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[Jintor]

Hina did it because a) everyone who Sakura tried to meet with ended up trying to kill her (except Byakuya who didn't even show up) and b) Monokuma forged a suicide note. (and considering Hina's general smarts it was pretty impressive she thought of that whole thing quickly enough really, but that's besides the point)

Byakuya did it because he's a prick.

 

[Hours Left]

Hina did it because a) everyone who Sakura tried to meet with ended up trying to kill her (except Byakuya who didn't even show up) and b) Monokuma forged a suicide note. (and considering Hina's general smarts it was pretty impressive she thought of that whole thing quickly enough really, but that's besides the point)

Byakuya did it because he's a prick.

That reminds me that Hiro is also a huge jerk. His reasoning for trying to kill Sakura was ridiculous, and he shoulda been taken to task for it. Instead it was written off due to his "aw shucks" demeanor.

 

[Dresden]

Altering the scene was pretty fucked up, but Hiro goes out of his way to frame another student and that's far worse, I think.

 

[789shadow]

Altering the scene was pretty fucked up, but Hiro goes out of his way to frame another student and that's far worse, I think.

I can't agree. Togami desecrated a corpse for shits and giggles.

 

[Ken]

Even after finishing the game I don't really get Hiro's character (or why he's one of the survivors but oh well).

 

[Hours Left]

Even after finishing the game I don't really get Hiro's character (or why he's one of the survivors but oh well).

Because he's dumb. It actually benefits the mastermind to have morons around.

I imagine he was also supposed to act as the comedy relief to lighten the mood, but I don't think that was really successful. He's a waste of space.

 

[PKrockin]

Byakuya's definitely a prick and disgusting at the beginning, but his actions didn't almost result in the deaths of seven people. Hina almost got all of them killed, including the ones who believed in Sakura.

For the record, at least half the reason Byakuya fucked with the corpse was to increase his odds of winning the game, rather than just because he got a boner for crucified little girls.

I'm not saying Byakuya's a better person than Hina, but let's not forget what she did just because she has big boobs and the perfect personality for a waifu.

 

[789shadow]

My ideal group of survivors would have been:

Naegi of course
Kirigiri
Asahina
Ogami
Oowada
Fujisaki

 

[Ken]

Because he's dumb. It actually benefits the mastermind to have morons around.

I imagine he was also supposed to act as the comedy relief to lighten the mood, but I don't think that was really successful. He's a waste of space.

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel about him.

 

[Crash Station]

Altering the scene was pretty fucked up, but Hiro goes out of his way to frame another student and that's far worse, I think.

Hiro was just trying to save his own skin in his typical dumbassy way. Togami fucked with the corpse of one of the nicest characters in the game just so he could have fun with the trial. One is a panicky idiot while the other exhibits a total lack of empathy that never comes back to bite him in the ass.

I'm gonna go ahead and say Togami is worse.

 

[Hours Left]

Byakuya's definitely a prick and disgusting at the beginning, but his actions didn't almost result in the deaths of seven people. Hina almost got all of them killed, including the ones who believed in Sakura.

For the record, at least half the reason Byakuya fucked with the corpse was to increase his odds of winning the game, rather than just because he got a boner for crucified little girls.

And yet, despite that, I still understand Hina's motivation, while I'm completely perplexed and disgusted by Byakuya's.

 

[Dresden]

I can't agree. Togami desecrated a corpse for shits and giggles.

Hiro was just trying to save his own skin in his typical dumbassy way. Togami fucked with the corpse of one of the nicest characters in the game just so he could have fun with the trial. One is a panicky idiot while the other exhibits a total lack of empathy that never comes back to bite him in the ass.

I'm gonna go ahead and say Togami is worse.

Hiro was going to get everyone else in that group killed, zero fucks given until he was called out and that was due to the possibility of himself being killed. I'll take Togami over that.

 

[Ken]

Hiro was going to get everyone else in that group killed, zero fucks given until he was called out and that was due to the possibility of himself being killed. I'll take Togami over that.

He probably forgot about that during his scheming.

 

[PKrockin]

And yet, despite that, I still understand Hina's motivation, while I'm completely perplexed and disgusted by Byakuya's.

In a life-or-death game, between tying up an already dead body and leading the investigation astray (correcting it if necessary), and murdering everyone, the latter is a far worse crime. "Sorry, most of you didn't trust my friend who was a spy for the mastermind" isn't such a great excuse.

 

[dakkumauji]

But Togami and Hiro were terrible characters anyway.

