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[Bernd Lauert]

See, that’s not good enough. You can’t just make a claim like that, without having evidence to back it up. Are you in the educational field? Can you point to examples of the things you’re intimating?

This thread could do with a lot less of these empty assertions.

I could start with the good old sugar lobby paying scientists to say "sugar good, fat bad" and the vast implications of that for the health of hundreds of millions of people and then move up the timeline with many examples until today, but wouldn't that kinda derail the thread?

 

[Punished Miku]

You're right, and the bolded is exactly what I'm doing. I'm gonna wait for more long-term information to come out before taking the xeen. Until then, I'm going to stick with my current heuristic (young, healthy? don't take it. old, fat, any lung and/or heart conditions? take it).

That's fine. I wasn't really trying to criticize your personal life stuff.

At the end of the day, people have two bad options to pick from in my opinion: 1) roll the dice on long-term vaccine effects, 2) roll the dice on long-term COVID effects. It's a mystery either way, because it's a new virus, so no one has any info on long term effects, period. Pick your poison, because it will likely be one or the other.

Me personally, I had no problem going with option 1 because there's already some speculation about long-term COVID effects, the present risk is so much higher with COVID than any immediate effects from a vaccine, the risk to other people is zero with a vaccine but very high with COVID, and acting aggressively early on COVID will limit mutations before an effective vaccine is no longer an option in 10 years. And just my personal opinion, if this thing did come from a lab leak, I definitely don't want to rely on my natural immunity alone to combat some super-virus engineered to be more effective than normal.

Once its FDA approved though, I personally think there's no doubt that restrictions will just get tighter for the unvaccinated. Fair or not, that's coming for sure.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[FunkMiller]

I could start with the good old sugar lobby paying scientists to say "sugar good, fat bad" and the vast implications of that for the health of hundreds of millions of people and then move up the timeline with many examples until today, but wouldn't that kinda derail the thread?

Well, yes. It would. But how does the sugar industry have anything to do with the education sector? I don’t mind discussing something if there’s merit to it, but “universities bad because money” doesn’t really provide a good position from which to argue.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I think it's genetic engineering with the nanotechnologies involved as they are. And if that's too far out then just look at Elon Musk talking about implanting computerchips into people's brains sometime next year. They're very fond of crossing people over with computers. Of cutting people off from their natural self and natural blueprint.

It's all about control in the end. They are just seeing how far they can take it and the answer seems to be pretty damn far with the crazy rules that are now in place and that some people seem to be okay with.

Make people WANT this vaccine by manipulation. Take it so you can have your freedom back! Take it so you don't die! Take it so nobody else dies! Take it because we say so! Take it because you'll get free stuff in return.

And whoever dies or whatsoever side effects it may have, make them believe it's better than the virus. Skew the numbers in favor of whatever you want to achieve and then silence all other voices and opinions and warning.

It's a sad state of things but people make their own choices. Just be sure to make a choice that is completely yours and not manipulated or influenced. You can't just blindly trust anything or anyone. No matter how well they dress it up. They've got ages of experience with psychological manipulation and control of the masses. We just sleepin'

The top is united that's why they all agree. Underneath that is the theater and underneath that is us underground, hearing the music and believing the guy who comes down to tell us what's really going on above. But he's been bought and is feeding us whatever they tell him.

What in the world....

 

[FunkMiller]

What in the world....

The only recorded thing faster than the speed of light in our universe was the mods banning him after reading that post

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Well, yes. It would. But how does the sugar industry have anything to do with the education sector?

That sector is where the science-ing happens.

I don’t mind discussing something if there’s merit to it, but “universities bad because money” doesn’t really provide a good position from which to argue.

Idk, saying something like "politics bad because money" also makes a lot of sense to me. When you need money (and you absolutely need money in academia), you do what the money givers tell you to do. It's basic corruption.

 

[Jaysen]

Lol but that won’t stop dipshits from thinking they know more than actual scientists and doctors.

Dipshits like these fine people threatening the lives of doctors who are simply trying to keep their kids healthy and safe:

 

[SF Kosmo]

Is viral load factor?

We think so.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Lol but that won’t stop dipshits from thinking they know more than actual scientists and doctors.

Dipshits like these fine people threatening the lives of doctors who are simply trying to keep their kids healthy and safe:

I never like taking random videos from social media as evidence we’re totally fucked but…goddamn

 

[12Goblins]

Whenever you have rigid hierarchies and literally everything depends on money, you have corruption. It's the reason why politics are bad too.

but you see you can make that argument about literally everything though. you just pick and choose which ones you like (or mainly, don't understand).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think you misread what he’s saying. He’s not saying the unvaccinated are not at higher risk themselves. He’s saying they’re not at higher to others. Whether you agree with that is an open question.

