Support NeoGAF

[Taxexemption]

One of my bigger concerns:

If people already don't trust the public now, I hope that 99.9% number of people currently hospitalized and/or dead from COVID being unvaccinated is accurate. Because if at some point it comes out that that number is a lie, no one's ever going to trust them again for anything.

That's been the key stat driving home vaccination. That over 99% of people hospitalized with severe COVID or dead are not vaccinated. I hope it's accurate for many obvious reasons.

Sam Harris did a segment on his latest episode about it and I agree with some of his points. That while people have lost trust in the CDC, health experts about this, we need public trust in them, society depends on it. So, that has to start somewhere. It's untenable to have a society where half the people don't listen to anything they say anymore. Because if a virus far worse than COVID came along, we'd be fucked.

They don't act like adults though. Fauci knowingly lied about masks, then he did not resign. We are supposed to listen to a known liar, it's ridiculous.


Do you think that any of our elected officials or their appointees are the best this country has to offer? Even in the top 10%? Or do they have connections, and know the right people, and exist in a social paradigm that the vast majority of people don't understand and don't have access to?


Furthermore what should you expect? This system is supposedly racist, sexist, anti-gay, and a few of every dollar you pay in taxes goes to bomb poor foreigners for fun and profit. Or at least that's what I've heard since I was a kid. This is something people need to understand. You can't spend the last 5-6 years telling us our government is evil and oppressing people, and then be like "Yeah, but it's trying to save your life right now." Damage was done with rhetoric on both the right and the left. The people who want us to take action lack credibility, and in many cases are the same people who in the past loudly talked about how they would like to lower the earth's population.


The left in America has a reputational problem, they have supported politics that would lead people to not trusting the government, especially on this issue.

 

[poppabk]

Sam Harris did a segment on his latest episode about it and I agree with some of his points. That while people have lost trust in the CDC, health experts about this, we need public trust in them, society depends on it. So, that has to start somewhere. It's untenable to have a society where half the people don't listen to anything they say anymore. Because if a virus far worse than COVID came along, we'd be fucked.

This could be almost verbatim from the Trump election threads.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

They don't act like adults though. Fauci knowingly lied about masks, then he did not resign. We are supposed to listen to a known liar, it's ridiculous.


Do you think that any of our elected officials or their appointees are the best this country has to offer? Even in the top 10%? Or do they have connections, and know the right people, and exist in a social paradigm that the vast majority of people don't understand and don't have access to?


Furthermore what should you expect? This system is supposedly racist, sexist, anti-gay, and a few of every dollar you pay in taxes goes to bomb poor foreigners for fun and profit. Or at least that's what I've heard since I was a kid. This is something people need to understand. You can't spend the last 5-6 years telling us our government is evil and oppressing people, and then be like "Yeah, but it's trying to save your life right now." Damage was done with rhetoric on both the right and the left. The people who want us to take action lack credibility, and in many cases are the same people who in the past loudly talked about how they would like to lower the earth's population.


The left in America has a reputational problem, they have supported politics that would lead people to not trusting the government, especially on this issue.

I mean, this shit wasn't even a year ago.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

In other news:

CDC adds Israel to highest-risk countries for catching Covid-19

Agency advises Americans to avoid travel to Israel unless absolutely necessary

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Rentahamster]

Dr. John annoyed at politicians who think they know better than their own state pediatricians.

 

[vpance]

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Hear hear, Dr Fauci. It's time to mandate the anti vax movement stay in their homes until they decide to be grown adults and rejoin the rest of society by being vaccinated.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I mean, this shit wasn't even a year ago.

Literally every one of those comments was answering the question of if Donald Trump should be allowed to bypass FDA approval. Which would obviously be a terrible idea and undermine public trust in vaccines.

How can you honestly make such a dishonest comparison and expect anyone to take you seriously? I'm pretty sure you've had this pointed out to you before, I think in this very thread. You know it's wrong, but you trot it out when you think you're talking to someone dumb enough to fall for the lack of context. That doesn't come off as an earnest argument, you know?

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Hear hear, Dr Fauci. It's time to mandate the anti vax movement stay in their homes until they decide to be grown adults and rejoin the rest of society by being vaccinated.

Why don't you move to North Korea instead? You seem like you would enjoy it there.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Why don't you move to North Korea instead? You seem like you would enjoy it there.

Because I love America. I love it so much I served in wartime and deployed to a warzone to protect it. Why won't you do what is necessary to defend America? You must hate this country so much. Why? Why do you want to see it weakened so much? What ulterior motives do you truly have here?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Looks like many workers threatened to quit if they were forced against their will to get the xeen injected into their body. And the threat worked. Good for them!

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Because I love America. I love it so much I served in wartime and deployed to a warzone to protect it. Why won't you do what is necessary to defend America?

