

[008]

Floridian here checking in. Talking to a couple of women right now who work in the local hospitals... They are filling up to capacity, opening new floors, and all of them are unvaccinated.

Shit is wild here in Florida right now

 

[ManaByte]

all of them are unvaccinated

 

[poppabk]

Something I was wondering about the other day in light of the reports that there was likely already an outbreak/quarantine underway in Wuhan during the world military games, and how that event helped disperse Covid around the world: who selects the location for the military games every year (or however often it's held)? I can't find any information on that. Interesting that these games would happen to be held in Wuhan the same year that a pandemic-level respiratory virus was brewing.

You think they determine the location of the games a week before they take place?
Plus I am pretty sure this whole military games thing is just conjecture at best right now.