Colonel Mustard
Banned
We have nothing but heresay.
I could see Microsoft maybe going this route. Sony will not commit financial suicide with another PS3-level debacle. Unless they find a way to heavily subsidize the cost of production.
CPU Wii U just as powerful as PS3, X360, GPU 1,5 times stronger
- Thread starter M°°nblade
- Start date
I could see Microsoft maybe going this route. Sony will not commit financial suicide with another PS3-level debacle. Unless they find a way to heavily subsidize the cost of production.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I've read the thread. Can you approximate real world performance (ie, a benchmark) from these specs alone? You don't even know what kind of RAM it's using.
There are many console games that either never arrive on PC or where the PC version is actually worse.
Eteric Rice
Member
The thing is, I don't think most PC gamers even care about graphics that much anymore. Most people I know that play a lot of PC games play stuff like World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, Diablo III, etc.
These games aren't really graphically impressive.
That's not to say that these people don't play impressive stuff like Skyrim, Crysis, etc. But going from game to game, they don't seem to care.
Honestly PC gamers seem okay with a wide variety of graphical fidelity.
mugurumakensei
Member
That has nothing to do with what you originally asked which is "how do you know it's 2009 tech?". That doesn't need clock rates.
I guess that is only if you are transmitting the entire game direct to the controller right? I am sure that must be different if the controller screen is used for GUI stuff/Inventory stuff etc.
Yeah, along with the CPU.
Can't believe how much crap I got in the speculation threads...
mugurumakensei
Member
BTW, that spec sheet is all third parties have from Nintendo apparently. The estimation of performance is based on how well they've gotten their games to run on the engine. To get the clock speeds, we'll have to wait til it launches, or someone from Nintendo, AMD, or IBM leaks info.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Like i posted earlier, no clock speeds tells me they've had to underclock the CPU & GPU far short of what they can run at, in order to keep within thermal limits of that tiny WiiU case.
Yes you can consdiering if you use a wiki for R700 based cards you can clearly see it's derivative of that. Good luck with benchmarks trying to say a r700 with it specs is going to be beat by a lesser modified x1900 that lacks features that we know are confirmed. Also why do I need to compared benchmarks when I owned those cards and variants of their classes and saw real world performance in a pc environment. The difference were clear then especially when it came to res, fps, and complexity of effects I could run.
The idea that your suggesting nintendo is going to gimp their ram on the speed end when history shows us otherwise is silly. They gimped ram in amount not in quality this has been a fact from N64 to even the WiiU.
bgassassin
Member
The info in the OP is flawed. Ignoring the fact that it says the CPU is on par with Cell and only 1.5x RSX, the biggest issue leading up to E3 over the last 6 months has pointed to inefficient usage of the CPU. If the CPU is bogged down then it doesn't matter how powerful the GPU is. The CPU "can't feed" the GPU. And due to that I wouldn't be shocked if this person is judging the power of the GPU based on inefficient usage of the CPU.
For better or worse Nintendo likes "balanced" hardware. In this case it seems to be for the worse because the CPU was more than likely designed to need the I/O and DSP to handle the tasks they are designed for. So if a game is not really using them then the CPU will perform worse due to handling more than it was designed for and can lead to a like AC: AE looking worse than the PS360 versions.
Also it's very likely most of the games shown this week are not running on final dev kits. As mentioned awhile back by Ideaman (and someone else I've talked to) the final dev kits went through a lot of tweaking to improve the efficiency between the hardware and middleware. They also received a small power boost. Don't take that as meaning the final dev kits are going to turn these launch games in to graphical masterpieces though. It should also be noted that these early games are making heavy usage of the controller which will pull resources from the hardware as well.
Some should always remember that judging power based on launch titles is asinine especially when some of you saw . The games down the line will make better usage of CPU, I/O, and DSP. At the same time GPU is supposed to have "Nintendo-patented" features added. I already know those won't be utilized in the launch games and more than likely not in future multi-platform games. But you will see them in certain future first-party games and possible 3rd-party exclusives. It's way too soon for some of the reactions, but that's to be expected.
For better or worse Nintendo likes "balanced" hardware. In this case it seems to be for the worse because the CPU was more than likely designed to need the I/O and DSP to handle the tasks they are designed for. So if a game is not really using them then the CPU will perform worse due to handling more than it was designed for and can lead to a like AC: AE looking worse than the PS360 versions.
Also it's very likely most of the games shown this week are not running on final dev kits. As mentioned awhile back by Ideaman (and someone else I've talked to) the final dev kits went through a lot of tweaking to improve the efficiency between the hardware and middleware. They also received a small power boost. Don't take that as meaning the final dev kits are going to turn these launch games in to graphical masterpieces though. It should also be noted that these early games are making heavy usage of the controller which will pull resources from the hardware as well.