Togami ruins a crime scene and gives no second thought over pretty much anyone else cause he's too busy having fun in a game. It's worse only because he doesn't suffer any repercussions for his actions besides evolving into a tsundere.

Hiro was useless. He couldn't even pass the blame decent enough since I'm sure Kirigiri would have noticed how fake the note was even if Toko didn't discover it first. No one probably even cares about what he tried to do probably because it was that bad of an attempt.

These guys definitely wouldn't have brought any hope to the world as survivors.

 

[Hours Left]

In a life-or-death game, between tying up an already dead body and leading the investigation astray (correcting it if necessary), and murdering everyone, the latter is a far worse crime. "Sorry, most of you didn't trust my friend who was a spy for the mastermind" isn't such a great excuse.

Hina was also killing herself with this act, she was punishing everyone she thought was guilty, including herself. (Plus, she was led astray by the fake suicide note.)

Byakuya desecrated a dead body to keep himself entertained while he was biding his time before his own eventual act of murder. He was still planning to "win the game" at that point, remember.

 

[Jintor]

Aoi's is about as understandable as Mondo's, in a sense; it's terrible and a shitty thing to do but it's not as outright incomprehensible as Byakuya's crap. It's an explosion of anger and given the way they build Aoi up beforehand (and the way the other characters contribute to it, which I think is probably at least part of why they all decide to gang up on Monokuma instead of be angry at Aoi at all) it's certainly not something that's forgotten.

 

[dakkumauji]

The thing with Aoi's act of almost killing everyone is that she learns from it and becomes a stronger character from it. She takes Sakura's sacrifice and becomes more determined.

What does Togami do after getting caught for it? Goes, I found my match for the esteemed Togami and keeps playing his own little game.

 

[Jintor]

it's kind of funny though. Even though Byakuya would undoubtedley knife Makoto the second he saw any potential gain in it, I still can't help but like him just a bit.

I do appreciate that his social link ends with "There's no fucking way I could ever be friends with that guy" though

 

[PKrockin]

Probably just gonna have to agree to disagree here. Byakuya's a dick, yes, but his tying up a corpse was basically harmless. Asahina planned to execute everyone, and had Makoto slipped up once it could have happened. Her circumstances aren't enough to justify it totally for me. Even Leon might have had a better excuse.

 

[Poltergust]

I find it kind of interesting that only 5 out of the 16 characters in this game are truly "innocent":

-Makoto
-Kyoko
-Chihiro
-Kiyotaka
-Sakura

Those are the only five characters in the game that didn't do anything that would be considered illegal. If you want to limit it to just killing/attempting to kill someone, then Byakuya is the only person who would be added to the above list:

-Sayaka: Attempted to kill Leon and conspired to pin the blame on Makoto
-Mukuro: Co-conspirator to the entire thing, so even if she didn't directly try to kill anyone she is still responsible for everyone's deaths
-Leon: Murdered Sayaka
-Mondo: Murdered Chihiro
-Hifumi: Murdered Kiyotaka
-Celeste: Conspired the murder of Kiyotaka, put the blame on Yasuhiro, and murdered Hifumi
-Byakuya: Altered the scene of a crime for the lulz; the only one on this list whose "crime" isn't related to killing someone
-Yasuhiro: Attempted to murder Sakura
-Toko: Hosts Genocide Jill, who, in addition to being a serial killer, attempted to murder Sakura; Toko herself is actually innocent, but that doesn't count for this
-Aoi: Attempted to have everybody executed by altering the scene of the crime
-Junko: Co-conspirator of the entire thing, murdered Mukuro, and executed Leon, Mondo, and Celeste

 

[Jintor]

Probably just gonna have to agree to disagree here. Byakuya's a dick, yes, but his tying up a corpse was basically harmless. Asahina planned to execute everyone, and had Makoto slipped up once it could have happened. Her circumstances aren't enough to justify it totally for me. Even Leon might have had a better excuse.

I think crimes of 'passion' where you're overcome by your own weakness - whether that be self-doubt or self-hatred like Mondo, or anger at others targeting your friends like Aoi - are just fundamentally easier to understand than something like Byakuya, who essentially primarily does things to make things 'interesting'.

 

[PKrockin]

I think crimes of 'passion' where you're overcome by your own weakness - whether that be self-doubt or self-hatred like Mondo, or anger at others targeting your friends like Aoi - are just fundamentally easier to understand than something like Byakuya, who essentially primarily does things to make things 'interesting'.

Understandable, yes, not necessarily "better" or easier to forgive. Someone who murders their spouse in a heated argument isn't better than a graffiti artist who tags the overpass for fun.

