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Danganronpa 3 The End of Hope's Peak Academy |OT| Nagito Komaeda's Wild Ride Part Two
- Thread starter MetroidPrimeRib
- Start date
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Man this brainwashing shit is weak. I always looked at the DR2 cast as a bunch of decent kids with fucked up pasts that got indoctrinated into a cult and led down a very dark path. The fact that they became evil of their own free will makes their eventual triumph over Junko all the more satisfying.
Junko's supposed to be this master manipulator but all she did was make everyone watch a video. Oh and if Chiaki's death made these characters turn evil then why didn't AI Chiaki's death do the same during DR2? Fuck this is dumb.
Junko's supposed to be this master manipulator but all she did was make everyone watch a video. Oh and if Chiaki's death made these characters turn evil then why didn't AI Chiaki's death do the same during DR2? Fuck this is dumb.
Was Chiaki's execution shown through a monitor? Although that brings up another issue...why didn't Junko just re-brainwash the characters in DR2 through the monitors set up on the island? At that point the Future Foundation wouldn't have known anything about the brainwashing video either.
The Silver
Member
I find it funny that Kyoko was made branch leader over Byakuya, I bet Kyoko doesn't even show up for any meetings cause she's somewhere molesting corpses and Byakuya is "acting director" 24/7.
Hours Left
Member
Byakuya is the one the likes to molest corpses.
The Silver
Member
woah Byakuya just had one curious moment, Kyoko is all up in there every chance she gets
Hours Left
Member
Byakuya broke out the S&M first time and didn't obey the safe word. He's a freak.
The Silver
Member
just an overzealous amateur, when Kyoko showed up she went straight for the balls like she'd done it hundreds of times, poor Byakuya had no idea.
Hours Left
Member
Toko's gonna be disappointed.
Apparently Fuyuhiko watching Chiaki die is enough to mentally break him, but watching and somewhat being responsible for the death of Peko, his best friend and the girl he loved, after just discovering the murder of his younger sister, he can shake off in about a week.
Its almost like "Chiaki has to die to brainwash them properly" is bullshit and they actually just wanted to give more screen time to a popular character at the expense of the writing. But that would be cynical of me.
thequickandthedead
Member
Why did Mukuro attack Monokuma in DR1 again? Wasn't she in on Junko's plan?
Her attacking Monokuma was part of the plan. Mukuro was told she'd be taken out of the game so she could go back to her role of helping from the shadows.
sackboy2197
Member
I believe it was part of the plan, but Junko decided to actually kill her. That's why Mukuro was so surprised to be stabbed.
Watching Chiaki die with all the brainwashing crap associated with the video feed broke him.
But why? Why does watching Chiaki die help? Why would the brainwashing not work otherwise? The only explanation I can think of is that it would push them into despair in order to make the brainwashing easier, but it couldn't be all that bad since the characters go through much worse in 2 and come out fighting.
Remember, that video was a live feed. There wasn't any editing going on, like with the student council killing video. Unless they want to start claiming that Junko can edit it on the fly or something.
blankempathy
Member
Kinda pointless for peko to sacrifice herself if he losses himself in the process. He knows it hence why he carries on.
The Silver
Member
I wonder why Junko didn't just infect everyone with the remember disease in DR2, I don't remember it being hinted at as some limited ability of Junko's.(though it would make the most sense as to why she didn't do it, so im probably just forgetting something)
She said she didn't really care if they suffered, she just wanted to put on a show within the confines of the rules so she could trap FF. Make them ultimate despair again and have them all put on an act as they kill each other and then they willingly let Junko take over the dead bodies.
what would that be too easy for Junko.
Also lying Nagito was hilarious.
She said she didn't really care if they suffered, she just wanted to put on a show within the confines of the rules so she could trap FF. Make them ultimate despair again and have them all put on an act as they kill each other and then they willingly let Junko take over the dead bodies.
what would that be too easy for Junko.
Also lying Nagito was hilarious.
Because IF is non-canon and Mukuro is a very different character sadly
Edit: wait she was like that in Zero as well right? Idk then.
R_thanatos
Member
You're forgetting ryota technology added in , and no this wasn't a normal live feed. If it was they would have been able to move around and try to help , they couldn't.
You've just seen how it worked on naegi monday , as someone who was prepared to resist and he just couldn't do it.
TheGeniusArcana
Member
It just occurred to me, but if Junko has magic despair brainwashing powers that she just can live edit onto any random video by DR3, then why the hell didn't she use it with the 78th killing game's broadcast? It's not like she could have perfected it for DR3 post DR1 because she's fucking dead.
I know the answer is just that it's a shitty retcon, but DR3 makes so many aspects of the rest of the series so nonsensical.