Some should always remember that judging power based on launch titles is asinine especially when some of you saw . The games down the line will make better usage of CPU, I/O, and DSP. At the same time GPU is supposed to have "Nintendo-patented" features added. I already know those won't be utilized in the launch games and more than likely not in future multi-platform games. But you will see them in certain future first-party games and possible 3rd-party exclusives. It's way too soon for some of the reactions, but that's to be expected.
Coolbgdog12
Member
I don't see the fucking big deal. If the Wii u can display PS3 level graphics and the games are Nintendo that's fukking great.
If star wars 1313 and the Final fantasy luminous engine are what next gen can do then fine I'll experience that on other consoles. Wii U might not even be expensive and it will be as good as current generation games yet have a totally different style of playing. Big fucking deal.
If star wars 1313 and the Final fantasy luminous engine are what next gen can do then fine I'll experience that on other consoles. Wii U might not even be expensive and it will be as good as current generation games yet have a totally different style of playing. Big fucking deal.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Because "2009 tech" is such a wishy-washy term. If I built a console with a mobile CPU and GPU from 2009 that would be vastly different from a top of the line 2009 rig, would it not? What's the point of having newer tech if it performs like 2005 hardware?
I'm currently running a 1GB 4870, I know what the cards are capable of. Factually, no one can say if the card in the Wii U is as good, better, or worse in real world performance.
Glorified G
Member
Hard to say. If it's just inventory/GUI the framerate problem probably wouldn't come into play. It's probably safe to assume that the streaming in general takes some base power, then depending on what your streaming it could take more.
We still don't know how Nintendo is handling it though. Are they going to designate processing power to be used for the pads? Or is it up to the developer to take what they need?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
You absolutely should be excited about WiiU. After all, it the most poweful games machine ever produced by Nintendo.
My issue is this. It will take a fair while for the devs to get to grips with the ins and outs of the machine to the point were games look better on it then the current HD twins. Maybe a year or more.
By then, a lot of devs will have their eye on true next gen machines. These are going to be uber machines compared to PS360WiiU and if a dev is forced to do a port to those machines, they are going to do the minimal amount of work to get them to run.
So basically, Nintendo launched a games machine on par with the current generation just as they are nearing the end of there life and it's simply not powerful enough to run true next gen engines. There is no way this machine will not have a long lifespan. It's almost irrelevant now.
fierrotlepou
Member
Who cares? The Wii U should be compared with the PS4 and the new XBOX, not with current gen hardware...
Fucking ridiculous.
Fucking ridiculous.
plagiarize
Banned
did we know clock speeds for the 3DS before launch? i just think Nintendo have stopped giving that information out, not to say that it's unlikely that the cpu could be clocked higher in a better environment.
if the CPU is PS3 level... that's an estimate already based on whatever clock speed it's running at in the Wii U case. it does what it does, whatever numbers they've got it clocked at.
I think that might be the more frustrating thing is that Nintendo had a second E3 to show of features and we still don't know stuff about the console.
How much power they use might depends on how the developers use the pad/console. I wonder if they have particular API's so they can customise the pad usage etc or if its stuck to how Nintendo say it.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
You're right, ridiculous to compare a 2005 level CPU and a 2008 level GPU that's inside the Wii U, to 2012 level hardware that will be inside the PS4 and 720.
Sales of high end titles prove that post otherwise. PC gaming is so diverse saying one aspect represents all shows you really don't see the whole.
It's far easier to say that regardless of console or pc gaming far more gamers aren't as picky graphics as some are here.
why do you ppl still refer to a list that is from last year june/july??
Even BGasassin said he only posted it to confirm that his knowing about the HW from one year ago was like that.
So we have to consider all the bumps/optimizations that were done from that time till now.
The HD 4xxx line was only a placeholder for that time and latest roumors we discussed in speculation thread VI was a HD 6xxx as basis...
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
The info in the OP is flawed. Ignoring the fact that it says the CPU is on par with Cell and only 1.5x RSX, the biggest issue leading up to E3 over the last 6 months has pointed to inefficient usage of the CPU. If the CPU is bogged down then it doesn't matter how powerful the GPU is. The CPU "can't feed" the GPU. And due to that I wouldn't be shocked if this person is judging the power of the GPU based on inefficient usage of the CPU.
For better or worse Nintendo likes "balanced" hardware. In this case it seems to be for the worse because the CPU was more than likely designed to need the I/O and DSP to handle the tasks they are designed for. So if a game is not really using them then the CPU will perform worse due to handling more than it was designed for and can lead to a like AC: AE looking worse than the PS360 versions.
Also it's very likely most of the games shown this week are not running on final dev kits. As mentioned awhile back by Ideaman (and someone else I've talked to) the final dev kits went through a lot of tweaking to improve the efficiency between the hardware and middleware. They also received a small power boost. Don't take that as meaning the final dev kits are going to turn these launch games in to graphical masterpieces though. It should also be noted that these early games are making heavy usage of the controller which will pull resources from the hardware as well.
Some should always remember that judging power based on launch titles is asinine especially when some of you saw . The games down the line will make better usage of CPU, I/O, and DSP. At the same time GPU is supposed to have "Nintendo-patented" features added. I already know those won't be utilized in the launch games and more than likely not in future multi-platform games. But you will see them in certain future first-party games and possible 3rd-party exclusives. It's way too soon for some of the reactions, but that's to be expected.
With what Nintendo showed, if Ubisoft said "Wii U is weaker than Xbox 360/PS3", I would believe them. Nothing has been shown that hints at its power. Oh well, time to be patient and wait for Retro.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
This is 2012, people expect something better than tech comparable to 2005....
Did the Wii not happen???
plagiarize
Banned
how do you rationalise away the success of the Wii? i mean, it launched AFTER the so called true next gen consoles had started arriving. it's architecture was the same weird gamecube architecture that few devs had gotten to grips with. it might have been a failure in the eyes of the core gamers in failing to offer the same number and quality of experiences such gamers favoured on the 360 and PS3, but it was no failure. it was well supported by third party publishers. it had many best sellers.
it didn't get all the AAA games, and the Wii U likely won't either. the Wii U will probably fail to replicate the success of the Wii, but that's a very high ceiling with a large range beneath it which would still represent one successful fucking console.
everything you are saying is true, but it's also MORE true of the original Wii. that's why I don't think that anything is a given at this point when predicting the lifespan or success of the Wii U.
What if retro is making a side scrolling Kirby game?
It should be compared when they are competing with the same audience. The next-gen competitors with built-in Kinect, Move, and tablet controllers are certainly going to be competing with the Wii U.
6670 gpu is nothing to brag about it's bargain bin AMD gpu left over from the 4XXX and 5XXX era of the gpus.
PS3 gpu will be something if they make it work.
CPU wise no rumor is even suggestion anything fancy or radically new. They definetly aren't using the extreme stuff the oc types in pc land are.
The only thing new about the gpus is feature set architecture wise they are old plain and simple.
bgassassin
Member
fixed
And I just pointed out why you aren't seeing any hints of the power right now in the post you responded to.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I can't. I've really no idea how it became so successful. It's a freak. Everyone I know bought one and ended up just playing the tennis or bowling game. Almost a 1 hit wonder.
Do you think Ninty can do it again with WiiU. I have my doubts.
fixed
And I just pointed out why you aren't seeing any hints of the power right now in the post you responded to.
Ya ya, I have to wait one way or another.
PuppetSlave
Member
Comparing it to things that do not exist yet? Yeah that does sound a bit odd.
The only way I could envisage it at least repeating the initial success of the Wii is if they could sell it at the same price as the Wii originally launched. It was hard for friends and family to say no to a brand new home console experience at £179
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
No. We have a narrowing window relative to performance targets.
Because it's an early concrete source that various people with kit access have vouched for. If you want me to look at another list then give me the source and then I can comment.
Regardless if it's 4XXX or 6xxx feature set and ram alone have me hoping devs don't drop the ball with this platform. I'm not against considering what has been done to the gpu I'm just saying at a basic level there is plenty to know where this system is and isn't compared to the HD twins.
plagiarize
Banned
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It really would have to be that cheap for any hope for success. Knowing Nintendo. I really doubt it. More like £250.
The fact that Nintendo haven't announced pricing says to me that the ticket price is in hot dispute in Nintendoland.
Seems like the Wii U is powerful enough to run ending cycle of this gen's stuff without much of problem, so there is probably a decent amount of headroom there once things get customized and optimized. But if "true" next gen is even a half leap forward, Wii U will be a second class citizen once again.
nth time you posted this exact same sentence in 2 days => ignore list.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
If you can say that coming from a very dominate first place, losing a huge market share and coming last in a single generation is a success then I agree with you.
bgassassin
Member
Time out. Let's get some context. The bold has never been said from what I remember. And I only posted the link of of those early target specs for people to discuss. I couldn't care less about it confirming things I said.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Want to know why Mario Galaxy/Mario Whatever 3D wasn't shown?
I love how this graph makes it look like most Mario games don't sell that well, when it's actually showing how NSMB are some of the best selling games that have ever been made on any platform
EDIT:
Well it wins by virtue of currently existing then.
plagiarize
Banned
i think they probably wanted to see the response to the system at E3 before setting the price. i was really surprised that they didn't announce a price, a release date, and the contents of the launch package.
people looking to see a cheaper sticker price ought to be happy that it isn't getting the same rapturous response the 3DS got, which led to the 3DS being overpriced at launch.
after one underpriced launch and one overpriced one, hopefully they'll get it about right this time.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Had they not abandoned the system almost completely, it wouldn't have taken a nosedive.