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Crush 40 singer (Johnny Gioeli) is suing Sega over ownership for "Live & Learn".

Kadve

Member

Sega of America is being taken to court by Johnny Gioeli, a musician for the rock band Crush 40. The band is best known for creating Sonic Adventure 2's theme, "Live & Learn," and he alleges Sega is in breach of contract over the iconic song. In addition to seeking financial compensation from Sega, he wants the court to "conclusively establish" who owns it.

In the December-filed suit, Gioeli claims to have the "master recording and composition of the song," which he reportedly created and produced in his own home without any involvement from Sega. He further accuses the publisher of "exploiting and licensing" the song to over two dozen games, shows, and live performances without his knowledge.

Gioeli states he was first made aware of the song's presence in other media earlier this year. Game-wise, "Live & Learn" has been featured in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U versions of Super Smash Bros. 4, and Yakuza 4 and 5. Its inclusion in non-Sonic Adventure 2 titles is as recent as 2021's Monster Hunter Rise from Capcom.

More at link. Lets hope it doesn't turn into another Ken Penders situation for Sega (though i doubt it since that was mostly Archies incompetence).
 

Robb

Gold Member
the suit […] further cited a prior statement from a Sega attorney which noted the song's rights are Gioeli's "and not Sega's, and we have no rights to these materials."
That SEGA attorney right now:
the-simpsons.gif
 

Griffon

Member
How the fuck did they overlook that for so long? That's a pretty major fuck up from Sega.

Thus would be a huge shame that this puts an end to crush40 collaboration with Sega, I can't imagine Sonic without their music.
 
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Holammer

Member
How the fuck did they overlook that for so long? That's a pretty major fuck up from Sega.

Thus would be a huge shame that this puts an end to crush40 collaboration with Sega, I can't imagine Sonic without their music.
They left Archie Comics Sonic unsupervised for over a decade.
I'm sorry, but the potential scenario where Sega has to Genesis Wave the song out of the games fills me with merry mirth.

skeletor-laughs-in-evil-laughing-myah-myaah-dasmemeistgut.gif
 
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Jinzo Prime

Member



More at link. Lets hope it doesn't turn into another Ken Penders situation for Sega (though i doubt it since that was mostly Archies incompetence).
This is a very bizarre situation, didn't Jun Senoue write Live and Learn? Or is Johnny saying he wrote the lyrics and therefore owns the song?
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Better question. Why has Gioeli only brought it up now? Over 20 years since the release of Adventure 2...
The song is basically THE song of Sonic Adventure 2 ending, and since the new movie is based on that, chances are that a version of the song will be at it

The scene is iconic, and if they change the music, won't be the best synergy of nostalgia and new direction. It's a shame. Everyone looses
 

Wildebeest

Member
This is a very bizarre situation, didn't Jun Senoue write Live and Learn? Or is Johnny saying he wrote the lyrics and therefore owns the song?
That's not how songwriting credits work. Maybe some people in bands get screwed and don't get credits when they effectively wrote their part of the music, but if the man got credits for this work on the track it doesn't matter if he didn't write the lyrics or sing.
 

Kadve

Member
That's not how songwriting credits work. Maybe some people in bands get screwed and don't get credits when they effectively wrote their part of the music, but if the man got credits for this work on the track it doesn't matter if he didn't write the lyrics or sing.
Shoutout to Gene Rodenberry actually writing lyrics to the original Star Trek theme just so he could claim Co-writing credit (and thereby half of the royalties every time it was used) with the actual Composer (Alexander Courage). Despite said lyrics never being featured in the show.
 
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Holammer

Member
Shutout to Gene Rodenberry actually writing lyrics to the original Star Trek theme just so he could claim Co-writing credit (and thereby half of the royalties every time it was used) with the actual Composer (Alexander Courage). Despite said lyrics never being featured in the show.
Wait what?
Damn, it's old news even. The Snopes fact check is from 1999.

 
I've never heard this song but this guy and his brother had a band in the '80s called Brunette that then changed the name to Hardline for their debut album. They got guitarist Neal Schon from Journey and released a fantastic debut album called 'Double Eclipse'. They released a few singles with the biggest being a song called 'Hot Cherie'. You still hear this song on classic hard rock radio.

