broncobuster
Banned
No exaggeration, there's been more outcry for dark hair Barry Allen than Perry, Aquaman, Slipknot, or Deadshot changes...it's actually nice to see.
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DC Extended Universe |OT2| A League of xX-=DaMaGeD=-Xx Gentlemen
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No exaggeration, there's been more outcry for dark hair Barry Allen than Perry, Aquaman, Slipknot, or Deadshot changes...it's actually nice to see.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
The biggest stupid outcry I recall was Michael B. Jordan as the torch
Major Gripex
Member
I'm more annoyed about Lois Lane's hair than Barry's. And I love blond Barry!
GringoSuave89
Banned
Half in the Bag review of Suicide Squad. Though they tend to be overly harsh on movies, I more often than not agree with their points, and this was no exception.
Future Foundation
Member
There was some, yes.
Major Gripex
Member
Of all the reviews, I'm closer to Angry Joe. He hated BvS AND the extended Edition but loved SS. Definitely worth checking out.
Non-Spolier Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26vgMGS3INA
Spoiler Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIRHc96uv60
The movie is definitely enjoyable in my opinion. I can understand some of the complaints with the the editing but what I don't understand are the complaints about the plot. This movie was never meant to be a world-building or a genre defining movie. The marketing built up a fun, visually appealing action movie and that is what we got. How is this movie having an average plot which still helps hold everything together any worse than what is featured in half the Marvel films?
Yea that's one thing I don't get. I'll be the first to admit the plot was super basic and simple. But I don't hold that against the movie. Everything was coherent and made sense. Sure a better movie could have been made, but I always billed the movie as a fun, enjoyable experience and that's what I got.
You need someone that actually knows these characters and their universe at a fundamental level to develop a coherent shared universe, and also to stop these directors from putting their 'vision' on these beloved franchises.
I'm not sure if he'll save the DCEU, but at least they got a comicbook guy in charge, basically what they needed to do since the very beginning.
People putting "their vision" on these characters is the only reason they've endured for over 70 years.
BadAss2961
Member
Sounds like Suicide Squad. It's the personalities and chaos that ensues that usually makes it click.
If nothing else, I'm sure Synder is glad he's around to be the new fall guy.
Agreed.
BadAss2961
Member
SJRB
Gold Member
There's no way there are still people out there having a problem with Affleck as Bruce/Batman, right?
Discotheque
Banned
yeah. basically there would be no batman year one/tdkr, or the burton flicks or the nolan trilogy or singer x-mens if this wasn't allowed.
the proper course correction for this universe is also one of the most boring ones. i have a feeling they're going to inch more towards the saturday morning cartoon-like mcu films. all the criticisms that have been levied at suicide squad seem fit for one of the lower-tier marvel ones honestly (bad villain, uninspired plot etc.) it would be a far more successful strategy for them to chase that timm-verse tone and would gain a very loyal family fanbase as well. but god damn that's something that sounds good until you see it in action, i can already imagine how boring it would all play out.
mehhh these films are only going to feel more and more episodic now that Snyder got WB so shook. I have a feeling that BvS was about as different a film you'll get from DCEU in the next 4 or 5 years (whenever Batman comes, that property prolly has a "do whatever the hell you want" pass thanks to Nolan and now Affleck signing on to do it...i hope)
edit: not that there's anything wrong with a family friendly tone. but it peaked so damn early with Spiderman 2. everything else since has really failed to look like more than just a decent time at the theaters. that was just a great rom-com/dramedy whatever with spiderman as the lead character.
maybe people should be looking at why that worked so well imo. i'd love to see another comic movie in that vein.
BadAss2961
Member
Well is it that the plot is just basic, or is it dull? Because there's nothing wrong with a super simple and basic plot... Some of the best movies are the most simple ones. Dredd being a good example for the genre.
Yep, going towards a safe, bland and unoffensive route like Marvel. All the cinematic characters lack any of the quirk, idiosyncrasies or potential controversial edges that some of the comic book counterparts showcased at some point or another (flashback to Favreau wanting to explore Tony's alcoholism only to be told "NO"). It's all simply diluted to be as easily digestible as possible.
The problem is that the times these characters are at their most interesting is when creators challenge the characters. I love a fun comic book story arc as much as the next guy, but Tom King's Batman is only ever going to be a footnote in comparison to Frank Millers or Grant Morrison's.
