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[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

Cool you think it's fine for citizens to be executed for their skin pigment by state power but it's the end of the republic if it's turned en mass on to a bunch of white supremacists, like the confederacy. (Aka the contemporary idea of a ethnostate).

American police shoot loads of white people. It's disingenuous to pretend police violence is exclusively targeted at minorities, and doing so only furthers ambivalence towards changing the underlying structural issues in the American justice system.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Actually antifa are extremely good.

They don't make an effort to play nice with the media or play the public perception game.

They don't give a fuck about Trevor Noah concern trolling or neogaf political pundits wringing their hands.

Antifa are the public body's natural reaction to a virulent disease that the normal immune system is incapable of dealing with.

They exist to intimidate and sideline fascist groups. Which they have done very well in the last few weeks.

People posting on the internet about how breaking Starbucks windows is as bad as advocating genocide are just straight up not part of antifa's area of concern. Those people can play make believe West Wing on message boards and pretend like all we need is vigorous debate. Those people can whine about tone and discourse because their rights are being protected by hard line anti-fascist groups.

You might not appreciate it, it might make you uncomfortable. In the same way that a person might not enjoy having a fever. But a fever is a necessary bit of discomfort in the pursuit of eradicating an infection, and antifa are a necessary bit of social disruption in the pursuit of, well, also eradicating an infection.

Some not-very-funny both sides lib comedian or a bunch of extremely online posters are not going to like antifa because, unlike almost any other actor or group in American politics (including Nazis, btw) they aren't interested in getting the media on their side. Leave sweet talking reporters to the Richard Spencers of the world - all it takes is a nice suit and recent haircut for mainstream media outlets to take people like him seriously. The media can't protect you from fascism, and constantly worrying about but how will this look in the media isn't actually helpful at all.

Not everything is a comment section battle. Not every political question is settled with upvotes and downvotes. Trevor Noah doesn't like how antifa cut cultural gatekeepers like him out of the public conversation. He (and people like him) want politics to happen in hashtags and televised debates and op ed columns.

They want the argument to happen in the space where pundits, comedians and journalists set the agenda. To them, political action that occurs outside of some ill-defined 'mainstream discourse' of party slogans and media self-succ is inherently threatening and should be opposed as vigorously as actual fascists.

Trevor Noah and people like him will always be concerned with how antifa looks and who is winning 'the argument' because it's a political method that sees people like him as useless.

 

[Bastables]

American police shoot loads of white people. It's disingenuous to pretend police violence is exclusively targeted at minorities, and doing so only furthers ambivalence towards changing the underlying structural issues in the American justice system.

White lives matter huh.

 

[legacyzero]

Racism is absolutely a major if not tje major thing that helped Trump win. That's ummm not a myth. Wtf.

Clinton won the economy voters in most of the swing states.

I dont think anybody on the left disagrees with you there. Especially me. What we're saying is that it wasn't the ONLY factor. Also- Clinton winning the "economy voters" in most swing states? Tell that to the ENTIRE democratic firewall.

The sooner we can all agree that it wasn't just one issue that made Trump president, the better we can call come together and be a better party.

 

[Osahi]

This just shows that ''the public opinion'' was hostile to the demonstrators anyway, and just needed any reason at all to turn on them.

The same will happen with all the ''but punching nazi's is wrong'' people: they will join the fascists if push comes to shove and its a choice between them and some left movement.

That's bullshit on both accounts.

You know what, people don't tend to listen to you or take you seriously if you're violent or go out and punch people/destroy property. Weird huh? You invalidate your whole point by resorting to violence, because your basicly saying: I can't convince you without punching you in the face.

And about the non-violence people 'joining' the Nazi's. What are you smoking? And can I get some? Must be great stuff. Really? What mental gymnastics take you to that crazy conclusion. It's this sort of 'if you don't agree with me, you're as bad as my enemies' that is so fucking poisonous.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

In this topic:

GAF can't believe just how GAF GAF is GAFing, while more than half of GAF disagrees with GAFers in typical GAF fashion..😃

 

[excelsiorlef]

I dont think anybody on the left disagrees with you there. Especially me. What we're saying is that it wasn't the ONLY factor. Also- Clinton winning the "economy voters" in most swing states? Tell that to the ENTIRE democratic firewall.

The sooner we can all agree that it wasn't just one issue that made Trump president, the better we can call come together and be a better party.

