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Dark Souls |OT5| Definitely better than the sequel

A

AlexBasch

Member
Well, it's decided, I'm going for a 40 Faith and then spread the rest of the levels towards VIT with my character in NG+.

Really want that Solaire lightning. I already beat two bosses so that should decrease the requirements of the Sunlight altar or something, no?
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
KieferCrimson said:
Well, it's decided, I'm going for a 40 Faith and then spread the rest of the levels towards VIT with my character in NG+.

Really want that Solaire lightning. I already beat two bosses so that should decrease the requirements of the Sunlight altar or something, no?
Click to expand...

You need to help other people beat bosses. If you summon Solaire for gargoyles, then you can have 5 Sunlight Medals by the time you reach Ornstein and Smough. You can also get
Gwyn's Sunlight Spear by offering his soul at the Altar in NG+.
 
NinjaBoiX

NinjaBoiX

Member
Had 10 humanity in stock last night for farming purposes. I now feel set materials wise for a NG+.

Anyway, got killed in the Royal wood, the fell off a ledge going back. 10 humanity and around 40,000 souls down the drain!

I'm going to kill Kalameet then Gwyn tonight, maybe have another quick go of the twin sanctuary guardians.
 
A

AlexBasch

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
You need to help other people beat bosses. If you summon Solaire for gargoyles, then you can have 5 Sunlight Medals by the time you reach Ornstein and Smough. You can also get
Gwyn's Sunlight Spear by offering his soul at the Altar in NG+.
Click to expand...
Yup, I'm a bit overpowered at the moment, but I managed to get summoned with the Taurus Demon, Queelag and the Bell Gargoyles.

Think I'll go and help with the Capra Demon now. :p
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Yaboosh said:
I just beat Ceaseless Discharge and the Four Kings and I still haven't found the Valley of the Drakes. Weird.
Click to expand...
You know how you had to drain the water to open the way to the Four Kings? The giant gate it drained out is an entrance to the Valley of the Drakes.

tbh, you're not missing much; it's basically a small transit area.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Orochinagis said:
Hollowing is gradual overtime so you have to consume humanity to stay sane Leeroy ran out of humanity, he was forced to invaded you to gain your humanity because the red orbs grants you humanity if you defeat the host world. He went desesperate and faced Nito but died.

You can only see his corpse if you defeat him on the invasion so he was alive in that time lapse.
Click to expand...

Nordicus said:
Except you forget this

Long ago, the Way of the White produced its
first Undead, a paladin in golden armor.
With the legendary treasures Grant and
Sanctus, Leeroy set out for Lordran,
Land of the Gods, in the first Undead
mission of the Way of White.

So Rhea and her undead bodyguards go into the Catacombs much after Leeroy, and on top of that there's Petrus, who has been sitting in Firelink Shrine waiting for his company's arrival for who knows how long.

So if Leeroy succeeded, 1) the Paladin Set the item description is a lie, 2) Way of the White higher ups are completely lying in the 3 cleric's faces and they're completely buying it, because Leeroy managed to get the rite of kindling.

Granted, the latter is somewhat plausible.
Click to expand...

I don't buy that Leeroy tried to kill Nito. That was not his mission and he gains nothing from it. The fact that his corpse is located inside Nito's area and not outside, where there's numerous heroes corpses (with "Soul of a Hero" drops), makes his situation similar to
Jeremiah and Priscilla
, pointing that they seem to be working together. Also, isn't there an item that says that Pinwheel stole the Rite of Kindling from Nito?

Like someone has said, time is not linear in Lordran. That's why you
get invaded by Kirk or
can summon Leeroy, for instance.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
kionedrik said:
Like someone has said, time is not linear in Lordran. That's why you
get invaded by Kirk or
can summon Leeroy, for instance.
Click to expand...
But by saying that the protagonist got there before Leeroy, you're also saying that Laaroy was flung into the future in the timeline for his entire visit to the catacombs, rather than arrive there in the past and stay in your time for a few fleeting moments. The fact that the enchantment on the Sanctus shield that's on his corpse has long faded is also an argument for Leeroy arriving there before you. Once dead, this spacetime-warping phenomenon doesn't seem to work

And furthermore I don't get how Kirk is in any way an argument for Leeroy's survival. It doesn't say anything one way or another. In fact,
Marvelous Chester
invades you and loses, yet does not die. Leeroy? You find his stuff in a corner on a corpse once you've whacked him
 
R

Red Liquorice

Member
CarbonatedFalcon said:
So...I've cleared the Depths. Do I have to go into Blighttown from that entrance or are there alternate areas I can progress to right now?

