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[Thagomizer]

D.

The only problem with Bioshock's story and how it was handled was that it should have ended at Andrew Ryan, cut to ending cinematic, as that was the climax of the game and it immediately runs out of steam after that point. Not actually having a choice in the main plot of Bioshock was an intentional commentary on video game story telling, where, IMO, the satire isn't really Dark Soul's aim.

Spoiler

I, for one, also don't really see Kaathe as being good, as the powers he grants you are pretty malevolent, he never really makes much of a case that things will actually get better if you kill Gwyn and the Flame, and I think there's an unstated subtext that his powers drive people insane and evil- there are some strong parallels, for one, between the Four Kings and the Nazgul which I doubt is unintentional. There's also nothing to really say that he isn't lying through his teeth, either, and I have no doubt he's glossing over some of the negatives that becoming the Dark Lord will bring.

I think that the two choices are more "Gray and Grey" as opposed to a "Good" and "bad" choice.

 

[cnizzle06]

Where should I go after the 4 kings?

 

[ixix]

Spoiler

Quelana specifically states that the flame of chaos the Witch of Izalith created "molded her mother and her sisters into grotesque creatures." Quelaag and the Fair Lady became half spider creatures, while the Witch of Izalith became the Bed of Chaos. This is why the Lord Soul comes from the Bed of Chaos. BTW killing the Fair Lady isn't required to finish Quelana's quest, only killing the Bed of Chaos.

All dialog relating to the Chaos Servants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-YDVUJplOY&hd=1

I realize this is a pedantic point, but

Spoiler

a statement that they were "moulded [into] deformed creatures" and "have been in anguish since" isn't the same thing as a statement that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos, specifically. The game states that there is a connection between them repeatedly, it implies a lot, and the interpretation that the Witch of Izalith being the Bed of Chaos seems the most reasonable, but at no point does it outright state that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos.

That link is really handy, though. Thanks for that.

 

[Zzoram]

Think From will ever release an official lore summary?

 

[NBtoaster]

Whatever happened to that patch?

 

[Zzoram]

Whatever happened to that patch?

they're still making it i guess

 

[cj_iwakura]

Think From will ever release an official lore summary?

Nope. They've said that they want players to make their own decisions.

 

[Mortrialus]

The only problem with Bioshock's story and how it was handled was that it should have ended at Andrew Ryan, cut to ending cinematic, as that was the climax of the game and it immediately runs out of steam after that point. Not actually having a choice in the main plot of Bioshock was an intentional commentary on video game story telling, where, IMO, the satire isn't really Dark Soul's aim.

Spoiler

I, for one, also don't really see Kaathe as being good, as the powers he grants you are pretty malevolent, he never really makes much of a case that things will actually get better if you kill Gwyn and the Flame, and I think there's an unstated subtext that his powers drive people insane and evil- there are some strong parallels, for one, between the Four Kings and the Nazgul which I doubt is unintentional. There's also nothing to really say that he isn't lying through his teeth, either, and I have no doubt he's glossing over some of the negatives that becoming the Dark Lord will bring.

I think that the two choices are more "Gray and Grey" as opposed to a "Good" and "bad" choice.

Spoiler

Given that your character rules the world in the Dark Lord ending, I think it's safe to say that whether the Age of Darkness is a good thing is literally up to you.

I realize this is a pedantic point, but

Spoiler

a statement that they were "moulded [into] deformed creatures" and "have been in anguish since" isn't the same thing as a statement that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos, specifically. The game states that there is a connection between them repeatedly, it implies a lot, and the interpretation that the Witch of Izalith being the Bed of Chaos seems the most reasonable, but at no point does it outright state that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos.

That link is really handy, though. Thanks for that.

Spoiler

I disagree. I think the combination of Quelana referring to the flame of chaos molding her mother and sisters into grotesque creatures, and the Lord Soul dropping from Bed of Chaos is pretty damn conclusive.

 

[corrosivefrost]

I realize this is a pedantic point, but

Spoiler

a statement that they were "moulded [into] deformed creatures" and "have been in anguish since" isn't the same thing as a statement that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos, specifically. The game states that there is a connection between them repeatedly, it implies a lot, and the interpretation that the Witch of Izalith being the Bed of Chaos seems the most reasonable, but at no point does it outright state that the Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos.

That link is really handy, though. Thanks for that.

I beg to differ.

