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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

Thaedolus

Member
And yet, as a society, at this point we basically encourage and celebrate obesity, which quite possibly directly led to at least half of our COVID hospitalizations and deaths, nevermind all of the heart disease we see, which continues to be our leading cause of death by far.
No we don't. The fact that some people want to push some sort of fat acceptance agenda doesn't mean we encourage and celebrate it as a society. And if you do want to eat pizza around me I doubt you'll accidentally cough a slice into my mouth.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
All Western nations invest heavily in fitness.

Many early memories of preschool are nutrition, fitness related.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
Tom Hanks’ dumbass kid is basically everyone sayin we don’t know enough yet.lol


And with rising numbers in pediatric care in the loosest restricted areas Fractious Plague Chets are exactly why schools need mandates to protect the kids and provide consistent robust safety until they get their vaccine.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
This was my mood board for that last post.

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L0Fuped.png


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Jaysen

Banned
No we don't. The fact that some people want to push some sort of fat acceptance agenda doesn't mean we encourage and celebrate it as a society. And if you do want to eat pizza around me I doubt you'll accidentally cough a slice into my mouth.
If anything, we are a society obsessed with diet and looking thin and attractive.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
If anything, we are a society obsessed with diet and looking thin and attractive.
And uses overweight images as a fear motivator from the stigmatization trying to balance it with not isolating them and make their situation worse.
While figuring out exactly where Edgar Friendly was right. Nations do regulate food.

Still this is getting off track from Covid.

In terms of Covid, the threat to overweight people isn't downplayed and fitness encouraged.
 
And yet, as a society, at this point we basically encourage and celebrate obesity, which quite possibly directly led to at least half of our COVID hospitalizations and deaths, nevermind all of the heart disease we see, which continues to be our leading cause of death by far.
Not only that, it is the very same government that so many want us to trust that created the food pyramid that has led to an obesity/health crisis, a set of dietary guidelines directly influenced/lobbied for by the very entities that would most profit from such implementation across society. I wonder who's benefiting from the current government "wisdom"...
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Food guides had lots of problems with lobbying here. Usually changed not only with new understanding in nutrition, but also with changes in government and the resulting changes in industry relationship. Looking over any past food guides and their nutritional/lobbying value would show relations to government and industry. Exploitation, rather than murderous intent. It does have to pass other oversights.

Still, as is said when this obesity subject gets brought forward. Obesity isn't contagious. It's not downplayed. Healthy lifestyles are invested in.
 
Food guides had lots of problems with lobbying here. Usually changed not only with new understanding in nutrition, but also with changes in government and the resulting changes in industry relationship. Looking over any past food guides and their nutritional/lobbying value would show relations to government and industry. Exploitation, rather than murderous intent. It does have to pass other oversights.

Still, as is said when this obesity subject gets brought forward. Obesity isn't contagious. It's not downplayed. Healthy lifestyles are invested in.
It doesn't have to be murderous intent. The net effect is that corporate interests infiltrate government and get their agendas implemented, agendas that are *first and foremost* profit driven, irrespective of the well-being of the citizens to whom those recommendations, policies, laws, etc affect.

It's make money first - above *all* else.

"Well, what about the people?"

"Lol - fuck the people."

Big business *is* the government in today's world.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
It doesn't have to be murderous intent. The net effect is that corporate interests infiltrate government and get their agendas implemented, agendas that are *first and foremost* profit driven, irrespective of the well-being of the citizens to whom those recommendations, policies, laws, etc affect.

It's make money first - above *all* else.

"Well, what about the people?"

"Lol - fuck the people."

Big business *is* the government in today's world.
and the health effects could kill if what is lobbied for has a detrimental effect. There's so much economics and doing the best with what one got, not trying to be purely ideal.

Regulation and oversight are so important for food security and health.

I'd love to get into how social behaviors could be interpreted virally, but this would be a subject for it's own thread.

