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[Broshnat]

All shipment figures as of December 2004.

PS2

19.47m Japan
32.86m USA
29.06m Europe

81.39 Total


XB

1.70m Japan (asia pacific- some discrepancy as sony and microsft count as japan, others count as Europe/Pal)
13.20m USA
5.00m Europe

19.90m Total


GC

3.78m Japan
10.11m USA
4.13m Europe

18.02m Total


GBA

15.48m Japan
32.82m USA
17.44m Europe

65.74 Total


DS

1.45m Japan
1.36m USA
0.03m Europe

2.84m Total


PSP

0.51m Japan

0.51m Total


PS

21.13m Japan
40.78m USA
39.82m Europe

101.73m Total


N64

5.54m Japan
27.39m Other

32.93m Total


GB

32.47m Japan
86.22m Other

118.69m Total


SNES

17.15m Japan
31.87m Other

49.02m Total


NES

19.23m Japan
42.55m Other

61.78m Total


Genesis / Mega Drive

3.58m Japan
27.17m Other

30.75m Total


Saturn

5.74m Japan
3.52m Other

9.26m Total


Game Gear

1.78m Japan
6.87m Other

8.65m Total


Dreamcast

2.30m Japan
8.30m Other

10.60m Total


Totals:

118.69 GB
101.73 PS
81.39 PS2
65.74 GBA
61.78 NES
49.02 SNES
32.93 N64
30.75 Genesis
19.90 XBox
18.02 GC
10.60 DC
9.26 Saturn
8.65 Game Gear
2.84 DS
0.51 PSP


Japan:

32.47 GB
21.13 PS
19.47 PS2
19.23 NES
17.15 SNES
15.48 GBA
5.74 Saturn
5.54 N64
3.78 GC
3.58 Genesis
2.30 DC
1.78 Game Gear
1.70 XBox
1.45 DS
0.51 PSP

 

[Culex]

PS2

19.47m Japan
32.86m USA
29.06m Europe

81.39 Total


XB

1.70m Japan
13.20m USA
5.00m Europe

19.90m Total


GC
3.78m Japan
10.11m USA
4.13m Europe

18.02m Total

MS shipped THREE TIMES as many systems as they've sold in Japan? Wow! :lol

 

[Project Midway]

Japan != Asia



And Xbox is at 5mil in EU...

edit: too slow =)

 

[Speevy]

Do SNES/Genny/NES

 

[neptunes]

GameGear-Saturn

plzthx

 

[sonycowboy]

All shipment figures as of December 2004.

XB

1.70m Japan
13.20m USA
5.00m Europe

19.90m Total

Cool. I hadn't seen the Xbox breakdown of the 19.9M. Did you get that off a Microsoft report somewhere or was mentioned on the webcast?

 

[Broshnat]

Cool. I hadn't seen the Xbox breakdown of the 19.9M. Did you get that off a Microsoft report somewhere?

Look on the main page, the one that says "5m shipped in Europe"

 

[Miburou]

How does the DS stand at 30,000 sold in Europe when it hasn't been released there yet?

And I'm pretty sure I've seen the NES at 69M shipped on one of those Nintendo financial statements.

 

[Culex]

How does the DS stand at 30,000 sold in Europe when it hasn't been released there yet?

And I'm pretty sure I've seen the NES at 69M shipped on one of those Nintendo financial statements.

Imports, most likely.

 

[AirBrian]

All shipment figures as of December 2004.

GBA

15.48m Japan
32.82m USA
17.44m Europe

65.74 Total

GB

32.47m Japan
86.22m Other

118.69m Total

I know it's been said many times, but Gameboy numbers are just sick.

 

[sonycowboy]

Current Generation Sales (not including Dreamcast - if someone wants to give me a breakdown, I'll add it)

Region         PS2          XBOX           GCN           GBA       Total
Japan   19,470,000     1,700,000     3,780,000    15,480,000  40,430,000
USA     32,860,000    13,200,000    10,110,000    32,820,000  88,990,000
Europe  29,060,000     5,000,000     4,130,000    17,440,000  55,630,000
Total   81,390,000    19,900,000    18,020,000    65,740,000 185,050,000

 

[Speevy]

It's weird that the 16 bit generation is considered a tie, when the battle for second place in this one is compared to an ass-kicking.

 

[jedimike]

The N64 doesn't look right... do you still have that wedbush report sonycowboy? I believe it had the breakdown for older systems. I don't have it here at work.

 

[Miburou]

It's weird that the 16 bit generation is considered a tie, when the battle for second place in this one is compared to an ass-kicking.