A) I'm not American

B) Locking people up so that I feel safe isn't protecting a country, it's complete and utter entitlement.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

A) I'm not American

B) Locking people up so that I feel safe isn't protecting a country, it's complete and utter entitlement.

Nobody said lock them up. They are free to remain in their homes until they want to be contributing members of society again. Nobody is going to jail.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Because I love America. I love it so much I served in wartime and deployed to a warzone to protect it. Why won't you do what is necessary to defend America? You must hate this country so much. Why? Why do you want to see it weakened so much? What ulterior motives do you truly have here?

You need to take a step back and take several deep breaths holy crap. You took the discussion about 14 steps farther than it needed to go.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Nobody said lock them up. They are free to remain in their homes until they want to be contributing members of society again.

You do realise you just contradicted yourself. It's people like you that are exactly why there is resistance in the first place.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

You do realise you just contradicted yourself. It's people like you that are exactly why there is resistance in the first place.

No, there is resistance because they are severely misinformed and actively obstinate. Let's not get it twisted here, these people were resistant long before anyone was calling for mandatory anything. You know this for a fact because they started before the vaccine even existed.

 

[ManaByte]

.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Literally every one of those comments was answering the question of if Donald Trump should be allowed to bypass FDA approval. Which would obviously be a terrible idea and undermine public trust in vaccines.

How can you honestly make such a dishonest comparison and expect anyone to take you seriously? I'm pretty sure you've had this pointed out to you before, I think in this very thread. You know it's wrong, but you trot it out when you think you're talking to someone dumb enough to fall for the lack of context. That doesn't come off as an earnest argument, you know?

You're not telling the truth, but that's nothing new.

Sources for each clip:







(first couple of minutes)



https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/09/03/q-and-a-with-former-vice-president-joe-biden/ @4:18

https://fb.watch/7iQmhVFU5v/ (couldn't find the relevant Inslee interview clip online for whatever reason, but here he is casting doubt on the CDC)

Gov. Cuomo: 'I'm Not Going To Trust The Federal Government's Opinion' On Potential Approved COVID-19 Vaccine

The governor says New York state will have its own health officials to screen any federally approved vaccine.

newyork.cbslocal.com

https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking...n-cautions-against-repeating-testing-mistakes (couldn't find a video for Patty Murray, but here's her transcript)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/audio-rush-transcript-governor-cuomo-guest-msnbcs-reid-out-joy-reid (Cuomo: "Look, I don't trust the President and I don't trust the FDA.") and audio here:




So, no, I don't think a single one of those is in the context of whether or not "Donald Trump should be allowed to bypass FDA approval." Feel free to provide your own receipts, though.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

No, there is resistance because they are severely misinformed and actively obstinate. Let's not get it twisted here, these people were resistant long before anyone was calling for mandatory anything. You know this for a fact because they started before the vaccine even existed.

Gee I wonder why someone would be obstinate when people like you are demanding they be locked up unless they do what you say......

 

[SF Kosmo]

You're not telling the truth, but that's nothing new.

Sources for each clip:







(first couple of minutes)



https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/09/03/q-and-a-with-former-vice-president-joe-biden/ @4:18

https://fb.watch/7iQmhVFU5v/ (couldn't find the relevant Inslee interview clip online for whatever reason, but here he is casting doubt on the CDC)

Gov. Cuomo: 'I'm Not Going To Trust The Federal Government's Opinion' On Potential Approved COVID-19 Vaccine

The governor says New York state will have its own health officials to screen any federally approved vaccine.

newyork.cbslocal.com

https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking...n-cautions-against-repeating-testing-mistakes (couldn't find a video for Patty Murray, but here's her transcript)

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/audio-rush-transcript-governor-cuomo-guest-msnbcs-reid-out-joy-reid (Cuomo: "Look, I don't trust the President and I don't trust the FDA.") and audio here:




So, no, I don't think a single one of those is in the context of whether or not "Donald Trump should be allowed to bypass FDA approval." Feel free to provide your own receipts, though.

I think the Cuomo one is really unfortunately worded (although he does make it clear that he's worried about the Trump administration pressuring the FDA to approve it prematurely), but I have to wonder if you've watched the rest of these, because they're pretty much exactly what I said. And the context of all of these are reports at the time that Trump was going to try to push a vaccine out before election day rather than allowing the trials to complete.

This is made really explicit in most of the full clips here where they say they absolutely would take the vaccine if it completes a rigorous scientific review, but that they are concerned about politics corrupting that process.

 

[Rentahamster]

New data (not peer reviewed), shows a correlation between vaccination rate and mutation frequency in various countries. This is the effect that I've brought up before. Give the virus room to spread, and it has more chances to replicate. More replications = more mutations.