I understand your trust concern behind the specifics though.
 

RavageX

Member
For me personally....

I have no problem wearing a mask, etc.
If people want to get vaccinated, that's good! My wife has been and several friends, family, etc.
I am on a, "wait and see" approach.

Why? The US has a funny way with things. Medical care here is typically money and profit first, some way, some how.

I don't feel this has been worked on long enough either. One too many people have had nasty side effects, and some deaths from the vaccine complications, and clearly it's not what they initially claimed it to be.

And not to be one of those types of people.... since they have done stuff like the Tuskegee study before...

Eh, I dunno. I'm just going to wait.

I am also not running around partying, etc.

Just work and home, which can be dangerous I know.
 
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CAB_Life

Member
Oh I brought this up and another poster’s response was basically “fuck em, it’s their job.”



We have seatbelt laws, helmet laws, cigarette taxes, DUI laws...oh wait we actually do fine people for engaging in dangerous activities.
There is no punishment, fine or taxation for being obese. Indeed you can actually recieve disability in some countries if you're fat enough. A high BMI is the primary comorbidity in 80%--or more, since no one has updated the statistics--of all Covid deaths or serious hospitalizations. Social ostracization and peer pressure isn't even an option now with this body positivity bs. I'm not trying to fat shame anyone, and it's regrettable if that hurts your feelings, but frankly Covid doesn't give a fuck about your feelings either.

Many of the people dying from Covid are fat. Full stop. We know this now. We have numerous reports, studies and secondary lifestyle cohorts that confirm this as science. Real, fact-checked, CDC, MSM approved data upon which all scientists agree, no one seems to argue, and still no one wants to talk about.

How about we start addressing the elephant in the pandemic while continuing to stress the importance of vaccines? But pretending as if there's nothing self-determined that people can do is willfully ignorant and just as dangerous as rabid anti-vaxx rhetoric.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Food guides had lots of problems with lobbying here. Usually changed not only with new understanding in nutrition, but also with changes in government and the resulting changes in industry relationship. Looking over any past food guides and their nutritional/lobbying value would show relations to government and industry. Exploitation, rather than murderous intent. It does have to pass other oversights.

Still, as is said when this obesity subject gets brought forward. Obesity isn't contagious. It's not downplayed. Healthy lifestyles are invested in.

I wonder what other industries may spend enormous amounts on lobbying for undue influence... Perhaps not with murderous intent (although the outcome of their actions is often death on a massive scale), but just out of the desire to enrich themselves.

Anyway, this discussion on obesity came about because an argument that people should not be allowed to abstain from behavior that will decrease their likelihood of needing hospital care was made.
 

sinnergy

Member

Looks like completely opening up with no masks mandates works guys! Pay no attention to the dire need for additional ventilators from the federal government. Wow, such amazing local governance! Fucking idiots.
Yup… now they learned the hard way ..

Like I said months ago, you can open up but need some measures in place ..

Covid is a silent killer, it builds out of sight and bam … this winter wil be the real case studie for Israel , UK ETC
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
I wonder what other industries may spend enormous amounts on lobbying for undue influence... Perhaps not with murderous intent (although the outcome of their actions is often death on a massive scale), but just out of the desire to enrich themselves.

Anyway, this discussion on obesity came about because an argument that people should not be allowed to abstain from behavior that will decrease their likelihood of needing hospital care was made.
Foreign corporations and governments with the vaccines and various profit and power agendas, too.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member

Looks like completely opening up with no masks mandates works guys! Pay no attention to the dire need for additional ventilators from the federal government. Wow, such amazing local governance! Fucking idiots.

Florida isn't the only state or country that got rid of mask mandates...
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Anyway, this discussion on obesity came about because an argument that people should not be allowed to abstain from behavior that will decrease their likelihood of needing hospital care was made.
And you understand that this is an issue that is understood by everyone everywhere dealing with Covid and doesn't have to be questioned again?
 