What?

 

[Miburou]

BTW, what's the breakdown for the GB numbers? (no, I don't consider the GB and GBC to be the same system).

 

[Broshnat]

BTW, what's the breakdown for the GB numbers? (no, I don't consider the GB and GBC to be the same system).

GB

20.61 Japan
48.81 Other

69.42 Total


GBC

11.86 Japan
37.41 Other

49.27 Total


GBA

15.48 Japan
50.26 Other

65.74 Total

 

[jarrod]

Japan != Asia



And Xbox is at 5mil in EU...

edit: too slow =)

Or more correctly, Japan != Asia Pacific.

Xbox has sold about 500k each in JP and AU iirc.

The N64 doesn't look right... do you still have that wedbush report sonycowboy? I believe it had the breakdown for older systems. I don't have it here at work.

Yep, that report had NES around 38M in the US alone iirc. I've seen Saturn estimates as high as 14M too worldwide (though that might be including the various licensed machines from JVC, Hitachi, Samsung, etc). What's the origin of these numbers exactly?

 

[Broshnat]

Or more correctly, Japan != Asia Pacific.

Xbox has sold about 500k each in JP and AU iirc.



Yep, that report had NES around 38M in the US alone iirc. I've seen Saturn estimates as high as 14M too worldwide (though that might be including the various licensed machines from JVC, Hitachi, Samsung, etc). What's the origin of these numbers exactly?

Nintendo financial reports
Sega financial reports
Sony financial reports
Microsoft financial reports
CESA annual reports

i.e. straight from the manufacturers.

 

[jarrod]

GB

20.61 Japan
48.81 Other

69.42 Total


GBC

11.86 Japan
37.41 Other

49.27 Total


GBA

15.48 Japan
50.26 Other

65.74 Total

Holy crap, that's the first time I've ever seen GB/GBC breakdowns (GBC sold an insane amount in just 3-4 years, no wonder Nintendo kept pushing GBA back). Too bad we don't have old GB numbers pre and post Pokemon.

Nintendo financial reports
Sega financial reports
Sony financial reports
Microsoft financial reports
CESA annual reports

i.e. straight from the manufacturers.

So it wouldn't include variant machines then from other manufacturers, right?


Also, do you have iQue numbers by any chance?

 

[sonycowboy]

Sony console sales = 183,120,000
Nintendo console sales = 161,750,000

Nintendo handheld sales = 187,270,000
Sony handheld sales = 510,000


Sony's moving in :lol

 

[human5892]

What?

He means that some believe the SNES and Genesis generation ended in a tie, despite the fact that the SNES ended up significantly ahead of the Genesis. By contrast, the attitude towards the Xbox and the GC is sometimes "It's not even close!" when in fact it's much closer than the SNES and Genesis ended up to be.

 

[Broshnat]

Holy crap, that's the first time I've ever seen GB/GBC breakdowns (GBC sold an insane amount in just 3-4 years, no wonder Nintendo kept pushing GBA back). Too bad we don't have old GB numbers pre and post Pokemon.



So it wouldn't include variant machines then from other manufacturers, right?

Well outside of Japan that's virtually what you have (iirc- didn't both launch late 98?)

In Japan, GB was on more like 12-13m pre-Pokemon.

Had there been no Pokemon and GBC, then GB would have probably ended up around 70m




The same split should be done for PS/PSone:

PS

18.20 Japan
28.08 USA
28.86 Europe

75.15 Total


PSOne

3.73 Japan
12.70 USA
10.96 Europe

27.39 Total

 

[Broshnat]

He means that some believe the SNES and Genesis generation ended in a tie, despite the fact that the SNES ended up significantly ahead of the Genesis. By contrast, the attitude towards the Xbox and the GC is sometimes "It's not even close!" when in fact it's much closer than the SNES and Genesis ended up to be.

Well outside of Japan, SNES and Genesis were very close really, closer than XB / GC.

But yes, I do agree with the original point that the GC/XB gap isn't that big at all

 

[AirBrian]

Sony console sales = 183,120,000
Nintendo console sales = 143,730,000

Nintendo handheld sales = 187,270,000
Sony handheld sales = 510,000


Sony's moving in :lol

You forgot GCN:

Sony console sales = 183,120,000
Nintendo console sales = 161,750,000

It's amazing that Sony has sold more hardware in 2 generations than Nintendo has in 4.

 

[jarrod]

Well outside of Japan that's virtually what you have (iirc- didn't both launch late 98?)

In Japan, GB was on more like 12-13m pre-Pokemon.