 

s_mirage

Member
Hmm, some of Gioeli/Crush 40's songs are in the ASCAP database, but this one isn't as far as I can see.

So I should get a good copy of Sonic Adventure 2 before it turns into a Sonic 3 issue and you cannot rebuy it due to music licensing?

It sounds like the problem isn't SA2, it's using it anywhere else.
 
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DeVeAn

Member
Well that is some shit news. Permanent decision that will fuck up lots of future things.

The real question is what happened recently that it matters now?
 
The real question is what happened recently that it matters now?

It's motifs are in the trailer for the new Sonic movie -- it's one thing for it to sneak into some other video games these guys never hear or care about, it's another thing to hear it in an ad for a major movie release when you're watching football. Then you start looking into it...
 

Kadve

Member
Wait what?
Damn, it's old news even. The Snopes fact check is from 1999.

Yea one thing you learn from watching SF debris is that Gene was quite an asshole in general. And you can bet Alexander Courage wasn't happy about being screwed over half his royalties.

Anyway. Back to Sonic. Lets hope this doesn't spiral out to all other Crush 40 songs too.
 
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kevboard

Member
Well that is some shit news. Permanent decision that will fuck up lots of future things.

The real question is what happened recently that it matters now?

he probably noticed how popular the song is and looked into it.

dude is on tour with 2 bands, releases new albums with his main band Axel Rudi Pell every ~24 months (14 albums since 2002), is on countless albums as a guest vocalist...
I assume until now singing a handful of songs for a japanese video game wasn't something he focused much of his attention towards...

but now that the Sonic movies are massive hits and parts of his song is used in the trailer, it surely was getting his attention.
 
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Wait what?
Damn, it's old news even. The Snopes fact check is from 1999.



Banger lyrics, honestly the Great Bird should have gotten 100% of the royalties.
Beyond
The rim of the star-light
My love
Is wand'ring in star-flight
I know
He'll find in star-clustered reaches
Love,
Strange love a star woman teaches.
I know
His journey ends never
His star trek
Will go on forever.
But tell him
While he wanders his starry sea
Remember, remember me
 
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Think this article describes everything better.


His lawsuit is two-fold: Trying to clarify who has ownership of the song masters, and if it's him, he (rightfully) should get paid for the times it's been re-used in all games post SA2 (and probably when it was used in the Japanese version of the Sonic X anime.). Honestly, this is pretty much all SEGA's fuck-up.

Gioeli wants to work with them, so ignore the doom and gloom "OMG Crush 40 and SEGA are OVER" shit that people seem to be peddling. This is nothing like the Ken Penders comic bullshit.

Crush 40 musician Johnny Gioeli is suing Sega of America for breach of contract, saying the publisher only has rights to the lyrics, not any other part of the composition. Gioeli claims in the lawsuit, filed earlier in December in California and reviewed by Polygon, that he is the owner of the “master recording and composition” of the song. He says he was unaware of its usage in at least 25 different games, including re-releases of Sonic Adventure 2, Yakuza 4, Sonic Generations, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Sonic X Shadow Generations, and Sonic at the Olympic Games — and he’s alleging that Sega doesn’t have the correct licenses to use the song, which would mean that Gioeli wasn’t rightly compensated for its usage in these games.

Gioeli began working with Sega composer Jun Senoue in the ’90s, first on Sonic Adventure’s “Open Your Heart” and eventually on the title track for Sonic Adventure 2, “Live and Learn.” Together, they wrote and performed first under the name Sons of Angels, then Crush 40. Gioeli says in the lawsuit he was paid $3,000 by Sega in 2001 to write the lyrics for the then-untitled song that would eventually become “Live and Learn.”

But the scope of the work changed, his lawyers write in the lawsuit. Senoue and Gioeli worked together remotely; Senoue would send demos to Gioeli, who would rework them into a revised song, of which he owns the master recording. Gioeli’s lawsuit filing says he “controlled and oversaw the recording process, produced the recording, directed the arrangement and of the song, directed the recording progress for other musicians, and recorded and performed the vocals.” It states that his only correspondence with Sega during this process was through Senoue.