Thaedolus

Member
There is no punishment, fine or taxation for being obese. Indeed you can actually recieve disability in some countries if you're fat enough. A high BMI is the primary comorbidity in 80%--or more, since no one has updated the statistics--of all Covid deaths or serious hospitalizations. Social ostracization and peer pressure isn't even an option now with this body positivity bs. I'm not trying to fat shame anyone, and it's regrettable if that hurts your feelings, but frankly Covid doesn't give a fuck about your feelings either.

Many of the people dying from Covid are fat. Full stop. We know this now. We have numerous reports, studies and secondary lifestyle cohorts that confirm this as science. Real, fact-checked, CDC, MSM approved data upon which all scientists agree, no one seems to argue, and still no one wants to talk about.

How about we start addressing the elephant in the pandemic while continuing to stress the importance of vaccines? But pretending as if there's nothing self-determined that people can do is willfully ignorant and just as dangerous as rabid anti-vaxx rhetoric.

I'm all for pushing people to get in shape/lose weight. That's absolutely an approach that shouldn't be overlooked or diminished. The problem is: that's a long and obviously difficult process for most people (which is why they're fat to begin with, I don't think anyone wants to be fat) and the virus is here now. A vaccine begins to become effective within a couple weeks. It still makes sense to push for more vaccination now even if we can get people to lose weight and exercise over the long-term too.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
And yet, as a society, at this point we basically encourage and celebrate obesity, which quite possibly directly led to at least half of our COVID hospitalizations and deaths, nevermind all of the heart disease we see, which continues to be our leading cause of death by far.
Imagine if obesity could be treated with a safe, easy, cost-free injection that had been proven safe on over a billion people.
 
Florida isn't the only state or country that got rid of mask mandates...

And we will see where those states end up in a few months, won't we? I'm willing to bet we see this story on repeat as time goes on. But by all means, keep putting your fingers in your ears and close your eyes when reality and facts get in the way of your fantasy conspiracy bullshit.
 
For me personally....

I have no problem wearing a mask, etc.
If people want to get vaccinated, that's good! My wife has been and several friends, family, etc.
I am on a, "wait and see" approach.

Why? The US has a funny way with things. Medical care here is typically money and profit first, some way, some how.

I don't feel this has been worked on long enough either. One too many people have had nasty side effects, and some deaths from the vaccine complications, and clearly it's not what they initially claimed it to be.

And not to be one of those types of people.... since they have done stuff like the Tuskegee study before...

Eh, I dunno. I'm just going to wait.

I am also not running around partying, etc.

Just work and home, which can be dangerous I know.
Got a link handy detailing all of those nasty side effects and deaths?
 

Vestal

Junior Member

Looks like completely opening up with no masks mandates works guys! Pay no attention to the dire need for additional ventilators from the federal government. Wow, such amazing local governance! Fucking idiots.
We are in this position because our Governor thought that taking a victory lap in early summer to catapult him into the National Spotlight was more important than actually managing the situation in his state properly..... Ill shut up now, because the reality of what is happening in Florida has to do more with Politics than anything else.
 

RavageX

Member
Got a link handy detailing all of those nasty side effects and deaths?
Not a link, but this is based off of talking to people local to me, which is good enough for me.

And I am not saying that this is 50/50 or anything like that, my wife and plenty of people I know have had it and are doing fine. Some have had it and got sick, or have had problems appear since having it and might not even be related, same with the deaths I'm aware of.

I just know that I'm not interested right now.
 

CAB_Life

Member
I'm all for pushing people to get in shape/lose weight. That's absolutely an approach that shouldn't be overlooked or diminished. The problem is: that's a long and obviously difficult process for most people (which is why they're fat to begin with, I don't think anyone wants to be fat) and the virus is here now. A vaccine begins to become effective within a couple weeks. It still makes sense to push for more vaccination now even if we can get people to lose weight and exercise over the long-term too.
The failure is on our leadership for not having pushed activity/ health and wellness (in conjunction with a vaccination plan) in the first place, that’s the issue. And it will continue to be an issue with future variants, which seem unending at this point, unless we address some of the underlying comorbidities and their root causes.
 

