Complete vaccination followed by a period of allowing the virus to propagate to fill in the remaining gaps in herd immunity probably could end it (until the next variant). In the UK at least that seems to be the approach.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Germany is at 27 cases per 100k over 7 days and people are already sweating. I just read that Florida is at 653 cases per 100k.
FunkMiller
Banned
Oh god. Poor fucker.
Anti-vax idiocy boils my brain and I have no skin in the game personally like he does. But if my girlfriend was that sick, and unable to be treated with her life at stake like that… then I'd happily yank the anti-vax cunts off the respirator myself and watch them suffocate.
…oh, and some of you: do please spare me the bleating again about 'being kind to your fellow man, no matter what he thinks' bullshit, eh? Your disingenuousness is wholly transparent.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Now do everyone who smokes and/or drinks alcohol and/or is a fat fuck. The hospitals would be basically empty.
FunkMiller
Banned
Our medical infrastructure handles those kinds of things on a regular basis. Day to day dealing with the sick, regardless of the reasons.
Covid is a pandemic disease way beyond business as usual. People have been told repeatedly… over and over again… that getting vaccinated prevents hospitals being overwhelmed (which is exactly what's happened in the U.K. Hospitals not overwhelmed because of high vaccine rates, even with delta).
…And still they refuse to get a vaccine. Hence putting other people's lives at risk like that poor guy's wife.
False equivalence is possibly the dumbest argument you can posit.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
I see. So people with certain lifestyle choices should not be accountable for those choice, while people with other lifestyle choices should die. Makes sense.
FunkMiller
Banned
I'll say it once more (though I'm sure you'll ignore it again just so you can make a fatuous point):
We have been told countless times that getting vaccinated against covid prevents hospitals being overwhelmed.
Anti-vaxxers are ignoring this, and are directly putting other's lives at risk because of it.
In all the other examples you cite, none of this is the case. Fat people, smokers and drinkers do not cause the medical system to be overwhelmed to the point that that guy's wife can't get life saving treatment.
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Moomalade74
Banned
On May 9th, India's Delta wave peaked at approx 283 cases per million.
At that point the percentage of the population fully vaccinated was 2.50%.
By July 10th, India's Delta wave had largely run its course, confirmed cases were down to 30 cases per million.
At that point the percentage of the population fully vaccinated was 5.28%.
Whatever helped India to weather the Delta storm and come out the other side, it wasn't vaccines.
At that point the percentage of the population fully vaccinated was 2.50%.
By July 10th, India's Delta wave had largely run its course, confirmed cases were down to 30 cases per million.
At that point the percentage of the population fully vaccinated was 5.28%.
Whatever helped India to weather the Delta storm and come out the other side, it wasn't vaccines.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Oh, about 5 million dead people, give or take.
This is the consequence of natural immunity. Vaccines let you bypass that step and skip the inevitable deaths.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's standard recommendation to start oxygen therapy at less than 90.
thefool
Member
The answer is always the same, it was the virus. He's in charge, not us (sadly) and he moves at his own pace.
Andrew Pollard eloquently explains the situation we have moving forward.
It's not based on boosters, on vaccinating children, on staying at home the rest of your life, on social distance, on masks, on covid passes, but start vaccinating globally those at risk. Something the west has failed miserably and keeps utterly uninterested in pursuing.
I can imagine twitter fact checkers seething for not being able to block this video.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Do you really think he would have recommended that course of action to India back then?
edit: Actually let's go back a step and let me ask you what you think he's saying, why he's saying it, and what action he's recommending logistically?
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Moomalade74
Banned
India has a population of approx 1.366 billion people.
At the height of India's Delta wave they were getting approx 3 deaths per million a day.
The Indian data refutes the idea that getting the population to 100% vaccination is the only way to reduce infections.
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thefool
Member
Do you really think he would have recommended that course of action to India back then?
This is india deaths per capita ranking:
Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,949,997 Cases and 2,852,987 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...
www.worldometers.info
So you are either a negationist of their official data or I'm misunderstanding why you brought up one of the least affected countries in this pandemic.
There is only one strategy, to vaccinate globally. Failing to do so is an humanitarian crisis.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yes, and I'm telling you the cost of that was about 5 million deaths.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
India's numbers are underreported. Death count didn't match up to cremation count, and the sheer scope of deaths made official counting hard.This is india deaths per capita ranking:
Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,949,997 Cases and 2,852,987 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...
So you are either a negationist of their official data or I'm misunderstanding why you brought up one of the least affected countries in this pandemic.
There is only one strategy, to vaccinate globally. Failing to do so is an humanitarian crisis.
Let me ask this way:
What you think Pollard is saying, why he's saying it, and what action he's recommending logistically?
Paraphrase what you think his argument is, his thoughts on the importance of vaccines, and his recommended course of action is, according to that clip.
thefool
Member
Oh you're one of those. The famous soccer mom indian health expert, let me guess.