There's the back entrance through the Valley of Drakes from Firelink, but these big club dudes are pretty tough besides all the poison shit of instant death. And I have no clue where a Blighttown bonfire would be.

Halp.
Click to expand...
There are 3 of those giants guarding the entrance and exit so it doesn't make much of a difference. You can just run past them they're big, slow and dumb. But they're easy to parry and backstab, if you took on Havel you can take on one of these.

I would recommend going in the through the Depths first just so you 'get' the level design. It's not difficult and the bonfire is actually really close to the entrance. If you go in the back way, it's still worth doing the whole area everything you missed as the top half of the area is filled with great loot
Power Within, Shadow Set, Eagle Shield, Iaito
- This is what I do actually as I leave Depths open for invasions, I make my way backwards through the whole level for the loot and then homebone back to the swamp bonfire.

For dealing with poison and toxic: Get the spider shield, it blocks 100% poison and toxic. Bandits start with it, and there are two lootable ones, one in the Depths the other in Valley of Drakes. Poison is trivial, it drains so slow it's easier just to deal with it until you know you're not going back in the swamp.

It's worth taking a trip to Darkroot Garden before you go and farm the trees for moss have a few of both regular purple and blooming purple, and you should be fine. There is some moss as loot down there any way and the toxic blowdart guys drop it when they die - and they don't respawn so if you get toxic'd by them, take them out asap - even if you die they won't be coming back! :)
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Nordicus said:
But by saying that the protagonist got there before Leeroy, you're also saying that Laaroy was flung into the future in the timeline for his entire visit to the catacombs, rather than arrive there in the past and stay in your time for a few fleeting moments. The fact that the enchantment on the Sanctus shield that's on his corpse has long faded is also an argument for Leeroy arriving there before you. Once dead, this spacetime-warping phenomenon doesn't seem to work

And furthermore I don't get how Kirk is in any way an argument for Leeroy's survival. It doesn't say anything one way or another. In fact,
Marvelous Chester
invades you and loses, yet does not die. Leeroy? You find his stuff in a corner on a corpse once you've whacked him
Click to expand...

I think that Solaire explains there are multiple planes of existance and each one has its own timeline. You can link planes by using the soapstones, invasions, etc (it's a cool explanation of the multiplayer component on an otherwise SP experience).
The player exists in one plane, Leeroy in another. Our plane and Leeroy's cross on 2 occasions, Catacombs and TotG. The way I understand it, when you summon him you will get a version of himself before he was able to recover the RoK, hence why he's compeled to help you kill Pinwheel. Later, for reasons I don't completly understand, you get invaded by an older version of him trying to protect Nito. That version was still alive in his own timeline and plane, hence why he was able to invade, but in our world he is dead and laid to rest near Nito.

I compared him to Kirk because they are both dead in our world and timeline, but because of the way time and space work, we can get invaded and/or summon NPCs that are long dead.

Also Chester is not a good comparisson because you fight an invading spirit and defeating it does not mean killing the original form in his original world (if you invade and lose, you'll return to your world still human).
 
N

Nordicus

Member
kionedrik said:
That version was still alive in his own timeline and plane, hence why he was able to invade, but in our world he is dead and laid to rest near Nito.

I compared him to Kirk because they are both dead in our world and timeline, but because of the way time and space work, we can get invaded and/or summon NPCs that are long dead.
Click to expand...
Yet there is a connection between finding the people's bodies and whether they'll ever be able to be summoned or get invaded by again. Whether it's Solaire, Lautrec, Chester, Leeroy, Tarkus, or whoever, their activity with you seizes the moment you kill them in their own realm, or find their physical corpses.

Do you not find that an odd coincidence?

kionedrik said:
Also Chester is not a good comparisson because you fight an invading spirit and defeating it does not mean killing the original form in his original world (if you invade and lose, you'll return to your world still human).
Click to expand...
But it is, in a "Triangle inequality" sort of way. Chester invades, loses, and survives. Nothing happens to him, and he even remembers attacking you. Leeroy invades, loses, and that triggers whether you find his corpse

Ergo, while not conclusive, the result implies that in Leeroy's case, his death, both in this world and another, is completely in your hands. in this case Chester does, at the very least, set the maximum odds for Leeroys survival. Miminum is probably Tarkus
 
C

Chitown B

Member
last night I was human in the Depths and never got invaded by Kirk. So that's 2x I haven't.

blew through that area and killed Gaping Dragon without getting hit once. On to Blightown...... again

the plan: backdoor blight town (get Power Within), Kill chaos demon, pay 30 humanities to open shortcut to Izalith (and get Chaos Storm), buy all pyro from Quelaag (maybe kill her for the final one?), Sen's, Anor Londo (Painted world, get 10 ears, get the Darkmoon Blade), get LV and go to 4 Kings to Kaathe for DW covenant achieve, Catacombs > ToG > save Rhea > kill Petrus > buy her 3 miracles. Go to Izalith and get Chaos Fire Whip (forgot to get it before).