What really bothers me are articles like this:

From increased hospitalizations to long Covid, children can get hit hard by Covid-19. Here’s why doctors say kids should be protected | CNN

Covid-19 hospitalizations among children are rising. Doctors say keeping kids Covid-free is critical to ensure in-person learning, prevent long-term complications and help stave off more aggressive variants for everyone.

www.cnn.com

That is just such a completely misleading way of framing that comparison. It’s meant solely to scare parents about to send their kids to school.

Let’s refer to the CDC themselves:

2019-20 Season’s Pediatric Flu Deaths Tie High Mark Set During 2017-18 Season | CDC

Everything you need to know about the flu illness, including symptoms, treatment and prevention.

www.cdc.gov

We're also in our 4th big wave of COVID vs. one season of influenza. Nonsensical comparison, but if anything, it makes COVID look way less lethal in children, because it is.

 

[Kraz]

Lol but that won’t stop dipshits from thinking they know more than actual scientists and doctors.

Dipshits like these fine people threatening the lives of doctors who are simply trying to keep their kids healthy and safe:

Fractious Plague Chets.

Health mandates are needed to be spoken for when required.

Who knows who, and who takes care of you when you're sick too?

 

[Punished Miku]

‘I am furious with myself’: Unvaccinated Covid patient describes the exhausting illness | CNN

Sitting in her hospital room in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Aimee Matzen struggled to breathe as she described how exhausting it is to have Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

"There were 140 Covid-19 patients at Our Lady of the Lake as of Thursday, 30 of whom had been admitted over the previous 24 hours -- the most since the pandemic began, according to a hospital spokesperson.
Almost 50% of the patients are under age 50. Fifty patients are in the ICU, and 11 of them are children.

Morgan Babin, a registered nurse who has worked in the hospital's Covid-19 ICU since March 2020, told CNN the ICU's population has been rising rapidly with patients who are younger and sicker.
"They were my age, my coworkers' age -- 30s, 40s," she said. "It made me scared for my own health as well as my community."

I get to hear briefings from one of the state medical directors of a govt. agency, and this matches what they're seeing as well where I live. They're reporting that elective procedures are about to be cancelled, and staff are experiencing significant mental health exhaustion with the deaths of younger patients hitting them harder. Heard that yesterday in a meeting. They're not able to staff up to meet the need because staff are burning out, not picking up the overtime, or finding other jobs entirely.

 

[Guileless]

Increasing hospitalization share of under 50s people makes sense because a larger percentage of older people are vaccinated than under 50s. Last year it was mostly oldsters because they were most vulnerable to severe illness. That is basic math even I can understand. It does not necessarily mean delta causes more severe illness.

 

[Jaysen]

Increasing hospitalization share of under 50s people makes sense because a larger percentage of older people are vaccinated than under 50s. Last year it was mostly oldsters because they were most vulnerable to severe illness. That is basic math even I can understand. It does not necessarily mean delta causes more severe illness.

It means relaxing restrictions is leading to hospitals getting overrun by people who wouldn’t ordinarily have needed it last year. It also demonstrates the importance of getting vaccinated.

 

[Kraz]

That sector is where the science-ing happens.

Idk, saying something like "politics bad because money" also makes a lot of sense to me. When you need money (and you absolutely need money in academia), you do what the money givers tell you to do. It's basic corruption.

These hypotheticals need people to make money so to grift and not have to flip their own pillows, wipe their ass and entertain them. The vaccine is safe.

As pointed out USA has world class institutions and the massive framework of reciprocal support that requires. The scale and scope is immense.

Those at the helm in politics can only do so much in directing industries. Even with all political power in office. There's the underlying state of things where everybody lives and works and plays.

If anything, as a foreigner looking at the USA after the last couple decades. The resilience of reliability across political changes is there to be seen. There's shakeups where it's obvious things aren't going well. Those were some huge shifts in core power. You're a common people on a very strong ship. I trust USA vaccines, the best standards, ethics and the science of it.

If politics tries to force or suppress science to conform to policy and won't offer their science models for review before implementation that's where the corruption bells go off where I would be more cautious.

 

[SF Kosmo]

‘I am furious with myself’: Unvaccinated Covid patient describes the exhausting illness | CNN

Sitting in her hospital room in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Aimee Matzen struggled to breathe as she described how exhausting it is to have Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

I get to hear briefings from one of the state medical directors of a govt. agency, and this matches what they're seeing as well where I live. They're reporting that elective procedures are about to be cancelled, and staff are experiencing significant mental health exhaustion with the deaths of younger patients hitting them harder. Heard that yesterday in a meeting. They're not able to staff up to meet the need because staff are burning out, not picking up the overtime, or finding other jobs entirely.