So you're saying she can edit on the fly then? Because considering Mitarai's work had him hand crafting every single frame. Whilst Junko can do the same thing with a live feed of an unpredictable human being?
I mean, sure, if she can then it all makes sense. But then that has the other issue of it just being incredibly stupid.
Naegi's was a pre-recorded video. It could be crafted in advance.
Edit: Ok, so, unrelated to my stubborn arguing, I just started reading IF since I never had before and the line "Mukuro was no masochist" is in it.
Like, I get that IF was always a non canon official fan fic but still, that just makes me smile. I am kind of annoyed since this Mukuro seems much more interesting than the one in 3, but Junko does need a lackey to do everything for her so I get why they made her the way she is in 3.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
That's all up in IF and DR0. Her portrayal in DR3 wasn't really what I was expecting as a whole. IF isn't canon but DR0 is, and it doesn't quite line up with either that or her own free time and school mode events in DR1.
To be kinda fair, AI Chiaki wasn't some untouchable goddess who the class blindly worshipped like DR3 Chiaki. She wasn't the center of the group or even the biggest presence in it. She was pretty much SDR2's version of Kyoko, only nicer and more helpful.
But in the end, it all comes down to SDR2 being competently written, unlike some things.
I think Danganronpa IF is pretty much the only reason anyone likes Mukuro, definetly worth a read, her character development despite not being Canon was pretty great.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Chiaki is probably the biggest retcon. I seriously doubt she was planned to be a real person in-universe, considering how in the game alludes to Chihiro being her creator, who we do know had hands in creating the whole program.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'm opting to just ignore the Despair side of DR3, even by DR standards it's beyond fucking stupid and more or less a trainwreck outside of some highlight moments.
Future is still pretty good at least.
Future is still pretty good at least.
I'm rolling with the idea that Chihiro still created the AI but then
Izuru works with Makoto and Alter Ego to switch it to Chiaki's personality for his whole Chiaki's Hope vs Junko's Despair thing. Chiaki's Wiki entry at least mentions Alter Ego made modifications
DrunkShogun
Member
To all those disappointed with this anime, don't forget this is the last hurrah. The next game should be free of any baggage from earlier games/shows. The biggest flaw personally was chiaki existing and junko having too much screen time. Best characters still Nagito and izuru.
Just finished reading IF. Yeah, Mukuro is much better in that, but I'm not sure they could have done much with her in 3 anyway so I'm not sure it matters.
Junko was much better in it though. Plus it solidifies just how stupid mind control is, as it further explores the idea that Junko loves plotting her own downfall. Complete mind control is just not her style as it eliminates any chance that she could lose. Hell, it's not even like they retconned that aspect of her since she kept Makoto alive in yesterday's episode specifically so something could potentially foil her plan.
Junko was much better in it though. Plus it solidifies just how stupid mind control is, as it further explores the idea that Junko loves plotting her own downfall. Complete mind control is just not her style as it eliminates any chance that she could lose. Hell, it's not even like they retconned that aspect of her since she kept Makoto alive in yesterday's episode specifically so something could potentially foil her plan.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
IF is Mukuro fanfiction. She's better in Zero.
RecRoulette
Member
It's really weird how aside from a couple of choice Nagito moments, the best parts of Despair were parts that helped flesh out the Future cast. Never saw that coming.
NeonZ
Member
If they saw everyone turning into Despairs in the simulation they'd probably just reset it or give up. I don't think they'd jump in. I don't think "putting on an act" would work since they'd be watching Junko infect them.
R_thanatos
Member
A bit of subliminal messages before the broadcast , coupled that the unpredictable chiaki was prefectly laid into a trap by junko that had ample time to prepare something to be shown afterwards.
Also subliminal messages CAN be broadcasted live.
i'm just arguing that it's what was shown, not that's it's stupid or not.
GoldandBlue
Member
The mind control shit just adds a bunch of new questions to the series of "Why didn't she just use it during all these other moments." Especially when all it takes is showing some video through monitors to accomplish it.
I really hope V3 completely ignores the mind control shit.
I really hope V3 completely ignores the mind control shit.
Permanently A
Junior Member
RecRoulette
Member
So many people dancing around the "Why is Mukuro so good" question, lmao. Interested in this too but no one has actually said why.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Why is she a good character? I guess because it was interesting to see the inner machinations of a person who has been completely molded by Junko. Her motivations for following Junko and her subsequent betrayal are logical in their own warped way. She decides to betray Junko because she figures that it will lead to greater Despair for Junko, so she's betraying her but at the same time acting in her interests.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Okay so
1. Chisa wanted Munakata to feel the most intense despair possible.
2. Tengan was given an NG that required that he answer questions without lying.
3. Munakata was set on the path of despair due to Tengan's answers.
I don't think Chisa is mastermind, and with this theory it couldn't reasonably be Tengan or Munakata. Thus, Chisa must be working with someone.