Thaedolus

Member
The failure is on our leadership for not having pushed activity/ health and wellness (in conjunction with a vaccination plan) in the first place, that’s the issue. And it will continue to be an issue with future variants, which seem unending at this point, unless we address some of the underlying comorbidities and their root causes.
It's one of many failures. There's no single solution to fix what's going on because there's never going to be a magic bullet. If everyone in America were fit and at a healthy weight, then I'm sure the death rate would be much lower. The reality of the situation is Americans aren't fit and at healthy weights, and there's no way to snap your fingers and make that so any time soon. So, by all means, let's push people to start getting healthy and move in the right direction. Also, let's use every other weapon in our arsenal to get a handle on this in the meantime. We didn't stop fighting WWII while we waited for the Manhattan project to finish.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
This was my mood board for that last post.

L0Fuped.png
Being overweight by BMI is actually better than being in the 'normal' range when it comes to COVID.
Besides when roughly 75% of the country is overweight or obese no shit something close to 75% of anything random is gonna be in overweight or obese people.
"75% of lottery winners are overweight or obese"
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
And you understand that this is an issue that is understood by everyone everywhere dealing with Covid and doesn't have to be questioned again?

No, because:

Being overweight by BMI is actually better than being in the 'normal' range when it comes to COVID.
Besides when roughly 75% of the country is overweight or obese no shit something close to 75% of anything random is gonna be in overweight or obese people.
"75% of lottery winners are overweight or obese"
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Being overweight by BMI is actually better than being in the 'normal' range when it comes to COVID.
Besides when roughly 75% of the country is overweight or obese no shit something close to 75% of anything random is gonna be in overweight or obese people.
"75% of lottery winners are overweight or obese"
Didn't hear anything about the first point and as you illustrate 'normal' is what where?
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
No, because:
It's just the truth. Obese people are at a much higher rate of hospitalization and/or death, overweight people have a lower incidence of hospitalization or death than normal weight range people.
Possibly this has changed with the new variants, not sure if there is more up to date info. Could be the smoking effect - people who smoke can more easily get into the normal range.
There is a big risk increase with obesity but the article lumping (no pun intended) overweight people actually masks that if you are aware of just how fat the US is. Hell we are now having to sub-categorize obese people, just regular obese people didn't qualify for phase I vaccine roll out in Virginia only the super obese.
 
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Ellery

Member
You guys could also just look at other rich first world countries with people that don't have a 36% obesity rate. Unsurprisingly they have roughly the same death rate per million people as the United States despite the USA having 10x the amount of obese people per capita.

Going by that flawed logic spread by some people in here then that would mean the USA would have 10x the death rate compared to Japan or South Korea but in reality they are all roughly the same.

Edit : Mistake in my language. Sorry that happened. I am not perfect and know and can admit to making mistakes. Obviously I tried to talk about the fatality rate.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Going by that flawed logic spread by some people in here then that would mean the USA would have 10x the death rate compared to Japan or South Korea but in reality they are all roughly the same.

I'm sorry?

42HlqUN.jpg


Here's a related post I did on the issue about a month ago.

 
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Loki

Count of Concision
You think they determine the location of the games a week before they take place?
Plus I am pretty sure this whole military games thing is just conjecture at best right now.

No, of course I realize that the location is selected in advance. I just want to know when it was selected and, more importantly, who does the selecting. Re: the speculative nature of the military games being a vector for the incipient pandemic, the articles I’ve seen from reputable sources sounded pretty confident that was the case. Something like several dozen athletes fell ill with symptoms which we now know are consistent with COVID, and they reported that the city appeared to already be under some sort of quarantine when they arrived (these reports were from the American and Canadian delegations, iirc). Who knows. It’s not something I’d hang my hat on - more curiosity than anything.
 