The person I replied to called it a myth dude.

And I stand corrected it was all 3 of the main ones: WI, MI, PA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...linton-on-the-economy/?utm_term=.ccc360aad742

Oh and most states period.

 

[legacyzero]

The person I replied to called it a myth dude.

And I stand corrected it was all 3 of the main ones: WI, MI, PA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...linton-on-the-economy/?utm_term=.ccc360aad742

Oh. Yeah, it's not a myth. Dude is racist as fuck LMAO.

 

[ldcommando]

In this topic:

GAF can't believe just how GAF GAF is GAFing, while more than half of GAF disagrees with GAFers in typical GAF fashion..😃

neogaf.gif

 

[stupei]

I thought you were saying that you didn't understand what the point was and then listed those as things that it couldn't be and therefore it must not have a logical purpose, so I was saying it doesn't have to meet those criteria to have a purpose. If no one forms their opinions based on bits then I guess there is no purpose, because TDS is all comedy bits, and no one should expect there to be or look for one. I just don't see how it has to either progress the cause to have a purpose, or even how it implies that the left has to do some soul searching. Its a passing critique on the stated fringes of a movement, and that are weaponized against us all the time anyways.

Perhaps we were talking past each other somewhat. My apologies if I was being overly obtuse. I do think it's possible for comedy news to be informative and to occasionally even sway people, but I also don't think anyone who is very concerned with the vandalism that might occur at protests and its influence on respectability politics didn't already feel that way. I think people who consider it a rather minor fringe element still feel that way. Nothing about this particular bit was all that revelatory. And that can be fine because, yes, it's still primarily a comedy show.

But I do think that it's worth remembering that the right's current narrative is that Antifa is a very large problem and while there are certainly things worth criticizing within any given movement, allowing the right to dictate the overall course of public conversation has never gone well for progressive politics in America. There's a difference between a debate about approach or technique to protest on a forum and a very public platform that further amplifies the conservative narrative. Obviously his intent is not to vilify the entire movement, but if the point is that we are worried about respectability politics and "how the moderates will perceive us," then it's pretty naive not to acknowledge the rather likely scenario where all forms of counter protest against white supremacy are viewed in a similar light within a month or two. Disavowing did very little for BLM.

 

[The_blonde_and_blue]

The person I replied to called it a myth dude.

And I stand corrected it was all 3 of the main ones: WI, MI, PA

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...linton-on-the-economy/?utm_term=.ccc360aad742

Oh and most states period.

Legacy made my point better than I did. It was not any single ONE issue why we lost.

 

[Bastables]

That's bullshit on both accounts.

You know what, people don't tend to listen to you or take you seriously if you're violent or go out and punch people/destroy property. Weird huh? You invalidate your whole point by resorting to violence, because your basicly saying: I can't convince you without punching you in the face.

And about the non-violence people 'joining' the Nazi's. What are you smoking? And can I get some? Must be great stuff. Really? What mental gymnastics take you to that crazy conclusion. It's this sort of 'if you don't agree with me, you're as bad as my enemies' that is so fucking poisonous.

Yeah hitler decided to end himself after realising the error of his ways after enlightening fire side chats with Iosf and Winston. He never would have made that decision when just confronted with Soviet armies murdering their way through his peaceful ethnostate utopia.

Maybe his seed discussions with N Chamberlain finally sprouted and he had an realisation, "yes peace in our time, I see now my English friend, I see."

 

[excelsiorlef]

Legacy made my point better than I did. It was not any single ONE issue why we lost.

It was the defining reason though.

 

[uncelestial]

Reminds me of Jon Stewart only covering Occupy Wall Street in order to shit all over them.

 

[JustenP88]

FBI and DHS classify Antifa as domestic terrorists and warn of future attacks. Cool we're all safe awesome this isn't problematic in the slightest.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

It was the defining reason though.

And, obviously, the only reason that matters in the context of this argument.

 

[Tain]

Actually antifa are extremely good.

They don't make an effort to play nice with the media or play the public perception game.

They don't give a fuck about Trevor Noah concern trolling or neogaf political pundits wringing their hands.

Antifa are the public body's natural reaction to a virulent disease that the normal immune system is incapable of dealing with.

They exist to intimidate and sideline fascist groups. Which they have done very well in the last few weeks.