Donate vaccines rather than give boosters
Moomalade74
Banned
I clearly addressed that.
As a percentage of India's enormous population that is clearly not a bad outcome. Certainly far better than both the UK and USA fared with their second wave around Christmas (when there was similar rates of full vaccination in the population).
Moomalade74
Banned
I see, so we only believe numbers when they support our favoured narrative, got it.
Let me ask you this :
In light of the Indian data, do you think a fully vaccinated population is the only way to reduce Delta wave infection?
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/AOQW664SD5KRDLGGXDGV4KR754.jpg)
Non-stop cremations cast doubt on India's counting of COVID dead
Gas and firewood furnaces at a crematorium in the western Indian state of Gujarat have been running so long without a break during the COVID-19 pandemic that metal parts have begun to melt.
www.reuters.com
No you didn't. You're not taking into consideration the magnitude of the pain and suffering that India went through.
As a percentage, it doesn't "look" bad, but that's because India's population is so huge. Just looking at that, clapping your hands, and saying "well it wasn't that bad lol!" is truly burying your head in the sand.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Paraphrase what you think his argument is, his thoughts on the importance of vaccines, and his recommended course of action is, according to that clip.
Please elaborate where his thoughts on vaccines align with yours and where it differs.
Moomalade74
Banned
I see.. you're going for the emotional gambit rather than addressing the actual data itself.
Here's a helpful graph that shows India's Delta wave in context.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
*provides the data itself*
*accuses me of not addressing the data*
That's your prerogative if you don't think India's numbers are underreported.
If we were to take the "official" numbers of 400,000 dead by mid July, do you think that's an acceptable price to pay for "natural" herd immunity in the population?
thefool
Member
Problem with negationists is that you don't even read what you post. You end up so deep in your fabricated reality, you lose grasp of things. I will help you
Rentahamster
Did you read beyond the reuters headline?
I have to ask you if you know what excess mortality even is? You know that in 2020 that both americans and europe also have an considerable excess mortality (50%-60% more than covid deaths)?
There was another negationist months ago on this thread who was sure the india curve would keep going up. He was so sure of it. Almost like he wanted misery to confirm his bias.
Soccer-mom things. I'm waiting for you to pull up a nano-machines conspiracy on india.
Rentahamster
Did you read beyond the reuters headline?
I have to ask you if you know what excess mortality even is? You know that in 2020 that both americans and europe also have an considerable excess mortality (50%-60% more than covid deaths)?
There was another negationist months ago on this thread who was sure the india curve would keep going up. He was so sure of it. Almost like he wanted misery to confirm his bias.
Soccer-mom things. I'm waiting for you to pull up a nano-machines conspiracy on india.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's like you're not even listening.Problem with negationists is that you don't even read what you post. You end up so deep in your fabricated reality, you lose grasp of things. I will help you
Did you read beyond the reuters headline?
I have to ask you if you know what excess mortality even is? You know that in 2020 that both americans and europe also have an considerable excess mortality (50%-60% more than covid deaths)?
There was another negationist months ago on this thread who was sure the india curve would keep going up. He was so sure of it.
The cost of reaching herd immunity through natural infection and recovery rather than vaccines is the amount of suffering that's not just deaths alone. It's deaths as a direct result of the virus itself along with deaths due to the inability of hospitals to properly care for the surge of infections, along with the greatly increased amount of pain and suffering that accompanies this. Even going by the inaccurate official death total alone does not encapsulate the scope of the cost in human suffering. Not to mention the appearance of Delta itself. Letting a virus run through a population makes it all the more likely that new variants will appear (assuming it's the kind of virus that tends to evolve to bypass resistance and increase transmissibility, which COVID is).
Paraphrase what you think Pollard's argument is, his thoughts on the importance of vaccines, and his recommended course of action is, according to that clip.
Please elaborate where his thoughts on vaccines align with yours and where it differs.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The meme-verse is going to have a field day with this one
Moomalade74
Banned
You're struggling with the context and trying to throw out absolute numbers without considering the vast size of India's population.
I showed you a graph that outlines the true picture of just how bad India was hit. Relatively compared with the UK and US, India fared pretty well despite what the media projected and your emotive signalling.
Looking at the data from India, do you agree that vaccines don't reduce infection rates?
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Kazza
Member
It truly is the IQ bell-curve meme come to life:
HawksWinStanley
Member
Can't blame him one bit for being angry. I also can't blame the unvaccinated for quickly backtracking on their stance about the virus and running to the hospital when they realize they can't breathe. Honestly I don't understand why insurance companies are still insuring these people who are admitted for the virus when they're voluntarily unvaxxed. I can't even imagine what it's costing them in hospital bills for treatment that could've been mitigated by a free shot.
I think I'm with this guy though, if you're voluntarily unvaxxed because you were willing to take your chances with a virus that is no big deal then don't look for help from the professional medical community and go seek treatment advice from the Facebook group you got your info from.