Spoiler

Quelana explictly says they were engulfed by chaos and asks you to kill them and end their suffering. Quelaag is obvious, because her boss title bar says "Chaos Witch Quelaag". However, it is only AFTER you kill Bed of Chaos that Quelana thanks you for doing what she asks of you in killing her family members that have been twisted by chaos, gives you the fire tempest spell, and leaves. Since she asked you to kill her mother and sister(s) and only thanks you and rewards you once Bed of Chaos is slain and you return to her with the soul, the only real conclusion here is that Bed of Chaos was what was formerly Quelana's mother and therefore was what the Witch of Izalith had become after being engulfed by chaos.


Edit: Also good point about the bed of chaos dropping a lord soul, as per Morticulus's statement; since the Witch of Izalith was one of the lords who took on the dragons with Nito/Seath/Gwyn and she drops that soul, I'd say it furthers what I said above.

 

[Phat Michael]

ah! Magic Halberd +10 got! also got logan's catalyst as well. My battlemage build is coming along really well now...only demon ruins and lost izalith to go i guess..

 

[soldat7]

Hate that you can be invaded while resting at a bonfire. The really need to do a better job crippling the invader. Does indicting actually do anything?

 

[Mortrialus]

Apparently a new Dark Souls trailer was released the 25th and I completely missed it until today.

I love these "The player is getting his ass rocked." trailers, but I don't think it compares to the two Silent Comedy trailers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=he7AS_h5QlA

 

[corrosivefrost]

Hate that you can be invaded while resting at a bonfire. The really need to do a better job crippling the invader. Does indicting actually do anything?

Puts them in book of guilty, which allows darkmoon covenant to invade at will.

 

[Zzoram]

Hate that you can be invaded while resting at a bonfire. The really need to do a better job crippling the invader. Does indicting actually do anything?

Indicting makes it so Blue Phantoms are more likely to invade them for revenge.

 

[gamelova]

I'm trying to find a better sword in the game or upgrade a sword that would be better than the Drake Sword +3 that I have. I am at Anor Londo, so is there a better sword that I can have at this point in the game?

 

[Zzoram]

Apparently a new Dark Souls trailer was released the 25th and I completely missed it until today.

I love these "The player is getting his ass rocked." trailers, but I don't think it compares to the two Silent Comedy trailers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=he7AS_h5QlA

what silent comedy trailers?

I want to see creative trolling with the Chameleon spell.

 

[Mortrialus]

what silent comedy trailers?

I want to see creative trolling with the Chameleon spell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93LFz_j5fQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNpLhv21BS0

Silent Comedy, the band that made the music in these trailers.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Apparently a new Dark Souls trailer was released the 25th and I completely missed it until today.

I love these "The player is getting his ass rocked." trailers, but I don't think it compares to the two Silent Comedy trailers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=he7AS_h5QlA

You'd think they'd edit out the awesome artbook that doesn't exist by now.

 

[ixix]

Spoiler

I disagree. I think the combination of Quelana referring to the flame of chaos molding her mother and sisters into grotesque creatures, and the Lord Soul dropping from Bed of Chaos is pretty damn conclusive.

As I've said, I agree with you.

Spoiler

It is pretty damn conclusive. But I was compiling a list of facts the game explicitly states, and it never flat-out says "The Witch of Izalith is the Bed of Chaos," so I didn't include it.

For what it's worth, my interpretation is

Spoiler

that the Witch of Izalith is the living tree that swats you down holes, and is being controlled like a puppet by the bug under the floor. I think this interpretation fits with the theme of the Witch being consumed by the power she sought to control, and with Quelana's statement that she was misguided but not evil. It also says that the Bed of Chaos is the birthplace of demons, which clearly wasn't what the Witch of Izalith intended when she set out to clone the First Flame, which I think implies that she's not really in control anymore.

 

[shahkur]

So I've rang the two bells and done

Spoiler

Sen's Fortress and the gargoyle gave me a lift to Anor Londo. I made it to the 1st bonfire then to a yellow light which wont allow me to pass.

Where do I go? Someone please.

 

[Yoshichan]

You'd think they'd edit out the awesome artbook that doesn't exist by now.

o.o? I got that art book (PAL)

 

[DangerousDave]

I'm trying to find a better sword in the game or upgrade a sword that would be better than the Drake Sword +3 that I have. I am at Anor Londo, so is there a better sword that I can have at this point in the game?