People posting on the internet about how breaking Starbucks windows is as bad as advocating genocide are just straight up not part of antifa's area of concern. Those people can play make believe West Wing on message boards and pretend like all we need is vigorous debate. Those people can whine about tone and discourse because their rights are being protected by hard line anti-fascist groups.

You might not appreciate it, it might make you uncomfortable. In the same way that a person might not enjoy having a fever. But a fever is a necessary bit of discomfort in the pursuit of eradicating an infection, and antifa are a necessary bit of social disruption in the pursuit of, well, also eradicating an infection.

Some not-very-funny both sides lib comedian or a bunch of extremely online posters are not going to like antifa because, unlike almost any other actor or group in American politics (including Nazis, btw) they aren't interested in getting the media on their side. Leave sweet talking reporters to the Richard Spencers of the world - all it takes is a nice suit and recent haircut for mainstream media outlets to take people like him seriously. The media can't protect you from fascism, and constantly worrying about but how will this look in the media isn't actually helpful at all.

Not everything is a comment section battle. Not every political question is settled with upvotes and downvotes. Trevor Noah doesn't like how antifa cut cultural gatekeepers like him out of the public conversation. He (and people like him) want politics to happen in hashtags and televised debates and op ed columns.

They want the argument to happen in the space where pundits, comedians and journalists set the agenda. To them, political action that occurs outside of some ill-defined 'mainstream discourse' of party slogans and media self-succ is inherently threatening and should be opposed as vigorously as actual fascists.

Trevor Noah and people like him will always be concerned with how antifa looks and who is winning 'the argument' because it's a political method that sees people like him as useless.

hard agree

 

[excelsiorlef]

FBI and DHS classify Antifa as domestic terrorists and warn of future attacks. Cool we're all safe awesome this isn't problematic in the slightest.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

And yet Nazis, white supremacists are allowed to do whatever lol.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Liberals still can't tell the difference between nazis and antifa. Same shit, different century.


You sound like you know absolutely nothing about this stuff.

I know it didn't make the Nazis go away. Things only escalated until they murdered someone. It's just not effective and it alienates about 50 percent of the LEFT, so what's the point?

The people that seem clueless to me are the Antifa. They're out there play acting as revolutionaries, but the people they're playing with aren't playing. White supremacists are usually criminals, they're often involved in criminal enterprises, murders and domestic terrorism, and they have no qualms about violence. Or firearms. Antifa shows up with improvised weapons like good little anti-gun Marxists, Nazis show up with AR-15s. I thought a pretty telling image was the Antifa guy people were passing around a picture of using a spray can flamethrower. Later we see a video of a Nazi who takes a fucking shot at him. He misses, but that's because on his first shot where's he's clearly aiming at the guy his safety was off.

So, yeah, both sides definitely are not the same. I agree with an earlier poster who said that these groups should be treated like potential criminal gangs and it should never have to get to the point of fighting in the street.

 

[shamanick]

FBI and DHS classify Antifa as domestic terrorists and warn of future attacks. Cool we're all safe awesome this isn't problematic in the slightest.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235




And, obviously, the only reason that matters in the context of this argument.

JFC I hope the libs are happy

 

[Rookhelm]

What is concern trolling, btw?

 

[off duty ninja]

I know it didn't make the Nazis go away. Things only escalated until they murdered someone. It's just not effective and it alienates about 50 percent of the LEFT, so what's the point?

Right?! I am pretty sure that these people WANT WW3 because it wasn't anti fascist fringe groups that brought down the Nazis. Comparing antifa to the millions of people that gave their lives to end the Nazi scourge is about the most pathetic equivalence I have seen in this thread and extremely offensive.

Do we all forget how many lives communism took in the 20th Century?

Edit: Growing up in the 80's at the end of the Cold War I always thought that the communist boogeymen that the right talked about were just some sort of "old-people" fear that wasn't worth giving any credence to. Now I can see that ideological extremes are the root of our issues in this world and as long as ANYBODY tries to enforce a way of life on people that they don't ascribe to it will lead to violence. Regardless of the "quality" of the ideology.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

FBI and DHS classify Antifa as domestic terrorists and warn of future attacks. Cool we're all safe awesome this isn't problematic in the slightest.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235




And, obviously, the only reason that matters in the context of this argument.

But hey, the kkk is just a bunch of people with differing opinions.