Had there been no Pokemon and GBC, then GB would have probably ended up around 70m

Before Pokemon, GB was essentially a dead platform... Nintendo revived it after Virtual Boy flopped. It was a combo of software (mainly Pokemon, but also other filler stuff like Wario Land 2, Game & Watch Gallery or the Mario Picross series) and system redesigns (GB Pocket, GB Light). Pokemon was really what ignited things though, without it there might not even be a handheld market today. I honestly don't think GB would've broken 50m without it.

 

[Broshnat]

Indeed.

Although if anything is to be taken from these numbers, it's how much the videogame market (in the US and especially Europe) has grown over the years.

It's now big enough to supprt 3 consoles (120m total userbase) and 65m userbase of handhelds.

SNES / MD were 80m for example.

GB / PS hard to judge since 27m PSones were sold (!!!!) and GB sold in various incarnations over many years, but there has definitely been a growth (probably 30-40% USA and 3-4 times over in Europe)

 

[Broshnat]

Before Pokemon, GB was essentially a dead platform... Nintendo revived it after Virtual Boy flopped. It was a combo of software (mainly Pokemon, but also other filler stuff like Wario Land 2, Game & Watch Gallery or the Mario Picross series) and system redesigns (GB Pocket, GB Light). Pokemon was really what ignited things though, without it there might not even be a handheld market today. I honestly don't think GB would've broken 50m without it.

Well, it had sold 52.97m by March 97 worldwide (15.02m Japan, 37.95 other)- so make whatever judgements you want from that. That was after a year of Pokemon in Japan (although it had only sold around 3m by now, it went into overdrive in 1998- see my post http://forums.gaming-age.com/showpost.php?p=932662&postcount=36)


And we have some people saying PSP will sell 20m this year alone? :lol :lol

 

[jarrod]

Also, I'm guessing the chart doesn't include 3rd party console varaints. Meaning the totals are missing...

NES/Famicom
-Sharp Twin Famicom
-Various Sharp Famicom TVs

Game Boy family
-Matsushitsa Q Game Boy Player

Genesis/MegaDrive
-Amstrad MegaPC
-JVC X'Eye
-Pioneer CLD-A100 Laseractive module
-Aiwa CSD-GM1
-Tec Toy MegaDrive
-Majesco Genesis 3

Game Gear
-Tec Toy Game Gear
-Majesco Game Gear

Saturn
-JVC V-Saturn
-Hitachi Hi-Saturn Navi
-Samsung Saturn

GameCube
-Matsushitsa Q

...I'm also guessing inhouse hybrid variants and adapters likely aren't included. So...

Game Boy family
-Super Game Boy
-Super Game Boy 2
-Game Boy Player

Genesis/MegaDrive
-TeraDrive
-Genesis CDX
-MegaJet
-Genesis Nomad

PlayStation 2
-PSX

...there's probably some I'm missing.

 

[Tulkas]

Model	Count	Manufacture
----------------------------------------------
XBox	019.9	MS
----------------------------------------------
	019.9	MS Total
	019.9	MS Average
	019.9	MS Max
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------		
DS	002.84	Nintendo
GC	018.02	Nintendo
N64	032.93	Nintendo
SNES	049.02	Nintendo
GBC	049.27	Nintendo
NES	061.78	Nintendo
GBA	065.74	Nintendo
GB	069.42	Nintendo
----------------------------------------------
	349.02	Nintendo Total
	043.63	Nintendo Average
	069.42	Nintendo Max
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
GameGear	008.65	Sega
Saturn	009.26	Sega
DC	010.60	Sega
Genesis	030.75	Sega
-----------------------------------------------
	059.26	Sega Total
	014.82	Sega Average
	030.75	Sega Max
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
PSP	000.51	Sony
PS2	081.39	Sony
PS	101.73	Sony
-----------------------------------------------
	183.63	Sony Total
	061.21	Sony Average
	101.73	Sony Max
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------		
	611.81	Grand Total
	038.24	Grand Average
	101.73	Grand Max

 

[BlackClouds]

Where's the PC Engine/TG16 numbers? Always the forgotton console, but it did come in 3rd place during the 16bit era.

 

[Pimpwerx]

And we have some people saying PSP will sell 20m this year alone? :lol :lol

We also have people saying the PSP won't sell 10M in this year alone. :lol :lol :lol PEACE.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'd like to see Jaguar, 3DO, Nomad, Lynx and TurbeExpress numbers too, although I am sure they are small.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Whose saying 20 M PSPs? I thoght Pimpwerx was the main advocate and holding steady at 15M.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Whose saying 20 M PSPs? I thoght Pimpwerx was the main advocate and holding steady at 15M.

