dakkumauji
Member
it would be quite a troll if junko calls him grandpa not cause he's her actual grandpa but cause she's just calling him an old man out of disrespect
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Danganronpa 3 The End of Hope's Peak Academy |OT| Nagito Komaeda's Wild Ride Part Two
- Thread starter MetroidPrimeRib
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Yeah, seriously, if Kodaka does this, I tip my hat to him. Because he sure did pull the wool over my eyes, if so. I didn't even see it as a possibility until I rewatched the first episode directly after
his accusation re: Tengan being the only one to have the resources to set everything up in the building last ep
that Munakata supervised the construction of the building
Like, I think anime fans are just so used to the general pattern of
reformation and redemption arcs for wrong-headed people saved by the power of friendship and love
Ludger Kresnik
Member
You mean between Future and Despair? That's just the difference in art style.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's kind of been what I've been thinking for a while.
The mastermind, or at the very least the person in question, has to be someone who wants Makoto to survive.
The Silver
Member
But the way they set up the game leaves way too much of it to chance if that was the goal. Well I guess they could have just believed in his ultimate luck, now who else has 100% complete faith in a nebulous talent like "luck".......
Me before the anime:
"oh yay I get to see more of my favourite Danganronpa characters!"
Me after Future episode 9 and Despair episode 10
"oh fuck me if there's a new killing game they might just get offed why did I say that".
Still waiting (and probably not going to get) the linkage on how they tied in IRL Chiaki and convert her ideas into AI Chiaki.
Some favourite moments from the Danganronpa 3 anime so far:
1. Ending of episode 1
2. Future arc episode 6's ending portion had me absolutely bouncing around in excitement with the cameos and stuff. Shit was hype (and then we get relatively nothing out of that=/)
Mondo butter was hilarious. Forgive me biker boy for snorting my dinner up my nose.
"oh yay I get to see more of my favourite Danganronpa characters!"
Me after Future episode 9 and Despair episode 10
"oh fuck me if there's a new killing game they might just get offed why did I say that".
Still waiting (and probably not going to get) the linkage on how they tied in IRL Chiaki and convert her ideas into AI Chiaki.
Some favourite moments from the Danganronpa 3 anime so far:
1. Ending of episode 1
2. Future arc episode 6's ending portion had me absolutely bouncing around in excitement with the cameos and stuff. Shit was hype (and then we get relatively nothing out of that=/)
Mondo butter was hilarious. Forgive me biker boy for snorting my dinner up my nose.
sackboy2197
Member
So, there's just two episodes left, right? I wonder how they'll manage to wrap everything up so quickly. I'm a bit worried.
Hopefully the next episode of despair will just be a future episode in disguise.
My only real question at this point is what was with Nagito on that island?
Ganzlinger
Member
Season 2 incoming
Ludger Kresnik
Member
please no
They'll wrap everything up in DanganRonpa V3! Please look forward to it.
Permanently A
Junior Member
I'm on the Munakata is the mastermind train now.
Ganzlinger
Member
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's exactly my belief! Tengan is evil, Tengan is doing something, but through luck, Tengan found himself in quite the unfortunate position: a part of the killing game. As I've noted, the only reason why a person would have "answering a question with a lie" is if doing so is standard procedure. I believe that in general, people's NGs fall into three categories:
1. Thematic. Basically, NGs that tie into things they are wont to do.
1a. Kyoko Kirigiri wants to protect Makoto, therefore his survival is her NG.
1b. Ruruka Ando must control others, therefore allowing people to leave is her NG.
1c. Sonosuke Izayoi loves to eat, therefore he cannot eat.
2. Ironic. NGs that contradict their nature.
2a. Seiko Kimura exists in the shadows of others, therefore Seiko cannot allow people in her shadow.
2b. While this is speculation, I'd reckon that Daisuke Bandai is against violence, therefore witnessing violence is his NG.