Then it's just a matter of teaming up and getting a few last weapons and I should 1000G it.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Nordicus said:
Do you not find that an odd coincidence?
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying and, honestly, I never thought about it that way. It is possible that we are living some sort of Schrödinger's cat paradigm where you can cross planes and timelines as long as there's a possibility that reality exists.

Nordicus said:
But it is, in a "Triangle inequality" sort of way. Chester invades, loses, and survives. Nothing happens to him, and he even remembers attacking you. Leeroy invades, loses, and that triggers whether you find his corpse
Click to expand...

I cannot agree with you on this one, because all solid proof we have points the other way. Chester invades and loses yet is still alive in his world. You invade and lose yet you remain alive in your world. Why would the rules be different for Leeroy? We can argue that the failed invasion triggers something that will eventualy lead to his demise, hence why you are able to find his body, but saying you kill the "real" him at the same time as his illusion is just not true.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
kionedrik said:
I cannot agree with you on this one, because all solid proof we have points the other way. Chester invades and loses yet is still alive in his world. You invade and lose yet you remain alive in your world. Why would the rules be different for Leeroy? We can argue that the failed invasion triggers something that will eventualy lead to his demise, hence why you are able to find his body, but saying you kill the "real" him at the same time as his illusion is just not true.
Click to expand...

We know that even if you're undead and by definition can't die, there's still a chance that you can be defeated forever once you've gone off the deep end, I point to the various hollowed NPCs that die and never return.

AND you do kill the original when you kill the phantom. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you lose an invasion, do you not leave a bloodstain with your souls? Do you not start at a bonfire? All signs lead to that you in fact die when you lose an invasion, and nothing rules out that this specific death might be the one you never return from.
 
M

Mistel

Banned
Chitown B said:
Already started NG+
hence the DOH! Doesn't really matter anyway, I'll never change my Giant's Armor.
Click to expand...
That's a shame it's a good looking outfit
Dark_souls_paladin.jpg

I usually wear that with differing variations of legs and arms armor like black iron and brass. And you need the lordvessel to access the tunnel where he invades you I think so you can't just go there.
 
K

kris.

Banned
so i started out with a bandit and am basically playing a tank right now. full elite knight armor (with the gargoyle helm tho) with a black knight sword. i am having the hardest fucking time with Quelaag (this is my first playthrough btw). i've tried summoning mad whatever her name is to help and i almost beat her once but then got hit with that fucking AoE attack and died instantly. now i'm out of humanity and almost out of poison cure herb thingy to even get to her. gaf, wat do :( this game is frustrating
 
C

Chitown B

Member
If you can stay to the side of Queelag you won't get hit unless she does her AOE - which happens when she pauses and the naked lady part goes limp - so back off then.
 
C

Chitown B

Member
just read this on TA:

"Solaire: Unfortunately, he is bugged. You can only complete his quest line on a brand new game. On other playthroughs, he cannot give you the White Soapstone, and as such you cannot progress his story."

That sucks.

edit: wait, now I read that he's not bugged anymore.
 
K

kris.

Banned
see, i tried that and was doing really well, but then when she started her AoE, i rolled back right into lava that i didn't realize was behind me. i died, became discouraged, and quit the game.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
kris. said:
so i started out with a bandit and am basically playing a tank right now. full elite knight armor (with the gargoyle helm tho) with a black knight sword. i am having the hardest fucking time with Quelaag (this is my first playthrough btw). i've tried summoning mad whatever her name is to help and i almost beat her once but then got hit with that fucking AoE attack and died instantly. now i'm out of humanity and almost out of poison cure herb thingy to even get to her. gaf, wat do :( this game is frustrating
Click to expand...
Chitown B said:
If you can stay to the side of Queelag you won't get hit unless she does her AOE - which happens when she pauses and the naked lady part goes limp - so back off then.
Click to expand...
Yeah, what Chitown said. I prefer to stay near the spider's neck, because Quelaag will try to use her swords attacks then and constantly miss.

I'm afraid no NPC summon will help you survive through this if you're having trouble while wielding a Black Knight Sword, it's such a great weapon for this early in the game.

And the Aoe, she never does it as a starter, she always does it like this: "I just finished my attack, is this player still hitting me? Yes? Then Aoe!"