BvS is one of the few movies to actually challenge the concepts of the characters in a way that I don't think anyone has since Ang Lee's Hulk. Unfortunately this is also what leads to works that don't appeal to fanboys who seem to care more about an idealized character rather than anything else.
Definity, the parts of the film that were edited by committee are somewhat obvious but it isn't as if the plot varies greatly because of it. Certainly not in the same way BvS plot is solidifies in the Ultimate Edition. What has been cut from Suicide Squad probably doesn't take or add anything to the movie unless it is something very jarring like Joker turning out to be the main villain who is pulling the strings.
It is. The guy has improved his craft a lot. By looking at BvS, you can't really tell he also directed something like Dawn of the Dead or 300.
If anything, Spider-Man 2 is the film WB should be looking at. A film that is a crowd pleaser, but also incredibly well put together and has a strong directorial voice present throughout the whole thing. I don't think even Marvel Studios has replicated what made that film special. The closest they got was the TFA and maybe The Avengers.
BadAss2961
Member
Problem is a lot of fanboys care more about acceptance than whatever's happening on screen. RT sets the tone and conversation for every movie, regardless of interpretation.
Some would say that's just salt coming from me, but it's reality.
Yeah, Spider-man 2 is such a great comic book movie that is fun, entertaining, all of that, but doesn't feel like a "Marvel movie". WB could do well to learn from that.
TFA is definitely one of the few Marvel films to actually capture the comic book adventure feel and element. It doesn't apologize for what it is, is sincere and doesn't have this weird and cynical "haha, don't worry, we won't get too nerdy, so its okay for you to like this" tone that many of marvels other movies have.
I mean let's not talk like that yet until we've seen Wonder Woman. If there's anyone who can balance optimism and hope with grit and darkness it's Johns. And that's honestly what DC needs right now. Someone who know what direction is appropriate for each particular character.
Also, I think it's too early for Tom King Batman written off.
The first half of TFA is so strong and fun and it felt like it was on its way to really being great. But everything after the POW rescue is so rote and unmemorable.
A friend of mine put it best when he said that it feels like the movie should end once the rescue happens, but then it has to keep going so it just hits its beats then puts Cap on ice to get ready for Avengers.
Because with comicbook movies, a movie can no longer just be a movie, it has to be a revelation. This is something MCU-gaf has collectively been groaning over for awhile now. It's a product of people taking this shit way too personally.
That's a really apt way to put it. The best part of the third act are the bits in the suicide bombers while Cap is trying to get back to the ship. BZZZZT.
The movie never regains its footing completely though after they catch Zola.
BadAss2961
Member
Well yeah... The overall growth in craft shows in BvS, but the movie is also very enjoyable. Increasingly so the more I watch it. It feels like the culmination his career was building towards, but that he got cheated out of getting credit for.
Considering it his best work is a pretty big deal to me as a fan of everything i've seen from him, including Sucker Punch.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I agree. Fans want to be on the "winning" side so that they don't look foolish picking "bad" movies. It's all about acceptance and trying to be "cool"
Anyway....
Just came back from the theater , glad I went as squad was a very enjoyable, fun movie.
It has a couple of issues, the villain being one of them. Although I feel Waller was the true villain 😄
And while I didn't much care for the villain, I very much cared about the whole squad.
Will smith,Margot Robbie and Viola Davis really knocked it out of the park specially. Boomerang was funny as was croc. And I thought they did a good job getting me to care for Diablo even if I had not heard of him before.
I REALLY want to see what else they will do with this joker, found him interesting, more comic booky than previous versions.
I didn't really see the editing problems that some were going on about. I loved BvS and I know that had editing problems but I don't see it here. The story was clear from beginning to end. It was a simple story, which is what a movie about task force X should be like.
But it still managed to have very genuine character moments. It was a good balance.
I had wished that towards the end they didn't have to make it a save the world thing. It didn't need that.
This is a solid, fun summer action movie. I think an uninteresting villain holds it back.
I really hope will smith Margot and viola Davis come back.
I shouldn't bring it up but I feel I must once again ask what it is that critics see, or if they feel they must extra harsh on these movies. worst movie this year this or horribly convoluted, badly edited, or that it's not fun and dour and dark. It couldn't be further from the truth. I absolutely recommend going to see the movie at least once.