2c. The Great Gozu cannot be pinned, and his NG is the one thing that he cannot allow to happen.
3. Manipulative. NGs designed to limit characters' actions.
3a. Makoto Naegi cannot run in the hallway.
3b. Kyosuke Munakata cannot open doors.
3c. Juzo Sakakura's cannot punch (thereby limiting his usefulness).
3d. Aoi Asahina cannot be hit with a punch or a kick.
Therefore, Makoto can hold himself up in a room and Munakata cannot get him, but whenever he leaves a room, Munakata can easily kill him. OTOH, Juzo and Asahina's usefulness as protectors to Munakata and Makoto are limited. It's game balance, basically.
Using that, if we operate on the assumption that Tengan is a liar, he would fall under the first section. The only ones who don't comfortably fit in for me are Chisa Yukizome and Koichi Kizakura; Chisa because I don't know whether she wants Munakata to die or not, and Kizakura because while it feels like his was meant to put himself into a sacrificial position to save Kyoko - which would put him in the first section, as he prioritizes Kyoko's safety - but there are a lot of assumptions being made that he would eventually need to save her by grabbing her hand with his left hand. I assume they were going for theming, so I'll just chalk it up to bad writing lol.
tl;dr Tengan is evil, but he was not supposed to be in the killing game.
1. Thematic. Basically, NGs that tie into things they are wont to do.
1a. Kyoko Kirigiri wants to protect Makoto, therefore his survival is her NG.
1b. Ruruka Ando must control others, therefore allowing people to leave is her NG.
1c. Sonosuke Izayoi loves to eat, therefore he cannot eat.
2. Ironic. NGs that contradict their nature.
2a. Seiko Kimura exists in the shadows of others, therefore Seiko cannot allow people in her shadow.
2b. While this is speculation, I'd reckon that Daisuke Bandai is against violence, therefore witnessing violence is his NG.
2c. The Great Gozu cannot be pinned, and his NG is the one thing that he cannot allow to happen.
3. Manipulative. NGs designed to limit characters' actions.
3a. Makoto Naegi cannot run in the hallway.
3b. Kyosuke Munakata cannot open doors.
3c. Juzo Sakakura's cannot punch (thereby limiting his usefulness).
3d. Aoi Asahina cannot be hit with a punch or a kick.
Therefore, Makoto can hold himself up in a room and Munakata cannot get him, but whenever he leaves a room, Munakata can easily kill him. OTOH, Juzo and Asahina's usefulness as protectors to Munakata and Makoto are limited. It's game balance, basically.
Using that, if we operate on the assumption that Tengan is a liar, he would fall under the first section. The only ones who don't comfortably fit in for me are Chisa Yukizome and Koichi Kizakura; Chisa because I don't know whether she wants Munakata to die or not, and Kizakura because while it feels like his was meant to put himself into a sacrificial position to save Kyoko - which would put him in the first section, as he prioritizes Kyoko's safety - but there are a lot of assumptions being made that he would eventually need to save her by grabbing her hand with his left hand. I assume they were going for theming, so I'll just chalk it up to bad writing lol.
tl;dr Tengan is evil, but he was not supposed to be in the killing game.
It was Pepe Silvia
With that said, two more points:
Miaya was not a good person, and was surely one of the masterminds. That she was killed by Monaca was actually quite lucky (heh) for the players involved. I don't believe that Monaca had any reasonable access to the NGs, which means that Miaya must have, and must have built the robot in the first place. It also begs the question why the robot was designed to combat the Future Foundation, as it entered combat mode in reaction to Munakata's presence.
If Miaya is evil, that answers one question: if Izuru wasn't the one responsible for putting Alter Ego Junko into the NWP, who did? Miaya, that's who. She had the means and opportunity to do so. It fills in all the holes for me - Izuru would be the only person who would seek to create an Alter Ego Chiaki, and I don't think that he would risk her life with Alter Ego Junko. Using his Ultimate Analyst abilities, he was able to realize that Miaya was doing nefarious deeds.
