Jason Frost
Member
How can Superman really beat Doctor Manhattan?
I mean, Doctor Manhattan is like a god now in this new DC universe and he can probably zap Superman anytime he wants?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DC Comics announces "Doomsday Clock", starring Superman and some blue guy
- Thread starter ElNarez
- Start date
LordRaptor
Member
Remember when Alan Moore would just casually drop cool one off ideas that didn't need long form explanations and recurring character roles, because it all added to the overall mythos, like a green lantern who has no sense of colour and whose oath is based on sounds, or a green lantern thats a sentient planet, or a daxamite green lantern?
Geoff Johns remembers, but its his toybox now and you can't just leave someones cool idea as a standalone, you have to integrate it into canon and flesh it out with multiple appearances, expanded back story and tie ins to events.
Geoff Johns remembers, but its his toybox now and you can't just leave someones cool idea as a standalone, you have to integrate it into canon and flesh it out with multiple appearances, expanded back story and tie ins to events.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Kick him in the balls.
A manga with a straight storyline and a never changing author for over 10 years?
Yes great counterexample to bring here
You know I'm also a comic nut but he is right.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
If this comes down to Superman physically throwing hands with Manhattan and that's the end of it all, then Johns failed. This needs to be more about a battle of will and ideology than just "You fucked up our timeline, bruh. Catch these hands."
As funny as it would be to hear Superman say that, that's not what DC needs to be about.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Johns is not a perfect writer by any means but he usually has a great understanding of most DC characters so I doubt this will end with a punching match. Actually, since Manhattan wasn't really a bad guy in Watchmen, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up having a somewhat noble motive here. Maybe he's fucking with the timeline in order to prepare the heroes for something else, like the Anti-Monitor or another evil cosmic entity, who knows...
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Comic book companies are so sleazy. I feel bad for the people that bought the Flash/Batman crossover.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Yeah, those poor bastards were tricked into buying a good comic. Damn you, DC!
Andodalf
Banned
I feel like a fool for buying the beautiful lenticular covers which I adore!
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I feel bad for buying a new DC comic which I haven't done in ages that I enjoyed.
Those poor bastards, buying a well-regarded comic
Geoff Johns: Marn
Alan Moore: FChamp
It's not DC's fault that Moore refused to write "2 Watches The Watchmen."
Brianimaniac
Banned
Ugh, making me read garbage by the fan-favorite, Eisner-nominated writer behind The Vision and Sheriff of Babylon. What scumbags!
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Nah they were tricked into buying a prologue for the real event so that DC could extract twice the money from them that they would have normally paid
Except the comics were really good.
I'm not refuting it's a prologue, but being tricked into buying a really good comic? That's a bad thing now?
Brianimaniac
Banned
The Button is a good story. What aren't you getting about that? People read those issues and liked them. And you're saying it's a bad thing that they have more good issues to enjoy?
Stop doubling down on this and just admit that your original assertion was dumb and that you made a mistake because you had no idea what you were talking about. Everyone can see that this is the case whether you own up to it or not, and you just make yourself look worse by denying it.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Nobody who bought it ever thought that the Watchmen storyline would be resolved in a 4 issue Flash / Batman crossover. And it's pretty great.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Yes, sleazy marketing techniques can be divorced from quality.
I'm sure when DC originally decided market the books like this they had no idea how good or bad the actual comics would be. I doubt they cared either.
Spuck-uk
Banned
In the good timeline we avoided somehow, the movie adaptation with Patrick Stewart as Spider was made.
And?
The comic story is really good. People are raving about it. So it's win win.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Of course. People did think that the Watchmen event was going to happen much later and this wasn't going to essentially serve as a prologue though. I remember when this was announced and I said they were going to announce the real event as soon as this one ended people telling me that wasn't going to happen.
That's not what people are saying.
Dude is saying it's sleazy marketing. No one is disagreeing per se, just saying the comic is really good anyway. But dude keeps doubling down and saying quality is irrelevant, which is asinine
Brianimaniac
Banned
Debating someone isn't asserting that the person you're debating isn't allowed say what they're saying. If someone says you're wrong, defend your position if you feel you're right. A discussion forum isn't where you go to throw ideas out and have them go unchallenged. That's what a diary is for.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Not really, I just don't want to get into an argument about the actual quality of the comic book because I know that would go nowhere.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Hellblazer, From Hell, Whatever hapenned to the man of tomorrow, The Killing Joke and, yes, Watchmen all dunk on his green lantern and star wars stuff.
Man, just reading back his list, he's just produced an absurd amount of legendary runs.
LordRaptor
Member
I dropped DC 6 months or so into nu52, but prior to that were some solid books like Birds of Prey, Blue Beetle, Vigilante, and LOSH, although most of the line had taken a quality beating due to event fatigue / timeskips / reboots before the reboot / rush to conclude storylines before Flashpoint
Spuck-uk
Banned
I mean, Manhattan is so outside of human morality and concerns by the end of the book that it's always going to be awkward trying to wedge him back in there.
LordRaptor
Member
No one ever brings up MiracleMan anymore
I'm assuming people are only counting his DC work. And forgot about Swamp Thing.
Because Top 10 mofos.
I like it. Seems plausible too
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
There's a difference between critiquing a comic and shitposting about how DC and the entire comic industry is terrible and the manga overlords will save us.
All DC threads are like that here. It gets a rise out of some of these clowns.
Don't even know why people continue making DC-related threads.
Only a truly enlightened individual could realize that comics and manga are equally trash.
NullPointer
Member
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I don't know how to feel about this. The Button started out well but two issues later and I'm kinda sitting here feeling like I was misled. It doesn't feel like they're unraveling a mystery at all.
I guess we'll see.
I guess we'll see.
It's it obvious? So people can continue making shit posts like
"I'm glad I quit read comics" or "I'm glad I quit reading D.C. After new52"
"This is why I don't read comics"
"Leave Alan Moore alone"
"Wow, DC ran out of ideas again"
I really like the way DC has handled the main narrative fire Rebirth. Every few months there's a short book that advances the plot and beyond that writers can tell whatever stories they want without getting sucked into since mega-event. It's kind of like filler/lore episodes in an older TV show.
Also, Manhattan is absolutely going to be the mysterious hand that shows up in every Crisis event.
Also, Manhattan is absolutely going to be the mysterious hand that shows up in every Crisis event.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
This has to be a metatextual story or it will (deservedly) fall on its face.
Superman is the representation of hope, inspiration, and optimism in superheroics. Manhattan is the representation of despair, futility, and control.
The event doesn't seem particularly sacrilegious because of what the two franchises represent. It's a story worth exploring and representative of a conversation that comics have been avoiding en masse.
Superman is the representation of hope, inspiration, and optimism in superheroics. Manhattan is the representation of despair, futility, and control.
The event doesn't seem particularly sacrilegious because of what the two franchises represent. It's a story worth exploring and representative of a conversation that comics have been avoiding en masse.
badcrumble
Member
I think the fundamental problem here is that Johns is totally correct about storytelling being the most important priority for comics but that that also renders him wholly incapable of doing metatext well whatsoever. The metatextual conversation is absolutely worth having while the story itself is a crummy distraction from the otherwise excellent Rebirth; if he focuses on his own greatest strengths it's an uphill battle, and if he focuses on the strengths of the concept it's a losing game altogether. I appreciate that he's trying to put forth a robust argument in favor of everything he believes in, but he's better off letting good stories be their own best argument.