Full vaccination suppresses SARS-CoV-2 delta variant mutation frequency

This study presents the first evidence that full vaccination against COVID-19 suppresses emergent mutations of SARS-CoV-2 delta variants. An evolution algorithm, Tajima’s D test with a threshold value as -2.50, can provide a promising tool to forecast new COVID-19 outbreaks. Question It remains...

www.medrxiv.org

This study presents the first evidence that full vaccination against COVID-19 suppresses emergent mutations of SARS-CoV-2 delta variants.

 

[ManaByte]

New data (not peer reviewed), shows a correlation between vaccination rate and mutation frequency in various countries. This is the effect that I've brought up before. Give the virus room to spread, and it has more chances to replicate. More replications = more mutations.

Full vaccination suppresses SARS-CoV-2 delta variant mutation frequency

This study presents the first evidence that full vaccination against COVID-19 suppresses emergent mutations of SARS-CoV-2 delta variants. An evolution algorithm, Tajima’s D test with a threshold value as -2.50, can provide a promising tool to forecast new COVID-19 outbreaks. Question It remains...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think the Cuomo one is really unfortunately worded (although he does make it clear that he's worried about the Trump administration pressuring the FDA to approve it prematurely), but I have to wonder if you've watched the rest of these, because they're pretty much exactly what I said. And the context of all of these are stories that people were afraid Trump was going to try to push a vaccine out before election day rather than allowing the trials to complete.

This is made really explicit in most of the full clips here where they say they absolutely would take the vaccine if it completes a rigorous scientific review, but that they are concerned about politics corrupting that process.

It all comes back to assuming that those in the government may be compromised and acting with ulterior motives. I agreed with them then and it was cool to do so while Trump was in office, but not anymore now that the good guys are in town. It's beyond transparent.

 

[SF Kosmo]

It all comes back to assuming that those in the government may be compromised and acting with ulterior motives. I agreed with them then and it was cool to do so while Trump was in office, but not anymore now that the good guys are in town. It's beyond transparent.

They didn't change their mind because Trump left office, though. They changed their mind because the data was released and reviewed, and it didn't come at a time that was politically expedient to those in power.

Short version: Yes, people were worried a thing would happen, but then the thing didn't happen. So they chose to live in reality rather than holding on to a failed prediction after the fact (like a certain ex-President).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

They didn't change their mind because Trump left office, though. They changed their mind because the data was released and reviewed, and it didn't come at a time that was politically expedient to those in power.

Data being released after the election was over was not politically expedient? Anyway, we're not going to see eye to eye on this, so I'll just drop it.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Data being released after the election was over was not politically expedient?

Not for the person who was in office... the one people worried would corrupt the process... Are we playing time travel games now? Or are you just saying that any timing has political consequences? (True, but not sure the point in this context...)

I get worries about the future. I don't get why some people act like we're still living in 2020 and we can just ignore everything that has happened since. The vaccines work, they're safe, short, medium, and long-term. Let's get on with life, now.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

When a company is only willing to let people "get on with life" if they are given indemnification from side effects and lawsuits.....I'm not going to trust that company.

Pfizer, Moderna, Serum & the indemnity issue; what is it and what it means for India?

Foreign pharma majors, such as Pfizer and Moderna, have said that they will export their COVID-19 vaccines to India only if the deal is the Indian government and the company is guarded against legal cases for any severe side effects

www.businesstoday.in

 

[Jaysen]

If only it wasn’t so easy to influence morons.

 

[ManaByte]

When a company is only willing to let people "get on with life" if they are given indemnification from side effects and lawsuits.....I'm not going to trust that company.

Pfizer, Moderna, Serum & the indemnity issue; what is it and what it means for India?

Foreign pharma majors, such as Pfizer and Moderna, have said that they will export their COVID-19 vaccines to India only if the deal is the Indian government and the company is guarded against legal cases for any severe side effects

www.businesstoday.in

Based on the amount of bullshit in VAERS (i.e. turning into the Incredible Hulk from the vaccine), people will make up any bullshit to sue a big company like that.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Based on the amount of bullshit in VAERS (i.e. turning into the Incredible Hulk from the vaccine), people will make up any bullshit to sue a big company like that.

You seem to be implying that all the verified side effects that have been documented (including death) are made up.

 

[ManaByte]

You seem to be implying that all the verified side effects that have been documented (including death) are made up.

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination

Rare instances of adverse events following COVID-19 vaccinations have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

www.cdc.gov

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 346 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 2, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,490 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

Anyone can post ANYTHING into VAERS. It's like Wikipedia or IMDB. There's no verification for anything in there.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination

Rare instances of adverse events following COVID-19 vaccinations have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

www.cdc.gov

Anyone can post ANYTHING into VAERS. It's like Wikipedia or IMDB. There's no verification for anything in there.