Yeah and this is what I was trying to say to Hulk_Smash about people who act like vaccination is a decision that only affects them personally rather than everyone who depends on the healthcare system. I think people tend to see healthcare as this infinite resource, and aren't appreciating the extent to which they are placing a cumulative burden on everyone else by refusing vaccination.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Hell yeah. Finally, some people actually standing up for the children instead of just whining about it on FB. Making kids wear masks is the single most fucked up retarded ass decision in this whole mess. They DON'T keep them on. They fidget with them all the time. They DON'T wash them. They wear the same ones every day. They simply do not work. My wife is an elementary school teacher and the vast majority of teachers are HAPPY the kids don't have to wear them again this year.

I don't care if the cases have gone up, they are still the least effected age bracket, variants included. This is political pandering and has nothing to do with keeping children safe. Several counties in my state were going to require masks including the county I live in and then the mountain of complaints started pouring in so they held an open forum and then voted to make them optional. Since when is "science" up for a vote? This is happening in counties all over our nation and it shows you that the local politicians are putting their fingers in the air to test the political winds and making their decisions based on that and that alone.

But, hey, keep the free publicity up for homeschooling and private schooling. My girls are in a private school and I couldn't be happier with the massive influx of new students we've had the past two years. Our teachers got a raise, we have new building projects on the horizon. There's a waiting list to get into the school now for the first time. Actually, you know what? I change my mind. I would love to see kids wearing masks in public schools this year and every year until the end of time!

 

[dcll]

Lol but that won’t stop dipshits from thinking they know more than actual scientists and doctors.

Dipshits like these fine people threatening the lives of doctors who are simply trying to keep their kids healthy and safe:

These people are acting like antifa and blm goons

 

[Jaysen]

These people are acting like antifa and blm goons

And you’re acting like a complete moron. Hopefully it’s just acting.

 

[Kraz]

I see some of the things Tennessee has been doing at the state and local levels

July 12, 2021

Tennessee fires top vaccine official as COVID-19 shows signs of new spread

Tennessee fired Dr. Michelle Fiscus, its top vaccine official. as the COVID-19 delta variant spreads and the state dials back teen vaccination efforts

www.tennessean.com

recent

Williamson County Schools board votes to require masks in elementary schools during raucous meeting

The Williamson County Schools Board of Education voted to require masks for students, staff and visitors at the elementary school level inside buildings.

www.tennessean.com

Local boards are trying to keep their institutions safe. Wonder how much liability they'd have if they didn't. Whatever the motivation, it's good to see them keeping the places safe and listening to professionals and not a hysterical mob.

 

[poppabk]

Can I ask this question. Is it not fair to say that vaccination of the entire world's population is not going to work?

Is it even possible to vaccinate our world's population before new variants emerge?

How long would it take to vaccinate the entire world?

What is the end goal here? Heard immunity?

When is it safe to say, no more lock downs and now you can live as you were pre covid?

Surely the smart people predicted that not everyone would get vaccinated. Due to health reasons, access, availability, choice or stubbornness or misinformation. So does that mean you begin force vaccinating people?

Would it have made sense to possible tackle this with a 2 prong approach? I raise this as are outpatient treatments not on the table for discussion?

I have so many questions to this approach. What are people's thoughts?

The simple answer is you can go back to normal and live as you were pre-COVID when that is possible. We were literally there until Delta hit, I hadn't worn a mask in a store, movie theater, packed to capacity restaurant, vacation spot, pool etc for months. But once the hospitalization rate starts pushing surgeries back, burning out medical staff etc, then you have to do something.

 

[dcll]

And you’re acting like a complete moron. Hopefully it’s just acting.

So harassing doctors isn’t the same
as the crap Antifa and BLM people do when they harass people?

 

[Jaysen]

So harassing doctors isn’t the same
as the crap Antifa and BLM people do when they harass people?

Look at you trying so hard. It’s cute.

 

[dcll]

No clue what you are talking about but I can see this is pointless trying to get you to explain so I won’t ask anymore

 

[HawksWinStanley]

That's the move. Bring a few facts to the table for anybody who takes the time to second guess what you're saying and then sprinkle on a heavy helping of bullshit and then serve. Idiots eat it right up.

 

[Rentahamster]

Whenever you have rigid hierarchies and literally everything depends on money, you have corruption. It's the reason why politics are bad too.

That's capitalism, bro. Do you have an alternative?