Because you're not light enough to fastroll away, you want to grab a shield with good fire resistance and use that to block the Aoe as you walk backwards from her, hopefully not into lava. I always have the Crystal Shield that Dohmnall in the Depths sells at this point in the game, but it costs 4k.

If you can't do that, then try to only attack her while she's attacking and then back off in case she follows it up with aoe. If you keep kiting her and not stay in the same spot, the lava becomes less of an issue because it'll be at the other end of arena
 
K

kris.

Banned
Nordicus said:
Yeah, what Chitown said. I prefer to stay near the spider's neck, because Quelaag will try to use her swords attacks then and constantly miss.

I'm afraid no NPC summon will help you survive through this if you're having trouble while wielding a Black Knight Sword, it's such a great weapon for this early in the game.

And the Aoe, she never does it as a starter, she always does it like this: "I just finished my attack, is this player still hitting me? Yes? Then Aoe!"

Because you're not light enough to fastroll away, you want to grab a shield with good fire resistance and use that to block the Aoe as you walk backwards from her, hopefully not into lava. I always have the Crystal Shield that Dohmnall in the Depths sells at this point in the game, but it costs 4k.

If you can't do that, then try to only attack her while she's attacking and then back off in case she follows it up with aoe. If you keep kiting her and not stay in the same spot, the lava becomes less of an issue because it'll be at the other end of arena
Click to expand...

hrm, alright. i'm using the spider shield which has the best fire resistance of any shield i have thus far. i'll try again tonight and see what happens. i guess i just need to be more attentive to what she's doing and not necessarily the spider.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
Yes. When she lowers her human torso as if to hug the spider head, that's when the Aoe is coming

Edit: Oh right, also equipping armor with good fire resist might help as well, even if the normal physical defense might be crappy. Her sword deals a little bit of physical damage, but a lot of it is fire.
 
M

Mistel

Banned
Nordicus said:
Yes, but crystal shield is alright too since it has 80% resist. Slightly better stability too
Click to expand...
I suppose 5 points of fire resistance is a good sacrifice for 5 more stability. I never used any of the crystal stuff is it any good? I mean the whole can't be repaired coupled with it low durability put me off, didn't seem like a fair trade for a damage boost.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
Stormtrooper said:
I suppose 5 points of fire resistance is a good sacrifice for 5 more stability. I never used any of the crystal stuff is it any good? I mean the whole can't be repaired coupled with it low durability put me off, didn't seem like a fair trade for a damage boost.
Click to expand...
The crystal shield that Dohmnall sells, actually has normal shield durability, which is 10x more than self-made crystal shields have. It'll last you a whole playthrough

I can't say much about the efficiency of the crystal upgrade path, but I suppose the Crystal Halberd you find as loot, plus Pine Resin, makes it rather easy to cut Seath's tail, largely regardless of build, since you only need 11 Str and 12 dex to 2-hand it
 
M

Mistel

Banned
Nordicus said:
The crystal shield that Dohmnall sells, actually has normal shield durability, which is 10x more than self-made crystal shields have. It'll last you a whole playthrough

I can't say much about the efficiency of the crystal upgrade path, but I suppose the Crystal Halberd you find as loot, plus Pine Resin, makes it rather easy to cut Seath's tail, largely regardless of build, since you only need 8 Str and 12 dex to 2-hand it
Click to expand...
That's, neat I never brought one as I've got my grass crest shield and I two hand all the time so my shield lives on my back.

The upgrade path looks interesting I mean at plus 5 crystal weapon is stronger than a max normal one and retains stat scaling. But durability for example with the claymore drops to 20, which leaves it probably as a boss focused weapon only, that wouldn't last long.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Nordicus said:
We know that even if you're undead and by definition can't die, there's still a chance that you can be defeated forever once you've gone off the deep end, I point to the various hollowed NPCs that die and never return.

AND you do kill the original when you kill the phantom. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you lose an invasion, do you not leave a bloodstain with your souls? Do you not start at a bonfire? All signs lead to that you in fact die when you lose an invasion, and nothing rules out that this specific death might be the one you never return from.
Click to expand...

It seems we've reached the "It's a game" loophole. When you lose an invasion you leave a bloodstain and some souls and 1 humanity, yet when you awake in your world you can retrieve all your souls and humanity (you lose nothing).

Hopefully DS2 gives us some insight on this matter.


Red Liquorice said:
Dark Souls |OT6| Limp naked lady parts..
Click to expand...