Ellery

Member
I'm sorry?

42HlqUN.jpg


Here's a related post I did on the issue about a month ago.


Okay I made a mistake. This one is on me I can admit it. I wrote per million people instead of death rate %. It makes sense that a country which has a lot more infections per million also has a lot more deaths per million.
(It is actually what I googled for, but failed to put into words as a non native speaker. My bad for the confusion)

Here is what I was trying to say :

biVSpTa.png




It is pretty clear that those case fatality rates are pretty close even though the US has a 8-10x Obesity rate compared to Japan/South Korea.

So the same amount of people (from the pool of infected) die and blaming obesity on people dying of Covid seems like a big reach.
 
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DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
If every unvaccinated person was put on truth serum and given this poll as to why they didn't get the vaccine, what result would you think get the majority of the votes?

1. I'm concerned about the effects on my body either now or down the road.

2. Out of principle. People say I must take it, so I refuse to out of principle to show that my freedoms won't be infringed upon.

3. Spite. The political party opposite of mine are the ones pushing it, so I'm not just to stick it to them.

4. I just don't care about catching COVID nor do I fear what it can do to me, so I'm not going to waste my time getting a vaccine.

5. I simply don't trust the people saying it's safe and effective, and I won't take anything recommended by people I don't trust.

6. I want the vaccine, but I haven't been able to get it or don't know the proper procedures to get it or I assumed I couldn't get it because I wasn't made aware that it is free for everyone.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Okay I made a mistake. This one is on me I can admit it. I wrote per million people instead of death rate %. It makes sense that a country which has a lot more infections per million also has a lot more deaths per million.
(It is actually what I googled for, but failed to put into words as a non native speaker. My bad for the confusion)

Here is what I was trying to say :

biVSpTa.png


It is pretty clear that those case fatality rates are pretty close even though the US has a 8-10x Obesity rate compared to Japan/South Korea.

So the same amount of people (from the pool of infected) die and blaming obesity on people dying of Covid seems like a big reach.

I don't know enough about South Korea to comment in depth, but do keep in mind that Japan's testing has been extremely low since the outset of the pandemic as a matter of government policy.

Often their testing has not even been 1/10th of that of the US's even when viewed in proportion to their population, so a lot of their cases aren't even discovered until the person goes to a hospital.


They have also had some of the least hard restrictions of any country in the world when it comes to lockdowns, fines, etc.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
If every unvaccinated person was put on truth serum and given this poll as to why they didn't get the vaccine, what result would you think get the majority of the votes?

1. I'm concerned about the effects on my body either now or down the road.

2. Out of principle. People say I must take it, so I refuse to out of principle to show that my freedoms won't be infringed upon.

3. Spite. The political party opposite of mine are the ones pushing it, so I'm not just to stick it to them.

4. I just don't care about catching COVID nor do I fear what it can do to me, so I'm not going to waste my time getting a vaccine.

5. I simply don't trust the people saying it's safe and effective, and I won't take anything recommended by people I don't trust.

6. I want the vaccine, but I haven't been able to get it or don't know the proper procedures to get it or I assumed I couldn't get it because I wasn't made aware that it is free for everyone.
1 and 5 are the most common ones I hear.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
They have also had some of the least hard restrictions of any country in the world when it comes to lockdowns, fines, etc.
They don't have to because the society there is generally more compliant and has a greater emphasis on community protection and social awareness than Western countries like the USA. Masks, social distancing, and cleanliness are already culturally ingrained in the population without the government having to babysit them.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
They don't have to because the society there is generally more compliant and has a greater emphasis on community protection and social awareness than Western countries like the USA. Masks, social distancing, and cleanliness are already culturally ingrained in the population without the government having to babysit them.