If Miaya is evil, that answers one question: if Izuru wasn't the one responsible for putting Alter Ego Junko into the NWP, who did? Miaya, that's who. She had the means and opportunity to do so. It fills in all the holes for me - Izuru would be the only person who would seek to create an Alter Ego Chiaki, and I don't think that he would risk her life with Alter Ego Junko. Using his Ultimate Analyst abilities, he was able to realize that Miaya was doing nefarious deeds.
Speaking of Mechogahara, Ryota absolutely must either have an NG, and his NG has to be something that will not incriminate him. Why? Well, Munakata, upon receiving the computer, would come to one of two conclusions if it was any way else:
1. Mitarai is absent, and therefore is the mastermind
2. Mitarai's NG is incriminating, and therefore is the mastermind
The only other alternative is if Munakata is indeed the mastermind, and therefore knows/does not care about Mitarai's NG code either way.
1. Mitarai is absent, and therefore is the mastermind
2. Mitarai's NG is incriminating, and therefore is the mastermind
The only other alternative is if Munakata is indeed the mastermind, and therefore knows/does not care about Mitarai's NG code either way.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
This is BS
She should be like this
2.
3.
So true
1. I hope so.
2.
Maybe Tengan didn't write the message himself?! If your theory about Munakata is correct, maybe he wrote it.
Yeah I don't see why we haven't seen them yet. If they're dead then the reveal would lose its impact. Maybe they've been captured?
I'm now expecting this
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
This anime showed that Junko did say something true. Class 77 were chumps, and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
Ya know, since Juzo was in love with Munakata, using that analogy, Aoi is in love with Makoto?
I can ship it.
dakkumauji
Member
it just went up within the last hour
Sky Interloper
Member
It seems that it was finally released. I wonder if this is the timeframe we should expect for the remaining episodes?
ScherzoPrime
Member
You know, I spoiled myself coming into Episode 11 so I was expecting the worst, but honestly it pretty much clicked for me. At least at this point they've committed to the 'Despair is Junko arbitrarily imposing her will on you for the lulz'. I think it's dumb that no one knew about Enoshima's involvement until she revealed herself in Trial 6, but eh they've fully committed to the stupid on that front.
Tengan as the mastermind I could buy, who's goal was to get a SSJ Despair Munakata to survive the killing game and impose his Hopeless crusade on the world. But given how it was delivered it's almost assuredly not simply that.
At this point I do not know what could possibly happen in Episode 11 of Despair worth being told at this point, but frankly that's been most of the series so far anyway. Maybe have Junko adopt her Ryoko persona? A bit too late in the game to do that I think.
Tengan as the mastermind I could buy, who's goal was to get a SSJ Despair Munakata to survive the killing game and impose his Hopeless crusade on the world. But given how it was delivered it's almost assuredly not simply that.
At this point I do not know what could possibly happen in Episode 11 of Despair worth being told at this point, but frankly that's been most of the series so far anyway. Maybe have Junko adopt her Ryoko persona? A bit too late in the game to do that I think.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
luck
Sky Interloper
Member
I don't see anything more than a wink and a nudge to DR0, considering we only have 2 or 3 episodes time. But it's unsettling that Kodaka has lacked his weird twists up until this point, so I wonder if the whole Chisa/Tengan/Despair business is a red herring.
Possibly the only surprising thing would be to have an antagonist that disposes of the whole Hope/Despair dichotomy (something that fits with Izuru's bored outlook and possible actions, when I think about it).