Well, I am the ONLY advocate of such wacky predictions, but it means I'll have sole bragging right if.....no...WHEN I'm right. And if I'm wrong, hopefully people will forget...except Broshnat, who'll probably never let me hear the end of it. :lol PEACE.

 

[Speevy]

Well, Nintendo has something like 167 million sellers, so there.

 

[Speevy]

So the PSP will sell 5 million at launch in NA?

Awesome.

:lol

 

[Notorious]

What about European Master System numbers?

 

[Gaz Ultra!]

Although Gamecube has done well in Japan, I can't see it surpassing the N64 in that region. Which is a shame because GC has retained so many of the things that made the N64 so great, including even a 'realistic' looking Zelda.

Does anyone think that GC might have outsold Xbox by the time they're both dead?

 

[milanbaros]

Its seems that the hardware side of the industry is expanding from generation to generation. I dont know how well the last generation of hardware had sold up to this point in their cycle but considering the incredible psone sales i reckon they were tracking some way behind the current set.

If it weren't for sony's dominace three console manufacturers could easily survive and it looks like next generation might see more of a balance (between Microsoft and Sony at least). If next generation sees the industry sustain its growth I can see all three companies seeing increased hardware sales despite an evening out of the share.

 

[Azelover]

It's weird that the 16 bit generation is considered a tie, when the battle for second place in this one is compared to an ass-kicking.

The 16 bit generation was a tie in the US. The Cube has been behind Xbox in America all the time, from the moment it launched till now. The SNES on the other hand was often times ahead, often times behind the Genesis without much of a difference between them. So in comparison they(Nintendo) are getting their ass kicked now.

 

[jarrod]

What about European Master System numbers?

What about any Master Systems... it's missing entirely. :/

 

[jarrod]

The 16 bit generation was a tie in the US. The Cube has been behind Xbox in America all the time, from the moment it launched till now. The SNES on the other hand was often times ahead, often times behind the Genesis without much of a difference between them. So in comparison they(Nintendo) are getting their ass kicked now.

Not really... SNES moved about 18-20M here total while Genesis moved 15-17M total. It's almost exactly the same as the Xbox/GC gap in America and GC/Xbox had some back in fourth as well (GC did outsell Xbox for 2003 remember). I expect GC (like SNES) will also benefit from Xbox (like Genesis) having it's lifespan cut short in favor of it's successor. The only "ass kicking" is coming from Sony's direction really.

 

[sonycowboy]

Well, I am the ONLY advocate of such wacky predictions, but it means I'll have sole bragging right if.....no...WHEN I'm right. And if I'm wrong, hopefully people will forget...except Broshnat, who'll probably never let me hear the end of it. :lol PEACE.

My only contention with your 20M number was I thought you were referring to 2004. If you're going by March 2004 - March 2005 then 15M is an imminently reachable number worldwide. 20M is possible, but it's quite a stretch.

It's still way to early to try and reasonably make estimates though. PSP software price points, multimedia usage of the PSP, capability of the PSP to actually reach to the "mature" market for a handheld and actually expand the market, and finally the competition with the PS2, Xbox, and Xenon markets are all still pretty unknown at this point. The PSP has quite a few obstacles before I would give it an "all clear" sign to sell ungodly amounts.

I'm certainly optimistic about it's chances, but it's going to be very, very interesting with so many systems and so much hardware on the market. At some point, somethings going to have to give.

PS2
GBA
Xbox
GCN
PSP
Nintendo DS
Xenon

should all be viable systems in 2005, but there's only a fixed amount of dollars out there to spend on them.

 

[jarrod]

I'm certainly optimistic about it's chances, but it's going to be very, very interesting with so many systems and so much hardware on the market. At some point, somethings going to have to give.

PS2
GBA
Xbox
GCN
PSP
Nintendo DS
Xenon

should all be viable systems in 2005, but there's only a fixed amount of dollars out there to spend on them.

I think GC/Xbox will suffer the most, and see dramatically reduced retail presence. GBA/PS2 will continue pushing huge numbers, DS/PSP will ramp up and Xenon will just be starting at the tail end, so it's a bit of a non factor. 2005 will be the year of handhelds.

 

[sonycowboy]

I think GC/Xbox will suffer the most, and see dramatically reduced retail presence. GBA/PS2 will continue pushing huge numbers, DS/PSP will ramp up and Xenon will just be starting at the tail end, so it's a bit of a non factor. 2005 will be the year of handhelds.