As someone who has been there even during the pandemic, there ain't no social distancing happening in Tokyo.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
As someone who has been there even during the pandemic, there ain't no social distancing happening in Tokyo.
Tokyo is not all of Japan, and it's also one of the most populous and densely packed cities in the world. They do what they can, given that context, which is a lot more than any other similarly high density city in the West, and with less government coercion.
 
If every unvaccinated person was put on truth serum and given this poll as to why they didn't get the vaccine, what result would you think get the majority of the votes?

1. I'm concerned about the effects on my body either now or down the road.

2. Out of principle. People say I must take it, so I refuse to out of principle to show that my freedoms won't be infringed upon.

3. Spite. The political party opposite of mine are the ones pushing it, so I'm not just to stick it to them.

4. I just don't care about catching COVID nor do I fear what it can do to me, so I'm not going to waste my time getting a vaccine.

5. I simply don't trust the people saying it's safe and effective, and I won't take anything recommended by people I don't trust.

6. I want the vaccine, but I haven't been able to get it or don't know the proper procedures to get it or I assumed I couldn't get it because I wasn't made aware that it is free for everyone.
For me it's a mix of 1 and 5. Also 2 is becoming increasingly relevant, the 24/7 xeen propaganda is doing its thing.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
One of my bigger concerns:

If people already don't trust the public now, I hope that 99.9% number of people currently hospitalized and/or dead from COVID being unvaccinated is accurate. Because if at some point it comes out that that number is a lie, no one's ever going to trust them again for anything.

That's been the key stat driving home vaccination. That over 99% of people hospitalized with severe COVID or dead are not vaccinated. I hope it's accurate for many obvious reasons.

Sam Harris did a segment on his latest episode about it and I agree with some of his points. That while people have lost trust in the CDC, health experts about this, we need public trust in them, society depends on it. So, that has to start somewhere. It's untenable to have a society where half the people don't listen to anything they say anymore. Because if a virus far worse than COVID came along, we'd be fucked.
 
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If every unvaccinated person was put on truth serum and given this poll as to why they didn't get the vaccine, what result would you think get the majority of the votes?

1. I'm concerned about the effects on my body either now or down the road.

2. Out of principle. People say I must take it, so I refuse to out of principle to show that my freedoms won't be infringed upon.

3. Spite. The political party opposite of mine are the ones pushing it, so I'm not just to stick it to them.

4. I just don't care about catching COVID nor do I fear what it can do to me, so I'm not going to waste my time getting a vaccine.

5. I simply don't trust the people saying it's safe and effective, and I won't take anything recommended by people I don't trust.

6. I want the vaccine, but I haven't been able to get it or don't know the proper procedures to get it or I assumed I couldn't get it because I wasn't made aware that it is free for everyone.
1, 2 and 5 for me.

Fuck vaccine passports and anyone who is for them. If you want to live in a surveillance state, move to N. Korea.

I'd rather be dead.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
One of my bigger concerns:

If people already don't trust the public now, I hope that 99.9% number of people currently hospitalized and/or dead from COVID being unvaccinated is accurate. Because if at some point it comes out that that number is a lie, no one's ever going to trust them again for anything.

That's been the key stat driving home vaccination. That over 99% of people hospitalized with severe COVID or dead are not vaccinated. I hope it's accurate for many obvious reasons.

Sam Harris did a segment on his latest episode about it and I agree with some of his points. That while people have lost trust in the CDC, health experts about this, we need public trust in them, society depends on it. So, that has to start somewhere. It's untenable to have a society where half the people don't listen to anything they say anymore. Because if a virus far worse than COVID came along, we'd be fucked.
It's not a lie, but it doesn't take into consideration the changes on the ground over time, like prevalence of vaccinations or prevalence of variants. If you want a more time-relevant snapshot of the situation, you'd need to analyze the numbers in a shorter, more recent timeframe.

Here are some posts I've made on the matter that will provide insight.






 
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