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Rock And Roll
Member
Saying you shouldn't advocate murder is disingenuous? You'd happily watch someone suffocate? You should probably get help, this isn't a normal way for people to think.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I decided to ignore his temper tantrum today. He has the fits from time to time where he just goes on about letting people die or wishing they were dead. It's interesting to watch, that's for sure. I mean, I'm at least one of the ones he's referring to when he's talks about "be kind bullshit". So at least he knows he's being terrible human being when he says this stuff. Self righteously raging about killing people is a bad look. Beyond that, what can you do but watch the show?
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Jaysen
Banned
It's mind boggling that you need it explained to you why your analogy is so fucking dumb.
CAB_Life
Member
One of the biggest (social) issues with Covid and its response is that it's been entirely politicized; turned into another us vs. them talking point. To the extent where people who aren't vaxxed are vilified, called plague rats (Nazi propaganda btw), and humiliated by others claiming superiority due their health status (which it turns out may not be as iron-clad as we were led to believe).
I believe in vaccination. I also believe in medical autonomy and in treating others with dignity and respect. These ideas can co-exist and exist exclusive of the other. We need to find a middle ground for these discussions in order to sway people to reason. Our governments need to consolidate and clean up their terrible messaging to restore trust in our institutions. Engaging in further tribalism will lead to the same complications and disastrous results we've seen for the last decade or so, only with far deadlier consequences.
I'm fairly confident—and given what we've seen in the last couple weeks—that the Delta variant will cause significant issues even to vaccinated populations, so this isn't a problem that's just going to vanish from browbeating people into submission or surrendering further power to the State to mandate procedures for our protection.
I also believe that short of a broad-spectrum Covid sterilizing vaccine (read: total immunity, not anything tin foil about reproduction lol), we are going to be living with this disease and its permutations for quite some time, if not forever. The staggered rollout of the original vaccines seems a huge mistake in hindsight; we should have waited—regardless of the short term sufearing incurred--until we could've done 80% or more of our populations in one go.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Imagine not using the word "dumb" or a synonym in every fucking post like some grade school child.
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Jaysen
Banned
Bernd Lauert
Banned
We're reaching levels of cringe that shouldn't even be possible.
Jaysen
Banned
"Please don't point out our hypocrisy!"
Standards and infrastructure vary across region within regions within regions interlinked.I see.. you're going for the emotional gambit rather than addressing the actual data itself.
Here's a helpful graph that shows India's Delta wave in context.
Always casually look to local health numbers first. That's what would be most relevant to a person for the vaccine and the security of the data collected and your own doctor and network of health.
For myself
Vast majority of those taking up hospital space are unvaccinated. That's taxpayer money keeping them alive at the expense of access to health care for others.
Then compare with other regions in your immediate area and country. Then trusted regions with the best medical care, record keeping and oversight for the overall population. So if records are tampered with to make a policy/person look better(attempts are made everywhere) from the bottom to the top it's caught and corrected.
I find that helps the keep a clear picture and context.
For example, it's looking like with Alberta ending testing,tracing and isolating on Monday at the start of a delta wave in their province they remove early warning so they don't have to adjust policy until much later in than jurisdictions. They're looking more and more like they got caught in a gamble of calculus where with some optimistic model they got convinced they could steal pandemic management thunder, declare it over in Alberta(therefore Canada) and pretend they did it all. Sweep a few dead under the rug. Mission accomplished.
They can change course, like Asa Hutchinson in Arkansas, or stick it out and fight science like Tennessee.
BarringGaffner
Member
The healthcare industry already accounted for those people. And there was always still room for elective surgeries, specialists and such because there wouldn't be a sudden wave of 10x as many cancer patients.
That industry doesn't account for pandemics to happen. They don't have entire empty wings just in case. And we can't build new hospitals or create new doctors and nurses overnight. It really is simple that a lot of shit breaks down once hospitals are full.
Suddenly blaming individuals for their bad smoking, eating, drinking habits or other dangerous lifestyles does not solve the issue at hand. Or at least not within the next decade.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
But without fat diabetics and smokers and drinkers, we'd have a lot more room for all these covid patients, right? So it fundamentally doesn't make a difference why they are in the hospital. Either we are going to treat everyone or no one. You don't get to draw a distinction about which avoidable health consequences you punish and which you do not.
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Gingerale can't cure covid, Derrick!
I'm using that one with natural immunity types.
Love the local flavour.
Reminds me of Alberta's grassroots provaccine
Kilau
Gold Member
3 out of 4 look like stock photos for ED ads.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
They're full. They're drawing that distinction right now. They're cancelling elective procedures.
FunkMiller
Banned
I was reacting to the very understandable anger that the poor guy felt that his wife wasn't getting the life saving treatment she needs directly due to anti-vaxxers.
If only you gave a shit as much about his life and hers - and many people like it - as you do your anti-vax friends (I assume they're your friends given how much you defend them).
DeepBreath87
Banned
We are talking about the hypothetical that people who don't take the vaccine shouldn't go to the hospital.