 

[Rentahamster]

At the end of the day, people have two bad options to pick from in my opinion: 1) roll the dice on long-term vaccine effects, 2) roll the dice on long-term COVID effects. It's a mystery either way, because it's a new virus, so no one has any info on long term effects, period.

Well, we already know long haul COVID is a thing. There's a lot more evidence for long term side effects of a COVID infection than any long term effects from the vaccine.

New Long-Haul COVID Clinics Treat Mysterious and Ongoing Symptoms

Coordinating care among different specialties could help patients with many problems and no proved therapies

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[12Goblins]

Hell yeah. Finally, some people actually standing up for the children instead of just whining about it on FB. Making kids wear masks is the single most fucked up retarded ass decision in this whole mess. They DON'T keep them on. They fidget with them all the time. They DON'T wash them. They wear the same ones every day. They simply do not work. My wife is an elementary school teacher and the vast majority of teachers are HAPPY the kids don't have to wear them again this year.

I don't care if the cases have gone up, they are still the least effected age bracket, variants included. This is political pandering and has nothing to do with keeping children safe. Several counties in my state were going to require masks including the county I live in and then the mountain of complaints started pouring in so they held an open forum and then voted to make them optional. Since when is "science" up for a vote? This is happening in counties all over our nation and it shows you that the local politicians are putting their fingers in the air to test the political winds and making their decisions based on that and that alone.

But, hey, keep the free publicity up for homeschooling and private schooling. My girls are in a private school and I couldn't be happier with the massive influx of new students we've had the past two years. Our teachers got a raise, we have new building projects on the horizon. There's a waiting list to get into the school now for the first time. Actually, you know what? I change my mind. I would love to see kids wearing masks in public schools this year and every year until the end of time!

bruh it's just a mask

also i see that you still don't understand how they work after all this time

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Hell yeah. Finally, some people actually standing up for the children instead of just whining about it on FB. Making kids wear masks is the single most fucked up retarded ass decision in this whole mess. They DON'T keep them on. They fidget with them all the time. They DON'T wash them. They wear the same ones every day. They simply do not work. My wife is an elementary school teacher and the vast majority of teachers are HAPPY the kids don't have to wear them again this year.

French paediatrics community just demolished recommendations for masks for kids age 2 and up, it’s shocking they could have asked a single parent to determine the idea is unworkable.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[poppabk]

Hell yeah. Finally, some people actually standing up for the children instead of just whining about it on FB.

How is threatening medical professionals AFTER the meeting standing up for their children?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Again with the data going back to December... fucking propaganda.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Lol but that won’t stop dipshits from thinking they know more than actual scientists and doctors.

Dipshits like these fine people threatening the lives of doctors who are simply trying to keep their kids healthy and safe:

This is fucking ridiculous. Hopefully the police get involved. You cannot just casually throw out threats like that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Another reason why I'm playing wait and see.

New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta

A senior Biden official called the preprint study "a wakeup call."

www.axios.com

May the best vaxx win in the end.

 

[Jaysen]

No clue what you are talking about but I can see this is pointless trying to get you to explain so I won’t ask anymore

Talking about you attempting to politicize this shit when people of all political beliefs are anti vax. Also comparing people who were asking not to be killed with people who are now threatening the lives of people who are attempting to save lives is beyond fucking stupid. But you know that.

 

[Jaysen]

Another reason why I'm playing wait and see.

New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta

A senior Biden official called the preprint study "a wakeup call."

www.axios.com

May the best vaxx win in the end.

More big brain logic on display.

 

[12Goblins]

I see we are still looking for things to misinterpret so that we can confirm our dumbass worldviews

fauci even explains it in the video. all you have to do is listen. ebola is not transmissible during it's incubation period (vast contrast to Sars coV 2)

but we'll keep trying

 

[Punished Miku]

Another reason why I'm playing wait and see.

New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta

A senior Biden official called the preprint study "a wakeup call."

www.axios.com

May the best vaxx win in the end.

"In a statement, Pfizer said it and BioNTech "expect to be able to develop and produce a tailor-made vaccine against that variant in approximately 100 days after a decision to do so, subject to regulatory approval.""

I'm just waiting for the booster. It will likely be an updated version that's more effective anyway. But yeah, interesting study. Seems that the higher dose of Moderna might be a potential difference between the two. Pfizer is a lower dose across 2 weeks, and Moderna a larger dose with a month between.

 

[Rentahamster]

Another reason why I'm playing wait and see.

New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta

A senior Biden official called the preprint study "a wakeup call."

www.axios.com

May the best vaxx win in the end.

What does playing wait and see have to do with a vaccine's effectiveness? The wait and see approach is mostly about concerns of long term side effects.