Stormtrooper said:
Nothing wrong with a bit of thrusting action...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but... Dark Souls |OT| Nothing wrong with a bit of thrusting action is much better
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
kionedrik said:
I think that Solaire explains there are multiple planes of existance and each one has its own timeline. You can link planes by using the soapstones, invasions, etc (it's a cool explanation of the multiplayer component on an otherwise SP experience).
The player exists in one plane, Leeroy in another. Our plane and Leeroy's cross on 2 occasions, Catacombs and TotG. The way I understand it, when you summon him you will get a version of himself before he was able to recover the RoK, hence why he's compeled to help you kill Pinwheel. Later, for reasons I don't completly understand, you get invaded by an older version of him trying to protect Nito. That version was still alive in his own timeline and plane, hence why he was able to invade, but in our world he is dead and laid to rest near Nito.

I compared him to Kirk because they are both dead in our world and timeline, but because of the way time and space work, we can get invaded and/or summon NPCs that are long dead.

Also Chester is not a good comparisson because you fight an invading spirit and defeating it does not mean killing the original form in his original world (if you invade and lose, you'll return to your world still human).
Click to expand...

Yeah its pretty much the time flux is really srcrewed there for gameplay mechanics but still Leeroy really died there, its not complicated.

Red invaders always wants your humanity, if he was defending nito he could spawn as a gravelord not a hostile invader, Kirk invades you for humanity for the fairy lady but he was a darkwraith before.

You dont fight their spirits you actually summon them or invade you alive.

Nordicus said:
But it is, in a "Triangle inequality" sort of way. Chester invades, loses, and survives. Nothing happens to him, and he even remembers attacking you. Leeroy invades, loses, and that triggers whether you find his corpse

Ergo, while not conclusive, the result implies that in Leeroy's case, his death, both in this world and another, is completely in your hands. in this case Chester does, at the very least, set the maximum odds for Leeroys survival. Miminum is probably Tarkus
Click to expand...

Tarkus
died by falling from the roof
, he was the one who made that big hole on glass building.

There is a huge difference about chester and leeroy, Chester just wants to kill you to get your humanity and sell it to another player. He is a merchant of humanity if you didnt noticed it.

Not all undead are hollow, they can die. The chosen undead cant die because his/her fate is becoming hollow thats why he is the chosen undead, one of many.
 
N

Nordicus

Member
Orochinagis said:
Tarkus
died by falling from the roof
, he was the one who made that big hole on glass building.
Click to expand...
Yes, and the more it is his own fault, the less one can argue that his death is because of space-distortion shenanigans, and thus could be alive in other reality.
 
M

Mistel

Banned
If you're not worried about dodging her just wear full stone armor or if you like to be a bit more nimble try the wanderer set. Both of the are accessible at that stage of the game and both have a nice fire resistance.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
Continuing from my last post...


I wandered around Lost Izalith for a bit. Mostly because it's a horribly boring level with a problem where everything looks so similar I kept turning around. Accidentally found my way into the boss room. I managed to take out Bed of Chaos after about four tries (I knew the trick to it due to videos/gifs-a-plenty spoiling it for me. I have to say, I don't feel too bad about it, though, because I just wanted to leave Lost Izalith.

I decided to tie up all of my loose ends by killing Gwyndolin, buying all of the remaining pyromancies/magics, fully upgrade my shield, and what not.

Made my way down into the First Kiln and thought it looked pretty cool. The black knights are definitely not nearly the problem they once were, and I managed to collect a black knight sword, great sword, axe, shields, and tons of titanites! I'll look forward to if I decide to revisit the game for those. : )

Got down to Gwyn, and he quite surprised me with how aggressive he was. I was killed on my first two attempts rather quickly, but I remembered that most aggressive enemies aren't too bad if you get up close. That did the trick, and I barely managed to survive a flurry of attacks to take him out.

After all I've read/heard about the two options of the ending, I decided to not link the fires. If the age of dark is inevitable, I'd rather have some kind of sway/power to hopefully influence things for the better, if possible. Linking the fire just removes me from the equation, and the age of dark is going to happen eventually anyways! So yeah, collected all those souls and walked back to my creepy, bowing, snakey army.



Final Thoughts

Dark Souls was something I was mostly interested in because of the initial changes that I had heard about coming from Demon's Souls. I picked Demon's Souls up towards the release of Dark, but it was a tough nut to crack. The changes like the estus and the fires made the game sound much more my pace, but I put it down rather quickly in the beginning.

I came back to it with a better appreciation for it, and I'm glad I gave it that second chance. There are certainly flaws to the game, but it's such a pleasure (hah) to play. The rewarding sense of exploration and accomplishment for your determination are above and beyond most any other game I can think of. The world and story are so vague, but the bits and pieces you can find through the items and the environment really scratched an itch.

All in all, I loved my time with this game. I'm looking forward to that DS2 PC release with great anticipation.
 
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