Nagito has his Ultimate bullshit luck.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's very simple: he's Nagito. More directly, he definitely set up the killing game... before 2, anyway. He doesn't need to be there following it. Essentially, all he needs to do is set up a row of dominoes and wait until someone sets them off. We know that this is in his skillset - he set off an explosion, and said triggering required:
1. That Ruruka would need a similar drug
2. That he would need the drug in the first place
3. That he would fall and fail to remember which drug was which
4. That both Seiko and Ruruka didn't realize Ruruka had the wrong bottle
5. That he would run into Seiko, who owns the same kind of bag
6. That he would stumble, spilling one of the tainted drinks
7. That the dog would seek out Ruruka, Ando, and Izayoi
8. That this would cause Ruruka and Ando to fall on the trigger
Everything worked out perfectly to see Nagito's will enacted, and he avoided expulsion in the meantime. Even the punishment he received helped him, as he stumbled upon the firearm he had.
If Nagito isn't in Future, it feels like his arc just ends way too abruptly.
mugurumakensei
Member
Jozu, you began as a dick and died a bro. ;_;
Duh she likes him.
Luck.
That and he still hasn't seen his dream of two hopes duking it out for seeing the ultimate hope. It wouldn't be a reach in a series like this to say that Junko Enoshima plunging the world into despair happened because Nagito wanted to see what ultimate hope could look like.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Kazuo Tengan is the mastermind
Ok, so I think I get what Ryota's deal is now. Definitely think he's an unintentional accomplice.
If Tengan is the mastermind: My guess is that Ryota eventually either didn't return to Hope's Peak out of shame/fear for his life, and at some point before or after the Tragedy proper, was recruited to the FF by Tengan himself. Ryota then either told them about the brainwashing videos, or Tengan already knew about them. Either way, Tengan asks Ryota to give him the details of the techniques used for the brainwashing, possibly under the pretense of creating a video to undo the effects of the one Junko made. Ryota somehow realizes the deaths were all suicides via a similar brainwashing video. As for how he'd be able to tell:
1. He was always awake whenever the video played for someone. Probably not, as he would not have reacted to Kyoko's death the way he did if he'd been awake, unless he was just randomly not awake for the 4th time limit.
2. He sees the knife used for the suicides at some point, which may have been used for more brainwashed induced deaths.
3. Before Makoto's would-be trial, Tengan had Ryota join the meeting, saying that he planned to unveil an anti-brainwashing video, or that they've found a new despair video created with Ryota's techniques.
If Tengan is the mastermind: My guess is that Ryota eventually either didn't return to Hope's Peak out of shame/fear for his life, and at some point before or after the Tragedy proper, was recruited to the FF by Tengan himself. Ryota then either told them about the brainwashing videos, or Tengan already knew about them. Either way, Tengan asks Ryota to give him the details of the techniques used for the brainwashing, possibly under the pretense of creating a video to undo the effects of the one Junko made. Ryota somehow realizes the deaths were all suicides via a similar brainwashing video. As for how he'd be able to tell:
1. He was always awake whenever the video played for someone. Probably not, as he would not have reacted to Kyoko's death the way he did if he'd been awake, unless he was just randomly not awake for the 4th time limit.
2. He sees the knife used for the suicides at some point, which may have been used for more brainwashed induced deaths.
3. Before Makoto's would-be trial, Tengan had Ryota join the meeting, saying that he planned to unveil an anti-brainwashing video, or that they've found a new despair video created with Ryota's techniques.
Ganzlinger
Member
Naegi can have her anytime, she is fangirling over him since the beginning. lol And if the free time from DR1 is something to go, she is already eager to be his girlfriend.
Permanently A
Junior Member
hold the fucking phone
if the killing game is happening in a secret underwater base of the overseas hope's peak academy branch
does that mean this entire killing game was being planned BEFORE the tragedy even happened?
if the killing game is happening in a secret underwater base of the overseas hope's peak academy branch
does that mean this entire killing game was being planned BEFORE the tragedy even happened?
Snakethesniper
Member
Wait, if Kirigiri discovered the truth why she didn't say anything? She could have finished the game
Sure why not.