And again, it was to determine how much of a threat Makoto was.

 

[Jintor]

Oh, like you've never tried to kill all your friends by tampering with a crime scene because you thought they drove your best friend to suicide

 

[PKrockin]

You can't prove anything

 

[Basileus777]

Togami isn't meant to be a sympathetic character, and his reasoning for messing with the crime scene is rational and consistent with his characterization. I have no problems with that. Hina's actions are more perplexing, she essentially tries to commit murder on several completely innocent people and it was a calculated move, not a crime of passion.

 

[Feep]

Basically I was a huge douchebag, but as a bonus, y'all get to see

Spoiler

me be really fat in the next game

.

Edit: This is not really a spoiler, as you learn this within the first sixty seconds of SDR2, but edited out anyway.

 

[Jintor]

spoilerths!

 

[Steel]

I can't agree. Togami desecrated a corpse for shits and giggles.

At the same time, he didn't intend to get everyone in the school killed for his actions. Hiro wanted to frame someone else, get off scott free, and get everyone else executed for it.

Not that Byakua's a good person, but he really never did anything that harmed anyone.

 

[Dresden]

my pristine player experienceeeeee

 

[A Huge Battleship]

I find it kind of interesting that only 5 out of the 16 characters in this game are truly "innocent":

-Kiyotaka

The guy did unspeakably lewd things to Celeste and took photos to blackmail her with. If he's innocent then I'm a comfy couch.

 

[Jintor]

Edit: This is not really a spoiler, as you learn this within the first sixty seconds of SDR2, but edited out anyway.

A couple of us are striving to go into SDR2 blind. it's probably impossible but we're giving it a shot anyway!

I do agree Yasuhiro never gets called on his shit. He's basically a terrible person. Not even his social link redeems him significantly.

 

[LiK]

Ishimaru seems to be portrayed as strangely badass in official art, often shirtless or holding a sword... whereas he spends pretty much the entirety of the game either being a goof or crying.

but i mean he's my favorite character so i'm not complaining either way

he reminds me of Scivir the Wanderer in Demon's Souls. badass loading screen art but the real guy talks with a stutter and acts like a wimp.

 

[Out_Of_Ammo]

Oh god, the first thing I thought of while seeing Junko in that pose was JoJo. It's almost too perfect.

 

[2+2=5]

I find it kind of interesting that only 5 out of the 16 characters in this game are truly "innocent":

-Makoto
-Kyoko
-Chihiro
-Kiyotaka
-Sakura

Those are the only five characters in the game that didn't do anything that would be considered illegal. If you want to limit it to just killing/attempting to kill someone, then Byakuya is the only person who would be added to the above list:

-Sayaka: Attempted to kill Leon and conspired to pin the blame on Makoto
-Mukuro: Co-conspirator to the entire thing, so even if she didn't directly try to kill anyone she is still responsible for everyone's deaths
-Leon: Murdered Sayaka
-Mondo: Murdered Chihiro
-Hifumi: Murdered Kiyotaka
-Celeste: Conspired the murder of Kiyotaka, put the blame on Yasuhiro, and murdered Hifumi
-Byakuya: Altered the scene of a crime for the lulz; the only one on this list whose "crime" isn't related to killing someone
-Yasuhiro: Attempted to murder Sakura
-Toko: Hosts Genocide Jill, who, in addition to being a serial killer, attempted to murder Sakura; Toko herself is actually innocent, but that doesn't count for this
-Aoi: Attempted to have everybody executed by altering the scene of the crime
-Junko: Co-conspirator of the entire thing, murdered Mukuro, and executed Leon, Mondo, and Celeste

Kyoko lost her innocence the moment she chose to do nothing to prevent the execution of Makoto imo, in a certain sense she is not that different from Junko, she was ready to sacrifice people for her purpose.

 

[ZeroX03]

Byakuya's actions specifically lead to the reveal of Genocide Jill though. That does count for something, as she's somewhat helpful throughout the game (the separate memory thing) and knowing you've got a psychopath in the mix - who's got the bigger kill count, her or Junko? - is information you probably want to have.

On the other hand, bringing out Genocide Jill also gave Byakuya an alibi/bodyguard for the rest of the game, so that's just another selfish thing in his favor.

 

[Nervous Sausage]

Just finished this game today. The sequel is now one of my most anticipated games of the year. Besides the Zero Escape games which I enjoyed just as much, are there any other similar games of this quality? Or are these pretty much the best examples of the genre.