I'm not so sure at all about that. I think the GBA will fall the hardest, but still be the 2nd best selling system behind the PS2. Just look at what the price points will be this year and it should be an extremely strong year for the consoles. I also think that despite the handheld market expanding, the GBA vs DS vs PSP will cannabilize each other somewhat and limit thier potential sales.

Expected Price Points
---------------------------
Xenon - $299
PS2 - $129/$99
Xbox - $129/$99
GCN - $79

GBA = $59
DS = $149/$129
PSP = $199/$179

The consoles will pretty much be the cheapest systems on the market (minus the GBA), have the most software, and have the lions share of new releases. I don't see how they won't have the most sales.

 

[jarrod]

I'm not so sure at all about that. I think the GBA will fall the hardest, but still be the 2nd best selling system behind the PS2. Just look at what the price points will be this year and it should be an extremely strong year for the consoles. I also think that despite the handheld market expanding, the GBA vs DS vs PSP will cannabilize each other somewhat and limit thier potential sales.

Expected Price Points
---------------------------
Xenon - $299
PS2 - $129/$99
Xbox - $129/$99
GCN - $79

GBA = $59
DS = $149/$129
PSP = $199/$179

The consoles will pretty much be the cheapest systems on the market (minus the GBA), have the most software, and have the lions share of new releases. I don't see how they won't have the most sales.

Sure, but GBA's got farther to drop. Hell it was moving 400-500k a month last summer, even if it halves that this year it'll probably still be outdoing every other machine. PStwo is the wildcard though, I think a drop to $99 there could really drive sales insanely. GBA will still benefit from the budget/kid markets immensely though, something Sony for whatever reason seems to be ignoring with their PStwo redesign. It probably should've been 'cuter'.

I also expect DS will probably drop to whatever PS2/Xbox do, be it $129 or $99. They need to start pushing their pricing advantage over PSP, sooner rather than later if they want to survive in the market. I think GBASP's more likely to drop to $49 as well (PSone & GBPocket did a lot of sales at this price point).

In terms of new software though, Xbox looks pretty dry as does GameCube outside a few notable big names. PS2 looks solid, but I think DS & PSP announcmetns are really going to overshadow the console announcements this year. Next year thing will revert as Xenon settles and PS3/Revolution loom.

 

[sonycowboy]

In terms of new software though, Xbox looks pretty dry as does GameCube outside a few notable big names. PS2 looks solid, but I think DS & PSP announcmetns are really going to overshadow the console announcements this year. Next year thing will revert as Xenon settles and PS3/Revolution loom.

I actually expect the Xbox to have a pretty damn good year. I just don't see the drop off in software that people are talking about with the Xbox. In the last half of the year in 2004, Xbox had Halo 2, Fable, DOA: Ultimate, & KOTOR 2 as their big guns to go with Ninja Gaiden, RSC 2, Riddick, & FSW.

This year they've got:
1) Stranger (not sure how this will do at retail)
2) Doom 3
3) Forza
4) SW: Republic Commando
5) Unreal Championship 2
6) Conker
7) Jade Empire
8) WWE Wrestlemania
9) Rainbow Six: Lockdown
10) Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
11) GTA: San Andreas
12) Full EA lineup
13) Full Activision lineup
14) Advent Rising
15) Pariah
16) Black

Certainly, no Halo 2 on the horizon, but GTA:SA should do incredibly well. I understand there's not much visibility for the second half, but all of the multiplatform games should be there.

 

[heidern]

The consoles will pretty much be the cheapest systems on the market (minus the GBA), have the most software, and have the lions share of new releases. I don't see how they won't have the most sales.

The only thing is, the consoles are reaching saturation point whereas the DS and PSP are just starting. The GC has clearly slowed down but with some good software it may be farily stable. The Xbox will slow once Xenon info gets out and the poor release schedule(as opposed too Fable+Halo2 last year) fails to inspire the great growth the Xbox saw this year. PS2 could do very well with the new design and maybe a price cut, but it is getting to the twilight years now.

The GBA could struggle, but Pokemon Emerald is yet to hit Europe and a cut to $50 could do wonders. It may not be at the cutting edge of the market anymore, but as a budget product with games like Minish Cap it could very well sneak in some great great sales.

The DS and PSP? Well the handheld market goes from strength to strength.

 

[Fuzzy]

What about any Master Systems... it's missing entirely. :/

Yeah, I'm also interested to see how the SMS did in each territory as well as worldwide.

 

[Broshnat]

Yeah, I'm also interested to see how the SMS did in each territory as well as worldwide.

I've never seen any Master System numbers, I'll look around though...