 

[shamanick]

I know it didn't make the Nazis go away. Things only escalated until they murdered someone. It's just not effective and it alienates about 50 percent of the LEFT, so what's the point?

There's a lot of testimony that you can easily find online about how Antifa prevented attacks and defended people against Nazis. The fact that someone was murdered doesn't provethat Antifa is ineffective; I'm sure glad they were able to prevent the violence that they did.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

He doesn't say that. He says "people see them like that." Not that he sees them like that.
It's not that hard.

Well, apparently, it is. Reading comprehension is a great challenge for many.

Actually antifa are extremely good.

They don't make an effort to play nice with the media or play the public perception game.

They don't give a fuck about Trevor Noah concern trolling or neogaf political pundits wringing their hands.

Antifa are the public body's natural reaction to a virulent disease that the normal immune system is incapable of dealing with.

They exist to intimidate and sideline fascist groups. Which they have done very well in the last few weeks.

People posting on the internet about how breaking Starbucks windows is as bad as advocating genocide are just straight up not part of antifa's area of concern.

What about those who think that breaking Starbucks windows isn't as bad as nazis, but still, you know, bad?

Antifas are not "extremely good". If they use violence against actual nazis? Fine, whatever. When they go against the wrong targets? Then they are fucking idiots behaving in extremely counter-productive ways, and absolutely need to be called out for it.

There is zero excuse for breaking Starbucks windows, using threats to cancel non-political music concerts, or harassing innocent people. Saying "nazis are worse" doesn't counter that whatsoever.

Some not-very-funny both sides lib comedian or a bunch of extremely online posters are not going to like antifa because, unlike almost any other actor or group in American politics (including Nazis, btw) they aren't interested in getting the media on their side. Leave sweet talking reporters to the Richard Spencers of the world - all it takes is a nice suit and recent haircut for mainstream media outlets to take people like him seriously. The media can't protect you from fascism, and constantly worrying about but how will this look in the media isn't actually helpful at all.

Who knows. You are right that they don't care about optics, but whether or not they should care is debatable, because, like it or not, antifas don't just make themselves look bad in the public eye: they also taint, and alienate, moderate leftists in general.

Over here in Québec we had antifa violence against a white supremacist group, and instead of talking about that shitty white supremacist group, the media focused on the antifa violence -- which is exactly what that white supremacist group wanted. It played right into their hand. That's not a good thing for antifas nor for moderate leftist progress in general.

 

[Kinyou]

What is concern trolling, btw?

I believe this is the most common definition:

A concern troll visits sites of an opposing ideology and offers advice on how they could "improve" things, either in their tactical use of rhetoric, site rules, or with more philosophical consistency. The "improvements" are almost exclusively intended to be less effective.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

Don't know how this applies to Trevor Noah unless people think he's on the side of the nazis

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Actually antifa are extremely good.

They don't make an effort to play nice with the media or play the public perception game.

They don't give a fuck about Trevor Noah concern trolling or neogaf political pundits wringing their hands.

Antifa are the public body's natural reaction to a virulent disease that the normal immune system is incapable of dealing with.

They exist to intimidate and sideline fascist groups. Which they have done very well in the last few weeks.

People posting on the internet about how breaking Starbucks windows is as bad as advocating genocide are just straight up not part of antifa's area of concern. Those people can play make believe West Wing on message boards and pretend like all we need is vigorous debate. Those people can whine about tone and discourse because their rights are being protected by hard line anti-fascist groups.

You might not appreciate it, it might make you uncomfortable. In the same way that a person might not enjoy having a fever. But a fever is a necessary bit of discomfort in the pursuit of eradicating an infection, and antifa are a necessary bit of social disruption in the pursuit of, well, also eradicating an infection.

Some not-very-funny both sides lib comedian or a bunch of extremely online posters are not going to like antifa because, unlike almost any other actor or group in American politics (including Nazis, btw) they aren't interested in getting the media on their side. Leave sweet talking reporters to the Richard Spencers of the world - all it takes is a nice suit and recent haircut for mainstream media outlets to take people like him seriously. The media can't protect you from fascism, and constantly worrying about but how will this look in the media isn't actually helpful at all.

Not everything is a comment section battle. Not every political question is settled with upvotes and downvotes. Trevor Noah doesn't like how antifa cut cultural gatekeepers like him out of the public conversation. He (and people like him) want politics to happen in hashtags and televised debates and op ed columns.