You're right. It's much better to trust places like CNN and the NYT. They always tell the truth.

For the record, I don't even know what VAERS is.

 

[Taxexemption]

Based on the amount of bullshit in VAERS (i.e. turning into the Incredible Hulk from the vaccine), people will make up any bullshit to sue a big company like that.

Cry me a river for big corporations who can afford to have attorneys on retainer to deal with this stuff.


"Oh someone think of the corporations and the billionaires,"-This is what you sound like.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Gee I wonder why someone would be obstinate when people like you are demanding they be locked up unless they do what you say......

Again, didn't say locked up. Keep making things up to argue points I didn't make.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Again, didn't say locked up. Keep making things up to argue points I didn't make.

You want to confine people to their homes until they do what you say. That is locking them up. Stop lying.

Were you really in the military? You must have been part of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" conference.

 

[ManaByte]

You're right. It's much better to trust places like CNN and the NYT. They always tell the truth.

For the record, I don't even know what VAERS is.

Did I post anything from CNN or the NYT? That's the CDC's site.

VAERS is the IMDB for vaccines.

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Did I post anything from CNN or the NYT? That's the CDC's site.

Same difference.

 

[Kilau]

You want to confine people to their homes until they do what you say. That is locking them up. Stop lying.

Were you really in the military? You must have been part of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" conference.

Weren't the reports out of China that they were welding people's doors shut? Seems more effective than a lock.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Again, didn't say locked up. Keep making things up to argue points I didn't make.

No, it sounds like a solution. You don't want to be a part of the solution? You can crawl back into your house and sit there forever until you decide to be a grown up adult and do what's right for society at large. The day is coming when you won't be allowed out without a vaccine. We will return to normal with or without you.

 

[Jaysen]

Same difference.

What a load of stupid shit.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Same difference.

This is straight up willful stupidity.



The CDC is an officially sanctioned government entity. Trying to put their information on the same level as something like the New York Times or CNN is intentional ignorance at best and just trolling at worst.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Some people who got vaccinated are getting pretty sick, but they also recover way faster than non-vaccinated and don’t get as sick, even if they get really sick.

my vaccinated immuno compromised friend got really sick for two days and stayed in a hospital on a breather that long. My unvaccinated “healthy” married friends were both obliterated for two weeks. The vaccinated friend got sick almost two weeks after them and recovered before them.

if you are not vaccinated, you made a bad decision.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

Where did I say locked up? Locked up implies jail time. I have never advocated for that, but keep trying to twist my statements to fit your false narratives. Meanwhile COVID is ravaging the county.

Also:

Multiple lawsuits, all major school districts in Texas defying Governor on masks COVID

Fuck Abbott and these spineless ISDs that won't protect our kids. Like Alvin Isd, where my kids are going. They sent out a letter saying they respect all parents right and that masks are encouraged but not mandatory. Fucking cowards.

www.resetera.com

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Where did I say locked up? Locked up implies jail time. I have never advocated for that

You did. Locking people up at home is called house arrest. You want them to stay locked up until they do what you say. The level of entitlement is psychotic.

Also, linking to resetera...lol

 

[Rock And Roll]

Where did I say locked up? Locked up implies jail time. I have never advocated for that, but keep trying to twist my statements to fit your false narratives. Meanwhile COVID is ravaging the county.

Also:

Multiple lawsuits, all major school districts in Texas defying Governor on masks COVID

Fuck Abbott and these spineless ISDs that won't protect our kids. Like Alvin Isd, where my kids are going. They sent out a letter saying they respect all parents right and that masks are encouraged but not mandatory. Fucking cowards.

www.resetera.com

You sound like Fauci trying to weasel his way out of defining gain of function research.

Posting a link from Era, well at least now we know why you seem to be an unhinged psychopath.

 

[Infiltrator Irelia]

You want to confine people to their homes until they do what you say. That is locking them up. Stop lying.

Were you really in the military? You must have been part of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" conference.

I served in the way on terror in a war zone. What have you done for your country?

You did. Locking people up at home is called house arrest. You want them to stay locked up until they do what you say. The level of entitlement is psychotic.

Also, linking to resetera...lol

Nope. Never ever ever advocated for jailing people. Keep making shit up, that's all your side ever does.

 

[ManaByte]

that's all your side ever does

 

[ArgleBargleFooferah]

Nope. Never ever ever advocated for jailing people. Keep making shit up, that's all your side ever does.

You did, and we both know it, but now we know you're just a resetera troll. So bugger off back to the nuthouse.

 

[12Goblins]

stop with the personal bickering. nobody wants to read that shit

 

[ManaByte]