Both vaccines are better than nothing, as the article notes, and a much better option compared to getting COVID in the short term.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"In a statement, Pfizer said it and BioNTech "expect to be able to develop and produce a tailor-made vaccine against that variant in approximately 100 days after a decision to do so, subject to regulatory approval.""

I'm just waiting for the booster. It will likely be an updated version that's more effective anyway. But yeah, interesting study. Seems that the higher dose of Moderna might be a potential difference between the two. Pfizer is a lower dose across 2 weeks, and Moderna a larger dose with a month between.

Yeah, I'm going to see where the chips fall and get whatever looks to be the best at the last possible moment if it still makes sense to do so.

 

[FunkMiller]

Another reason why I'm playing wait and see.

New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta

A senior Biden official called the preprint study "a wakeup call."

www.axios.com

May the best vaxx win in the end.

Wait for peer review before drawing any conclusions. And nothing in that article suggests any reason not to get vaccinated anyway.

Also this: “There has been no data so far that has found either vaccine's protection against severe disease and death is significantly less against Delta”

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Wait for peer review before drawing any conclusions.

Would be nice if you exercised that same level of caution in regards to certain other posts in this thread...

 

[FunkMiller]

Would be nice if you exercised that same level of caution in regards to certain other posts in this thread...

What? Any information I use in my arguments about Covid effectiveness is always from peer reviewed sources, including government figures.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

My question for the pro vaccine crowd...

At what point do you think we should move on?

In the 3 years prior to Covid an average of 40k people died from the flu each year.

Our current 7 day rolling average is 607 deaths per week...which extrapolates to 32k deaths per year.

Why did no one care about flu deaths in 2016-2019, but now we need to live in a state of fear? At what point do you say "Everyone who wanted the vaccine got it. Everyone else sleeps in the bed they made. Play ball"?

Note: I'm not anti vaccine, but it's starting to feel like people are addicted to fear porn and will only move on when leftwing media tells them to.

Plus, why isn't the media going gaga over this...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What does playing wait and see have to do with a vaccine's effectiveness? The wait and see approach is mostly about concerns of long term side effects.

Long-term efficacy, long-term side effects, and long-term interaction with the virus and its mutations are all extremely important to me.

If the Pfizer trial data matched up with these current numbers (assuming they are true), I think it's worth noting that it may (depending on how strict they are with their definition of "prevent disease or decrease its severity") not have received FDA emergency use authorization, especially with more effective alternatives being available like Moderna and J&J.

The FDA's cutoff for Covid-19 vaccine effectiveness is 50 percent. What does that mean?

No vaccine is 100 percent effective, but some work better than others.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Rentahamster]

In the 3 years prior to Covid an average of 40k people died from the flu each year.

Our current 7 day rolling average is 607 deaths per week...which extrapolates to 32k deaths per year.

Why did no one care about flu deaths in 2016-2019, but now we need to live in a state of fear?

Infectiousness of COVID is higher than the flu.

Lethality of COVID is higher than the flu.

Long term side effects of COVID are worse than the flu.

People cared about flu deaths in 2016 to 2019, but the flu wasn't putting people in the hospital to the extent where we have to shut down elective surgeries as much as COVID is. Especially bad flu seasons in the past caused a few hospitals to set up tents and cancel elective surgeries, but it's happening a lot more often due to COVID.

You can't just look at the current numbers and think to yourself, "oh it's not that bad". The progression of this disease, unchecked, is exponential, and if you do the math, you can anticipate how bad it could get without countermeasures.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

My question for the pro vaccine crowd...

At what point do you think we should move on?

In the 3 years prior to Covid an average of 40k people died from the flu each year.

Our current 7 day rolling average is 607 deaths per week...which extrapolates to 32k deaths per year.

Why did no one care about flu deaths in 2016-2019, but now we need to live in a state of fear? At what point do you say "Everyone who wanted the vaccine got it. Everyone else sleeps in the bed they made. Play ball"?

Note: I'm not anti vaccine, but it's starting to feel like people are addicted to fear porn and will only move on when leftwing media tells them to.

Plus, why isn't the media going gaga over this...

We're well past it. When Biden announced that in June the vaccine would be widely available for anyone to get that should have been the moment we moved on. But once people in power gained more power they were not ready to let it go so the fear machine keeps churning. This is no longer about health. The same people who are dealthy concerned about covid gave zero shits about flu deaths or any other deaths that occur daily and well above the rates of covid.

Covid fear is worn like a badge of honor and those that don't display it are put down as terrible people simply because they look at the facts and choose to live in reality.

 

[ManaByte]

This is the best show on right now: