It depends on what you're doing. I don't think an inventory screen would take up many GPU cycles.
CPU Wii U just as powerful as PS3, X360, GPU 1,5 times stronger
- Thread starter M°°nblade
- Start date
I think the best example for your point is Wind waker, which looks timeless.
Do PGR3 and Kameo look like PS2/Xbox games?
Are we not beyond hardware limitations now? Nintendo should be able to pump out something stunning on Day 1 with no questions asked.
N64 and then Banjo was a year later right? If people have to wait a whole year for significant improvements, that will be a bit depressing.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I almost wish Nintendo had stayed SD.
Can't stand all this pixel counting and ground texture comparison.
Can't stand all this pixel counting and ground texture comparison.
regarding Star Wars I do expect more form next-gen gaming, but if this is what 1st wave games will be like, I 'll be plenty happy.
UE4 showed stuff that requires rethinking of how a game plays, not expecting this in the first2 years of next-gen.
If WiiU supports things similar to Star Wars 1313, Nintendo did their job and we should be mad at devs for not bringing it to WiiU.
UE4 showed stuff that requires rethinking of how a game plays, not expecting this in the first2 years of next-gen.
If WiiU supports things similar to Star Wars 1313, Nintendo did their job and we should be mad at devs for not bringing it to WiiU.
6 months out from launch, are they going to have a major redesign or tech shift that will allow them to retain the same spec and case size but not have it restricted?
Dev kits are not usually underclocked and they tend to have extra RAM to dev with, so what we saw at E3...near retail or Dev kits?
Opus Angelorum
Member
Just wait for the Xbox 720 versus PS4 battles.
yeah. 720p seems excessive imo.
PC wins.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I can ignore those. Don't want either one (for now)
But if the Wii U does receive ports all of its threads will be littered with comparison texture bullshit.
walking fiend
Member
$800
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Funny,seeing as the PS4 and 720 will both basically be a 2012 level high end PC.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Not quite. As others have mentioned console versions will be much better optimised due to the closed system design (certainly for the first year or so).
Glass Rebel
Member
Released in 2013.
Well, time to eat crow for some people, I called it before E3 that Nintendo is just trying to pull off another Wii.
Everything is the SAME. Concept (innovate through input method), games (Red Steel = ZombiU, NIntendoloand = WiiSports, Mario Bros. etc.), marketing style (show families etc.), content of the press conference etc.. The only difference is that back then they were in a situation of chane and still tried to cater to the hardcore gamers a bit more. This time, they won't even try, I'm pretty sure. Even if they say they do care, they always said that, the reality is different though.
It's just another Wii, that's it. There is no way "old nintendo" is coming back and if you buy a Wii in two years from now on it'll just be there where the current Wii is. And that's in the closet.
Btw, I have no idea if this thing will sale. Imo the concept this time is much weaker to cater to the casual audience. That huge ass controller display thing will not fascinate the soccer moms like it happened with the small wii remote, which was already known in terms of form factor at least. And the novelty of "WOAH LOOK ITS LIKE PLAYING REAL TENNIS" (which it wasn't) is not achieved by a touchscreen which is quite common and nothing new. I'm very unsure about this whole console. At the moment I only know that I just don't like it (yet).
Everything is the SAME. Concept (innovate through input method), games (Red Steel = ZombiU, NIntendoloand = WiiSports, Mario Bros. etc.), marketing style (show families etc.), content of the press conference etc.. The only difference is that back then they were in a situation of chane and still tried to cater to the hardcore gamers a bit more. This time, they won't even try, I'm pretty sure. Even if they say they do care, they always said that, the reality is different though.
It's just another Wii, that's it. There is no way "old nintendo" is coming back and if you buy a Wii in two years from now on it'll just be there where the current Wii is. And that's in the closet.
Btw, I have no idea if this thing will sale. Imo the concept this time is much weaker to cater to the casual audience. That huge ass controller display thing will not fascinate the soccer moms like it happened with the small wii remote, which was already known in terms of form factor at least. And the novelty of "WOAH LOOK ITS LIKE PLAYING REAL TENNIS" (which it wasn't) is not achieved by a touchscreen which is quite common and nothing new. I'm very unsure about this whole console. At the moment I only know that I just don't like it (yet).
Games takes time to make, shocking, I know.
Who says they can't? The question is, do they want to show it this early if it's years away? They ain't no Square Enix or Sony. Nintendo's stunning games are SMG and Zelda. Those have just been released not too long ago and also takes time to make. And Retro still haven't showed what they are working on. SSB is also a games that's a looker and has already been confirmed it's coming.
Banjo was 1 year later? I don't know, you came up with the comparison.
Fake edit: it's 2 years.
systemfehler
Member
Super Mario Sunshine or Zelda Twilight Princess?
You can't really compare games like that. In my eyes Super Mario 64 is the better game but not because of the look. It was a favourite when I was younger, it had gread gameplay, Mario game, etc.
Nostalgia is different for everyone. I bet there are a many people who prefer Quake because they spent countless hours in multiplayer sessions with friends. Those great memories not the technology behind it is important.
mugurumakensei
Member
Eh, no. They will be a 2012 mid-end PC.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I'm not surprised, i actually thought it would be weaker than the 360/ps3 because of the 2nd screen. I never thought they would actually do it though after Wii tanked towards the end. I would have given my left nut for 2012 tech, new wiimote, good online and awesome 1st party games.
Basically another gimped console from nintendo arghhh. Funny thing is they are in a much better position finacially than sony, yet sony is going to go all out...wtf
Basically another gimped console from nintendo arghhh. Funny thing is they are in a much better position finacially than sony, yet sony is going to go all out...wtf
Considering what epic already said about what kind of pcs UE4 devkits run on I would agree. Rather just to be a little jerk next gen is already being based on old hardware.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Do you like the Wii U?
1997 for us poor US/Euro peeps and then 1998 for Banjo, so slightly over 1 year. Now I can understand since they jumped to new tech, so plenty to learn but the whole industry has shifted. They have so much more competition now than they use to and they also have way more examples of what is possible.
They showed off Zelda-U and if that is not what they hit, I will be very disappointed. It took Sony a while to get passed the Killzone stuff and they got utterly ripped for it but still came through. I am hoping Nintendo do the same but if Zelda-U is 2 years out, then its going to be hard.
I seriously want to see what Retro is doing.
I won't be buying a Wii-U at launch, just because no games interest me but I will be certainly keeping an eye on it for when they announce Zelda and F-Zero-U
Ein Bear
Member
Is this your first console generation or something? Games always get better and better looking as time passes, as the developers learn how to get the most out the hardware. Just look at the transition from Uncharted 1 through 3, or Halo 3 to Halo 4, or just about any game and it's sequels ever released.
Wii U games in it's second year will look better than the ones it launched with. And the same will be true of the PS4 and Xbox 3.
On top of these points, why would the preferences of Japanese consumers when it comes to consoles matter the most to Nintendo, anyway? Japan is handheld land, and that trend seems to be accelerating. For the Wii, Wikipidia says only 1 out of 9 Wii's was sold in Japan. And yet you're still chasing the consumer least likely to buy your product, while ignoring the demands of the consumers most likely to buy your product?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Except you've got knowledgeable in this very thread telling you that won't be the case.
at half the price, a better casing and some exclusive AAA games...
let's be done with it. that MS/Sony are going as far as a 2012 PC for console performance is great.
Because the Wii U is a prototype for what they seem to be aiming for in 5-7 years time. Though that is entirely dependent on whether the technology will be available or not.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
1. You weren't the only one "calling" this.
2. I'm curious as to why people really expected them to move away from the formula that won them the sales battle this generation.
Felix Lighter
Member
That didn't really seem to apply to the Wii. There wasn't much of a evolution throughout the generation and I would imagine that had a lot to do with the fact that techniques established throughout the Gamecube's life applied to the Wii day one and there wasn't a whole lot more they could do.
No my first not by a long shot. Damn I feel old now.
How long has Nintendo had Dev kits of their new product. 1 year, 2 years? Are you telling me they could not rinse some more power out of it to make something more impressive than an up-scaled New Super Mario Bros demo?
I am not saying Wii-U games won't improve because that is stupid to say they won't, I just think people expected a bit more from a console shipping in 6+ months. You show off the tech, you hint at the future possibilities. You don't give consumers the reason to doubt that you don't take is seriously.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
You know, a remark about Pikmin 3 that people just don't seem to be taking into account with picking apart the screens:
It's not a first person shooter with a few enemies on screen and crude AI.
It's an RTS, that runs a 60fps, at 720p. With hundreds of path finding pikmin on screen plus environmental physics for destruction, enemy AI, and other effects.
Folks never seem to take into account what a game is, when comparing still shots of one piece of ground between two games.
Would there be any game like Pikmin 3 running on the 360 at 60fps, not sub-HD? Every RTS I've seen on the PS360 barely runs 30fps and has visuals nowhere near as nice as one of the leading AAA games that has far less to manage in the game world.
As for Wii U and hardware power - 2 years to speculate that Nintendo would put out a system that would likely be an 'optimized' version of what the PS360 are, and there is shock, anger, disappointment?
No offense but... does nobody get that New Super Mario Bros. U is the kind of game it is on purpose? The reaction it's getting, along the lines of "OMG Nintendo has no skillz, no hardware, no competency, why u make a game like dat?" is silly. It is like pointing at The Last Guy on PS3, and saying "OMG, PS3 has no power, Sony has no capability and doesn't know what good graphics is like!"
It is a terrible truth I know, but NSMB U was shown because it's a major title. That what makes it a major title isn't predicated on trying to look like the UE4 demo is a problem of perception that gamers have, not Nintendo's problem.
It's not a first person shooter with a few enemies on screen and crude AI.
It's an RTS, that runs a 60fps, at 720p. With hundreds of path finding pikmin on screen plus environmental physics for destruction, enemy AI, and other effects.
Folks never seem to take into account what a game is, when comparing still shots of one piece of ground between two games.
Would there be any game like Pikmin 3 running on the 360 at 60fps, not sub-HD? Every RTS I've seen on the PS360 barely runs 30fps and has visuals nowhere near as nice as one of the leading AAA games that has far less to manage in the game world.
As for Wii U and hardware power - 2 years to speculate that Nintendo would put out a system that would likely be an 'optimized' version of what the PS360 are, and there is shock, anger, disappointment?
No offense but... does nobody get that New Super Mario Bros. U is the kind of game it is on purpose? The reaction it's getting, along the lines of "OMG Nintendo has no skillz, no hardware, no competency, why u make a game like dat?" is silly. It is like pointing at The Last Guy on PS3, and saying "OMG, PS3 has no power, Sony has no capability and doesn't know what good graphics is like!"
It is a terrible truth I know, but NSMB U was shown because it's a major title. That what makes it a major title isn't predicated on trying to look like the UE4 demo is a problem of perception that gamers have, not Nintendo's problem.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Let me get that straight: you mean to say that both Orbis/Durango will feature 8x the memory, 4x the ROP-rate (best-case difference for the weaker unit), 8x the tex rate, 10x the GPU flops*, x5-10 times the CPU flops, x10-20 the local GPU BW and x10 the CPU BW of wiiU?
* GPU flops for the wii is an 'equivalence' term here, taken as 8GFLOPS for the vertex part and 1G pixels/s x12 programmable ops/pixel/clock (though clearly not FLOPS) for the pixel pipeline.
Did you read my post?
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
Pikmin looks awesome. This is the console we should have had _6_ years ago. It's so frustrating. I'll buy the Wii U, I'll enjoy Pikmin and other titles (probably mostly Nintendo titles as I get most multiplatform games on the PC this late in the generation), but then a year later Xbox 3 and PS4 will launch and I will again think to myself "Why don't I have a Nintendo console capable of this?" "Why am I not playing a Zelda game that will be as awesome as what Nintendo could do with a true next-gen system?"
Nintendo fans, when you see Mario and Pikmin Wii U, doesn't it at all bother you that these are the sort of games that you should have been playing 6 years ago? Doesn't it bother you the least that Zelda Wind Waker should have looked like the tech demo we saw last year?
And please, please, don't give me the argument that it's all about game-play and not about graphics. Pikmin Wii U simply wouldn't have been possible on the Wii (and not just because of the screen). CPU and GPU power directly affects what game designers can create! Even if the Wii U had a 570GTX equivalency the games possible would be amazing.
I know the screen controller is a bit expensive (though the quality of the screen isn't that high either), but I also expect the Wii U to be one of the more expensive Nintendo consoles released.
Nintendo fans, when you see Mario and Pikmin Wii U, doesn't it at all bother you that these are the sort of games that you should have been playing 6 years ago? Doesn't it bother you the least that Zelda Wind Waker should have looked like the tech demo we saw last year?
And please, please, don't give me the argument that it's all about game-play and not about graphics. Pikmin Wii U simply wouldn't have been possible on the Wii (and not just because of the screen). CPU and GPU power directly affects what game designers can create! Even if the Wii U had a 570GTX equivalency the games possible would be amazing.
I know the screen controller is a bit expensive (though the quality of the screen isn't that high either), but I also expect the Wii U to be one of the more expensive Nintendo consoles released.
plagiarize
Banned
the final versions, no. absolutely not. but don't forget that Kameo's graphics improved a lot between E3 and launch.
The only thing that bothers me when I go back and play Wind Waker is the IQ. 480p, 4:3, dithered transparency effects. I run that game in widescreen in Dolphin and apart from the fact that objects disappear at the edges of the screen (because it thinks they're off screen) and I think the game still looks awesome. Is it awesome looking technically? Not at all, but it's still awesome looking.
Rayman Origins isn't remotely pushing the PS3 or the 360, even running at 60 fps in 1080p. it still looks awesome. you know how i know it isn't pushing the hardware? because it runs in 480p at 60 fps on the Wii and at a higher res at 60 fps on the vita.
yes. more power opens up more options... but the main thing i hate about most Wii games isn't their lack of shaders but their terrible IQ, and the Wii U will bring IQ to at least 360 levels which I can tolerate, and likely will bring it past even that.
certain games, as ever, I want to see all the latest greatest effects going on. I love Crysis 2 on my PC with all the bells and whistles and they do add to the game. horror games? i will always want the best graphics and lighting. But Wind Waker? Skywards Sword? Nah. Fix the IQ and those games look amazing, whether they're technically impressive or not. Twilight Princess however now looks much worse than Wind Waker.
LOL OLD TECH
Nintendo has a business strategy which is highly succesful for them, and people on NeoGAF bitch and whine because that strategy might not cater to their every need.
Its pathetic. People are absolutely outrageous. If they're so sure the Xbox 720 and PS4 are going to be the ultimate gaming machines that are going to blow Nintendo away, I don't know why they even care.
No way they will be anything close to a 2012 high end PC. The high-end GPUs alone cost $1000+, even discounting the retailer markup and allowing a little cost reduction until the PS4720 launch you'd be looking at $400 manufacturing cost for a single component... Not gonna happen.
Ein Bear
Member
No my first not by a long shot. Damn I feel old now.
How long has Nintendo had Dev kits of their new product. 1 year, 2 years? Are you telling me they could not rinse some more power out of it to make something more impressive than an up-scaled New Super Mario Bros demo?
I am not saying Wii-U games won't improve because that is stupid to say they won't, I just think people expected a bit more from a console shipping in 6+ months. You show off the tech, you hint at the future possibilities. You don't give consumers the reason to doubt that you don't take is seriously.
I'd say Nintendo are taking it seriously. It might not reflect the tastes of GAF, but New Super Mario Bros. is pretty much the biggest gun Nintendo have. The amount of copies the previous games sold is staggering, I can completely understand why getting NSMBU ready for launch was their priority. It might not be our first choice, but it'll push hardware waaaay more that Metroid Prime 4 or whatever would.
I'm sure internally, they've got some really pretty stuff going on (Last years Zelda tech demo was amazing), but they wanted a NSMB game for launch, and it looks about as good as a 2D platformer with that artstyle can.
mugurumakensei
Member
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
It bothers me more that the only Wind Waker style Zeldas we get are on handhelds and not on the big screen.
The Hermit
Member
Lets hope this thing is cheap if true...
Nah who am I kidding
Nah who am I kidding
There are quite a few people who explained why Wii games were shit. One developer from factor 5 put this topic in check back in 2007. Not only that same developer mentioned how aspects of Lair's engine on Ps3 could be used on Wii, yet we never saw that or anything close to it. Power has nothing to do with the problem that faces nintendo consumers when their titles are developed by 3rd parties or at times nintendo themselves.
Still I don't know what people were smoking SMG 1&2 and Metroid prim 3 alone weren't going to be something a GC could do.