Gioeli says the master recording is credited to Crush 40, but not Sega. He has reportedly “maintained and registered” the song for decades with music licensing agency BMI, which is listed as co-written by himself and Senoue. He also holds the copyright, according to the lawsuit, where he is listed of having authorship, rights, and permissions over the music and lyrics. (The song was registered by the U.S. Copyright Office in 2024, per records.) Gioeli says he was only aware that the song would be used in Sonic Adventure 2 — not elsewhere. He learned in 2024 through a fan, his lawyers write, that “Live and Learn” is used in lots of other places.

Gioeli has worked with Sega for more than 20 years, most recently with “Green Light Ride” for Team Sonic Racing. Crush 40 also performed in the Sonic the Hedgehog 30th Anniversary Symphony in 2021. In 2016, Polygon described Crush 40’s work over the years as “some of the most memorable butt rock tracks from Sonic history (and the history of video games in general).” But the process for the rest of Gioeli’s work with Sega resulted in more specific agreements that included rights for the master recordings and compositions — something that he says isn’t the case with “Live and Learn.”

That’s why Gioeli is asking the court to determine who the owner of the masters is, and then to compensate him for the lost fees he would have gotten for licensing the songs out to Sega. Gioeli’s lawyer says that a Sega lawyer told him it doesn’t have rights to the song during correspondence regarding a Sega symphony series. In 2024, a different lawyer allegedly told Gioeli that it’s a “joint work,” and that Gioeli is entitled to “50% of Sega’s profits from the joint work,” but has “refused to account” that Gioeli is the owner, or a joint owner, of the copyrights regarding the master recording and composition.

Gioeli’s lawyer says damages for the breach of contract could be more than $500,000. Restitution for the unpaid royalties is listed at another $500,000 or more. “I have no comment other than my desire to maintain the preservation of a long standing beautiful relationship with Sega,” Gioeli told Polygon. “I do not want fans to draw conclusions or be disrupted from the beautiful memories we have made collectively with this music. I believe and hope we will come to a peaceful settlement that will be fair and just.”

Crucially, the dispute is seemingly unrelated to the song’s inclusion in Sonic the Hedgehog 3, which Gioeli confirmed in February. “I have indeed signed a deal with Paramount for song placement,” Gioeli told Aftermath in February following a tease of the song in a new trailer. “How they will use it is strictly up to them. … Paramount now has the legal right to use ‘Live and Learn’ in any manner they feel necessary.”
 
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DeVeAn

Member
yeah, I bet the licensing for the movie made him look into what Sega did with the song in the last 20 years... and I assume he didn't expect that it was in 25 games since then lol.
He would go to events for Sonic and sing his butt rock. No way he didn’t know they were using it.
he probably noticed how popular the song is and looked into it.

dude is on tour with 2 bands, releases new albums with his main band Axel Rudi Pell every ~24 months (14 albums since 2002), is on countless albums as a guest vocalist...
I assume until now singing a handful of songs for a japanese video game wasn't something he focused much of his attention towards...

but now that the Sonic movies are massive hits and parts of his song is used in the trailer, it surely was getting his attention.
He constantly showed up an events related to Sonic I was at one in LA when Sonic generations released. Yes he played that song. He worked with Sega as recently as Team Sonic Racing. He really had no idea? Seems like he wants Hollywood money to me.
 

kevboard

Member
He would go to events for Sonic and sing his butt rock. No way he didn’t know they were using it.

He constantly showed up an events related to Sonic I was at one in LA when Sonic generations released. Yes he played that song. He worked with Sega as recently as Team Sonic Racing. He really had no idea? Seems like he wants Hollywood money to me.

I could totally see him not knowing how much they used the song.

from his perspective, Crush 40 isn't even his 3rd largest music project currently.

also, he gets the Hollywood money either way, he licensed the song to the movie, he wants the money from past game sales not from the movie.
 
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