Nagito, it's Nagito. After all, he was one of the closest people to her in the story, so he would have had access to her post-3 and post-UDG.
1. Chisa wanted Munakata to feel the most intense despair possible.
2. Tengan was given an NG that required that he answer questions without lying.
3. Munakata was set on the path of despair due to Tengan's answers.
I don't think Chisa is mastermind, and with this theory it couldn't reasonably be Tengan or Munakata. Thus, Chisa must be working with someone.
Nagito, it's Nagito. After all, he was one of the closest people to her in the story, so he would have had access to her post-3 and post-UDG.
dakkumauji
Member
the game also mentions ai chiaki was surprised to find out she existed in the student records so it's not exactly a retcon if the possibility was there
considering its now izuru that created or modified or whatever ai chiaki it is likely he could have changed her to become less assertive into becoming the central point of the class cause we all saw how that worked out
She is what we hoped the DR2 cast were. Someone who isn't evil inherently, but warped by a devotion to Junko.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
mukuro smells bad
Sky Interloper
Member
I think plenty of it comes from her characterization in IF. She rationalizes there that her betrayal would bring an even greater despair for Junko, who pretty much cut ties with her at the end of her confrontation with her sister. Sadly, the rest of that story is fanfiction tier.
As for her character in Zero, it is much closer to what we see in DR3. The main difference here is that Junko is not present with her original personality, so DR0 lacks the infatuation that Mukuro shows for her sister (and the flanderization of DR3, but let's ignore that for a while). In Zero, she is following Junko's script and is acting like her, but when she is actually shown as Mukuro she acts aloof and with a lack of interest in her classmates.
I think many people were disappointed she acted like that in the Despair episodes, but she never got a scene outside Junko's sphere of influence. So it's not surprising she is acting like she told at the end of Zero, when talking with Ryoko about her sister.
Exactly why I'm so disappointed with the whole brainwashing affair. It was a shortcut to get to that point, as the anime lacked time and probably Kodaka didn't care enough about it as long as it didn't directly contradict canon.
The anime shouldn't have hyped the fall to despair of the 77th class at all. At the end, it was only a setup for Future while paying lip service to DR2.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
She's much grayer when compared to Junko's total black and white. While Junko was never not going to be a monster, as it took a personality overwrite and her memories getting erased on a daily basis for her to even resemble a non-terrible person, Mukuro could go either way. We see in DR0 and "Junko's" flavour events in DR1 that she's not as consumed by despair as you'd think she is. She's still a very broken person, since it comes with the territory of being Junko fucking Enoshima's next of kin, but the possibility is presented that she pretty much would've turned out fine (by DR standards) without Junko's influence. This is kinda what IF sets out to explore. It also gives her a lot of bombastic action scenes and people love those.
Also, she has a crush on Makoto and that's super kawaii desu
A Link to the Past
Banned
So does Kazuichi
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
He smells like oil and desperation, Mukuro just smells
I was definitely a lot better off knowing Chiaki wasn't a real person.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I don't mind that Chiaki was real, even though it resulted in her horrible, horrible death. Ultimately it's helping to make Izuru more interesting.
I wonder who smells creepier
I wonder who smells creepier
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Chiaki being a real person adds nothing but a cheap outlet for Despair to happen in hamfisted and bad ways.
Toko smells like stink bugs and Saionji never showers
Toko smells like stink bugs and Saionji never showers
A Link to the Past
Banned
The only problem is that Chiaki spends way too much time waving Hajime's flag
if you know what I mean
But no, if I had been involved, I would have insisted there be scenes to show Chiaki going through despair early on, only to be pulled out of it by Hajime and her classmates. Without this, there simply is not enough of a reason for her to, while dying, express sadness over not being with her class and Hajime ever again - because she felt like a nothing person without friends.
Oh yeah, Toko's probably the smelliest. She doesn't shower AND she has a pet stinkbug.
Also, what if Mukuro's scent is only apparent to Junko because of her Ultimate Analyst ability :0
if you know what I mean
But no, if I had been involved, I would have insisted there be scenes to show Chiaki going through despair early on, only to be pulled out of it by Hajime and her classmates. Without this, there simply is not enough of a reason for her to, while dying, express sadness over not being with her class and Hajime ever again - because she felt like a nothing person without friends.
Oh yeah, Toko's probably the smelliest. She doesn't shower AND she has a pet stinkbug.
Also, what if Mukuro's scent is only apparent to Junko because of her Ultimate Analyst ability :0
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