It really does suck, but I think you might be right.
I feel the same way. BvS has its grip on me like no other movie in a long time. Part of that is because I never expected BvS to be the kind of movie it ended up being...I went in thinking the movie was going to be like an episode of Justice League but what I got was nearer to a meditation on the ideas of myths and heroes. BvS gets better for me as time goes on and I put it above Watchmen.
And Snyder got the George Lucas treatment after all that work. It's a bummer.
I dunno, I feel that every time the "what should DC do" debate comes up, the discussion isn't very honest because everyone wants to frame the situation around what they personally feel without being objective about the purpose of the business.
Okay, let's say it's true that fans prefer an idealized version of their superheroes rather than a more provocative exploration of psyche. This isn't a problem. It's just entertainment, people are allowed to like what they like. Knowing this, a studio spending [x] amount of money into a project is investing in the problem with commercial aim. So if they're spending more money than they should to make a movie most fans don't want to see, whose fault is that?
I love Ang Lee's Hulk. I'm glad it was made. But if I were the one making the decisions, and I took my job seriously, I would not give that movie the budget it had. But as a movie buff, I am glad someone made the bad business decision of allowing the film to be made. I feel the same way about BvS, but it is a far inferior film to that.
Now let's address the other claim, that "fanboys" (let's face it, everyone who posts in this thread is a fanboy, pot/kettle etc) care more about acceptance than what is on screen. I call bullshit on that. I would say that Dead is more spot on than BadAssDCBitterFan45324. Trying to blame the audience for "not getting it" is hilarious. Maybe people just don't want to see the ideas Snyder presents? Isn't that more obvious? If the movies are exactly what fans want to see, but critics are extra harsh on them, you wouldn't see the sort of reception these films got. In general people going to watch superheroes from comics punching bad guys don't want to see a depressing and oppressive film that tries to mirror the real world too much, or to remind us too much of the flaws of humanity or individuals. That's not to say such films have no place, but I honestly find it hard to justify their place as 200 million dollar blockbusters.
Okay, let's say it's true that fans prefer an idealized version of their superheroes rather than a more provocative exploration of psyche. This isn't a problem. It's just entertainment, people are allowed to like what they like. Knowing this, a studio spending [x] amount of money into a project is investing in the problem with commercial aim. So if they're spending more money than they should to make a movie most fans don't want to see, whose fault is that?
I love Ang Lee's Hulk. I'm glad it was made. But if I were the one making the decisions, and I took my job seriously, I would not give that movie the budget it had. But as a movie buff, I am glad someone made the bad business decision of allowing the film to be made. I feel the same way about BvS, but it is a far inferior film to that.
Now let's address the other claim, that "fanboys" (let's face it, everyone who posts in this thread is a fanboy, pot/kettle etc) care more about acceptance than what is on screen. I call bullshit on that. I would say that Dead is more spot on than BadAssDCBitterFan45324. Trying to blame the audience for "not getting it" is hilarious. Maybe people just don't want to see the ideas Snyder presents? Isn't that more obvious? If the movies are exactly what fans want to see, but critics are extra harsh on them, you wouldn't see the sort of reception these films got. In general people going to watch superheroes from comics punching bad guys don't want to see a depressing and oppressive film that tries to mirror the real world too much, or to remind us too much of the flaws of humanity or individuals. That's not to say such films have no place, but I honestly find it hard to justify their place as 200 million dollar blockbusters.
You are spot on.
From a business viewpoint theres no way to argue that Snyder was never the one to pin opening a cinematic universe on, his sensibilites just aren't a good fit for commercialism. He's always been divisive since literally day one.
On the other hand, from a personal viewpoint I really don't care lol. Ultimately the way I see it, blockbuster films with a personal stake in them will be rarer and rarer I feel and I don't want that to be the case. But it is what it is.
Ideally I would love DC to be able to marry a cinematic universe to this kind of more introspective movie, but that's not going to happen. I'll probably be more forgiven of a homogenized DCEU than I would Marvel simply because the characters are closer to me, but I suppose its still too early to see if it goes that way.