There are like 5 secret structures under Hope Academy at this point. Anything can happen if Despair is involved.
sackboy2197
Member
Yeah, I was wondering this as well. We thought it had something to do with her NG code, but that wasn't the case. The only explanation would be that she didn't trust everyone or something, but it still seems a bit silly.
That's kind of her MO. She could have saved everyone a ton of time at the class trials, too, but she opted to ask Naegi a bunch of leading questions every time instead. Despite being a super-duper detective, she never seems to go for the parlor scene.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
V3 isn't chained to the Hope's Peak story arc, nor does it only exist because someone high up needed SDR2's loose ends pointlessly tied because fans would eat that up. Those points alone fill me with confidence that V3 won't be as terrible.
I do however totally agree with this.
I'm not liking those multiple Monokumas. I don't need a constant comedy routine going on in the peanut gallery; one of them was enough for the contrast between grim and goofy before.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I think even they agree with you, hence why UDG ended up being mostly pointless.
I hope that maybe only one will appear in each chapter (plus Monokuma himself). Although they'd probably have all of them in the final chapter.
Permanently A
Junior Member
This is especially evident with the Twilight Syndrome case having absolutely 0 relevance to DR3's greater plot.
lazyproblems
Member
Kodaka actually wanted to write V3 as opposed to being pushed into it, so I have more confidence in it at this point.
Yeah, this is a pretty good example.
I wrote a huge thing in a Twitlonger after Despair 10 that captured my recent thoughts pretty well, but I wrote it pretty late at night so I'll just link it and briefly summarize it and prior thoughts instead of reposting in full.
Basically: I'm really bored by how all this turned out more than anything else.
"It was just brainwashing!" and the delighting in torturing Nanami before killing her aren't exactly revelatory plot twists that I'm excited to have seen happen. Future's been a mess because there's too many new characters, barely any of them are interesting on to top of that, and they add nothing to the established story. The fighting was a huge waste of time, and the expelled trio was even worse on top of that because "I can't trust you because you won't eat the things I make even though they'll literally kill you and you've told me this for years, and also I'm going to take advantage of you and bully you but it's your fault" was such bullshit. Kirigiri actually dying was pointless and added nothing but annoyance at the writer if it actually sticks - I had it spoiled before I caught up and doubted it staying the case then, and still sorta doubt it even now. Despair was actually good, and then it become all about the brainwashing and... really? That's it? That's how they turned? Ugh.
I still am looking forward to V3 - I think a lot of 3's problems are a result of having to end things here - but at the same time its problems could have been so easily avoided, so... dunno.
EDIT: Are we really using "NG Code" in here? C'mon guys. We can be better than that.
A Link to the Past
Banned
To be fair, the anime never made any attempt to portray Ruruka as reasonable. She was a villain, through-and-through. She was the Celeste/Mikan of the game, the mid-story antagonist.
The real problem is Izayoi. I think he's the worst character in the series. He does nothing, he has barely any interesting qualities - the only interesting thing he has said or done is say "dewicious" as an adult - he's basically a tool for Ruruka to manipulate. He's boring, and his "I still love you even though you killed me" thing isn't interesting. How neat would it have been if it turned out that he, since childhood, was her slave, and that he actually hated her? That could have been a cool twist. Perhaps her candy wore off, and Izayoi tried to kill her - making her still be a shitty person for having drugged him, but also being justified in defending herself.
The real problem is Izayoi. I think he's the worst character in the series. He does nothing, he has barely any interesting qualities - the only interesting thing he has said or done is say "dewicious" as an adult - he's basically a tool for Ruruka to manipulate. He's boring, and his "I still love you even though you killed me" thing isn't interesting. How neat would it have been if it turned out that he, since childhood, was her slave, and that he actually hated her? That could have been a cool twist. Perhaps her candy wore off, and Izayoi tried to kill her - making her still be a shitty person for having drugged him, but also being justified in defending herself.
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