They want the argument to happen in the space where pundits, comedians and journalists set the agenda. To them, political action that occurs outside of some ill-defined 'mainstream discourse' of party slogans and media self-succ is inherently threatening and should be opposed as vigorously as actual fascists.

Trevor Noah and people like him will always be concerned with how antifa looks and who is winning 'the argument' because it's a political method that sees people like him as useless.

Preach


I'm really not with all the concern trolling. Also worth noting that the media is more concerned with "if it bleeds, it leads". Yheyre only interested in the certain divisive aspects of Antifa. People are less interested in justice and more interested in order. Folks are reticent to speak on rhetorical and epistemic violence, but they care about people being rowdy and drawing a false equivalence. Yeah, this ain't some shit to debate and I'm gonna try and be less concerned with their opinions.


https://mobile.twitter.com/schradie/status/902293581502627840

 

[shawnbuddy]

There's a lot of testimony that you can easily find online about how Antifa prevented attacks and defended people against Nazis. The fact that someone was murdered doesn't provethat Antifa is ineffective; I'm sure glad they were able to prevent the violence that they did.

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

 

[shamanick]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

I don't care enough about your misinformed opinion to post links like someone directly above did, but keep living in your common-sense centrist bubble

 

[tomtom94]

On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK

No exaggeration in there at all, of course.

 

[PSqueak]

Discount Jon Stewart.

Vegan Jon Stewart?

 

[JustenP88]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

Woooie. The opposition is to blame for white supremacist terrorism. The takes get hotter by the second. I know it's hard to watch what's coming out of your mouth while you're self-fellating over your perceived moral superiority but you should probably check yourself.

 

[shawnbuddy]

I don't care enough about your misinformed opinion to post links like someone directly above did, but keep living in your common-sense centrist bubble

"I have evidence to the contrary that would blow you away, I just don't feel like posting it, guyz. Yeah, that's the ticket" is not very convincing, you know.

 

[stupei]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

You are seriously suggesting Antifa are somehow to blame for the death of Heather Heyer?

Seriously?

 

[jtb]

why do people always use stupid disease metaphors to discuss how Antifa creates political changes instead of explaining how Antifa creates political change?

 

[the_lizard]

Did anybody actually read the article? He said people *see them as* "vegan Isis," not that that's what they are. And he's right: by engaging in violence they aren't winning supporters, as cathartic as it is to see Neonazis clocked in the face.

Most antifa are effective; those in the tiny minority that act like bad guys, will end up adding fuel to Trump's shitty narrative.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

You are seriously suggesting Antifa are somehow to blame for the death of Heather Heyer?

Seriously?

Both sides tho..

 

[shawnbuddy]

Woooie. The opposition is to blame for white supremacist terrorism. The takes get hotter by the second.

Not to blame, but having an enemy willing to sink to their level escalates and emboldens their actions. Nazi ideology is based on violence. Providing them an enemy to physically fight is just what they want. A street fight is the only form of debate they can win.

 

[shamanick]

"I have evidence to the contrary that would blow you away, I just don't feel like posting it, guyz. Yeah, that's the ticket" is not very convincing, you know.

Like I said, the person directly above your post linked one instance. I don't give a shit if you are so incurious as not to do research for yourself.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

What...

Antifa didn't escalate Charlottesville....

And the testimonies are from people who were in the counter protest. You know people who were on the ground in Charlottesville

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

Now you're literally spewing Trump talking points. 'If only counter protesters didn't antagonize the good guy white supremacists, they wouldn't have beat and killed people.' What the fuck.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Like I said, the person directly above your post linked one instance. I don't give a shit if you are so incurious as not to do research for yourself.

"It's out there, I swear, I just hurt my thumb and can't type it today."

 

[geestack]

Oooh, online testimony. On the other hand we have a violent clash that tore apart a major city and killed a nice young woman, but OK. Got your online testimony.

They haven't prevented shit. They've escalated it.

so who drove the car that killed heather heyer in a terrorist attack again?