Discotheque
Banned
No doubt. Gimme a million mann movies funded by China and Saudi Arabia or whatever. I don't give a fuuuuu that blackhat got like 10 percent on RT I loved it. Top 5 movie of last year. And while BvS was clunky and im not exactly a snyder fan I walked away from that more impressed by certain elements in there than many other recent films in the genre.
A lot of bad investments have proven to be more enjoyable to me than the surefire hits as of late. Technically mad max was a bad investment as well for a blockbuster movie.
Duckroll's post is spot on. But I got no financial stake in this. Just entertain me.
And yeah at the end of the day I may be a hypocrite and end up enjoying a formulaic dcu more than the mcu because of the characters involved. But I'm not all that excited about the prospect of it either tbh.
Yeah, as a movie fan I really don't give a FUCK who is making the decisions to give people like Ang Lee and Snyder the keys to the superhero gates to make crazy films that most people don't seem to want. I love seeing something different especially if there's an honest intent behind it. BvS is heavily flawed because Snyder just isn't that good at tackling these themes, but Terrio wrote the FUCK out of that dialogue. <3
Also, this is why I'm so fucking disappointed with Suicide Squad. It's fucking -nothing-. It wants to try to emulate the "dark" tone people associate with DC movies now, but it has no central theme, no purpose, it's just a fucking mess. >_<
Also, this is why I'm so fucking disappointed with Suicide Squad. It's fucking -nothing-. It wants to try to emulate the "dark" tone people associate with DC movies now, but it has no central theme, no purpose, it's just a fucking mess. >_<
Agreed about Suicide Squad ^^^ Though it made me salivate at the prospect of a grimy Mob boss Joker movie...that probably will never happen ;_;
Also that Lone Ranger bruh
johnnydrama
Banned
I got all of them right. http://www.sporcle.com/games/Nietos/follow-that-line-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice
I do wonder why Mad Max underperformed. I loved it and it's being touted as one of the greatest action movie of all time. But while I was in the theatre, someone in the audience asked everyone else what was going on. That's when I found out I was probably the only one in the following what was going on.
Major Gripex
Member
Meninist will have you believe that they successfully boycotted the movie. In actuality, Pitch Perfect happened. The competition ate up the audience.
Mad Max is not a very attractive franchise. It's a fantastic action movie but it takes more than that to get asses in seats. Being tight and clean is something recognized by critics and those who appreciate that but it means nothing to people who aren't interested in the premise to begin with.
Good character writing and casting, competent action direction, and producers who care about the source material at least a little bit beyond what they can mine for profit. That's what they should do.
I've stated it many times on this forum - I think where the Marvel Studios films excel is the characters, both in writing and casting. You can plug them into virtually any decent action movie script and they'll just work. After that, they can massage any kind of thematic subversion into the greater mythology they want, so long as they're subtle about it. Don't smash people over the head with speeches about gods and demons and truth and goodness and redemption and blah blah blah - the audience will get all that through the characters' actions regardless.
They don't need to be jokefests. They don't need to license a bunch of pop songs. They don't need to be 140 minutes long. They don't all need glowing MacGuffins and giant falling objects and flailing CG monsters. But if they're gonna put the characters' names in the fucking title, they need to start by getting the characters right.
Atomic Odin
Member
It's one thing to be entitled about what kind of content you're receiving. If you want something that entertains you and you don't care whether or not it entertains the masses then go nuts, right? Of course, that has its limitations too, and it's not healthy for fans to try to hold companies accountable for deviations from their own meticulously crafted vision. It's very strange though when fans try to hold other consumers accountable to their personal vision. It's not enough that you enjoyed something, others have to agree or something is wrong with them. All logic flies out the window at that point. An easy litmus test for this immature reaction is whether or not the response in question underhandedly praises oneself at the expense of those who disagree. It's like seeing someone become a living Principal Skinner meme.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I just want them to make technically good movies. That means I want good editing, good pacing, nice shots and so on. It doesn't have to be the most complcated shit with 100 subplots.
It's not that hard. Not with the talent WB is working with.
It's not that hard. Not with the talent WB is working with.
I know a guy at work who refuses to see BvS because Ben Affleck is Batman, but that's the only one I've run into in real life.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Fury Road is more of arty action film. I can see why the masses didn't take to it. The whole series was never a mega hit.
Yep. Except for ThunderDome. That was as mainstream as you can get for the series.
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