Lightning spear from the mimic of Sen's make double of damage than regular Drake Sword, even if the numbers don't say it, because of the lightning damage instead of physical. I had to backstab the snakes three times to kill them, and with the spear was a backstab and a R2 hit.

 

[Phat Michael]

I'm trying to find a better sword in the game or upgrade a sword that would be better than the Drake Sword +3 that I have. I am at Anor Londo, so is there a better sword that I can have at this point in the game?

queelaags fury sword?

 

[Ra1den]

So I've rang the two bells and done

Spoiler

Sen's Fortress and the gargoyle gave me a lift to Anor Londo. I made it to the 1st bonfire then to a yellow light which wont allow me to pass.

Where do I go? Someone please.

Go back to the bonfire, then once at the bonfire, exit and walk in a straight line. You'll see where to go.

 

[astroturfing]

Do you redrop your sign frequently?
As a lot of people give up on this game or manage to finish it once and stop playing, I'm sure the opportunities to get summoned drop. :\

yeah i redrop it. sometimes frequently, sometimes i leave it for a long time and go do something else.

 

[corrosivefrost]

I'm trying to find a better sword in the game or upgrade a sword that would be better than the Drake Sword +3 that I have. I am at Anor Londo, so is there a better sword that I can have at this point in the game?

You want a sword?
Well...

You've got a couple options, providing you don't just want to use the lightning spear (for less initial investment)... all options require making it to the Anor Londo blacksmith (easily done since you're already there).

(1) If you have the soul of Sif and can wield a greatsword, you can create one of the greatswords of Artorias
(2) You can use the soul of Quelaag to make Quelaag's Fury Sword.
(3) Other than this, you're basically relegated to forging something; lightning is a very good choice for all around, though it's not quite as powerful as fire. You can forge your weapon of choice to +10 then have the blacksmith change to lightning and dump whatever titantine chunks you may have to pump it up to +3 or +4.

 

[MuddyDonut]

So I've rang the two bells and done

Spoiler

Sen's Fortress and the gargoyle gave me a lift to Anor Londo. I made it to the 1st bonfire then to a yellow light which wont allow me to pass.

Where do I go? Someone please.

Walk straight from the bonfire >.>

 

[cj_iwakura]

o.o? I got that art book (PAL)

Bolded for emphasis. The US LE comes with a horrible thin book that was bound like a children's book.

 

[vilmer_]

Upgraded my fire Greataxe to +10 and wowzers at the damage. Time to do some invading

 

[cj_iwakura]

Can you get red eye stones anywhere but from Kaathe?

 

[shahkur]

Walk where in a straight line? The lift? I've been down there and beaten the gargoyle.

 

[Dresden]

Upgraded my fire Greataxe to +10 and wowzers at the damage. Time to do some invading

/avoid one slow clunky swing with no range

/backstab

 

[Speevy]

Upgraded my fire Greataxe to +10 and wowzers at the damage. Time to do some invading

+10 Fire Greataxe? Does that do more damage than lightning greataxe +5?

 

[shahkur]

Ah, LOL nevermind, I found it. Thanks guys.

 

[InfiniDragon]

The only problem with Bioshock's story and how it was handled was that it should have ended at Andrew Ryan, cut to ending cinematic, as that was the climax of the game and it immediately runs out of steam after that point. Not actually having a choice in the main plot of Bioshock was an intentional commentary on video game story telling, where, IMO, the satire isn't really Dark Soul's aim.

Spoiler

I, for one, also don't really see Kaathe as being good, as the powers he grants you are pretty malevolent, he never really makes much of a case that things will actually get better if you kill Gwyn and the Flame, and I think there's an unstated subtext that his powers drive people insane and evil- there are some strong parallels, for one, between the Four Kings and the Nazgul which I doubt is unintentional. There's also nothing to really say that he isn't lying through his teeth, either, and I have no doubt he's glossing over some of the negatives that becoming the Dark Lord will bring.

I think that the two choices are more "Gray and Grey" as opposed to a "Good" and "bad" choice.