 

[Deepwater]

anybody who thinks "non violence" is the only path to social equity needs to read the book "This Non Violent Stuff'll Get You Killed"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/28/this-nonviolent-stuffll-get-you-killed/?utm_term=.38b58b1882c6

It's amazing how unread on the history of civil rights movements in this country many of you are. Just speaking straight ignorance in this thread.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I get the view point he has I just don't agree with it, like if the debate was anything else sure we should be more respectful. This is a group that exists to stand against nazi, I don't like I live in a world where Nazi is an ideology we should respect. Antifa is just a group of people against nazi, that's not even political as being a nazi is a choice. But I think the biggest story is ever since trump used Antifa as a scapegoat so many people have taken the bait. This is why fake news is a term, this is why people are more mad about outrage then about a murder, this is why some nazi are good people. Fuck America, fuck the fact this is where we have to draw the line but not the actual nazi.

 

[Muffin1611]

Face palm


You motherfuckers don't have any skin in the game, and don't know what Antifa is, clearly.

It is quite funny that Americans are suddenly discovering a group that existed for decades and are trying to make them seem like unquestionable heroes.

But please, maybe rather tell me what you think Antifa is exactly and how I'm wrong.

If Antifa was purely an antifascist movement counterprotesting Nazis and stopping them, even violently, sometimes, you'd be right. But they're not.

 

[shamanick]

"It's out there, I swear, I just hurt my thumb and can't type it today."

Got em

 

[Count Dookkake]

I wonder what YOU think of Do the Right Thing. He screamed "hate" when he threw that garbage can. What do you think the point of that was?

An opinion on the film isn't needed to ask a question based on the similarity between it and the scenario described by Noah. That said, it's a good movie.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Who knows. You are right that they don't care about optics, but whether or not they should care is debatable, because, like it or not, antifas don't just make themselves look bad in the public eye: they also taint, and alienate, moderate leftists in general.

Over here in Québec we had antifa violence against a white supremacist group, and instead of talking about that shitty white supremacist group, the media focused on the antifa violence -- which is exactly what that white supremacist group wanted. It played right into their hand. That's not a good thing for antifas nor for moderate leftist progress in general.

Sorry, no. These people are worms, they are extremely susceptible to intimidation and atomization through ass-kickings.

Antifa's calculation is as follows. Beating up fascists who are openly marching as fascists is a good tactic because it attacks fascism in the only way that has been proven to actually work.

The media and the public at large are useless in combating fascism, as has been seen in 20th century history but also in cases like Richard Spencer being called dapper and charming or apparently like when the Quebec media was easily led into a white nationalist narrative because they are idiots.

So if you beat the shit out of these people in the streets, you force them back into their sad grubby basements and cut off their political power. If you can make fascists feel like they aren't safe spreading their views in public, they're fucked, because the public is never going to actually be on their side - at worst, the media will spend all of its energy whining about antifa instead of fascists.

Fascists are never going to have a Gandhi moment where they convince people of the justice of their cause through nonviolent action. They're not going to convince people to turn to fascism by getting punched in the face by antifa kids on television. No one is going to flip on CNN and see some neonazi getting his nose broken and think "wow, the neonazis seem like the good guys here, I should probably look into this whole fascism thing."

So antifa takes the heat and get called far-left violent radicals and communist guerillas and whateverthefuck else. Trevor Noah whines about how people will see antifa as vegan ISIS. Liberals get to feel very clever that they recognize and condemn 'extremism' on both sides of the political spectrum. Meanwhile, the fascists are back to cowering in their basements, and the world is a better place. They haven't gained power through public sympathy and they haven't been allowed to gain power by coalescing into a legitimate public movement.

In other words, antifa is actually extremely good.

 

[JustenP88]

Not to blame, but having an enemy willing to sink to their level escalates and emboldens their actions. Nazi ideology is based on violence. Providing them an enemy to physically fight is just what they want. A street fight is the only form of debate they can win.

So, your implication is that an ideology based on violence will just disappear without causing damage as long as there is no counter element that is willing to respond to violence.

I really don't want to go down the slippery slope of "let's just suppress things that trigger white supremacists so they'll shut up."

 

[shawnbuddy]

so who drove the car that killed heather heyer in a terrorist attack again?

James Alex Fields. I can see where the lack of nuance in regards to Noah's comments comes in. He says people don't like Antifa violence, some of GAF is like "He said both sides are the same!" I say Antifa giving the Nazis a sparring partner has escalated their violence, some of GAF is like "He said Antifa killed Heather Heyer!" Both are patently absurd.