 

[Tizoc]

He desperately needed an Ace Attorney breakdown that was basically this:

AA4

Best to make that a link in case someone hasn't played that game yet.

 

[2+2=5]

I see that there are many fanarts where Mukuro saves Makoto, am i missing something?

 

[Jintor]

Kyoko lost her innocence the moment she chose to do nothing to prevent the execution of Makoto imo, in a certain sense she is not that different from Junko, she was ready to sacrifice people for her purpose.

Yeah, except junko's 'purpose' was 'everyone will despair forever for no real good reason but lol whatever' and kyoko's was 'let's expose the true mastermind and see what the fuck's going on here'

It's a kill or be killed class trial, baby!

 

[A Huge Battleship]

I see that there are many fanarts where Mukuro saves Makoto, am i missing something?

In the IF story

Spoiler

Mukuro has a pretty obvious thing for Makoto.

 

[2+2=5]

Yeah, except junko's 'purpose' was 'everyone will despair forever for no real good reason but lol whatever' and kyoko's was 'let's expose the true mastermind and see what the fuck's going on here'

It's a kill or be killed class trial, baby!

Can a different goal justify the sacrifice of other people? Imo not at all, and even if the the goal is so important to sacrifice other people you can't consider yourself innocent anyway.

In the IF story

Spoiler

Mukuro has a pretty obvious thing for Makoto.

Interesting! :O

 

[Jintor]

when comparing getting people killed trying to rescue people versus getting people killed trying to break their minds, i wouldn't consider that a 'not so different' kind of thing. But like I said, I think a survival situation is truly different (though the maths doesn't quite balance because they need to get the 'right' culprit, and I doubt Kyoko thought Makoto really did it, but she KNEW that SHE didn't do it, so in the situation she was in she only had one option)

 

[2+2=5]

when comparing getting people killed trying to rescue people versus getting people killed trying to break their minds, i wouldn't consider that a 'not so different' kind of thing. But like I said, I think a survival situation is truly different (though the maths doesn't quite balance because they need to get the 'right' culprit, and I doubt Kyoko thought Makoto really did it, but she KNEW that SHE didn't do it, so in the situation she was in she only had one option)

Kyoko is smart, she knew it was a trap, she knew that Makoto didn't do it and even worse she knew that Makoto was protecting her and despite all she chose to sacrifice Makoto, no matter if it was to defeat the mastermind or for simple survival, she is not innocent.

 

[Jintor]

I'm not arguing that she's not 'innocent', but rather, that it's not a 'not so different' situation like you said.

 

[Dresden]

Kyoko isn't a saint, but comparing her actions to those of Junko in any shape or form is way over the top.

In the IF story

Spoiler

Mukuro has a pretty obvious thing for Makoto.

What a waste. Another great evil perpetrated by

Spoiler

Junko.

 

[Jintor]

Kyoko is batman

 

[2+2=5]

I'm not arguing that she's not 'innocent', but rather, that it's not a 'not so different' situation like you said.

Kyoko isn't a saint, but comparing her actions to those of Junko in any shape or form is way over the top.

The situation was clearly different, but the final result was not.
I mean in war there are enemies that try to kill you, if you want to survive you have to kill them and despite the danger you try to save your companions, but Junko to reach her goal didn't hesitate to kill her sister and Kyoko to reach her goal didn't hesitate to sacrifice Makoto.
She is the ultimate detective, she knew it was a trap, if she really cared for Makoto she would have tried harder to save him and point to the culprit.
Makoto on the other hand was probably stupid, he could have asked to Monokuma for a video showing him making the murder, but i guess that Monokuma would have killed everyone because they voted the wrong killer.

 

[Jintor]

But Junko's goal was to break everybody's minds! Perhaps you could say, 'well, they'd both sacrifice others to achieve their goals', but when one's goal is simply "drive everybody mad" and the other goal is "Survive, and reveal the plot where we all die", I think they cease being comparable in badness. Besides, Kyoko fully acknowledged that she fucked up, went down after Makoto, and gambled with her life and Makoto's to get Monokuma to agree to the final battle. And I don't think you can say "Well, she could've tried harder" against her - a, she's shackled because there was literally no other possible suspect for the crime at the time since it was a rigged trial, and secondly she was rigged by game design concerns to make Makoto do everything.

Also, her 'sacrifice' relied on Makoto sacrificing himself.

 

[Dresden]

I mean, the big difference even in their examples of sacrifice is that one was unnecessary while the other was forced. Kyoko would save Makoto if she could. Junko kills Mukuro because lulz.