Spoiler

Even though this game does kinda have the shades of grey thing going on, Kaathe seems way more "good" than Gwyn to me because at least he's up front with everything. He never states that being the Dark Lord will fix the Undead (although it fixes you, according to him), but he doesn't lie about it unlike the gods in the game. He mostly just wanted the truth of the world to be known and the laws of nature to be upheld which the gods upended. The whole Age of Fire prophecy was BS. Gwyn made up the "legend" about the Chosen Undead and curing the Darksign (Linking the fire doesn't do squat for the Undead apparently) just to get someone like your character to go and link the fire because basically, he didn't want to be a part of it anymore but needed a new sucker to be cinder for the flame so he could go to the other realm with the rest of the gods, but humans still wouldn't rule. And then for good measure, it's highly implied that he's the one that had you imprisoned to make absolutely sure you'd never get your full powers as the Dark Lord because he knew your character was a direct descendant of the Furmitive Pygmy.

The power of the Dark Soul (aka the Dark Hand) can be used for evil, but it's something that Kaathe himself didn't necessarily condone if we go by what he says and the Darkwraith descriptions. The Darkwraiths went all evil and ganker on everybody and Kaathe's response was to kick them the hell out. Furthermore, the Four Kings lived in the Abyss for a long time perfectly harmless and sane according to the game using Kaathe's dark powers...yet as soon as they came into contact with Gwyn's flame, they went nuts. The "darkness" doesn't make people inherently evil because all humans are linked to it.

So yeah, unless some more deliberate lore comes out debunking the stuff the characters and the items say, I think I'll stick with Kaathe. XD

 

[corrosivefrost]

Can you get red eye stones anywhere but from Kaathe?

I don't think so -- only in a few chests scattered throughout the world.

 

[gamelova]

I might make the queelag fury sword. The Greatsword of Artorias requires high intelligence and faith stats which I don't have. Thanks for the help guys

 

[vilmer_]

/avoid one slow clunky swing with no range

/backstab

Not if I get a backstab in first

+10 Fire Greataxe? Does that do more damage than lightning greataxe +5?

I'm actually not sure on the lightning Greataxe, perhaps I will try upgrading one. Right now I'm doing 1500+ backstabs on the Black Knights in Kiln.

 

[corrosivefrost]

+10 Fire Greataxe? Does that do more damage than lightning greataxe +5?

In theory, yes. Unless something has fire resistance.

lightning 385/392 (phys/lightning)
fire 392/392 (phys/fire)

 

[Yoshichan]

Bolded for emphasis. The US LE comes with a horrible thin book that was bound like a children's book.

Yeah That's truly a pity... but don't forget, that Youtube video was demonstrating the PAL-version!

 

[Zimbardo]

In theory, yes. Unless something has fire resistance.

lightning 385/392 (phys/lightning)
fire 392/392 (phys/fire)

wasn't the common thought tho that its harder and less common for things/players to have high lightning resists?

myself, i'm not really sure, but it seems that way ...and i've heard others say it. dunno if its true.

 

[x3r0123]

omg that 3 hit combo parry

 

[DigitalDevil]

Okay wtf. I got to the top of sen's fortress, beat the boss, then

Spoiler

Examined the ring of light. Now I've been whisked away to anor londo and I'm not prepared for this area yet. I need more arrows etc.. I made it to the bonfire but how the hell do I get back?

 

[Phat Michael]

i have no idea how to get to dark sun gwyndolin. i killed tits, also have dark moon seance on ....i dont see a doorway anywhere. what am i missing?

 

[Ill Saint]

Okay wtf. I got to the top of sen's fortress, beat the boss, then

Spoiler

Examined the ring of light. Now I've been whisked away to anor londo and I'm not prepared for this area yet. I need more arrows etc.. I made it to the bonfire but how the hell do I get back?

Turn around, talk to gargy.

 

[Ill Saint]

i have no idea how to get to dark sun gwyndolin. i killed tits, also have dark moon seance on ....i dont see a doorway anywhere. what am i missing?

Correct building, just gotta go a couple levels lower. Use the lift contraption. There's a bonfire there too.

 

[Hawkian]

omg that 3 hit combo parry

what?

 

[K' Dash]

Right now I'm helping people with Seath and I can see the statues of cursed players appearing and dissapearing while I wait to be summoned

 

[Ghost23]

Is it worth changing my +10 spear into the horn of the butterfly or whatever it's called?

 

[Dresden]

Is it worth changing my +10 spear into the horn of the butterfly or whatever it's called?

Eh... it's not that good. It's pure magic damage, but the damage is so low - at 50 int it only goes up to about 300 overall attack power. Just make it for the achievement.